Motorway driving in Ireland

wellbutty

On a recent spin to Derry over Christmas, I was amazed at how many people in this country have no idea what they're doing on a motorway and how the gardai can fail to see the following:

1) A jeep parked up on the hard shoulder on the M1 near Drogheda. The two fellas were outside the jeep, under an overpass (to avoid the rain) eating sandwiches and drinking tea.

2) Carlow bypass...saw two cars parked up on the hard shoulder, owners having a p*ss in a nearby field

3) Carlow bypass...abandonded car, which had been there at least 24 hours as it was fully frosted over. Why was it not towed away?

4) M1 near Drogheda, jeep buried in the crash barrier in the middle of the road, no one in it or near it. It had been there at least 24 hours. No warning signs, why was it not towed away?

Meanwhile a car passed me doing around 135kmh and was caught by the fixed speed camera.

Yes we dont have emergency phones on all motorways yet, yes we dont have service stations yet. We rarely have signs indicating that parking areas are in 5, 10, 15 kilometers etc. But how stupid can people be? Rant over... :mad:

bmaxi

Until recently and possibly even still, I haven't kept up, there was no tuition allowed on motorways. It is hard to educate someone on the etiquette of motorway driving without bringing them on to one.
This IMO is best evidenced by the number of lunatics who drive down the ramp at 60kph, put on their indicator and move on to the carriageway, forcing traffic travelling at 120kph to brake.

HydeRoad

There is tuition on motorway driving, it's in the Rules of the Road. Unfortunately this book is surplus to requirements for far too many drivers, for whom the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal are the sum total of driving ability, and everything else is deemed an irrelevance.

DWCommuter

bmaxi wrote: »

Until recently and possibly even still, I haven't kept up, there was no tuition allowed on motorways. It is hard to educate someone on the etiquette of motorway driving without bringing them on to one.
This IMO is best evidenced by the number of lunatics who drive down the ramp at 60kph, put on their indicator and move on to the carriageway, forcing traffic travelling at 120kph to brake.

I suggest they start by giving the Gardai a crash course (crap pun) on motorway rules. Setting up check points on entry ramps cannot possibly be a safe thing to do and do it they do.

bmaxi

DWCommuter wrote: »

I suggest they start by giving the Gardai a crash course (crap pun) on motorway rules. Setting up check points on entry ramps cannot possibly be a safe thing to do and do it they do.

It's common knowledge that the sum total of Garda familiarity with the ROTR is to be found down the sight of a speed camera.

Chris_533976

One can argue quite strongly that (1) and (2) would be solved if the NRA hadnt dithered over the MSAs. As it stands, its going to be years before the M8 and M9 (anyway) have their complement.

DWCommuter

Chris_533976 wrote: »

One can argue quite strongly that (1) and (2) would be solved if the NRA hadnt dithered over the MSAs. As it stands, its going to be years before the M8 and M9 (anyway) have their complement.

Hmm...Im not so sure. Whatever about point 2 (the wee wee point:D) solving point 1 does not require the provision of MSAs. If you want to have the sambos, pull off at an exit and park up somewhere safer. The very fact that people park up on a motorway hard shoulder for the "tea" is more to do with not knowing motorway rules and a culture of doing it. Even if we had MSAs I reckon they'd still do it. Thats why its important that the Gardai enforce the rules and treat them with the same importance as road tax and speeding.

I have one particular "sambo" related memory from my childhood. It was a GAA match day in Croker and some travelling supporters parked the car up on the central reservation of the Naas Rd dual carriageway near the Green Isle hotel. It was grass back then. They sat happily on a blanket having a picnic!

macdragon76

HydeRoad wrote: »

There is tuition on motorway driving, it's in the Rules of the Road. Unfortunately this book is surplus to requirements for far too many drivers, for whom the brake pedal and the accelerator pedal are the sum total of driving ability, and everything else is deemed an irrelevance.

Yes, but rules of the road and actual driving or 2 different things.

There should be motorway simulations as part of a test like in the UK.

The Irish test is completely rubbish and needs to be completely overhauled, I know loads of drivers who learn to pass the test and then ignore all of the rules the next day.

And anyway, how can you be expected to be able to drive on a motorway safely by just reading the rules of the road, I wouldn't learn to ride a bike by reading a book; I usually learn by a combination of knowledge, trial and error but are motorways the best place for to make mistakes while learning.( I mean this after the completing the test obviously)

dcr22B

DWCommuter wrote: »

I suggest they start by giving the Gardai a crash course (crap pun) on motorway rules. Setting up check points on entry ramps cannot possibly be a safe thing to do and do it they do.

Or setting themselves up on slip roads to do a speed trap on the inbound carraigeways.

dudara

I presume that the Gardai on patrol are instructed on what they should and shouldn't enforce. What I wish they would do is enforce correct lane driving.

This is a real bugbear of mine, but having spent 6 months commuting everyday on the 3-lane section of the N7 between Dublin and Naas, I'm really p*ssed off. The leftmost lane on that road may as well not exist for all the notice that people take of it. But even forgetting that, there are a huge amount of drivers who will stay in the rightmost overtaking lane until someone appears behind them.

Another bugbear is when drivers pass a garda car, either on the roadside/ramp or on the road itself. All of a sudden, the whole road will slow to 70-80 kmph. Why?

kravmaga

wellbutty wrote: »

On a recent spin to Derry over Christmas, I was amazed at how many people in this country have no idea what they're doing on a motorway and how the gardai can fail to see the following:

1) A jeep parked up on the hard shoulder on the M1 near Drogheda. The two fellas were outside the jeep, under an overpass (to avoid the rain) eating sandwiches and drinking tea.

2) Carlow bypass...saw two cars parked up on the hard shoulder, owners having a p*ss in a nearby field

3) Carlow bypass...abandonded car, which had been there at least 24 hours as it was fully frosted over. Why was it not towed away?

4) M1 near Drogheda, jeep buried in the crash barrier in the middle of the road, no one in it or near it. It had been there at least 24 hours. No warning signs, why was it not towed away?

Meanwhile a car passed me doing around 135kmh and was caught by the fixed speed camera.

Yes we dont have emergency phones on all motorways yet, yes we dont have service stations yet. We rarely have signs indicating that parking areas are in 5, 10, 15 kilometers etc. But how stupid can people be? Rant over... :mad:

Well when I did my driving test way back in 1987 there was no tuition for Motorway driving.

Its a mindset change that is needed and the RSA can only do so much.
The Garda Traffic Corps can only do so much also.

Irish driving practices are very poor compared to European.
Irish people have no patience and poor attention to rules and regulations.

I saw 3 drivers on handheld mobile telephones today and this was on a frozen over road in my estate. :eek:

kravmaga

dudara wrote: »

This is a real bugbear of mine, but having spent 6 months commuting everyday on the 3-lane section of the N7 between Dublin and Naas, I'm really p*ssed off. The leftmost lane on that road may as well not exist for all the notice that people take of it. But even forgetting that, there are a huge amount of drivers who will stay in the rightmost overtaking lane until someone appears behind them.

Lane 1 -Left lane should have HGV's ,Rigid trucks or slow moving vehicles but more than the 50kmph

Lane 2 -Middle lane

Lane 3- This is the overtaking lane and vehicle should then move back to lane 2 when it is safe to do so. Lane 3 should be free most of the time.
Yes i have seen and experienced vehicles staying in Lane 3 and doing 120kmph. These drivers are idiots and must be on some sort of ego trip.

dudara

Respectfully, I have to argue your interpretation, or at least, provide an alternative view.

Leftmost lane is a driving lane. All traffic should be in this lane, unless passing other traffic.

Middle lane is the first overtaking lane. Used to overtake traffic in the driving lane, which then returns to the driving lane when an opportunity presents.

Rightmost lane is the second overtaking lane. Traffic uses this when there is slower moving traffic present in the driving and first overtaking. Traffic filters back in the first overtaking lane and then the driving lane when opportunity presents.

Now if the road was busy, as you described, all slower moving traffic would be in the driving lane, meaning that you would spend most of the time in the first overtaking lane. That's correct lane discipline on a busy road.

The problem is that that a lot of Irish drivers just start in the first overtaking and stay there, regardless of the state of the driving lane. If the driving lane is empty for a reasonable distance ahead, you are supposed to move into it. The ROR state to stay left.

In other words, you should always be in the leftmost lane available to you.

Even on a quiet road, you will come across drivers in the first overtaking, or even second overtaking lane with no one around them anywhere. We are just lazy drivers. Granted, a lot of this is due to a lack of education, but still...

murphaph

My German girlfriend asked me on our recent trip to Ireland, "how come so many drivers just stay in the overtaking lane?". I answered that lots of people are unfamiliar with motorway driving. She said, "don't they have to do lessons on the Motorway to get a driving licence?" Ah bless her blissful ignorance

The cops in Berlin were out checking for snow on car roofs today because it can be dangerous if you don't clear it off before setting off as it can easily blow onto the car behind's windscren or slide forward onto your own when you brake. They don't just sit in laybys with speed guns here.

The Gardai are actually often the biggest offenders on the roads. They are often the sh!ttiest drivers too.

xabi

blueeyedboy wrote: »

Lane 1 -Left lane should have HGV's ,Rigid trucks or slow moving vehicles but more than the 50kmph

Lane 2 -Middle lane

Lane 3- This is the overtaking lane and vehicle should then move back to lane 2 when it is safe to do so. Lane 3 should be free most of the time.
Yes i have seen and experienced vehicles staying in Lane 3 and doing 120kmph. These drivers are idiots and must be on some sort of ego trip.

Thats wrong - Lane 1 is for all vehicles, if its free, you should be driving in it.

X.

kravmaga

But Lane 1 is always busy with vehicular traffic

DWCommuter

murphaph wrote: »

My German girlfriend asked me on our recent trip to Ireland, "how come so many drivers just stay in the overtaking lane?". I answered that lots of people are unfamiliar with motorway driving. She said, "don't they have to do lessons on the Motorway to get a driving licence?" Ah bless her blissful ignorance

The cops in Berlin were out checking for snow on car roofs today because it can be dangerous if you don't clear it off before setting off as it can easily blow onto the car behind's windscren or slide forward onto your own when you brake. They don't just sit in laybys with speed guns here.

The Gardai are actually often the biggest offenders on the roads. They are often the sh!ttiest drivers too.

You know, a lot of the time its embarrassing to be Irish. So much of this incomptetence is avoidable, but our "leaders" are gombeen idiots.

dudara

blueeyedboy wrote: »

But Lane 1 is always busy with vehicular traffic

If it's busy, AND you're moving faster, then drive in the first overtaking lane, as you described.

But, if it's empty for a reasonable distance ahead, move into it.

kravmaga

dudara wrote: »

If it's busy, AND you're moving faster, then drive in the first overtaking lane, as you described.

But, if it's empty for a reasonable distance ahead, move into it.

Yes I always do when it is safe to do so...........
But why in your opinion do you think most drivers using the 3 lane M7 do this?

Brian CivilEng

I generally sit in the leftmost lane when driving down the N7 but a few recent experiences of slow moving mergers has made me understand why many people sit in the middle. It can be difficult to move to the middle lane when someone merges on front of you due to the middle lane being busy. So you just have to slow right down to avoid the merger, then gear down to third to accelerate back up to speed again. I can see why sitting in the middle lane, is tempting but I am a pedant for by the book driving and a glutton for punishment.

dudara

Most drivers don't do it. That's my problem. Drive the N7 on an anyway regular basis (especially in heavy rain or inclement weather) and you will have the sh*te scared out of you on so many occasions that you'll wonder why more people don't die on our roads.

DWCommuter

dudara wrote: »

Most drivers don't do it. That's my problem. Drive the N7 on an anyway regular basis (especially in heavy rain or inclement weather) and you will have the sh*te scared out of you on so many occasions that you'll wonder why more people don't die on our roads.

As a daily user of the N7, I agree wholeheartedly.

AndrewMc

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I generally sit in the leftmost lane when driving down the N7 but a few recent experiences of slow moving mergers has made me understand why many people sit in the middle.

Merging is a pet peeve of mine. There are far too many people who think "I don't have to accelerate, I just stay in the merging lane to the very end, and then drift across (without indicating) into the traffic and they have to let me in". :mad:

Carawaystick

AndrewMc wrote: »

Merging is a pet peeve of mine. There are far too many people who think "I don't have to accelerate, I just stay in the merging lane to the very end, and then drift across (without indicating) into the traffic and they have to let me in". :mad:

In France they have yield signs at the end of the merge to explicitly show who has to yield to who.
In Ireland we have merging lanes of about 30m like on the M1 or even merging from a stop sign back in the day...
In Ireland we build non-freeflow motorway junctions that cost more than doing it right and the excuse the council gives is so drivers can turn back if they made a mistake......

corktina

can i just mention that there is no law against paying your driving instructor to take you on the Motorway for an hour AFTER you have passed your test

..thats if you bother to get an instructor that is....driving in Ireland would be far better if you HAD to have at least a basic course with a Professional.

Capt'n Midnight

blueeyedboy wrote: »

But Lane 1 is always busy with vehicular traffic

Just a reminder
On the Naas road southbound lane 1 is my private lane for my exclusive use.

Well it might as well be

bmaxi

murphaph wrote: »

The cops in Berlin were out checking for snow on car roofs today because it can be dangerous if you don't clear it off before setting off as it can easily blow onto the car behind's windscren or slide forward onto your own when you brake. They don't just sit in laybys with speed guns here.

.

Ah! but you see, having lived in Germany myself for a while I happen to know you have a professional, well disciplined police force there, so no fair comparison.

veryangryman

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I generally sit in the leftmost lane when driving down the N7 but a few recent experiences of slow moving mergers has made me understand why many people sit in the middle. It can be difficult to move to the middle lane when someone merges on front of you due to the middle lane being busy. So you just have to slow right down to avoid the merger, then gear down to third to accelerate back up to speed again. I can see why sitting in the middle lane, is tempting but I am a pedant for by the book driving and a glutton for punishment.

Guys, im gonna hit the problem nail on the head here.

The issue is simple. Most drivers will have grinned and beared the M50 at one stage or another. Most approaches to merges involve advising drivers to use left lane if exiting, centre/right lane if staying on Motorway.

This deviates from the normal practice of "Drive on left, overtake on right"

The Naas Road similarly is extremely busy. Ideally, you would stay in left lane, but it is also difficult to do the staying in lane bit in rush hour with mergees going on all around. Similarly Athlone bypass around Roscommon Exit - very dangerous as every gombeen/tractor from the sticks of Connacht jumps in front of your tits.

I wonder if the rule was more strictly enforced on Motorways (I stress Motorways, not DCs as it is only feasible on properly designed Motorways) with the same VMS signs ive seen on new M6, we might have some luck. Of course, for this to work, you would also have to relegate to M50 to DC (as it is NOT possible to do it on a busy road like this)

jd

veryangryman wrote: »

you would also have to relegate to M50 to DC (as it is NOT possible to do it on a busy road like this)

God help us! Cyclists and pedestrians on the M50

Some DC's may not be under Motorway restrictions, but the drive left rule is still applicable (eg much of the N11 as far as the Rathnew by-pass)

Lennoxschips

Of course, for this to work, you would also have to relegate to M50 to DC (as it is NOT possible to do it on a busy road like this)

On the peripherique in Paris, which makes the M50 look like a piece of piss, merging traffic has right of way over traffic already on the motorway. So you HAVE to move over or they'll just crash right into you and you'll be held liable.

So if they are able to move over on the peripherique (and on every other busy motorway I've ever been on in Europe) then it should be possible in Dublin too.

sesna

On the few occasions I have cycled up the M50, from the N4 juntion to Ballymount. I have had suffered inordinate abuse at the hands of impetuous drivers, for no apparent reason. It is little wonder Irish drivers are considered so poor compared to their European counterparts.