Exam Results - Delayed (Mod Warning: Post #383 & #420)

Sully

Folks,
Just in case you have not been made aware, failed to see posters/flyers/posts here or elsewhere on the matter..

WITSU have organised a rally for students to protest against the delay in receiving our exam results and the delay of further examinations due to the ongoing dispute with WIT and the TUI. The protest is as follows:-

Date: Wednesday, February 3rd.
Venue: Cork Road Campus, Library Plaza (outside main library door)
Time: 12pm.

Date: Wednesday, February 3rd.
Venue: College St Campus (Front Car Park)
Time: 2pm.

jonsey

purplestain wrote: »

This is not an assumption, this my opinion and I'm entitled to it, and a vote of 84% to take this type of action can't be wrong. Let me rephrase: In my opinion, 84% of the lecturers who are in the TUI don't care about the students, they care about their pay cheque.

Well that's very different to what you said in your originla post. And using the word "FACT!" at the end of your statement does not suggest that it's merely your opinion.

jonsey

Sully wrote: »

Well spotted - poor phrasing on my part, ill edit the post. The agreement that was in place could be debated in terms of whether it was right or wrong. Some would say they should have never been paid that sum, others would say they should. Right now, the college wants to save (apparently) money by cutting out extra payments - this being one.

I think you will find pretty much all my posts have been fairly accurate - expect mistakes and tell me if I slip up. We ain't all as perfect as you :P

I never claimed to be perfect! Most of your other posts are accurate but the thing is that a lot of people don't bother to do research on this area (like you and I and a few others on here) and will rely on what people like you say. They will come away from this with false conclusions like:

Lecturers want more money
Lecturers get €25 per script and they can do four an hour
A lot of lecturers are on over €100,000 a year.

I know that you are aware that all of those are incorrect but some people are looking for sensational "facts" and will then spread them around the place.

Whether they should have been paid that amount in the first place is a matter of debate alright. I was under the impression that they were willing to negotiate on the amount but the college wouldn't budge and that's why we are in the dispute. I know your use of the word "more" was more through carelessness than malice but even to say that lecturers aren't willing to take less money (as most people here think) does not seem true to me. I heard that it's just a matter of how much less they are willing to take but the management wouldn't budge on the 50%.

Sully

jonsey wrote: »

I never claimed to be perfect! Most of your other posts are accurate but the thing is that a lot of people don't bother to do research on this area (like you and I and a few others on here) and will rely on what people like you say. They will come away from this with false conclusions like:

Lecturers want more money
Lecturers get €25 per script and they can do four an hour
A lot of lecturers are on over €100,000 a year.

I know that you are aware that all of those are incorrect but some people are looking for sensational "facts" and will then spread them around the place.

Agreed completely and I hope to create a "Summary Topic" which ill point people to. As this thread is a mix of factual and non factual statements. Its a mess and needs a concise summary at this point.

Whether they should have been paid that amount in the first place is a matter of debate alright. I was under the impression that they were willing to negotiate on the amount but the college wouldn't budge and that's why we are in the dispute. I know your use of the word "more" was more through carelessness than malice but even to say that lecturers aren't willing to take less money (as most people here think) does not seem true to me. I heard that it's just a matter of how much less they are willing to take but the management wouldn't budge on the 50%.

Its something I will seek information on but I was under the impression that they wanted the payment back in full - not part. They also are in dispute about their Grievance Procedure being ignored.

jonsey

Sully wrote: »

Agreed completely and I hope to create a "Summary Topic" which ill point people to. As this thread is a mix of factual and non factual statements. Its a mess and needs a concise summary at this point.

Very good. Thanks.

Sully wrote: »

Its something I will seek information on but I was under the impression that they wanted the payment back in full - not part. They also are in dispute about their Grievance Procedure being ignored.

The negotiation I referred to was for future exam payments. I think they wanted 100% for the ones already done alright but were willing to negotiate on the rate going forward (hate to use such management speak!). The Grievance Procedure is a big issue alright it seems.

sparkling sea

Is there a procedure in place that allows students who paid the full amount for there course to get there exam results. Maybe they should be looking for a refund, considering the contract they made with WIT has been breached in all probability.

Surely two wrongs don't make are right, aren't the lecturers also in breach of procedure by with holding results.

I know there are plenty of good lecuturers who will be worried about the impact this is having on some students. I also know there plenty of bad lecturers who couldn't care less about their students because I have experience of both types. The bad lecturers who don't turn up for there classes and often only stay for 10 minutes when they do turn are in breach of contract, I wonder could the student union or the WIT tackle this long and ongoing problem now that non complience with procedure is an issue.

jonsey

Interesting question regarding the breach of contract. It's possible that the college have breached their contract with us. The only thing is that afaik correcting exams is not part of a lecturer's contract (setting them is). Thus, they would not be in breach and would argue that the college aren't paying them the agreed rate anyway so any contract would be void. Students running into classes blowing whistles and hunting other students out of classes (behaviour which I just saw) is certainly not the way to win the hearts and minds anyway.

sparkling sea

jonsey wrote: »

Interesting question regarding the breach of contract. It's possible that the college have breached their contract with us. The only thing is that afaik correcting exams is not part of a lecturer's contract (setting them is). Thus, they would not be in breach and would argue that the college aren't paying them the agreed rate anyway so any contract would be void. Students running into classes blowing whistles and hunting other students out of classes (behaviour which I just saw) is certainly not the way to win the hearts and minds anyway.

Yes but is the college in breach of contract with the students, the students don't have a contract with the lecturers, procedure is procedure after all.

Also with regard to lazy lecturers are they in breach of their employment contract with college and further is the student union in breach of its duty by not tackling the ongoing and ( if you are a student with a usless lecturer) extremely unfair practice, now the an opening has arrived with regard to the following of specfic rules.

jonsey

I don't know if they are but as I said it's possible and in my opinion the management at the very least have a lot of questions to answer over this whole affair. Lecturers not turning up to class is another issue. You should report such lecturers to the relevant authorities as they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it but it's probably not wise to intertwine that issue with this one and tar all lecturers with the same brush. I know you didn't as you made it clear that there's good and bad lecturers but some people on this thread are fond of generalisation. The issue of lecturers not turning up is actually a much bigger issue imo. If there is an agreement today over releasing the results then they'll probably end up being a week late. I'd take results a week late over lecturers who only turn up when they feel like it for a whole term any day of the week.

sparkling sea

Maybe if someone from the student union is reading this, then they might get some advice on whether or not there has been a breach and if there has been, it would be nice if they could let the students know this.

I agree totally that the issue of sloppy lecturing practice is a completely separate (but long ongoing) one but sometimes advantage should be when the student union has the upper hand as they should have now

With regard to lecturers correcting exams, isn't now part of there contract but WIT has not followed procedure in introducing change ?

thejanitor

I think this media blitz is amazing, Item number 1 on Sky news, CNN are using it on the hour and RTE have created a slot for the news item.

Cant you feel the sarcasm. Once again a glorious unplanned p*ssup.

jonsey wrote: »

Students running into classes blowing whistles and hunting other students out of classes (behaviour which I just saw) is certainly not the way to win the hearts and minds anyway.

Could have predicted that one!

jonsey

sparkling sea wrote: »

Maybe if someone from the student union is reading this, then they might get some advice on whether or not there has been a breach and if there has been, it would be nice if they could let the students know this.

I agree totally that the issue of sloppy lecturing practice is a completely separate (but long ongoing) one but sometimes advantage should be when the student union has the upper hand as they should have now

With regard to lecturers correcting exams, isn't now part of there contract but WIT has not followed procedure in introducing change ?

As far as I know no, it's not planned to bet part of their contract. It's just the rate that will probably change but I could be wrong. That's just what I've heard. As regards the students union having the upper hand - it all depends on who they have the upper hand i.e. who ends up backing down.

jonsey

thejanitor wrote: »

I think this media blitz is amazing, Item number 1 on Sky news, CNN are using it on the hour and RTE have created a slot for the news item.

Cant you feel the sarcasm. Once again a glorious unplanned p*ssup.


Could have predicted that one!

So could I but that doesn't excuse it (as I'm sure from your tone earlier in the post you weren't trying to do). Some students have used this opportunity to abuse lecturers and vent their anger/biterness/frustration on other issues. Some of the things that I've seen today done in the name of the SU will do a lot more harm than good to how we're viewed.

AdMMM

Some people should not be allowed have whistles.

That's really all I can say on the matter.

sparkling sea

jonsey wrote: »

As far as I know no, it's not planned to bet part of their contract. It's just the rate that will probably change but I could be wrong. That's just what I've heard. As regards the students union having the upper hand - it all depends on who they have the upper hand i.e. who ends up backing down.

If you hear anymore on whether or not its a contract or rate issue could you post it.

No matter who wins the students are still the ones who were victimized, the student union would do well to remember this - just in case anyone tries to spin it another way.

2Bv¬2B

Students running into classes blowing whistles and hunting other students out of classes (behaviour which I just saw) is certainly not the way to win the hearts and minds anyway.

I wasn't impressed being disrupted during one of my classes at 11:30. Having people blowing whistles through corridors shouting into classes to come out. Intimidating us to leave the class to participate in something that was not due to start for another 30-40 minutes.

I'd like to know who told these people to drag students out of class?

sparkling sea

jonsey wrote: »

So could I but that doesn't excuse it (as I'm sure from your tone earlier in the post you weren't trying to do). Some students have used this opportunity to abuse lecturers and vent their anger/biterness/frustration on other issues. Some of the things that I've seen today done in the name of the SU will do a lot more harm than good to how we're viewed.

Although this is not the right way to go about it, I hope the SU take note of the fact the there is alot of anger bitterness and frustration among students with regard to other issues, specifically useless lecturers. For what ever reason many students are not bringing these problems to the attention of the SU however the SU is now seeing weight of anger that exists among students perhaps they will tackle these problems on the students behalf.

Some students act like idiots given any opportunity, any rational person will realise that thse people do not represent the SU.

jonsey

sparkling sea wrote: »

If you hear anymore on whether or not its a contract or rate issue could you post it.

No matter who wins the students are still the ones who were victimized, the student union would do well to remember this - just in case anyone tries to spin it another way.

Will do. Agree completely that we're the victims in this. I'm sure everyone agrees with that. Where some people differ is on who is more to blame - the TUI or WIT, and what course of action we should take to fix the problem. The protest today, especially the way it was carried out, was not the best way imo. Intimidating people to come out of class is not on. Disturbing lecturers classes who may not even be in the union is not the best way of achieving our goals either.

wobbles

Was an absoloute joke if you ask me. It could have been handled so much better. Instead of being treated as a serious stand for student rights, it was treated in such an immature way that it just makes the SU look like more of a joke than it already is. If your aim was to lose all respect from staff and some students and look like children ........ great job guys. Well done.

dlofnep

Did someone forget that protests are voluntary?

2Bv¬2B

dlofnep wrote: »

Did someone forget that protests are voluntary?

Agreed but we shouldn't be "blown out" of the classroom during a class, an hour before to do so.

dlofnep

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

Agreed but we shouldn't be "blown out" of the classroom during a class, an hour before to do so.

That was my point. They were trying to drag people out of classes and away from lunch. If people want to attend, they will.

JamieNidan

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

Agreed but we shouldn't be "blown out" of the classroom during a class, an hour before to do so.

You left to join the protest with your own free will its not like you were pushed out the door.

2Bv¬2B

JamieNidan wrote: »

You left to join the protest with your own free will its not like you were pushed out the door.

Well since the class was canceled due to the disruption we had to leave.

thejanitor

2Bv¬2B wrote: »

Well since the class was canceled due to the disruption we had to leave.

The posters around campus should have been enough to rally support. Again the WITSU have shown more immaturity by running into classes and dragging people out.

Lecturers can cancel classes for disruption which means thank to the WITSU, many lecturers have had a nice class or two free with pay! and those students who need and want to be in lectures were denied that because of what happened.

Whoever was responsible for giving RTE its information "Lecturers have since refused to give the students at the college the results of exams that were taken before Christmas." misrepresented the situation. The lecturers are refusing to validate the results with the college due to the dispute, they did not refuse the students. Lecturers have NEVER been responsible for delivering results to the students.

You know what they say. Give clowns the power and expect a circus. the only problem is that there is nothing funny about the clowns running WITSU

MitchKoobski

Not happy with the overall handling of the situation, but did my bit to help where I could. Didn't pull anyone out of class but made a bit of noise at 11:50. We were told to make noise and shout "protest at 12" etc from 11:50. Before that though we just asked anyone walking past to come to the plaza.

At 11:50, we blew the whistles a few times, shouted protest at 12 and walked past the doors holding up signs and t shirts. At no point did we enter any class, take anyone out of class or even knock on any doors.
However its becoming clear that some people who were making noise in the business building from 11:30 were indeed pulling people out of classes, and thats just unacceptable.
Overall they probably pissed more people off than they got in support.

I hope that the TV3 cameraman took some clever shots to make it look like a bigger crowd, because that was barely 200 to 300 people. He and the reporter looked pretty underwhelmed.

I did notice when Cabbage was speaking though she mentioned the TUI rather than the lecturers and it was fair. It felt more like a rally to get incredibly pissed off at though rather than a protest.

2Bv¬2B

MitchKoobski wrote: »

At 11:50, we blew the whistles a few times, shouted protest at 12 and walked past the doors holding up signs and t shirts. At no point did we enter any class, take anyone out of class or even knock on any doors.
However its becoming clear that some people who were making noise in the business building from 11:30 were indeed pulling people out of classes, and thats just unacceptable.
Overall they probably pissed more people off than they got in support.

Whistles were blowing well before then I reckon about 11:35 or so because I thought to myself that's early, In fairness to the volunteers they are only doing what they've been asked but there was no need for that person (who was getting people from the D corridor) to just enter the classroom un-announced, and disrupt a class by blowing a whistle and shouting at people to leave class and go outside. I was fully prepared to go out, when the time came, which was to follow after that class.

As a result I've lost a class because the SU were trying to get as many people as possible so the rally did not appear to be a failure.

Clano

i think the whole thing was a joke and a complete misrepresenttation of the whole situation students are in.

I was class at 11 35 when whistles and fog horns started going off in my corridor followed by loud shouting, banging, extremely loud whistles, this ensued for about 10 or 15 mins while we were trying to have a very important class. As they walked up and down they stared in the window almost looking down on us for going to class even though the protest wasnt til 12.

Then at 12 10 we finished class, walked out to the protest only to be greated by the su on the stand blaring "we dont need no education", i mean is this the message we want send out????

And then we watched the comedy that followed, introducing each member of the su like they are some sort of celebrities??? it looked like some farce,
and really made us look like kids!!

And also what did they think wearing facepaint was going to do?? who in their right mind will take any of us serious if we have twats going around blowing whistles and wearing face paint???

I am very angry about this, i mean the su's heart was in the right place and im greatful for that but their methods were an absolute joke

MitchKoobski

This is just shameful.
The comments went from a debate on what was done to get students out, to "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH".
You cant make this stuff up.

http://www.facebook.com/witsu?v=feed&story_fbid=108236502524004#!/witsu?v=feed&story_fbid=108236502524004

2Bv¬2B

Clano wrote: »

Then at 12 10 we finished class, walked out to the protest only to be greated by the su on the stand blaring "we dont need no education", i mean is this the message we want send out????

Irony at it's finest.

Clano wrote: »

I was class at 11 35 when whistles and fog horns started going off in my corridor followed by loud shouting, banging, extremely loud whistles, this ensued for about 10 or 15 mins while we were trying to have a very important class. As they walked up and down they stared in the window almost looking down on us for going to class even though the protest wasnt til 12.

In the same position, except the SU team member decided to barge in whilst our lecture was presenting and demanded we left the class