Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

eastwest

JCX BXC wrote: »

Again, once the WRC becomes a greenway I don't buy for even a second that returning to a railway will ever be an option, the users of the greenway simply won't allow it.

The ownership of the route stays with Irish rail. The greenway users will have no say whatsoever in any decision to reinstate a railway. Irish Rail only gives licenses to government or local authorities for greenway development, not to greenway users.

marno21

eastwest wrote: »

The ownership of the route stays with Irish rail. The greenway users will have no say whatsoever in any decision to reinstate a railway. Irish Rail only gives licenses to government or local authorities for greenway development, not to greenway users.

Yes but there would be objections by locals and the opening of the railway might be canned politically. Also, plenty of railways mightn't pass the feasibility study stage given the loss incurred in shutting down the greenway to shuttle a few OAPs around.

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

The ownership of the route stays with Irish rail. The greenway users will have no say whatsoever in any decision to reinstate a railway. Irish Rail only gives licenses to government or local authorities for greenway development, not to greenway users.

Yes but there would be objections by locals and the opening of the railway might be canned politically. Also, plenty of railways mightn't pass the feasibility study stage given the loss incurred in shutting down the greenway to shuttle a few OAPs around.

No more railways will be opened unless there is a business case for them, and I don't mean a wishful thinking fudge such as is proposed for the wrc. No matter what kind of looney government we get in the future, the lessons of ennis athenry loom large, and the days when we thought that we were the world's leading economy are long gone. We will simply no longer get away with throwing scarce funds at building ceaucescu style grand schemes to suit the political ambitions of some populist eejit.
However if in the future a case did emerge for rebuilding athenry Tuam for instance, the success and popularity of the greenway would not stop this from happening since the land belongs to Irish Rail. Any such rebuild would be done in sections, and a new greenway would be built alongside the route, by acquiring additional land if necessary to widen the alignment. The sections of Greenway under construction would be temporarily diverted to roadways or temporary paths, as per normal traffic management methods. I recall several miles of the grand union towpath being diverted a few years back during electricity cabling work, and nobody complained.
Politicians prefer lack of progress to doing anything where there are differing points of view, therefore the future for the wrc is the dame as the present. In waterford, while there was some objection by nine councillors and a few landowners who spotted a chance to milk a few quid from the public purse, the majority was in favour of the greenway and the smarter politicians saw which way the wind was blowing and supported the project.
The west isn't blessed with the same proportion of smarts among the public representatives; Tuam isn't Dungarvan, and will never be with the current crop in place.

marno21

I think there was definitely a case for a railway link between Galway and Limerick, as there is between Limerick and Cork. If we are to grow these cities like we plan to do in the new National Planning Framework, having them linked makes sense.

Unfortunately, a new alignment should've been used between Ennis and Galway, especially considering the lack of major population centres bar Gort that would've required stations.

It would also be nice if you could get onward connections to places such as Waterford conveniently from Limerick...

Isambard

would be nice if you got a through service from Lim Junc, never mind Waterford!. When I used the line it was shown as a through service but when it all went quiet in Limerick Colbert I eventually twigged it wouldn't happen and had to change trains.

eastwest

marno21 wrote: »

I think there was definitely a case for a railway link between Galway and Limerick, as there is between Limerick and Cork. If we are to grow these cities like we plan to do in the new National Planning Framework, having them linked makes sense.

Unfortunately, a new alignment should've been used between Ennis and Galway, especially considering the lack of major population centres bar Gort that would've required stations.

It would also be nice if you could get onward connections to places such as Waterford conveniently from Limerick...

It might have worked on a new alignment, but the motorway would kill it off anyway.
Anyone who remembers the old rail line from Athens to corinth -- twisting and painfully slow, shades of wrc -- will understand the issue. They sensibly decided not to go with the old route when spending eu funds, and built a new link parallel to the new motorway, but after a reasonably good start it failed anyway -- the motorway with flexible bus services carries most of the traffic now.
As for the old line, it is suffering from a bit of squatting at present and seems likely to be lost to public ownership eventually.
We never learn from others mistakes; we prefer to make our own.

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

I think there was definitely a case for a railway link between Galway and Limerick, as there is between Limerick and Cork. If we are to grow these cities like we plan to do in the new National Planning Framework, having them linked makes sense.

Unfortunately, a new alignment should've been used between Ennis and Galway, especially considering the lack of major population centres bar Gort that would've required stations.

It would also be nice if you could get onward connections to places such as Waterford conveniently from Limerick...

Would the price not be exorbitant to have built a different Ennis-Galway alignment? A large reason why the railway was rebuilt was because it could be done at a good cost per kilometre.

And yes, rather than dreaming on fantasies, it would be nice if we could utilise what we have first, for example, a direct train from Limerick to Waterford, or at least connections matching up! It's actually shocking (but quite telling) that that's not what's currently in existence.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

Would the price not be exorbitant to have built a different Ennis-Galway alignment? A large reason why the railway was rebuilt was because it could be done at a good cost per kilometre.

And yes, rather than dreaming on fantasies, it would be nice if we could utilise what we have first, for example, a direct train from Limerick to Waterford, or at least connections matching up! It's actually shocking (but quite telling) that that's not what's currently in existence.

Whilst the new alignment would have cost more, at lest it would be fit for purpose. When the new M18 opens (direct) bus services will be 45 minutes/1 hour faster.

Limerick-Waterford services on Sunday's to facilitate students/people returning to their place of work after the weekend would be a start. Services on that line are shocking taking everything into accounr

end of the road

eastwest wrote: »

It might have worked on a new alignment, but the motorway would kill it off anyway.

or maybe not assuming it was built to a competitive or faster speed with a congestion charge within the cities.

Anyone who remembers the old rail line from Athens to corinth -- twisting and painfully slow, shades of wrc -- will understand the issue. They sensibly decided not to go with the old route when spending eu funds, and built a new link parallel to the new motorway, but after a reasonably good start it failed anyway -- the motorway with flexible bus services carries most of the traffic now.

that line still seems to be open with an hourly train service. hardly failed unless you are talking about a different line? remember greece has gone through a horrific recession so it's not surprising there won't be huge demand for rail travel currently. it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the new rail line or that the so called flexible bus services are better (they will be cheep however)

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

It might have worked on a new alignment, but the motorway would kill it off anyway.

or maybe not assuming it was built to a competitive or faster speed with a congestion charge within the cities.

Anyone who remembers the old rail line from Athens to corinth -- twisting and painfully slow, shades of wrc -- will understand the issue. They sensibly decided not to go with the old route when spending eu funds, and built a new link parallel to the new motorway, but after a reasonably good start it failed anyway -- the motorway with flexible bus services carries most of the traffic now.

that line still seems to be open with an hourly train service. hardly failed unless you are talking about a different line? remember greece has gone through a horrific recession so it's not surprising there won't be huge demand for rail travel currently. it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the new rail line or that the so called flexible bus services are better (they will be cheep however)

The service is still running on athens-corinth, but there's nobody using it compared to the buses.
The bus services evolved to suit user needs, delivering people closer to their work etc. The trains connect to old stations that are no longer all that relevant in terms of location.

Stephen15

end of the road wrote: »

that line still seems to be open with an hourly train service. hardly failed unless you are talking about a different line? remember greece has gone through a horrific recession so it's not surprising there won't be huge demand for rail travel currently. it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the new rail line or that the so called flexible bus services are better (they will be cheep however)

Greek railways much like Irish railways are a bit of a joke by the sounds of things. I was reading a while ago that most of their staff are getting €60k+ a year. Anyway the entire Greek railway network has now been completely sold off by the goverment to Trenitalia despite much objection.

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

Unfortunately, a new alignment should've been used between Ennis and Galway, especially considering the lack of major population centres bar Gort that would've required stations.
.

This sentence sums up the whole failing of West on Track, which focussed on re-opening what is essentially 19th century infrastructure, with in built delays due to poor alignment and gradients and of course the Athenry stopover. The road lobby had the right idea, new roads on new alignments producing an efficient road system, not widening the old roads and still having every truck going through ballygobackwards; ok road widening has formed part of road strategy, but imagine if it had been the entire strategy. Yes a Galway Limerick railway line may have worked; but it needed to be on a new alignment from Ennis, to Shannon Airport, Gort and direct to Galway, this has been said many times over, but that was never going to happen as the whole WRC was a fudge to fob off the west with the idea it was getting investment. West on Track would never have been listened to if they had asked for a new alignment, it simply was never on the agenda; What it got was the equivalent of a patch on an old computer operating system, an elastoplast that cost a lot of money and hasn't worked. They (west on track) were sold a sop by a government with no fiscal responsibility; that kind of waste should never happen again, it probably will in other areas, but the opportunity to have a proper Galway- Shannon Airport-Limerick rail link has gone forever, and as for north of Athenry, once bitten twice shy.

Consonata

westtip wrote: »

They (west on track) were sold a sop by a government with no fiscal responsibility; that kind of waste should never happen again, it probably will in other areas, but the opportunity to have a proper Galway- Shannon Airport-Limerick rail link has gone forever, and as for north of Athenry, once bitten twice shy.

Never say never :pac:

eastwest

Consonata wrote: »

westtip wrote: »

They (west on track) were sold a sop by a government with no fiscal responsibility; that kind of waste should never happen again, it probably will in other areas, but the opportunity to have a proper Galway- Shannon Airport-Limerick rail link has gone forever, and as for north of Athenry, once bitten twice shy.

Never say never :pac:

If not forever, for our lifetimes if we're over sixteen.
And live to be a hundred.

westtip

marno21 wrote: »

Yes but there would be objections by locals and the opening of the railway might be canned politically. Also, plenty of railways mightn't pass the feasibility study stage given the loss incurred in shutting down the greenway to shuttle a few OAPs around.

There would also be objections from all the businesses and employees created as a result of the greenway being so successful:D
Not to mention existing businesses like shopkeepers, pub owners etc whose business levels will increase!

westtip

Lets just hope this is something Leo will stick to if he becomes leader and Taoiseach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kR1YDn9lM

"the western rail corridor was built for political reasons, it never stacked up on economic grounds or on transport policy grounds"

Consonata

westtip wrote: »

Lets just hope this is something Leo will stick to if he becomes leader and Taoiseach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kR1YDn9lM

"the western rail corridor was built for political reasons, it never stacked up on economic grounds or on transport policy grounds"

Don't expect him to do anything in transport. He was Minister for 4+ years and did nothing. All talk.

westtip

Consonata wrote: »

Don't expect him to do anything in transport. He was Minister for 4+ years and did nothing. All talk.

Well the first thing he might do is appoint a minister for transport.... because we don't seem to have one at the moment.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Consonata wrote: »

Don't expect him to do anything in transport. He was Minister for 4+ years and did nothing. All talk.

Well the first thing he might do is appoint a minister for transport.... because we don't seem to have one at the moment.

I'd say one of the first jobs awaiting a new taoiseach will be finding a hole to stick Ross into. Arts, culture and the gaeltacht sounds about right.

Del.Monte

eastwest wrote: »

I'd say one of the first jobs awaiting a new taoiseach will be finding a hole to stick Ross into. Arts, culture and the gaeltacht sounds about right.

Just sack him and be done with it.

Consonata

eastwest wrote: »

I'd say one of the first jobs awaiting a new taoiseach will be finding a hole to stick Ross into. Arts, culture and the gaeltacht sounds about right.

Thats on the presumption that FG have the best intentions when it comes to Transport.

Wouldn't be surprised if they are happy to have Ross in there to take all the flack, since they don't want to particularly do anything in that field.

n97 mini

Consonata wrote: »

Don't expect him to do anything in transport. He was Minister for 4+ years and did nothing. All talk.

Thought he instructed IE to open the PPT to passenger traffic?

Muckyboots

Meanwhile, back to topic, while we wait in vain for Sean Canney's promised report and have to listen to waffle and guff about mythical freight from join the dots merchants the WRC continues to crumble into the ground. Shameful.

http://connachttribune.ie/dark-days-quiet-man-station-761

Quackster

Hopefully plenty of folk living along the WRC were watching yesterday evening's Nationwide.

What a magnificent amenity the new Waterford greenway appears to be and it's great to see how well used it is and how many jobs it has created so quickly.

Here's hoping it's extended to Mallow sooner rather than later and its success provides the necessary impetus to get greenways rolling across the country, including on the WRC.

JCX BXC

The track between Mallow and Dungarvan is effectively gone, vast majority of it is farmland now. Will never be extended beyond Dungarvan.

eastwest

JCX BXC wrote: »

The track between Mallow and Dungarvan is effectively gone, vast majority of it is farmland now. Will never be extended beyond Dungarvan.

Once it's extended to Dublin on the Barrow way and grand canal, it will be logical to extend it towards Cork, so I'd say that West of dungarvan is already a plan.

Quackster

JCX BXC wrote: »

The track between Mallow and Dungarvan is effectively gone, vast majority of it is farmland now. Will never be extended beyond Dungarvan.

As is Farrenfore to Valentia but that's not an insurmountable obstacle!

Quackster

eastwest wrote: »

Once it's extended to Dublin on the Barrow way and grand canal, it will be logical to extend it towards Cork, so I'd say that West of dungarvan is already a plan.

The Youghal line would be out of the question for a number of reasons so routing it to Mallow would make the most sense.

Also having one end (or both if possible) of every greenway connect directly with the rail network world greatly facilitate end-to-end use, especially by tourists, and bolster patronage of the rail network at the same time.

eastwest

Quackster wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

Once it's extended to Dublin on the Barrow way and grand canal, it will be logical to extend it towards Cork, so I'd say that West of dungarvan is already a plan.

The Youghal line would be out of the question for a number of reasons so routing it to Mallow would make the most sense.

Also having one end (or both if possible) of every greenway connect directly with the rail network world greatly facilitate end-to-end use, especially by tourists, and bolster patronage of the rail network at the same time.

The aim will be to create a Dublin-Cork link I would think.

Muckyboots

Quackster wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

Once it's extended to Dublin on the Barrow way and grand canal, it will be logical to extend it towards Cork, so I'd say that West of dungarvan is already a plan.

The Youghal line would be out of the question for a number of reasons so routing it to Mallow would make the most sense.

Also having one end (or both if possible) of every greenway connect directly with the rail network world greatly facilitate end-to-end use, especially by tourists, and bolster patronage of the rail network at the same time.

As would Athenry & Claremorris on a WRC convert. They understand this in Athenry.