Exam Results - Delayed (Mod Warning: Post #383 & #420)

CheesedOff

jonsey wrote: »

I did read your post and don't worry my sarcasm detector was turned on. As for the TUI and WIt management being proud of my support - that's just a dumb statement but then again I'm not surprised since facts don't matter to you so feel free to continue to pull things out of your arse if it makes you feel better. If you can find where I supported the TUI and/or the management of WIT then please point me towards it. I try to deal in facts or at least what I honestly believe to be the facts. I've slated the management in many posts here so I don't know how that constitutes support. I'm sure they'd be more proud of your attitude of not caring about the facts or who is to blame. Kind of leaves both of them off scot free if you just protest in general without caring about the details of what caused us to be mixed up in this mess.

How can you deal in facts when you don't have any because both sides believe they are right and you are not a member of the TUI nor are you a member of management. Are you?

If I was the person to decide on what action was to be taken to end this feud, yes I would be interested in facts to make sure the right people won. But as the TUI or Management clearly have no concern or interest in my opinion why in YOUR OPINION should I care about who is right or wrong in their debate?

This issue affects my future because I cannot get hold of my results. That is the only thing that is affecting me. Not having results.

The TUI or management don't deserve to have my respect and me making sure I know the facts of their employee relations. NOTHING TO DO WITH ME.

Exam Results Jonsey, thats all I want.

Look I'm not having a debate with you, I feel my point is valid in this case that facts are unimportant to me because nobody will share them with me. We are not TUI members, we are not management. We are simply pawns.

I am all for facts in other scenarios, innocent until proven guilty and all of that.

I haven't attacked a lecturer or management, I've simply stated I want to do all I can to make sure I get hold of my results asap. I haven't blamed anyone, I haven't pointed the finger, I have always kept neutral and said i was angry at the person/people (whoever they may be) who agreed to hold back on results.

Im not interested in their dispute, I'm interested in my results.

I can't make it any clearer. So I need to end this ongoing misunderstanding and debate with us. It's not achieving anything. But I'll finish by saying I respect your input.

Now back to the matter in hand.

What's the next move for students to have their voices heard?

jonsey

That's fair enough. I am not a member of the TUI or management but that doesn't mean we don't know any facts but fair enouugh we'll agree to differ. We all want the same outcome afterall.

sparkling sea

thejanitor wrote: »

It would be more productive if the members of WITSU identified their war first and took a pro-active approach such as organised a bag pack in tesco's to raise money to hire a professional negotiator with experience in union disputes. How about regular fundraising to make sure there is sufficient funds available should something like this happen in the future.

Couldn't disagree with you more, I think hiring a professional with experience in union disputes is the worst thing the SU could do, if such a person exists. The LRC could and should be called upon by either/both sides in this dispute but the SU has no part to play here and should not get involved in this fight. Further they don't have any standing to allow them to participate in discussion and if they had been allowed to sit in on discussions wouldn't this only have made things worse as not doubt they probabaly would have taken a side - this is not their job.

The SU should concentrate its efforts on any legal avenue available to them with regard to non delivery of services by WIT.

The students are not in dispute with the TUI, the TUI and the college are in dispute

Results and any legal routes that allow students to get the results should be the only interest of the SU and the students. Stay out of the this dispute and don't be used by either side, there is always a price to pay if you get involved in things that you have no control over.

Mollie1

Well I don't know what the fellas will do, but I know how to get my degree lol

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2835885/Women-given-fetish-degrees.html

sparkling sea

Who has legal ownership of the exam manuscripts. Who has said booklets.

I think they are the property of the college, not the lecturers. The SU should find out who has them from WIT. The results are on the front of these booklets.

sparkling sea

Mollie1 wrote: »

Well I don't know what the fellas will do, but I know how to get my degree lol

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2835885/Women-given-fetish-degrees.html

Probably why women can't crack the glass ceiling

Mollie1

All joking aside..is it not possible to access exam scripts and results under the freedom of information act?

2brnot2b

CheesedOff wrote: »

This issue affects my future because I cannot get hold of my results. That is the only thing that is affecting me. Not having results.

Your results are not even 36 hours overdue at this point! I know even if a resolution has been agreed this afternoon, it will still be a few days before results are processed, but WIT will still have results to students long before many other colleges.

Mind you, listening to the news reports, and the SU, it's as if you have been waiting for results since before Christmas, which was never the case.

On another point, the behaviour of some of the SU members today was despicable - shouting at lecturers in the corridors and hauling students out of classrooms is a totally unacceptable way for adults to behave. I hope when these students do get jobs they conduct themselves in a more professsional manner than I witnessed today.

2Bv¬2B

2brnot2b wrote: »

On another point, the behaviour of some of the SU members today was despicable - shouting at lecturers in the corridors and hauling students out of classrooms is a totally unacceptable way for adults to behave. I hope when these students do get jobs they conduct themselves in a more professsional manner than I witnessed today.

Agreed, coming into a classroom shortly after a lecture started blowing whistles and airhorns is not acceptable, unfair and a disgrace.

CheesedOff

2brnot2b wrote: »

Your results are not even 36 hours overdue at this point! I know even if a resolution has been agreed this afternoon, it will still be a few days before results are processed, but WIT will still have results to students long before many other colleges.

Mind you, listening to the news reports, and the SU, it's as if you have been waiting for results since before Christmas, which was never the case.

On another point, the behaviour of some of the SU members today was despicable - shouting at lecturers in the corridors and hauling students out of classrooms is a totally unacceptable way for adults to behave. I hope when these students do get jobs they conduct themselves in a more professsional manner than I witnessed today.

Excuse me, I am not going to wait for another month to kick up a fuss, this needed to be done at first warning of these results not coming out.
I paid for a service, I expect to receive it.
I studied damn hard, I expect to see the outcome.

I don't care if its an hour late, it is disgraceful that they could not sort this issue out some other way.

If everyone took your attitude, the TUI and WIT management would get away with this disgraceful behaviour believing that no-one cares and who knows how far they'd take it if they felt we wouldn't care if we got our results or not.

And yes one or two have mentioned some students behaviour today but I rather would focus on the behaviour of the TUI members and WIT management, far more despicable.
A bit of noise won't be risking the future of others.

It is not acceptable on any level that withholding results is the answer to this problem even if it is for an hour, not to mention 36. And nobody knows how long its going to continue.
What does the future hold for students of WIT if we don't make a fuss when something as crazy as this happens? Students being used as pawns so staff can get their way (be that lecturers or management.)

There was absolutely no thought or consideration given to the students.

Nobody in the college could sink any lower in my opinion than those who agreed on holding our results.

(this does not mean I agree with the behaviour you mentioned but theres bigger issues at hand)

sparkling sea

2brnot2b wrote: »

Your results are not even 36 hours overdue at this point! I know even if a resolution has been agreed this afternoon, it will still be a few days before results are processed, but WIT will still have results to students long before many other colleges.

Mind you, listening to the news reports, and the SU, it's as if you have been waiting for results since before Christmas, which was never the case.

On another point, the behaviour of some of the SU members today was despicable - shouting at lecturers in the corridors and hauling students out of classrooms is a totally unacceptable way for adults to behave. I hope when these students do get jobs they conduct themselves in a more professsional manner than I witnessed today.

Students should not have wait for there results no exceptions. If delay is causing distress which it obviously has then its not good enough, full stop.

Bad conduct and rudeness is unacceptable.
Maybe some of the conduct of some of the students is a result of some of the examples set by some of the lecturers. As a mature student I find some lecturers attitudes to their job and the example they set to students to be totally unacceptable. I work fulltime and have done for all my working life even when in college and I have to say that about half the lecturers wouldn't last the day in a private corporation unless they changed their attitude to work.

Its a pity that some of the people, both students and lecturers cannot conduct themselves in a more professional manner.
By the way please don't tell me to complain about these lecturers, I already have and have been informed that only the Minister for Education can "sack" lecturers. Charming
This may also be a reason why this dispute has not been resolved yet.

Anyway it is between the TUI and management and not really of any concern to students, how should only be concentrating on legal means of getting the results. No side tracking should be allowed

dlofnep

CheesedOff wrote: »

There was absolutely no thought or consideration given to the students.

Not only by WIT management/TUI, but also by the idiots who were causing a scene in college today disrupting classes.

We're glad you protested, but dragging people out in mid-class was not acceptable and was downright childish behaviour. Half of the people there didn't even have a clue why the results were delayed, and as far as they were concerned - it was because "the lecturers were greedy and didn't want a paycut" which couldn't be further from the truth.

2brnot2b

CheesedOff wrote: »

I paid for a service, I expect to receive it.
I studied damn hard, I expect to see the outcome.

Well I delivered a service, I expect to get paid for it.
I work damn hard, I expect to see an outcome too.

Look, I fully accept that students are the innocent party in all of this, but it is a complex issue, but it should have been resolved behind closed doors - no doubt about it. But if your employer refused to pay you an agreed rate of pay for work you have done over the past six months, then refused to abide by a national agreed grievance procedure to resolve the issue, and refused to negotiate with you, what would you do? Just accept it? I doubt it.

CheesedOff wrote: »

There was absolutely no thought or consideration given to the students.

I can assure you that months of thought and consideration were given to this issue and ways to resolve it without affecting the students by the TUI. It really was an absolute last resort, whether you want to believe it or not.

CheesedOff wrote: »

Nobody in the college could sink any lower in my opinion than those who agreed on holding our results.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that!

2brnot2b

sparkling sea wrote: »

By the way please don't tell me to complain about these lecturers, I already have and have been informed that only the Minister for Education can "sack" lecturers. Charming.

That is not true.

2brnot2b

sparkling sea wrote: »

The SU should concentrate its efforts on any legal avenue available to them with regard to non delivery of services by WIT.

A very sensible suggestion imo.

CheesedOff

2brnot2b wrote: »

Well I delivered a service, I expect to get paid for it.
Damn right.

I work damn hard, I expect to see an outcome too.
And rightfully so



Look, I fully accept that students are the innocent party in all of this, but it is a complex issue, but it should have been resolved behind closed doors - no doubt about it. But if your employer refused to pay you an agreed rate of pay for work you have done over the past six months, then refused to abide by a national agreed grievance procedure to resolve the issue, and refused to negotiate with you, what would you do? Just accept it? I doubt it.

I absolutely would not just accept it, but I wouldn't drag an innocent bystander into the dispute to use as bait.


I can assure you that months of thought and consideration were given to this issue and ways to resolve it without affecting the students by the TUI. It really was an absolute last resort, whether you want to believe it or not.

How can you assure me of that? What part are you playing in this? I choose not to believe it, the students are no part of this, so using us as a 'last resort' still does not make it acceptable. There is no excuse. They should have figured out another way to deal with this. Go to a higher power for example.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that!

I guess we will.

thejanitor

The students are not in dispute with the TUI, the TUI and the college are in dispute

Exactly. This is the point I have been trying to make since Monday!

We all know that protesting will not make any difference to the situation. It is just an excuse for WITSU to have an adrenaline rush!

The exam results are not even a week late as of yet and already people are in panic. It is fact that this delay in results will not impact anyone as there will be mitigating circumstances in effect for anyone depending on them for employers and other colleges.

In relation to WITSU engaging the assistance of a 3rd party professional. What is the problem with getting assistance from a professional. Getting someone that actually knows what they are doing and explore all options available to students legal or otherwise. If something can be done to speed things up between TUI and WIT I assume a commercial law solicitor or barrister would be a great advantage. These people have seen similar cases many times before and know what can and cannot be done to resolve them.

Let the professionals deal with it. I have no time for people that cry about wanting to do well in exams etc and then wasting time outside, missing important classes, kicking and screaming about something that they can do nothing about.

I have spoken to lecturers in the college over the past few days who are not impressed with the WITSU action at all. As one of them correctly pointed out to me "The SU cannot think much of student welfare if they are encouraging them to miss class to protest at something they cannot fix". I have also said to most lecturers I know that it would be a good idea for them to hold their important classes such as practicals and assignments (things you need to be present and signed off on) on the days that any further action is due, to ensure those that are silly enough to continue this protest farce are directly effected because of their own choices.

Time to grow up and stop looking for excuses to miss class. The exam results will not be long around the corner. Talks are going well between both parties and good news is expected next week.

Sully

2brnot2b wrote: »

A very sensible suggestion imo.

A suggestion which would cost a large sum of money and should not be exactly spent on such an issue so soon.

jonnyfingers

2brnot2b wrote: »

I can assure you that months of thought and consideration were given to this issue and ways to resolve it without affecting the students by the TUI. It really was an absolute last resort, whether you want to believe it or not.

So withholding the exam results was a last resort, fair enough. If an agreement can't be reached soon, lets say over the next few months, will the TUI continue to refuse to give out exam results? What about setting the papers for the second semester exams?

If the TUI don't get what they want is there even back-up plan that won't affect the students?

wobbles

Sully wrote: »

A suggestion which would cost a large sum of money and should not be exactly spent on such an issue so soon.

Exactly, they have spent more than enough on their little escapade already.

sparkling sea

Sully wrote: »

A suggestion which would cost a large sum of money and should not be exactly spent on such an issue so soon.

No it wouldn't, any student could contact the Citizens Advice Service and get free legal advice, it is way to soon to spend money on this. Also if you contact a solictor first you cannot avail of the free service.

Alternatively there are quite alot of legal studies students on the College Street Campus who not only study employment law but also study contract law. Now I know I said the WIT has some useless lecturers, however there are also some brillant lecturers employed there who have thought there students well.

I know I am stating the obivious but I wouldn't recommend asking Kathleen for advice on this particular issue

2brnot2b

CheesedOff wrote: »

How can you assure me of that? What part are you playing in this? I choose not to believe it, the students are no part of this, so using us as a 'last resort' still does not make it acceptable. There is no excuse. They should have figured out another way to deal with this. Go to a higher power for example.

I can assure of it, because I've witnessed it.

I never said that dragging students into this debacle was acceptable at all - I've yet to speak to a colleague who does.

As for going to a higher power for a resolution - the LRC won't intervene in this process until the internal grievance procedure is exhausted. WIT won't engage in the process. If it refferred at this point it'll just be sent back to WIT and the TUI. So unless you are suggesting divine intervention, I don't really see where else there is to go.

Thankfully, both sides met yesterday morning and seem close to resolution.

2brnot2b

sparkling sea wrote: »

Alternatively there are quite alot of legal studies students on the College Street Campus who not only study employment law but also study contract law. Now I know I said the WIT has some useless lecturers, however there are also some brillant lecturers employed there who have thought there students well.
[/QUOTE

Exactly - there are lots of legal experts floating round the hallowed halls of WIT that could advise on this matter, and plenty of WIT alumni are practising solicitors that I'm sure could be prevailed upon for some advice.
Use the resources that are abundant on campus.

sparkling sea

Glad to hear a resolution is in sight - or an exhuastion of the grievance procedure.

However the SU needs to keep on top of this and get the advice needed, just in case everything goes belly up.

sparkling sea

[QUOTE=thejanitor;643
The exam results are not even a week late as of yet and already people are in panic. It is fact that this delay in results will not impact anyone as there will be mitigating circumstances in effect for anyone depending on them for employers and other colleges.

Very few employers need and can allow for mitigating circumstances
in the current economic climate, there to busy trying to keep there businesses afloat, they don't need the hassle when there are some many people looking for a job. In reality they will pick someone else because its the easiest option.

[QUOTE=thejanitor;643
If something can be done to speed things up between TUI and WIT I assume a commercial law solicitor or barrister would be a great advantage.

Why do you assume this, they would have no part to play in the TUI WIT dispute - its a crazy assumption.
Any third or fourth year law student could point the SU in the right direction and there are plenty other resources that the SU could easily access for free.

thejanitor

sparkling sea wrote: »

[QUOTE=thejanitor;643
The exam results are not even a week late as of yet and already people are in panic. It is fact that this delay in results will not impact anyone as there will be mitigating circumstances in effect for anyone depending on them for employers and other colleges.

Very few employers need and can allow for mitigating circumstances
in the current economic climate, there to busy trying to keep there businesses afloat, they don't need the hassle when there are some many people looking for a job. In reality they will pick someone else because its the easiest option.

And in what scenario would an employer require such urgent results for Christmas exams?

[QUOTE=thejanitor;643
If something can be done to speed things up between TUI and WIT I assume a commercial law solicitor or barrister would be a great advantage.

Why do you assume this, they would have no part to play in the TUI WIT dispute - its a crazy assumption.
Any third or fourth year law student could point the SU in the right direction and there are plenty other resources that the SU could easily access for free.

They would have every part to play as they would have more field experience than any 3rd or 4th year law student in WIT.

Sully

Would prefer the union asked a legal professional rather then a student.

You cant just start giving advise after a few years in college for god sake.

seanyroche

i cant be bothered to read these comments

alpha2zulu

One of our lecturers has mentioned that the TUI and WIT have come to some sort of an agreement today. The TUI has called a meeting for this evening for their members. If their previous votes are anything to go by their is a fair chance the dispute will be effectively over come tonight in my opinion.

jonsey

seanyroche wrote: »

i cant be bothered to read these comments

Well don't bother then. Nobody asked you to, but thanks for letting us know.