Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Hungerford

foggy_lad wrote: »

Biel/Bienne and Lausanne are much larger areas than Limerick and Galway and Lausanne is part of a major urban area which includes geneva.

Not really. The entire canton of Biel/Bienne has a population which is only around 15,000 people greater than Galway city. Meanwhile, Lausanne is around 40 miles from Geneva - they aren't even in the same canton. There isn't really any real major urban area in Switzerland besides the cities - it's striking how quickly you end up in the countryside once you leave them.

dowlingm

Hungerford wrote: »

Not really. The entire canton of Biel/Bienne has a population which is only around 15,000 people greater than Galway city. Meanwhile, Lausanne is around 40 miles from Geneva - they aren't even in the same canton. There isn't really any real major urban area in Switzerland besides the cities - it's striking how quickly you end up in the countryside once you leave them.

What, no bungalow bliss? no one-off housing heaven? no paradisical cookie-cutter monster scale housing estates in villages?

Hotblack Desiato

Isn't it their right as Swiss people to build whatever they like on their land? Are they living in some sort of Zurich-4 dictatorship?

Hotblack Desiato

Hungerford wrote: »

Not really. The entire canton of Biel/Bienne has a population which is only around 15,000 people greater than Galway city. Meanwhile, Lausanne is around 40 miles from Geneva - they aren't even in the same canton. There isn't really any real major urban area in Switzerland besides the cities - it's striking how quickly you end up in the countryside once you leave them.

You hit the nail on the head. Entirely unintentionally, I suspect.

westtip

ninja900 wrote: »

Isn't it their right as Swiss people to build whatever they like on their land? Are they living in some sort of Zurich-4 dictatorship?

No I think they are living in a planned civilised modern state, in which the actions you take - for example trying to build anything you want on "your land", which you only borrow by the way for your lifetime, is answerable and subject to the rules that govern this planned civilised modern state.

Of course there is the option of urban sprawl chaos, bungalow blitz with Sh*tholes in every back garden seeping into the rural water table, linear development along main roads, and as you say having the right to do whatever you want on "my land". Scatterings of super size mansions that in years to come will be unsaleable (if not already) containing one or two elderly people - having raised their two children in a mansion they can no longer heat and reying on the rural bus transport system to get them to bingo.... the future of rural ireland....maybe how knows but this is one possible fallout of our chaotic planning.

Of course in relation to the WRC this right to do what you want on "my land" now includes the steady erosion of the corridor with squatting rights along the route as there is more and more encroachment with landowners parallel to the corridor nicking a bit here and there. So in a way it is our chaotic attitude to planning and enforcements that is going to ultimately scupper the WRC. How ironic is that?

bk

Solair wrote: »

The Cork-Dublin service is actually used quite heavily and does resemble a proper InterCity service.

To be honest, even Cork-Dublin is in serious trouble IMO.

As a regular user on the line (Corkonian living in Dublin), it is very noticeable the reduction in passengers on even busy peak time services like Friday at 5pm from Dublin.

Many of my friends who use to take the train to Cork, all drive now as it is significantly faster and cheaper then by train.

Once someone starts a direct non-stop bus service between Cork and Dublin, this train service could be in serious trouble.

Which shows how ridiculous it is building, opening and operating such a loss making service like the WRC when even your premier lines are in trouble.

westtip

Whats the drivetime now Dublin Cork - compared to the train time?

corktina

The AA say 2 hr 51 minutes. I can always do it quicker than they say though without busting the limit.

train is about 2 hrs 25 i think.

roundymac

Last april I left Balbriggan at 15.40 and I was at the Jack Lynch tunnel for 18.30. I was driving a 99C Passat, so I can assure you I was not speeding in any way. Averaged 70mph the whole way.

corktina

if you averaged 70 mph you would do it it quicker than that...do you mean you were crusing at about 70 mph?

roundymac

Yes, crusing is what I ment to say.:rolleyes:

corktina

in all likely hood then your 70 on your speedo is actually about 64 making you 11 mph under the limit so you could have bettered your time by a good bit which would make the actual time about the same as the train I guess(my maths wont let me guessimate any closer than that :-)

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

The AA say 2 hr 51 minutes. I can always do it quicker than they say though without busting the limit.

train is about 2 hrs 25 i think.

Fastest train time is 2hours 45minutes and slowest is 2hours 58minutes.

corktina

my bad! so car is about the same time or faster than the train

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

my bad! so car is about the same time or faster than the train

As well as being cheaper and more comfortable and flexible

Hungerford

dowlingm wrote: »

What, no bungalow bliss? no one-off housing heaven? no paradisical cookie-cutter monster scale housing estates in villages?

Not that I have noticed. People outside the cities tend to live in small towns and villages. The only once-off settlements you see are farmhouses.

I think there are a few transport-related factors which have prevent urban sprawl there:

* People in the cities tend to live in apartments, meaning that the urban population is concentrated in a smaller area.

* Public transport is excellent and even the smallest places have a decent bus service to the nearest large town. This discourages car ownership, meaning that more people remain within the centre of each settlement.

* Industry and employment are more evenly spread around their country. Most places have medium-sized industries such as the local sawmill. Most seem to be rail-connected which seems to reduce the disadvantage of being based outside a major urban hub.

bk

corktina wrote: »

The AA say 2 hr 51 minutes. I can always do it quicker than they say though without busting the limit.

Most of my family and friends seem to be doing it in 2h 20mins, obviously it depends on where you are going to and from and at what time.

On the other hand, it is door to door. You would have to add your time to get too and from the station for a fair comparison.

corktina wrote: »

train is about 2 hrs 25 i think.

2hr 48min is the average time of all the train services. Most are either 2hr 45 or 2hr 50, only one a day is 2hr 30min and in my experience it never achieves this, usually about 2hr 38min on that train.

For me it is about 2hr 30min door to door by car (which I don't own, so I normally take the train, but the odd time I've done it in friends/family car).

Door to door by train is about 4hr 15min for me:

- 1 hour to get to Hueston and leave time to be there early.
- 2hr 48min on train.
- 30 mins to get home in Cork.

Of course that will differ from person to person.

corktina

the AAs time was from Heuston to Cork City Centre.

Jehuty42

Hungerford wrote: »

Not that I have noticed. People outside the cities tend to live in small towns and villages. The only once-off settlements you see are farmhouses.

I think there are a few transport-related factors which have prevent urban sprawl there:

* People in the cities tend to live in apartments, meaning that the urban population is concentrated in a smaller area.

* Public transport is excellent and even the smallest places have a decent bus service to the nearest large town. This discourages car ownership, meaning that more people remain within the centre of each settlement.

* Industry and employment are more evenly spread around their country. Most places have medium-sized industries such as the local sawmill. Most seem to be rail-connected which seems to reduce the disadvantage of being based outside a major urban hub.

So it's nothing like Ireland, then?

yer man!

Open to correction here but isn't the limerick - Galway line restricted to 80km/h? the line was running at 100km/h when it was first built, now i'm sure this is because of the massive amount of level crossings, but is there no way they can get around this to get the speed up a bit? Now I'm a student who lives and studies in Galway so personally I have no reason to go to Limerick at all but I know quite a lot of people from Limerick who study in Galway. A lot of them didn't even realise there was a train running between the two cities, of the ones that did know, they found it too expensive compared to the bus. If the price was the same as the bus they would seriously consider it as the bus is really uncomfortable and has no sockets for laptops (nearly all of them have internet dongles so no wifi isn't a major factor). I know quite a lot of people also that would live around the gort, ardrahan stations, they use the bus, again because of price. Not many people know that they can also get an awful lot of money off ticket prices through the taxsaver thing because Irishrail are so unclear. There is literally no information online on travelling this line, prices, commuter tickets or parking charges. Irishrail do not make it easy for commuters to use this line.

highlydebased

yer man! wrote: »

Open to correction here but isn't the limerick - Galway line restricted to 80km/h? the line was running at 100km/h when it was first built, now i'm sure this is because of the massive amount of level crossings, but is there no way they can get around this to get the speed up a bit? Now I'm a student who lives and studies in Galway so personally I have no reason to go to Limerick at all but I know quite a lot of people from Limerick who study in Galway. A lot of them didn't even realise there was a train running between the two cities, of the ones that did know, they found it too expensive compared to the bus. If the price was the same as the bus they would seriously consider it as the bus is really uncomfortable and has no sockets for laptops (nearly all of them have internet dongles so no wifi isn't a major factor). I know quite a lot of people also that would live around the gort, ardrahan stations, they use the bus, again because of price. Not many people know that they can also get an awful lot of money off ticket prices through the taxsaver thing because Irishrail are so unclear. There is literally no information online on travelling this line, prices, commuter tickets or parking charges. Irishrail do not make it easy for commuters to use this line.

Railways in Ireland work in miles FYI.

I can't find the network statement but AFAIK it is 50mph on the WRC and less in places.

flyingsnail

highlydebased wrote: »

Railways in Ireland work in miles FYI.

I can't find the network statement but AFAIK it is 50mph on the WRC and less in places.

According to the network statement Ennis to Athenry maximum speed limit is 60mph

eth0

yer man! wrote: »

Irishrail do not make it easy for commuters to use this line.

That must mean they want to already close it.

You see someone gets a big bonus if theyclose a line like Waterford-Rosslare.

They want to extract as much money as possible from the govt by building a line, slowly running it into the sh1t, run feck all useful trains on it and then close due to lack of use.

Hotblack Desiato

It's been said here on many occasions that IE didn't want to reopen the WRC in the first place, and why would they when it would never cover its operating costs never mind the capital costs.

Judgement Day

Of course IE didn't want to reopen the WRC - it was due to political pressure but then again Limerick/Ennis only came about due to political pressure. As I overheard a very senior - now retired - CIE manager say 'if they were the building railways today they wouldn't build any in Ireland' - with this mindset is it any wonder things are in their current state? :rolleyes:

dowlingm

flyingsnail wrote: »

According to the network statement Ennis to Athenry maximum speed limit is 60mph

That's the max but there are still some SRs plus what are probably uneconomic counterpeak stops at places like Ardrahan and the need to timetable crossing with other trains at Ennis, Gort and Athenry.

On top of that the Ennis-Limerick segment is only 50 - there's a view that that is enough to be competitive with the bus over that distance for that commuter segment but as a significant part of the Limerick-Galway run it makes a bigger difference. A passing loop at Sixmilebridge to give a bit more timetable flexibility would be nice too.

As it stands the Limerick-Athenry section is 60 miles and the FASTEST time is 1h34m on a week day. That's a journey speed of 38mph between those points. The "commuter service" into Limerick takes 1h58 ex Athenry - just north of 30mph journey speed over the WRC.

DDigital

eth0 wrote: »

That must mean they want to already close it.

You see someone gets a big bonus if theyclose a line like Waterford-Rosslare.

They want to extract as much money as possible from the govt by building a line, slowly running it into the sh1t, run feck all useful trains on it and then close due to lack of use.

The WRC is probably the most publicised line in Ireland. Irish Rail could reinvent themselves as carbon copies of the best railway operators in the world and they still couldn't stack up the figures on this line. It was a bad idea and we need to accept that.

DDigital

Judgement Day wrote: »

Of course IE didn't want to reopen the WRC - it was due to political pressure but then again Limerick/Ennis only came about due to political pressure. As I overheard a very senior - now retired - CIE manager say 'if they were the building railways today they wouldn't build any in Ireland' - with this mindset is it any wonder things are in their current state? :rolleyes:

I'm no fan of CIE, but this "CIE manager" was actually right. Ireland is one of the most unsuited countries for a rail network that I can think of. Small country, low population and density, developed road network, economically incapable of subsidising a rail network. I won't go on.

westtip

DDigital wrote: »

The WRC is probably the most publicised line in Ireland. Irish Rail could reinvent themselves as carbon copies of the best railway operators in the world and they still couldn't stack up the figures on this line. It was a bad idea and we need to accept that.

absolutely Derek, unfortunately we still have a pressure group that claims to speak on behalf of the west, but this is changing, there is growing support for the long argued case by myself for a greenway on this line, and believe me the message is getting through to the right people. Within three years I confidently predict there will be a greenway on at least part of the claremorris collooney section - then the dominos will fall. Believe me, this idea will then spread down to the Claremorris - Athenry section, the line north of Athenry will NEVER see a train run on it again. I can assure you of that.

corktina

Well Id actually like to see it re-open and hope provision will be made for it if the circumstances are right. Currently they arent, but they ARE for a Greenway