Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

corktina wrote: »

Well Id actually like to see it re-open and hope provision will be made for it if the circumstances are right. Currently they arent, but they ARE for a Greenway

Well yes Corky as always said in the best of all possible worlds. The Greenway from Claremorris to Collooney (71 km) would cost about 7 million to put in place and protect the alignment for ever, and yes who knows in the dim and distant future when our grandchildren have no oil left....but electric cars will be well and truly in place by then....a railway might be reconsidered again...

As for Athenry - Tuam - Claremorris - not sure of the distance about the same again probably less, so a greenway for the whole distance at about 11 million protects the alignment (saving money on legal fees in the future), gives us a leisure facility that will generate tourism revenue, make peoples healthier, lessen the risk of pedestrian/cycling road accidents; (this in itself is a significant cost saving) and who knows the people may end up deciding its a better use of the alignment - and the "demand" for a railway will disappear.

The parallel greenway then remains an option to install if they decide to put the railway back as the land will remain in ownership of the rail authority/department of transport.

Is all this asking too much?

corktina

No indeed, €7 million is a tiny sum compared to the returns expected in terms of tourist spin-offs. Is there a station at Colooney still? It would seem sensible to build one if there isnt as the Greenway really needs to go from somewhere to somewhere.

A sound investment in tourism which is nearly all we have to offer now..

rainbowdash

There are much better routes for a greenway in the country than Claremorris - Coloooney which would only be competing with the vastly superior Achill one. The Colooney line just goes through open fields for the most part.

The Cliften or Dingle lines would make far more sense, and if an Irish Rail owned line is to be considered then Midleton - Youghal, Waterford - Rosslare or the fenit branch would be more obvious.

LXFlyer

bk wrote: »

Most of my family and friends seem to be doing it in 2h 20mins, obviously it depends on where you are going to and from and at what time.

On the other hand, it is door to door. You would have to add your time to get too and from the station for a fair comparison.



2hr 48min is the average time of all the train services. Most are either 2hr 45 or 2hr 50, only one a day is 2hr 30min and in my experience it never achieves this, usually about 2hr 38min on that train.

For me it is about 2hr 30min door to door by car (which I don't own, so I normally take the train, but the odd time I've done it in friends/family car).

Door to door by train is about 4hr 15min for me:

- 1 hour to get to Hueston and leave time to be there early.
- 2hr 48min on train.
- 30 mins to get home in Cork.

Of course that will differ from person to person.

There are actually 3 trains per day that have the faster times:
0615 Cork-Heuston (2 hours 30 minutes - 2 stops)
0730 Cork-Heuston (2 hours 35 minutes - 3 stops)
1700 Heuston-Cork (2 hours 30 minutes - 2 stops)

My own feeling is that the Dublin/Cork line needs a total recast in the timetable to have a clockface service:

Bi-hourly fasts serving Thurles, Limerick Junction, Mallow and Cork

Bi-hourly stopping services calling at Portlaoise (taking a connection off a stopping service from Heuston), and then all stations to Cork, although Ballybrophy could probably be served more occasionally).

Peak expresses calling at Limerick Junction (connections to Limerick/Waterford), Mallow and Cork only.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

There are actually 3 trains per day that have the faster times:

Yet three take 2:55 and one takes 2:58. The average is actually 2:48, I did the maths.

Yes I agree the timetable needs to be improved, but it will do little to improve passenger numbers as it is still far slower then the door to door time by car, which is also cheaper.

LXFlyer

The three that take the 2:55/2:58 time stop at virtually every station.

Hence my comment on recasting the timetable.

bk

lxflyer wrote: »

The three that take the 2:55/2:58 time stop at virtually every station.

Hence my comment on recasting the timetable.

But it makes a certain degree of sense to Irish Rail.

Even if you get the time of more trains down to 2:45 or even 2:30, it is still slower then the door to door time by car for most people, so you aren't going to gain many, if any, extra passengers.

But now you have to put on a stopping service for those stations you aren't covering, so more cost, for little benefit for IR.

It is an example of being stuck between a rock and a hard place that Irish Rail finds itself trapped in.

corktina

exactly. Their ambition of sub 2 hour times to Cork seems unobtainable in the current investment climate, and without that they will keep losing passengers to the Motorway

westtip

rainbowdash wrote: »

There are much better routes for a greenway in the country than Claremorris - Coloooney which would only be competing with the vastly superior Achill one. The Colooney line just goes through open fields for the most part.

The Cliften or Dingle lines would make far more sense, and if an Irish Rail owned line is to be considered then Midleton - Youghal, Waterford - Rosslare or the fenit branch would be more obvious.

Oh contraire - if you walk this line it is very peaceful and serene country side and will provide the beginnings of a back bone linking donegal with Kerry - and yes linking with and complimenting (not competing) with Great Western Greenway - take a look at the Government policy on aiming to build a national cycle network - this line fits the bill perfectly and is it in the main intact and could be done quickly and for relatively little cost. The clifden line is already earmarked for greenway treatment - the collooney claremorris route passes knock airport - a good point to start cycling holidays on rented bikes (more revenue for local businesses), and it can be accessed by rail (if you can get your bike on the train at Collooney and Claremorris, and it will provide a link between the Great Western Greenway and the proposal to greenway the Sligo Leitrim Railway - don't see it in isolation as somethign that will take tourists away from the Great Western Greenway - it will help to build the whole cycling and long distant walkign tourism in Ireland, so its not a matter of one piece of old rail line being more suitable than any other - its a matter of how they fit into an entire network of greenways across the west of Ireland an indeed the whole country.

westtip

corktina wrote: »

No indeed, €7 million is a tiny sum compared to the returns expected in terms of tourist spin-offs. Is there a station at Colooney still? It would seem sensible to build one if there isnt as the Greenway really needs to go from somewhere to somewhere.

A sound investment in tourism which is nearly all we have to offer now..

Yes there is its the last stop on the line before Sligo. There are other fabulous acces points like the yeats county hotel at Curry on the N17 - big car park and an owner who fully supports the greenway idea as the line literally runs through his beer garden at the back of the hotel. Plus all he stations at places like Charlestown and Kiltimagh. Re going from somewhere to somewhere the objective would be to link in with a greenway being mooted from Claremorris to Castlebar and to link in with the great Western greenway - this would make a fabulous few days cycling from Collooney to Achill and back. All we need is imagination and drive from our local politicians to make it happen now we know the WRC is a dead duck (always was on this northern section but we knew that several years ago on this thread and its predecessor).

trail man

http://boards.ie/tre/2056478742

Happy New Year !

It is great that we can bring such good news in the first post of the year. Following negotiations CIE have given Kerry County Council the authority to act on their behalf in dealing with the redevelopment of the line and any issues that may arise.

As you may be aware clearance work on the line began in late 2010 but later stalled. These works were required to allow Kerry County Council’s engineers to survey the line in order to prepare plans for the line.

Since then Kerry County Council were awaiting permission from CIE to act on their behalf.

We have been informed that Kerry County Council staff are now progressing plans for the line.

Hopefully it will not be long before we see this amenity come to fruition !

(Copied from the thread title's blog on this subject for discussion here)


Thanks from: kingdumb

19-01-2012, 09:02 #2
kingdumb

That's great news alright Amadain, let hope there is some action on it soon, apparently is in not a huge job, so if all goes according to planned if it could quite possibly be open for the summer.

Also just to let you know that there is a thread about this already

MODS can you merge them ?



19-01-2012, 12:22 #3
theaceofspies

It is critical that the "authority" given to the council will stand up in a court of law otherwise the project will stall again. it will be a great facility for North Kerry if/when it is completed.

westtip

Trailman thats good news - more tired hungry tourists for kerry - in the meantim sligo and mayou councillors will continue to sit on the Western inter county railway committee chuntering on about the vital piece of infrastructure that the west demands to carry 8 passengers per train from Claremorris to Athenry......and all the cycling tourists will head off to places they can cycle and enjoy the countryside in safety and spedn their money on the Great Western Greenway and Great Southern Trail

OUr coucnillors will sit there dumbfounded when every year they see this exodus from north west tourism.

-Chris-

Posts cleaned up. Please report any posts you have an issue with and allow the Mods to deal with it.

dermo88

Dedicated to the supporters of the Western Rail Corridor

With respect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFZNL4jSNwk

ENJOY

-Chris-

dermo88 wrote: »

Dedicated to the supporters of the Western Rail Corridor

With respect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFZNL4jSNwk

ENJOY

dermo88 banned for a week for Trolling.

serfboard

Obviously the pisspoor numbers on Galway->Limerick have prompted WOT to look for a knight in shining armour - the fact that they think the crowd who are successfully delivering Luas will touch this with a bargepole is laughable.

POPULATION DENSITIES PEOPLE!

Galway Bay FM wrote:

CALL FOR REVIEW OF OPERATIONS ON GALWAY TO LIMERICK LINE

West on track, the lobby group behind the Western rail corridor, is calling for a review of operations on the Galway to Limerick line.

The group wants the Minister of Transport Leo Varadker to examine the case for tendering the route to operators such as the RPA, the group behind the Luas.

They claim that if Iarnród Eireann were to operate the same intercity service on the Galway to Limerick line as the Dublin to Cork line, services between Galway and Limerick would take just over an hour instead of the current two.

Last November, the Government announced that the WRC was one of the major capital projects that will be deferred indefinitely.

The only part of the project which will continue is the construction of stations at Oranmore and Crusheen on the Ennis to Athenry line.

However, work has yet to begin at Crusheen as Iarnrod Eireann continues negotiations with a third party over funding contributions.

The second phase of the project from Athenry to Tuam, and the third phase to Claremorris, have all been deferred as part of the Capital Investment Programme from 2012 to 2016.

foggy_lad

They claim that if Iarnród Eireann were to operate the same intercity service on the Galway to Limerick line as the Dublin to Cork line, services between Galway and Limerick would take just over an hour instead of the current two.

They are just a bunch of domestic and foreign train-spotters who want an even bigger and better train on what they see as their own private train set! How on earth do they see a 201 drawing 8 carriages being faster on that old alignment than the nice 2/3 car sets that currently use it? The loco-hauled train will have less traction pulling away and stopping in stations and will be governed by the same speed restrictions concerning the many many level crossings as well as other restricted areas.

I do agree though that there should be an hourly service between the two cities because the trains are always full to capacity!

corktina

that is so crass that it is almost beyond belief!

In the queue for uprating to an hourly interval service (which I assume is what they are suggesting) they are WAAAY down the running. Dublin to Belfast doesnt get that Im thinking.

As for the servic e being reduced to a duration of an hour, without ripping it all up and building it anew it isnt physiaclly possible

Is this the last knockings of a defeated ideolgy? ....

Transportuser09

I agree, asking for an hourly service seems like a joke when only one of the Dublin routes has one. If Galway-Dublin cant justify one why do they think the WRC can? When the line opened two years ago I thought it best to wait and see how it would perform in time. It seems to have been a disappointment. I can admit that. But I'm afraid WOT arent, and they are only their cause damage by making claims like that above. Maybe it would have been better to have done Tuam-Athenry first, that might have had a good commuter market. But I think the damage has been done.

dowlingm

Improvements to Galway-Athenry (some additional double track, Oranmore station ASAP) and Ennis-Limerick (LC automation, speed improvements east of Cratloe) would benefit the WRC by adding path potentials while improving Galway -Dublin and Ennis-Limerick service at the same time. WoT, tone deaf to reality as they are, would call for double track Tuam-Ennis before they would concern themselves with the bigger picture.

VIA Rail have an interesting system where some services only call at small stations if the boarding or alighting seat is booked x hours before. If that was implemented on IE I'd say it would help with on-time performance on routes like WRC and Limerick J-Waterford even if only one station was skipped on a given service to gain 1-2 minutes acceleration/stop/deceleration. As a primarily locohaul operator it's more of an issue for VIA to minimise unnecessary stops on their routes.

For instance, the 0940 on 26 Jan would have been non-stop Athenry-Gort. The 1355 Limerick Junction to Waterford would have made all stops but only just!

yer man!

Athenry-Tuam would have been a better option as it takes much longer to get into Galway via car in the morning compared to what the train would take. The northern route would have been a third of the price of the southern route as the trackbed is thought to be in very good condition and little realignment is needed, it would also have made more money from the beginning. The Limerick route isn't well thought out, stations are in places where there is nobody living, ardrahan has two bars and nothing else for example. I know someone who does live near Gort and through the taxsaver ticket he gets to Galway return for €5 return everyday, way cheaper than what the car would take and he gets in for 9am. These things aren't advertised, people just assume it's much too slow and expensive but in some cases it's not a bad service, you just have to search really hard to get information.

rainbowdash

yer man! wrote: »

Athenry-Tuam would have been a better option as it takes much longer to get into Galway via car in the morning compared to what the train would take. The northern route would have been a third of the price of the southern route as the trackbed is thought to be in very good condition and little realignment is needed, it would also have made more money from the beginning. The Limerick route isn't well thought out, stations are in places where there is nobody living, ardrahan has two bars and nothing else for example. I know someone who does live near Gort and through the taxsaver ticket he gets to Galway return for €5 return everyday, way cheaper than what the car would take and he gets in for 9am. These things aren't advertised, people just assume it's much too slow and expensive but in some cases it's not a bad service, you just have to search really hard to get information.

The Athenry - Tuam section was let go to weed by Irish Rail, complete revamp was and is needed. Despite the best efforts of Irish Rail the Ennis - Atherny section was still able to run trains along it up until the start of the relay.

Only Gort, Sixmilebridge and Oranmore should have been considered as stations, Crusheen, Ardrahan and Craughwell should only have been considered after 1000 house were occupied within 1km of the station.

L1011

The visible-from-the-road parts of Athenry - Tuam *looks* in surprisingly good condition to the untrained eye, better than Ennis-Athenry ever did.

I believe its disconnected at Athenry but if it wasn't it'd be well worth strimming it and trying to get EM50 or the weed sprayer down it...

dowlingm

If the unlikely scenario unfolded that Tuam-Athenry was to reopen you'd almost certainly need logs traffic from Castlegrove Forest to help with the viability but there's the issue of when such trains would run since track capacity is tight now on all the routing options between Athenry and Waterford. Of course Ardrahan was supposed to be a logs source too... funny how that never came to anything.

EDIT: any such scenario would probably be buried by a completed M17/18 and Galway Outer Bypass which you'd have to think would place Galway-Athenry-Tuam at roughly the same relative convenience as Nenagh by rail vs M7.

westtip

serfboard wrote: »

Obviously the pisspoor numbers on Galway->Limerick have prompted WOT to look for a knight in shining armour - the fact that they think the crowd who are successfully delivering Luas will touch this with a bargepole is laughable.

POPULATION DENSITIES PEOPLE!

Look folks this clutching at straws comes from the same people who said this below . this group is no longer credible and more to the point is no longer been listened too. The argument has been lost. LV will file this request in the to be sent to the Monster Raving Loony Party Policy group for consideration - just read this quote below about WOTs view of the impact of the WRC.

West on Track July 20th 2009 The Western Rail Corridor has already created 400 jobs in the construction phase and will deliver many thousands of jobs in private sector companies, once operational.!

Victor

foggy_lad wrote: »

I do agree though that there should be an hourly service between the two cities because the trains are always full to capacity!

They are looking for a one hour journey time, not an hourly frequency or 8-carriage trains.

That would be about 73mph. The people of Cork would love to consistently get to Dublin in 2h35 or quicker.

westtip

Victor wrote: »

They are looking for a one hour journey time, not an hourly frequency or 8-carriage trains.

That would be about 73mph. The people of Cork would love to consistently get to Dublin in 2h35 or quicker.

It will never happen because as we have all said - the whole thing was about re-opening the old line - this was always its achilles heel, because the old alignment would never deliver an inter-city service, its physically impossible. The Athenry Turn around in itself will always take nearly ten minutes out of the schedule, one presumes the "express" service being called for will stop at least at Gort - cutting out Ardrahan and Craughwell will save what 5/6 minutes? The average spees on this line will never get to 73 mph as Victor has quite rightly pointed out. The speed of these trains has nothing to do with the operator - in fact the people to blame for the slow speed of this service are those that demanded the re-opening of the line, because the southern loop away from Athenry was never contemplated and the whole idea of a rail line from Galway to Limerick should not have ever been based on re-opening the old line. If there were any justification for it - it was on the basis of a route that went Limerick - Ennis- Shannon Airport - Gort - Galway. To promote a new rail line along a new route between two moderately sized cities on the western fringes of Europe, which have very few commercial or cultural ties - at a time when land costs to build such a route would have been ridiculous was of course never a runner, but re-opening an old line - along a route which required no land purchase was always a compromise that was done to placate a rather vociferous group that simply wouldn't go away - they have achieved what is commonly known as a complete white elephant - and have only themselves to blame for it - Many have said it many times - We told you so!

corktina

a vision of the future perhaps?

(I stole this ..it's Westtips desktop picture... :-)

dowlingm

westtip wrote: »

The Athenry Turn around in itself will always take nearly ten minutes out of the schedule

Can you expand on this? Only three minutes is allowed in the schedule on the 0620 southbound - add acceleration/deceleration and you still only get 5 or 6.

Jehuty42

dowlingm wrote: »

Can you expand on this? Only three minutes is allowed in the schedule on the 0620 southbound - add acceleration/deceleration and you still only get 5 or 6.

I think there's a 5 or 10 speed restriction on the curve into the station from the WRC that slows the turnaround.