Clare GAA discussion thread

Sterling Archer

BloodyBill wrote: »

Theres been plenty of Clare Cup games played and I'm sure theres been a few performers. It would certainly spice up the panel. Any injury to O Donnell, Conlon, McInerney or Kelly and its curtains.
I agree wholeheartedly that there needs to be an outside manager brought in. Just to have a new set of eyes on the whole system. I'd go for someone like Gary Kirby or the Galway minor manager ...cant think of his name..

And to remove the favoritism that exists

Sterling Archer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbJ4RWXSCOQ

Stationmaster

Clareman wrote: »

How are you going to unearth other players when the club championship isn't played during the summer?

There's an exceptional gifted under-age group of players coming through, don't be surprised if Davy "decides" to take a break from inter-county management but get a "Development Officer" gig to bring them through.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we are way too reliant on the team of the 90s for management, the current management for all their faults at least are a break from that team, if there is to be a change in management I think we have to go outside of the county, Len Gaynor is the last non-Clare person in charge and he finished up in 1994.

Our record since 1994 isn't too bad compared to what went on pre 94 so I don't think an outside manager is the solution.

Clareman

Stationmaster wrote: »

Our record since 1994 isn't too bad compared to what went on pre 94 so I don't think an outside manager is the solution.

It could be argued that 95 wouldn't have started without an outside person to get it going, Len Gaynor got us to 2 Munster Finals, Loughnane got us over the hump.

Stationmaster

Clareman wrote: »

It could be argued that 95 wouldn't have started without an outside person to get it going, Len Gaynor got us to 2 Munster Finals, Loughnane got us over the hump.

It would be a weak argument.

We're not a county that's blessed with 100 hurlers of inter county standard. To be honest, I don't know of any club player that stands out at the moment who hasn't got a run at some stage.

Clareman

Stationmaster wrote: »

It would be a weak argument.

We're not a county that's blessed with 100 hurlers of inter county standard. To be honest, I don't know of any club player that stands out at the moment who hasn't got a run at some stage.

The team of the 90s was "based" on the minor team of the late 80s, Len Gaynor brought that team through to senior, I don't think he would have been able to get them a Munster title but I also don't think Loughnane wouldn't have been able to bring a bunch of minors through either.

Looking at the current panel, there are very few 22-25 year olds on it, almost all the team are 25-26 with John Conlon being the only 1 in his 30s, Podge is 1 of the oldest on the panel. Of the subs, Shanagher is 22, he's probably the only 1 with a realistic chance of starting but SoD will start before him against Waterford probably.

I'm not saying get rid of the core of the team, but you need to refresh the team every year with a couple of players or else once those players finish together you'll have nothing to replace them with.

funnyname

We're also battling with the incompetent of our administrators as they didn't stand up and fight for the schedule of games to be changed once it was known we'd have 3 games over a 14 day period.

Leinster put in place a great schedule whereby no team plays more than two weekends in a row. We have the potential to be severely handicapped by it.

Clareman

funnyname wrote: »

We're also battling with the incompetent of our administrators as they didn't stand up and fight for the schedule of games to be changed once it was known we'd have 3 games over a 14 day period.

Leinster put in place a great schedule whereby no team plays more than two weekends in a row. We have the potential to be severely handicapped by it.

Sure our administrators are more interested in closing grounds in response to tweets rather than dealing with actual issue

BloodyBill

Stationmaster wrote: »

It would be a weak argument.

We're not a county that's blessed with 100 hurlers of inter county standard. To be honest, I don't know of any club player that stands out at the moment who hasn't got a run at some stage.

I think Len Gaynor was extremely important and instilled a confidence in Clare that wasnt there before. Loughnane tapped into it and his innate knowledge of the Clare psyche pushed them on. The problem in Clare is numbers but also the insular outlook of those in charge. They promote insiders. Every county benefits from outside views.. Look what Kinnerk did. I'd offer him the Clare job next. He might not take it as I dont think JP McManus will be outbid but we could certainly try.
The common comment in Clare is we know every player who's any good. Theres no way we are missing a Seamus Harnedy type. But I bet you theres an intermediate hurler or senior B hurler who's worth his place on the panel. There has to be a pathway for guys to come through the backdoor.

windy shepard henderson

outside manager ...who??? tj ryan ......derrick mcgrath ....:rolleyes: there are no outside managers to be got , in fairness we have loads of guys lining up for the job if this was gerry and donal's last year

louis mulqueens record is the best in the county better then fitz , has turned liam mellows into a serious team up in galway from nowhere

antony daly is still one of the most sought after managers in the country and is waiting for this post to come up again

alan cunningham has been as pivotal as paul kinnerk to the limerick set up over the last few years , the work himself and ollie baker done up in offaly was serious too,

you have loads of guys ,sitting on there hands also like baker , john minogue peter casey, cyril lyons , gus o'brien (also with limerick at the moment ) alan dunne in flannans sparrow o'loughlin is still doing great work out side the county at club level, that would make serious backroom staff to any management side in the country the problem is we dont utilize these guys enough


if sixmilebridge do happen to win a county championship , which i believe they will given how strong they are at the moment then fitz is back in the running as front runner really to be fair , even he would be a better option then whats available out side the county at the moment

Donald Trumped

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

outside manager ...who??? tj ryan ......derrick mcgrath ....:rolleyes: there are no outside managers to be got , in fairness we have loads of guys lining up for the job if this was gerry and donal's last year

louis mulqueens record is the best in the county better then fitz , has turned liam mellows into a serious team up in galway from nowhere

antony daly is still one of the most sought after managers in the country and is waiting for this post to come up again

alan cunningham has been as pivotal as paul kinnerk to the limerick set up over the last few years , the work himself and ollie baker done up in offaly was serious too,

you have loads of guys ,sitting on there hands also like baker , john minogue peter casey, cyril lyons , gus o'brien (also with limerick at the moment ) alan dunne in flannans sparrow o'loughlin is still doing great work out side the county at club level, that would make serious backroom staff to any management side in the country the problem is we dont utilize these guys enough


if sixmilebridge do happen to win a county championship , which i believe they will given how strong they are at the moment then fitz is back in the running as front runner really to be fair , even he would be a better option then whats available out side the county at the moment

I agree that there is a load of options out there when Donal and Gerry do leave their roles come championship time. But even though I despise the Fitz's so much, It really will be Davy Fitz for 2020 and beyond.

What about Jamesie O'Connor as a coach. What a damning indictment that he is not involved in Clare in any capacity, outside of his work in St Flannans. Always speaks so well in his role with Sky Sports and a highly intelligent guy to boot. As you said Windy, most of our good coaches are working outside the county, really bad form on behalf of Pat Fitz and co to allow this exodus to happen.

If we are talking about potential candidates for hurling gigs, what about the football management for 2020 when Colm Collins leaves. I would love to see Pat O'Shea take over as he that innovative football coach that the players would love to work under. If we are looking inside the county, then Dermot Coughlan and Aidan "Horse" Moloney would be strong contenders.

BloodyBill

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

outside manager ...who??? tj ryan ......derrick mcgrath ....:rolleyes: there are no outside managers to be got , in fairness we have loads of guys lining up for the job if this was gerry and donal's last year

louis mulqueens record is the best in the county better then fitz , has turned liam mellows into a serious team up in galway from nowhere

antony daly is still one of the most sought after managers in the country and is waiting for this post to come up again

alan cunningham has been as pivotal as paul kinnerk to the limerick set up over the last few years , the work himself and ollie baker done up in offaly was serious too,

you have loads of guys ,sitting on there hands also like baker , john minogue peter casey, cyril lyons , gus o'brien (also with limerick at the moment ) alan dunne in flannans sparrow o'loughlin is still doing great work out side the county at club level, that would make serious backroom staff to any management side in the country the problem is we dont utilize these guys enough


if sixmilebridge do happen to win a county championship , which i believe they will given how strong they are at the moment then fitz is back in the running as front runner really to be fair , even he would be a better option then whats available out side the county at the moment

Theres no great confidence in Sixmilebridge at the moment. They realise they've a decent squad but the underage is mixed and their results in Munster have left a bitter taste in the mouth for many Sixmilebridge folk . The loss to Na Piarsaigh in O' Garney Park a few years ago was shocking...9 points up. But yeah they probably are capable of winning Clare again but would they put it up to Patrickswell or Na Piarsaigh or Ballygunnar...? Not a hope and that's how Sixmilebridge measure themselves.
I'd give Sparrow a run with Kinnerk but they don't have the financial clout to match Limericks backroom.

windy shepard henderson

BloodyBill wrote: »

Theres no great confidence in Sixmilebridge at the moment. They realise they've a decent squad but the underage is mixed and their results in Munster have left a bitter taste in the mouth for many Sixmilebridge folk . The loss to Na Piarsaigh in O' Garney Park a few years ago was shocking...9 points up. But yeah they probably are capable of winning Clare again but would they put it up to Patrickswell or Na Piarsaigh or Ballygunnar...? Not a hope and that's how Sixmilebridge measure themselves.
I'd give Sparrow a run with Kinnerk but they don't have the financial clout to match Limericks backroom.

i think they (sixmilebridge) had to bite the bullet a bit by given it to fitz , they really need someone to take them to the next level in munster and he was probably the best candidate with his name in the hat

i know a number of key players are pushing on a bit but they have serious depth , every year they are pushing for the intermediate championship with there second team , and 2/3rds of the way through the league and there 2nd team are for a place in 1B , they lost narrowly enough last year to doora/barefields first team in the division 2 final

i would give them 5 years at best at the moment for them to achieve what they want in munster after that there current squad will be pretty much disbanded , and not a huge amount coming through at the present ,

BloodyBill

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i think they (sixmilebridge) had to bite the bullet a bit by given it to fitz , they really need someone to take them to the next level in munster and he was probably the best candidate with his name in the hat

i know a number of key players are pushing on a bit but they have serious depth , every year they are pushing for the intermediate championship with there second team , and 2/3rds of the way through the league and there 2nd team are for a place in 1B , they lost narrowly enough last year to doora/barefields first team in the division 2 final

i would give them 5 years at best at the moment for them to achieve what they want in munster after that there current squad will be pretty much disbanded , and not a huge amount coming through at the present ,

It's a real eye opener to see how little is coming through underage recently. Considering the population is rising massively year on year and the coaching levels are still very good. From the huge numbers youd expect more talent. But even for a club like Sixmilebridge it must come in cycles.
The funny thing is Sixmilebridge always had outsiders that offered something different to the team. I'm thinking Noel Early from the great 95-96 team. They have Malone now . I dont even know what part of Clare he is from.. but they could do with 1 or 2 more. Theres a lack of pace in the squad aswell. But like you said theres huge numbers with Intermediate and Junior teams . The fact is I could name an alternative Sixmilebridge senior team that would give the first a serious game.
Finally the top brass in Sixmilebridge is the fiefdom of one man similar to Clare and that turns many many people off.

sasol

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i think they (sixmilebridge) had to bite the bullet a bit by given it to fitz , they really need someone to take them to the next level in munster and he was probably the best candidate with his name in the hat
QUOTE]

No, they didn't. Nobody else wanted the job.

To even suggest that Fitz should be given the Clare job again is boarding on obscene. Some people have very short memories

Howitzer the 5th

sasol wrote: »

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i think they (sixmilebridge) had to bite the bullet a bit by given it to fitz , they really need someone to take them to the next level in munster and he was probably the best candidate with his name in the hat
QUOTE]

No, they didn't. Nobody else wanted the job.

To even suggest that Fitz should be given the Clare job again is boarding on obscene. Some people have very short memories

It is absolutely obscene. Irrefutably so. You're absolutely right. It is an affront to every single Clare man, woman and child who profess even the very tiniest fragment of faith and love in the great banner county that he would be remotely EVER considered as Clare manager again. Clare took four years to rid themselves of the fallout from his so-called management. Delegates and all with the best interests of Clare hurling and G.A.A at heart must NEVER let this happen again.

Donald Trumped

Howitzer the 5th wrote: »

sasol wrote: »

It is absolutely obscene. Irrefutably so. You're absolutely right. It is an affront to every single Clare man, woman and child who profess even the very tiniest fragment of faith and love in the great banner county that he would be remotely EVER considered as Clare manager again. Clare took four years to rid themselves of the fallout from his so-called management. Delegates and all with the best interests of Clare hurling and G.A.A at heart must NEVER let this happen again.

Those that defend DF would argue that he brought us an All-Ireland and a league title during that reign. Davy 2.0 is coming to the Banner county in 2020. I can guarantee that there will be no unrest come the night of his re-appointment, with the possible exception of Solan from Whitegate, a longtime critic of the Fitz's. Knowing the man that Pat Fitz is, he'll threaten clubs that don't support this motion with some withdrawal of funds for new lights or new pitches, stands etc.

You play a dangerous game if you cross the red line against what many would believe is Kim Jong Un/Putin in disguise. Pat Fitz is a despicable person who like most politicians or public representatives, puts his own selfish interests ahead of the best interests of society. In this case its Clare GAA that has been neglected for far too long under his reign as CCB secretary. The row that lead to the subsequent retirement of Rory Hickey as a referee is further proof of the consequences of those who don't tow the Fitz line.

I really have lost so much interest in Clare GAA and I'm deeply concerned about the future. When you look at the way things are changing in Cork with Kevin O'Donovan as that new innovative, modern and forward thinking county secretary that the rebel county has been craving for decades. But here in Clare, its a case of the old guard with any change in position in the board hierarchy, just a case of changing the deck chairs and moving a board member to another role in the executive that has well past its sell by date.

The biggest indictment of the clubs is the failure of the delegates, to lead from the front and demanding change from the top. Every year they fail to do this, they prolong the inner circle of Pat Fitz, Joe Cooney, PJ McGuane and co. stay in there big comfy jobs and their grand easy salaries for basically until their retirement age at least.

By continuing to accept the status quo, club delegates in-actions threaten to destroy GAA in the county and lead to an alienation of people who care for hurling and football in Clare. A start to address this imbalance, would be for all clubs to stand united against DF's return to the Clare senior hurling manager in 2020. But I would not get too upbeat on that united front from happening any time soon. Sad times indeed and as regards to major change in the way Clare GAA is being run, there is no indication to suggest that this will happen any time for the foreseeable future. The future looks bleak.

windy shepard henderson

sasol wrote: »

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i think they (sixmilebridge) had to bite the bullet a bit by given it to fitz , they really need someone to take them to the next level in munster and he was probably the best candidate with his name in the hat
QUOTE]

No, they didn't. Nobody else wanted the job.

To even suggest that Fitz should be given the Clare job again is boarding on obscene. Some people have very short memories

how do you stop it from happening again, county board is full of yes men , bruiser getting the minor job then fitz getting the sixmilebridge gig in a short space of time alone with a few interviews by fitz saying he had unfinished business in clare while still wexford boss set huge alarm bells ringing ,

all that came out together in a short space of time either side of christmas , rumors are rampant around the county that he has his sights on this job over the next 5 or 6 years which is expect to coincide with a good young crop of young hurlers making there way through the development squads at the moment

are you telling me 30 out of say 50 clubs will vote against him if he ran again , not if daddy is still at the wheel

Clareman

Fitz has the job next year, it's a known fact around the place that he's gotten the gig regardless of this years performance. Kilmaley's new ground has been closed because of "Health & Safety", nothing to do with Conor Clancy tweeting about certain people.

Our county board is the most corrupt organisation going and that's not going to change any time soon no matter what we want to happen.

Donald Trumped

Clareman wrote: »

Fitz has the job next year, it's a known fact around the place that he's gotten the gig regardless of this years performance. Kilmaley's new ground has been closed because of "Health & Safety", nothing to do with Conor Clancy tweeting about certain people.

Our county board is the most corrupt organisation going and that's not going to change any time soon no matter what we want to happen.

In the midst of this chaos, one must feel for the Clare players who have done nothing to deserve more years of overtraining, flogging, shouting and roaring at them, bad man-management and a lack of respect to referees and the media.

Going back to 2014 and that incident between DF and Clare Champion journalist Peter O'Connell post-Wexford match in the Park, was a terrible act on behalf of DF. Added to threatening and humiliating certain players in front of the team in early 2015, for a "breach of the DF discipline book". Plus the shocking treatment of Colin Ryan in his final days in his 1st stint as Clare manager. Awful things to do and to be honest, I don't think he shown the remorse for those actions, that makes him worthy of him returning as manager in the Banner County next year.

Yet the yes men in the county board want to tear up the history books and pretend as if there's nothing to see here or in this case look back on, despite all of his failings, some of which I have explained in the above, in particular the more high profile ones anyways. It was truly remarkable and showed the immense character of the Clare team (I won't give DF an ounce of credit for this) that they could win an All-Ireland and league title between 2013 and 2016. In my mind if Paul Kinnerk was not around, Davy's reign as Clare hurling boss would have been an catastrophic disaster.

I can guarantee you one thing. Kinnerk and DF are no longer friends. They are not even on speaking terms, so its very much wishful thinking to suggest that Paul will return to Clare in any capacity, let alone joining alliances with DF.

This DF reunion with Clare in 2020 and beyond is destined to fail. Many players on this year's panel will not return in any capacity that sees DF back at the helm. Interest in the Clare hurling team will plummet. Don't forget the dreaded "sweeper" method that DF continues to promote in spite of its clear negatives. It's so outdated.

Added to his agendas against certain people, be prepared for a minimum of 3 years of DF antics and mayhem both on and off the field. It may be worthy of Hollywood material but on the pitch, it will be a complete disaster from day one.

Some may think that I'm a little over critical about DF, to whom to be fair has done great things in relation to charity and that has to be respected too. But that generosity and humility that he shows at times off the pitch, is not replicated when he wears the banisteoir bib. For whatever reason he turns on people very easily which makes him such a character of hate for many, not helped by his father, who has such a poor relationship with so many people that cross swords with him.

As you say Clareman, the CCB is without doubt one of the most corrupt organisations that's out there in the country at present. It makes Frank Murphy act like the Pope, when you compare to our current county secretary. He should be ashamed for his behavior when you consider the role he has. The whole lot of them in the county board have let Clare GAA down for far too long. But without any dissenting voices from the clubs and delegates representing them at county board meetings, then the status quo will remain.

I for one continue to hope for the best for Clare GAA. But as time goes on, so too does my faith in the game take a nosedive. The future will continue to get bleaker by the day for GAA in the county, as long as the current executive stay in situ.

Lets hope that we have a Sunday Times v John Delaney moment, Clare GAA style, and some brave young journalist will look into the affairs into the running of the county board here in Clare. It looks like that's the only hope for real change and accountability which is so desperately missing not just in Clare GAA, but throughout Ireland in general. As the old saying goes, its the hope however small that maybe, that kills you.

Clareman

No-one is getting near the Tsar, I think Conor Clancy has the join most inter-county medals of a Clare player and he tweeted about a disgraceful scene at an inter-county challenge, what happens next? Kilmaley's new ground is deemed unsuitable for matches because of "health and safety", other clubs will see this and won't say anything about anything because they'll be worried about protecting their own little kingdom.

Fitz*

That really is a horrible state of affairs to be in with closing their ground. Have to feel sorry for the club.

caddy16

Clareman wrote: »

No-one is getting near the Tsar, I think Conor Clancy has the join most inter-county medals of a Clare player and he tweeted about a disgraceful scene at an inter-county challenge, what happens next? Kilmaley's new ground is deemed unsuitable for matches because of "health and safety", other clubs will see this and won't say anything about anything because they'll be worried about protecting their own little kingdom.

This is appalling if true which I have no doubt it is. When will clubs say enough is enough?

windy shepard henderson

Clareman wrote: »

Fitz has the job next year, it's a known fact around the place that he's gotten the gig regardless of this years performance. Kilmaley's new ground has been closed because of "Health & Safety", nothing to do with Conor Clancy tweeting about certain people.

Our county board is the most corrupt organisation going and that's not going to change any time soon no matter what we want to happen.

it wont be next year , it will be in the next few years yes , but a few players have to reach the end of there careers yet before he will be back

Figerty

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

it wont be next year , it will be in the next few years yes , but a few players have to reach the end of there careers yet before he will be back

Daly and Brian Lohan should be well ahead of him in the queue.
And there may be a few more as well.

sasol

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

sasol wrote: »

how do you stop it from happening again, county board is full of yes men , bruiser getting the minor job then fitz getting the sixmilebridge gig in a short space of time alone with a few interviews by fitz saying he had unfinished business in clare while still wexford boss set huge alarm bells ringing ,

all that came out together in a short space of time either side of christmas , rumors are rampant around the county that he has his sights on this job over the next 5 or 6 years which is expect to coincide with a good young crop of young hurlers making there way through the development squads at the moment

are you telling me 30 out of say 50 clubs will vote against him if he ran again , not if daddy is still at the wheel

If the clubs don’t take a stand then Clare are a county of sheep.

You would expect people like Brian Lohan, Jamsie o Connor, Conor Clancy et al to take a stand and publicly voice their opinions.

Peter o Connell needs to stand up and be counted.

Anthony Daly needs to express his interest in the job.

There are plenty of ways to disrupt the return, if the appetite is there. And if the appetite is not there, then god help Clare hurling

Clareman

Why does it have to be the players of the 90s? Why does it have to be those 3?

The problem with Clare is Pat Fitz, pure and simple, but there's no-one either willing or with the backing to replace him

sasol

Because those are the players who have already spoken against him

Clareman

sasol wrote: »

Because those are the players who have already spoken against him

Exactly, they are the players, well former players, until a few administrators start to try to oust him nothing will happen.

sasol

Clareman wrote: »

Exactly, they are the players, well former players, until a few administrators start to try to oust him nothing will happen.

True, but if ex-players like those publicly oppose the return, then others may follow suit. If the return is meekly allowed , without opposition like 2012, then god help us