15 year old boy who had consensual sex with 14 year old girl faces 5 years in prison

ToniTuddle

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness sex ed should be done at home preferably from a very young age...its not fair to rely on the schools to do parents work for them

Which has been a sore point in Irelands history!

Parents simply won't bloody talk about sex with their kids. Always shying away from the subject matter. Catholic guilt and all that. Which is why schools could at least try. But then the Church owned the majority of them...and so the cycle continued.

But hopefully now all the new generations of parents will be open about topics like sex.
Maybe somewhere down the line things will improve.

Dravokivich

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Which has been a sore point in Irelands history!

Parents simply won't bloody talk about sex with their kids. Always shying away from the subject matter. Catholic guilt and all that. Which is why schools could at least try. But then the Church owned the majority of them...and so the cycle continued.

But hopefully now all the new generations of parents will be open about topics like sex.
Maybe somewhere down the line things will improve.

My old man had no problem telling me what sex was once i had heard of it...

The problem is knowing when to tell your off spring about sex...

12 / 13 / 14...

To be honest.. i still think are kids...

I think the problem is how and when to approach the subject, not the subject itself.

- Drav!

ToniTuddle

Dravokivich wrote: »

My old man had no problem telling me what sex was once i had heard of it...

The problem is knowing when to tell your off spring about sex...

12 / 13 / 14...

To be honest.. i still think are kids...

I think the problem is how and when to approach the subject, not the subject itself.

- Drav!

All my mother ever said to me was... "don't let a man put his hand up your skirt".

That was my sex education!!!
They recommend informing kids even younger just of the differences between males and females but I honestly don't know if that is a good idea or not.
Parents just need to be open and welcoming so that kids won't feel afraid or awkward about coming to them and asking a question.

Piste

Dravokivich wrote: »

My old man had no problem telling me what sex was once i had heard of it...

The problem is knowing when to tell your off spring about sex...

12 / 13 / 14...

To be honest.. i still think are kids...

I think the problem is how and when to approach the subject, not the subject itself.

- Drav!

I suppose it depends on whether you view sex as something children need to be "protected" from, or whether you view it as something that's part of our lives.

Personally when I have kids I'll just answer any questions they have as they arise, same as I would if they asked me "mommy, where does food go when we eat it?" and I'll tailor my answer according to their age. If kids grow up seeing sex as something natural and normal, and not something taboo that adults are trying to keep from them they wont be as likely to make some huge mistake when experimenting.

Podge_irl

sparkling sea wrote: »

Unfortunately parents reporting and insisting on a prosecution has resulted in a person being convicted of this crime within the past few months

Oh I know. My point was that whether the boy's parents had complained or the girl's parents had complained the boy was always the only one who could get arrested. Parents who push through with this kind of complaint quite frankly aren't fit to be parents in my view. They're just destroying another kid's life because they're upset at what their daughter is consensually getting up to.

Dravokivich

ToniTuddle wrote: »

All my mother ever said to me was... "don't let a man put his hand up your skirt".

That was my sex education!!!
They recommend informing kids even younger just of the differences between males and females but I honestly don't know if that is a good idea or not.
Parents just need to be open and welcoming so that kids won't feel afraid or awkward about coming to them and asking a question.

Well... I;m 25 now... so by no means an ole fella...

but when i was 12... i was in a Catholic Primary school that had a counsellor in teaching us sex ed...

parentle consent needed to be given for us to part take in this also... but i;d known about the dam thing since i was 10 so was nothing new to me or anything to giggle at...

but yeah... as you said, the small amount you knew and though was sex... its all down to the parents being protective.. not wanting their kids involved in it... and not knowing when to tell their kids about sex instead of the birds and the bee's...

- Drav!

Dudess

ToniTuddle wrote: »

All my mother ever said to me was... "don't let a man put his hand up your skirt".

That was my sex education!!!

A nun in my school had two pearls of wisdom:

"Don't wear shiny shoes with a skirt as he'll look at the reflection".
"If you're sitting on a boy's knee, put newspaper under you".

deadhead13

How did legislation that was supposed to protect minors from predatory adults result in this farce? The rational behind it is absurd - "girls should not be charged because the penalty for them was the possibility of pregnancy". This is a throwback to a sexual morality of another age. Have they not heard of contraception? The use of which would remove the possibility of a penalty for the girl but would still leave the boy open to charges. Madness.

Dravokivich

Piste wrote: »

I suppose it depends on whether you view sex as something children need to be "protected" from, or whether you view it as something that's part of our lives.

Personally when I have kids I'll just answer any questions they have as they arise, same as I would if they asked me "mommy, where does food go when we eat it?" and I'll tailor my answer according to their age. If kids grow up seeing sex as something natural and normal, and not something taboo that adults are trying to keep from them they wont be as likely to make some huge mistake when experimenting.

Piste,

i see where yer coming from. the old man found out i knew sex meant putting yer thing in her thing... bleeding magic markers...

... but i didnt know what happened after that, he didnt cloud it around "love" and such.. he pretty much layed down that sex is how kids are made...


I didnt wanna make kids when i was 10... still in no rush now 15 years later... although since speaking with the ole man about it... i found out about condoms and the pill...

- Drav!

ToniTuddle

Dravokivich wrote: »

but when i was 12... i was in a Catholic Primary school that had a counsellor in teaching us sex ed...

parentle consent needed to be given for us to part take in this also... but i;d known about the dam thing since i was 10 so was nothing new to me or anything to giggle at...

but yeah... as you said, the small amount you knew and though was sex... its all down to the parents being protective.. not wanting their kids involved in it... and not knowing when to tell their kids about sex instead of the birds and the bee's...

- Drav!

That's great the school did that...but I've no idea how they were allowed too!
Of course we all knew about sex from a young age but that's only knowing about the act itself. We weren't taught anything about how it can be abused or manipulated. Weren't taught anything about the emotional side of it all that's what I was getting at.

I went to a Catholic national school and then a convent for secondary school! Not many nuns were left in it but we had a Health Ed class every week, that final week we were suppose to get the "talk".
The teacher looked seriously nervous and just rambled on about periods(we have had them for years love, don't need anymore info on it!).
I piped up at the time about it but she said that she couldn't talk about it.

Now maybe she felt awkward...but being a Health Ed teacher I doubt that was the case.

I really hope this young man does not end up in jail. No matter what he will probably have to move away from the area as there will always be people who will think he is in the wrong(small town/area mentality). Even if the facts are right in front of them.

Pete P Peterson

ToniTuddle wrote: »

All my mother ever said to me was... "don't let a man put his hand up your skirt".

That was my sex education!!!

Did she mention cocks?

therokerroar

He who is fussy gets no pussy.

ToniTuddle

Pete P Peterson wrote: »

Did she mention cocks?

Good Lord no!! Ha!

Bless her quite the innocent wee Mammy she is.

Dravokivich

ToniTuddle wrote: »

That's great the school did that...but I've no idea how they were allowed too!

As i said, parentle consent... no-one can complain, if the folks didnt want you in, you would of been taken out of class...

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Of course we all knew about sex from a young age but that's only knowing about the act itself. We weren't taught anything about how it can be abused or manipulated. Weren't taught anything about the emotional side of it all that's what I was getting at.

I think most parents from then were more concerned about you knowing what it was... instead of that you could get pregnant or that it could be a form of abuse...

ToniTuddle wrote: »

I went to a Catholic national school and then a convent for secondary school! Not many nuns were left in it but we had a Health Ed class every week, that final week we were suppose to get the "talk".
The teacher looked seriously nervous and just rambled on about periods(we have had them for years love, don't need anymore info on it!).
I piped up at the time about it but she said that she couldn't talk about it.

In secondary school... the emphasise tends to be on you being responsible and acting like an adult... I'd say it's rather childish yer teacher didn't recognise that as you said, but even then.. there's the whiplishof parents coming back saying you started talking about more then they thought you should know.

ToniTuddle wrote: »

I really hope this young man does not end up in jail.

Don't mean to break up yer post or make it look like I'm attacking you in any way... but as I said earlier... they would of both known they were underage... there has to be a repercusion, unfortunately the young fella got fúcked in more ways then 1...

- Drav!

Pete P Peterson

ToniTuddle wrote: »

All my mother ever said to me was... "don't let a man put his hand up your skirt".

ToniTuddle wrote: »

Bless her quite the innocent wee Mammy she is.

that's what you think

ToniTuddle

Dravokivich wrote: »

As i said, parentle consent... no-one can complain, if the folks didnt want you in, you would of been taken out of class...
I think most parents from then were more concerned about you knowing what it was... instead of that you could get pregnant or that it could be a form of abuse...

In secondary school... the emphasise tends to be on you being responsible and acting like an adult... I'd say it's rather childish yer teacher didn't recognise that as you said, but even then.. there's the whiplishof parents coming back saying you started talking about more then they thought you should know.

Don't mean to break up yer post or make it look like I'm attacking you in any way... but as I said earlier... they would of both known they were underage... there has to be a repercusion, unfortunately the young fella got fúcked in more ways then 1...

- Drav!

Yeah I know but wouldn't the Church have something to say about sex ed being taught in schools back then? They would have had to pass it before the Board of Education or something?
Maybe some princles just went on ahead.
Oh I didn't mean about letting young people know about abuse as in serious abuse. I meant about older males(eg 20-30) picking up younger girls(14-15). Easily influenced and all that. Nobody tells young people that these people aren't saying nice sweet things because them mean them!

Oh I know you aint attacking me. All good discussion!
Yes they broke the law. But whos to say they even knew that was the law. Mates believe other mates when they say you can't get pregnant if you do it standing up! Even with all the leaflets and info young ones believe their mates alot of the time.
So if they had have been discussing it with friends they could have got alot of misleading info! There always alot of "ifs" in cases like these. But ya can see what I'm on about.
But as most ones on this thread are saying it's unfair he has to suffer the full consequences and the girl gets off scot free.

Moomoo1

Hazys wrote: »

This is even sadder:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson

A 17yr old serving a 10 year sentence for having consensual oral sex not intercourse with a 15yr old. "because of an archaic Georgia law, it was a misdemeanor for teenagers less than three years apart to have sexual intercourse, but a felony for the same kids to have oral sex. "

The law was changed because of this case...
"Afterward, the state legislature changed the law to include an oral sex clause, but that doesn't help Wilson. In yet another baffling twist, the law was written to not apply to cases retroactively"
but he still remains in prison because it was the law at the time, ridiculous.

I believe he got released after 2 years

homerjay2005

there are many crazy laws in this country and this is one of them. sickening stuff, women and men should be treated the same.

daveyboy_1ie

Its a tricky one alright, as the law is the law, it does not depend on emotions. What the defence here is saying is, that because the law is discriminatory it should be changed to make it less so. However the two offences do not cancel each other out. it won't be a case of 'ok you raped her and she raped you so your quits ok? now go on and live your lives'.

Although I agree 100% its unfair on the guy in this case the alternative is changing a law designed to protect young children from predatory guys over the consensual age. I cannot see a justifiable way around it as this law cannot be change din any way to the detriment of young children. At best, if there is such a thing, is the both of them being convicted which is hardly a nice ending as both their lives would be destroyed, instead of just his.

I don't think the law will be changed to 'having sex with anyone under consensual age is rape, unless you are under the age of consent yourself'. i am no expert though, maybe it can but doubt it.

Podge_irl

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

Its a tricky one alright, as the law is the law, it does not depend on emotions. What the defence here is saying is, that because the law is discriminatory it should be changed to make it less so. However the two offences do not cancel each other out. it won't be a case of 'ok you raped her and she raped you so your quits ok? now go on and live your lives'.

Although I agree 100% its unfair on the guy in this case the alternative is changing a law designed to protect young children from predatory guys over the consensual age. I cannot see a justifiable way around it as this law cannot be change din any way to the detriment of young children. At best, if there is such a thing, is the both of them being convicted which is hardly a nice ending as both their lives would be destroyed, instead of just his.

I don't think the law will be changed to 'having sex with anyone under consensual age is rape, unless you are under the age of consent yourself'. i am no expert though, maybe it can but doubt it.

Or just add a clause saying its not an offence if you are both within say 2 years of the same age. Easiest solution. Its not a tricky one at all, the current law is bloody stupid. I thought it was stupid and highly discriminatory when it was brought in and nothing has happened to change my view.

And quite frankly, them both being charged would be preferable to the current situation in some ways, it would serve better to highlight the stupidity of it all.

Irishcrx

This is disgracefull the poor lads life will be ruined, no sence in sending him to jail at all, he is not a rapist or a pervert he was just a young horny teenager and I for one broke this law in my teens aswell as alot of people I know, do they want to lock half the country up for it. Really hope he gets off with this and the state cop on a re-form this law. Granny state strikes again.

sparkling sea

As said earlier the 2006 act was rushed through. The chance that teenagers could be prosecuted under this Act was discussed by the DPP and the committee and it was suggested that, that would be outside the spirit of the legislation. It was also suggested that this Act would not be used as a stick to beat "courting couples" with.

The sociol policy aspect of the law is just as important when deciding on how you implement the law as the actual legislation itself, so the natural experimention of teenagers is not being allowed for.

This legislation is reflection of the constitutional and societal status of both men and women in Ireland and the issue of equality needs to be addressed urgently.

syklops

cashel girl wrote: »

i cant get my head aroud this- 15yr old boy can get 5yrs for consensual sex with a 14yr old girl

yet a priest in wicklow was sentenced to 3yrs with the last 12months suspended for sexually abusing an altar boy. also had more than 20 people report abuse against him.

I heard both of these news items in the same programme, and the news reader obviously noticed the distinction in the reporting. A priest got 3 years with the last 12 months suspended for raping over 20 boys. A 15 year old could get 5 years for having sex with a girl one year his junior.

If this happens then I will take to the streets and I will invite others to join me.

Porkpie

I think there is this misguided assumption that the guy was gagging for it and the girl just caved in to pressure. Some would imagine that that the female is the shy vulnerable one. How do we know that the girl wasn't demanding it herself? I can't understand how the boy is perceived as being the one at fault. The sex was consensual for God's sake. I feel really sorry for that lad.

This news just makes me angry at our ridiculous laws.

sparkling sea

Girls aged 14, 15, 16 and 17 are having babies in this country. When they visit maternity hospitals some see a social worker who will become aware that some of these girls have had sex with there boyfriends and these boys have therefore committed the offence of rape - consent is not a defence. Common sense dictates that these so called "rapes" are not reported by social workers because in this case the law is an ass.

The law seems to be applied because parents have enough clout to put pressure on the DPP or they know someone with enough clout who can apply such pressure.

The arguement that the law is the law is a nonsense in the case of young couples. The application of this law appears to have more to do with what appears to be a corrupt system rather than what is best for the girl, the boy and society at large.
These are public prosecutions by the state on behalf on the people of this state, but how many people would actually want this done in there name - a very small minority I would think.
As well as the societal cost the taxpayer is also bearing a finanical cost for sloppy legislation which can destroy lives by turning both the boys and girls and possible other family memebers into victims.

sparkling sea

syklops wrote: »

If this happens then I will take to the streets and I will invite others to join me.

I sure if the case is high lighted properly amny will join you - I definitely would

Jesus Juice

That really is sickening.

It surely cant be allowed happen!

sparkling sea

If you think this is wrong, please do something. Email you TD's and the Dept of Justice, let them know that you think this is wrong and you want the legislation changed. Its the only way they will know how people feel about this legislation

Moomoo1

Porkpie wrote: »

I think there is this misguided assumption that the guy was gagging for it and the girl just caved in to pressure. Some would imagine that that the female is the shy vulnerable one. How do we know that the girl wasn't demanding it herself? I can't understand how the boy is perceived as being the one at fault. The sex was consensual for God's sake. I feel really sorry for that lad.

This news just makes me angry at our ridiculous laws.

I can see why they did it - some research states that in up to 20% cases of teenage pregnancy the girl is either forced or talked into having sex whilst not actually wanting to, since at that age women aren't yet on guard against unwanted advances as much as in adulthood. But surely instead of jailing people at random they should educate girls more...

sparkling sea

daveyboy_1ie wrote: »

Its a tricky one alright, as the law is the law, it does not depend on emotions. What the defence here is saying is, that because the law is discriminatory it should be changed to make it less so. However the two offences do not cancel each other out. it won't be a case of 'ok you raped her and she raped you so your quits ok? now go on and live your lives'.

Although I agree 100% its unfair on the guy in this case the alternative is changing a law designed to protect young children from predatory guys over the consensual age. I cannot see a justifiable way around it as this law cannot be change din any way to the detriment of young children. At best, if there is such a thing, is the both of them being convicted which is hardly a nice ending as both their lives would be destroyed, instead of just his.

I don't think the law will be changed to 'having sex with anyone under consensual age is rape, unless you are under the age of consent yourself'. i am no expert though, maybe it can but doubt it.

The K case, where a jury found a 20-year-old not guilty under the 2006 Act due to his mistaken belief that a 13-year-old with whom he had sex was over 17, in my opinion highlights the need to reform our law. A defendant's subjective claim of such belief constitutes the defence and because of this sexual predators of any age can be granted impunity to have intercourse with young teenagers unless the use of force or coercion constitutes rape.
This legislation is not serving the purpose it was intended too and further it is criminalising young men who in the majority of peoples reality have not committed a crime.

This is a serious issue and the legislator needs to give it the time and effort it needs