Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

galwaycyclist

This weeks Connacht Tribune

Motorway completion will reduce need for rail corridor reopening

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1553-motorway-completion-will-reduce-need-for-rail-corridor-reopening

When the provision of the new motorway is taken into account, the need to reopen a section of the rail line significantly diminishes.

This is another setback to the campaign for the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor – already the Minister for Transport has ruled out the possibility of funding the project.

The 2030 Rail Network Strategy Review has concluded that the reopening of the Athenry to Tuam section of the rail line does not merit a feasibility study – and the section from Tuam to Claremorris even less so.

Copyerselveson

galwaycyclist wrote: »

This weeks Connacht Tribune

Motorway completion will reduce need for rail corridor reopening

http://www.connachttribune.ie/galway-news/item/1553-motorway-completion-will-reduce-need-for-rail-corridor-reopening

@galwaycyclist have a read of the Galway-Limerick branch of this thread, essentially that Connacht Tribune report completely misreported what was said in the AECOM report, which scored the Athenry-Tuam line at 61 points and recommended it be considered for re-opening.

monument

Copyerselveson wrote: »

@galwaycyclist have a read of the Galway-Limerick branch of this thread, essentially that Connacht Tribune report completely misreported what was said in the AECOM report, which scored the Athenry-Tuam line at 61 points and recommended it be considered for re-opening.

Err... "recommended it be considered for re-opening" is going way to far.

It said of the reopening cases it looked at: "Of these, the Athenry-Tuam line, while not receiving a convincing score offers some potential for reinstatement and should be subject to further review in light of the patronage experience of Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor. Currently, this is
well short of levels forecast in the Business Case."

Copyerselveson

monument wrote: »

Err... "recommended it be considered for re-opening" is going way to far.

It said of the reopening cases it looked at: "Of these, the Athenry-Tuam line, while not receiving a convincing score offers some potential for reinstatement and should be subject to further review in light of the patronage experience of Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor. Currently, this is
well short of levels forecast in the Business Case."

In fairness that remains very different from what the Connacht Tribune reported.

dowlingm

Is it possible this is an update to the 2011 document? A quick search on the PDF shows the word motorway only shows it coming up once in relation to Dublin.

what_traffic

Copyerselveson wrote: »

A quick read of that article shows a number of serious factual errors. These include the assertion that a “new” report has recommended against the re-opening of the Tuam-Athenry railway and that when assessed it scored only 41 points on a scale of 100.

In fact the AECOM report the article refers to scored Tuam-Athenry at 61 points, the highest score and recommended that a passenger service was reinstated.

Do mind posting a link to this NEW AECOM report - or has it already been linked in this thread?

westtip

Copyerselveson wrote: »

In fairness that remains very different from what the Connacht Tribune reported.

and a long way from what you suggested. Lets just look at what Leo Varadkar said in an email to the sligo mayo greenway earlier this year:

Sligo Mayo Greenway campaign have published an email received from Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar on June 21st 2013 in which the Minister states: (the full email is attached to this press release)
“the Government has no plans to extend the western rail corridor nor any other heavy rail line in the state”

You can talk all you like about feasibility studies and whether the connacht tribune report is right or wrong. But waking up and smelling the coffee is a much better idea. The Western Rail corridor is a dead duck when it comes to government spending plans!! Get used to it!!!

monument

what_traffic wrote: »

Do mind posting a link to this NEW AECOM report - or has it already been linked in this thread?

http://www.irishrail.ie/cat_news.jsp?i=4482&p=116&n=237

Section in question covered in all three PDF files.

Tuam Greenway Project

"We don't want to be creating another wildlife park for the Dublin 4 brigade. In any case, you can't have a railway line in tandem with a greenway. We need to cut this off at the pass now." Cllr Murray. Classic stuff this!
https://www.facebook.com/WestOnTrack?ref=stream&hc_location=timeline

Copyerselveson

Well it does sound as if there will be a struggle to get any greenway proposals for the WRC onto the Mayo County development plan if the councillors continue to be implacably opposed to it.

TheBandicoot

What kind of an alternate reality are these people living in?

it's a bit rich for anybody to suggest that farmers were taking command of the line.

Councillor Richard Finn said it did not make sense to have greenways all over the county.

corktina

Tuam Greenway Project wrote: »

"We don't want to be creating another wildlife park for the Dublin 4 brigade. In any case, you can't have a railway line in tandem with a greenway. We need to cut this off at the pass now." Cllr Murray. Classic stuff this!
https://www.facebook.com/WestOnTrack?ref=stream&hc_location=timeline

"we can't have a railway but those effers in Dublin aren't going to have a Greenway, so there " (translation)

Tuam Greenway Project

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Well it does sound as if there will be a struggle to get any greenway proposals for the WRC onto the Mayo County development plan if the councillors continue to be implacably opposed to it.

The decision is not surprising but the language and logic is from another era. A complete change in European investment policy and a Mayo County Councillor gets to announce it? Funny old world ..Now back to those encroaching farmyards.......

westtip

I think the time has come to just give up. These local politicians are clueless. They still believe the railway is going to happen even from Tuam to Claremorris (it won't by the way) and as for north of Claremorris - well this shenangins in Mayo really says it all - nearly 300 submissions ignored! Quite unbelievable. But there you go this is the democratic process for ye.

corktina

it took all of 5 minutes to remove my post on that fb site and put me on the "ban" list.

Banjoxed

corktina wrote: »

it took all of 5 minutes to remove my post on that fb site and put me on the "ban" list.

Was your comment constructive and consistent with the charter of the group? If not, then you have no grounds to complain about the group's moderation decision.

corktina

it was a photo of a greenway co-existing with a railway. Something the Councillor in question averred wasn't possible.
No comment was made other than this is possible.

Is that unconstructive or merely just against their agenda?

Grandeeod

corktina wrote: »

it was a photo of a greenway co-existing with a railway. Something the Councillor in question averred wasn't possible.
No comment was made other than this is possible.

Is that unconstructive or merely just against their agenda?

Its against their agenda. Merely correcting a councilors misinformed opinion wouldnt sit well with their insecurities.

Grandeeod

westtip wrote: »

I think the time has come to just give up. These local politicians are clueless. They still believe the railway is going to happen even from Tuam to Claremorris (it won't by the way) and as for north of Claremorris - well this shenangins in Mayo really says it all - nearly 300 submissions ignored! Quite unbelievable. But there you go this is the democratic process for ye.

Give up on what? An argument against the bitterest, culturally inept, rude, delluded and racist type of people that you could come across. People that have an in built victim complex that precludes them from being rational!

Yes give up! The racist undertones from that lad Murray are disgusting yet typical of gombeen politicians and clergy. In 2004, similar ignorant racist remarks were made, which is why I have no problem berating these hillbillies.

westtip

GD you know we won't give up!

Grandeeod

westtip wrote: »

GD you know we won't give up!

I know nothing except that these WRC people directly and indirectly are off the planet more than the moon! What upsets me most is the fact that WRC supportive posters here can be easily identified from their "likes" under extremely sad posts on that facebook page. They come on here and avail of a reasonably free to debate facility, cause mayhem, bans, infractions etc. but on that facebook page they are protected from any debate whatsoever. But thats the internet for you.

Personally I'd like to see them in the open and up for public debate with their faces seen and opinions backed up by real names. Put it on TV, because I guarantee you that every last one of them will be found wanting. The WRC campaign has to be the most spineless example of campaigning ever. Full of spin and hiding from the reality that exists. Its tantamount to (actually I cant say it for fear of a ban on boards).

corktina

well said

Banjoxed

Grandeeod wrote: »

Give up on what? An argument against the bitterest, culturally inept, rude, delluded and racist type of people that you could come across. People that have an in built victim complex that precludes them from being rational!

Yes give up! The racist undertones from that lad Murray are disgusting yet typical of gombeen politicians and clergy. In 2004, similar ignorant racist remarks were made, which is why I have no problem berating these hillbillies.

I'd pay to see that debate and the clean up afterwards!

errigalclimber

Westtip, don't give up, you are doing sterling work on this topic, as are others such as Brendan Quinn in Sligo. I am writing to Leo Varadkar this morning asking him why he felt it was necessary or appropriate to have his photo taken with a lobbying organisation, i.e. members of West on Track, at the recent Oranmore station opening. I wonder has the Minister deemed it appropriate to meet with those advocating greenways (that's a sincere question, he may well have done so but I am just not aware of it).

The comments I have read rubbishing adverse possession claims I just cannot believe. Adverse possession claims along the disused line will be a simple fact (and I believe they may already be so) and they will lead to a valuable public resource falling into private hands and denying local communinites the use and benefit of the footfall those lines redeveloped into greenway might attract. On every concevable level, the greenway proposals for disused tracks are a no-brainer.

I understand the sentimentalism attached to the railways in the West of Ireland - I am a rail enthusiast myself and I grew up in an Irish town having never seen the station that closed in 1965. But sentimentalism does not put bread on the table and advocating further millions being sunk into reopening an alignment after the shambles of the Limerick to Galway reopening in my view is shocking in a time of austerity.

Banjoxed

Grandeeod wrote: »

I know nothing except that these WRC people directly and indirectly are off the planet more than the moon! What upsets me most is the fact that WRC supportive posters here can be easily identified from their "likes" under extremely sad posts on that facebook page. They come on here and avail of a reasonably free to debate facility, cause mayhem, bans, infractions etc. but on that facebook page they are protected from any debate whatsoever. But thats the internet for you.

Personally I'd like to see them in the open and up for public debate with their faces seen and opinions backed up by real names. Put it on TV, because I guarantee you that every last one of them will be found wanting. The WRC campaign has to be the most spineless example of campaigning ever. Full of spin and hiding from the reality that exists. Its tantamount to (actually I cant say it for fear of a ban on boards).

Identifying individuals on boards who put likes on a Facebook page? That's a curious approach to "debate" to say the least.

westtip

errigalclimber wrote: »

Westtip, don't give up, you are doing sterling work on this topic, as are others such as Brendan Quinn in Sligo. I am writing to Leo Varadkar this morning asking him why he felt it was necessary or appropriate to have his photo taken with a lobbying organisation, i.e. members of West on Track, at the recent Oranmore station opening. I wonder has the Minister deemed it appropriate to meet with those advocating greenways (that's a sincere question, he may well have done so but I am just not aware of it).

The comments I have read rubbishing adverse possession claims I just cannot believe. Adverse possession claims along the disused line will be a simple fact (and I believe they may already be so) and they will lead to a valuable public resource falling into private hands and denying local communinites the use and benefit of the footfall those lines redeveloped into greenway might attract. On every concevable level, the greenway proposals for disused tracks are a no-brainer.

I understand the sentimentalism attached to the railways in the West of Ireland - I am a rail enthusiast myself and I grew up in an Irish town having never seen the station that closed in 1965. But sentimentalism does not put bread on the table and advocating further millions being sunk into reopening an alignment after the shambles of the Limerick to Galway reopening in my view is shocking in a time of austerity.

It's no longer about re-opening the railway its about stopping the greenway. We all know the railway is not going to re-open - i noticed one of those mayo councillors spoke about more money from Europe coming soon Gerry Murray of Sinn Fein/West on Track said "The line must be retained for the western rail corridor, The indications are that significant EU structural funding is coming on line." I really don't know about this claim but the idea of the EU giving us structural funds and then any government agreeing to direct those funds at a railway from Claremorris to Collooney is delusional in the extreme. The likelihood of the EU allowing this to happen is equally delusional. Perhaps Sinnfein/West on Track councillor Murray could expand on this one if he reads this forum.

Tuam Greenway Project

Grandeeod wrote: »

Give up on what? An argument against the bitterest, culturally inept, rude, delluded and racist type of people that you could come across. People that have an in built victim complex that precludes them from being rational!

Yes give up! The racist undertones from that lad Murray are disgusting yet typical of gombeen politicians and clergy. In 2004, similar ignorant racist remarks were made, which is why I have no problem berating these hillbillies.

It gets better - Fruedian mix of metaphors from Cllr Peter Feeney, Galway, who says that " handing over the rail line for use as a Greenway simply because its not in use was like suggesting to allow a cowshed to be built on the Galway Airport runway just because the Airport is not in use at the moment" - today's Tuam Herald.
I wonder what put that idea into his head .

Grandeeod

Banjoxed wrote: »

Identifying individuals on boards who put likes on a Facebook page? That's a curious approach to "debate" to say the least.

I havent identified anyone. Now either my point has gone way over your head or you are trolling.

errigalclimber

Below is the text of my email to Minister Varadkar of this morning, which I have copied to West on Track in a spirit of openness. If anyone has Brendan Quinn's email address, please feel free to pass this on - I'm not a Facebook user so I cannot access the Sligo-Mayo Greenway site!


Dear Minister

I wish to congratulate you on the recent opening of Oranmore railway station and I hope it will be a great success.

I do have to query the appropriateness of your posing for photographs at the opening with the lobbying group West On Track and I wondered whether any other single interest lobbying group in the State enjoys such access to a Government minister. As you will doubtless be aware, West on Track have been lobbying for the reopening of the entire Western Rail Corridor from Limerick through to Sligo via Claremorris (regardless of the economics), apparently to the exclusion of all other possibibilities for the disused section of the line between Athenry and Claremorris, including for the purposes of a greenway.

I have witnessed in despair as the debate on this matter has become increasinly fractious. As a lawyer, I know that the disused sections of the line are vulnerable to adverse possession claims, whereby a valuable public resource will simply be allowed to fall into private hands by default - I believe this is already happening on some parts of the line. Despite being a rail enthusiast myself, I support those who are advocating a greenway along the disused rail lines, as such a greenway has the potential to bring toursit footfall into some of the most deprived areas of the West of Ireland and, importantly, the installation of a greenway does not preclude the reinstatement of a railway in the future - indeed, the greenway would help preserve the trackbed and prevent adverse possession claims.

Please can you confirm whether you have met with advocates of the Greenway projects such as Brendan Quinn of the Sligo-Mayo Greenway campaign? If not, can you explain why the Department has felt it appropriate to allow a single interest group such as West on Track such access to the Minister, when West on Track appear so implacably opposed to any other possibilities for the economic use of the disused lines for the benefit of the communities in which they are located?

I am not the only one I am sure who feels that in a time of austerity, sinking €100m in capital costs and an annual subsidy of a reported €3m into the line between Limerick and Galway which is so underused raises significant questions as to priorities and costs versus benefits. But I would suggest that West on Track, having successfully lobbied for the re-opening of that section of line, now owe it to the communities from which the organisation's founders come to listen seriously to the alternatives that are being advocated for the disused sections of the WRC, as it is plain that for the foreseeable future these will not be working railways.

Your Department could play a key role in this in bringing these parties together and promoting the debate and I would urge you to do so before the parties become even more polarised in their views.

Kind regards

relaxed

errigalclimber wrote: »

Below is the text of my email to Minister Varadkar of this morning, which I have copied to West on Track in a spirit of openness. If anyone has Brendan Quinn's email address, please feel free to pass this on - I'm not a Facebook user so I cannot access the Sligo-Mayo Greenway site!


Dear Minister

I wish to congratulate you on the recent opening of Oranmore railway station and I hope it will be a great success.

I do have to query the appropriateness of your posing for photographs at the opening with the lobbying group West On Track and I wondered whether any other single interest lobbying group in the State enjoys such access to a Government minister. As you will doubtless be aware, West on Track have been lobbying for the reopening of the entire Western Rail Corridor from Limerick through to Sligo via Claremorris (regardless of the economics), apparently to the exclusion of all other possibibilities for the disused section of the line between Athenry and Claremorris, including for the purposes of a greenway.

I have witnessed in despair as the debate on this matter has become increasinly fractious. As a lawyer, I know that the disused sections of the line are vulnerable to adverse possession claims, whereby a valuable public resource will simply be allowed to fall into private hands by default - I believe this is already happening on some parts of the line. Despite being a rail enthusiast myself, I support those who are advocating a greenway along the disused rail lines, as such a greenway has the potential to bring toursit footfall into some of the most deprived areas of the West of Ireland and, importantly, the installation of a greenway does not preclude the reinstatement of a railway in the future - indeed, the greenway would help preserve the trackbed and prevent adverse possession claims.

Please can you confirm whether you have met with advocates of the Greenway projects such as Brendan Quinn of the Sligo-Mayo Greenway campaign? If not, can you explain why the Department has felt it appropriate to allow a single interest group such as West on Track such access to the Minister, when West on Track appear so implacably opposed to any other possibilities for the economic use of the disused lines for the benefit of the communities in which they are located?

I am not the only one I am sure who feels that in a time of austerity, sinking €100m in capital costs and an annual subsidy of a reported €3m into the line between Limerick and Galway which is so underused raises significant questions as to priorities and costs versus benefits. But I would suggest that West on Track, having successfully lobbied for the re-opening of that section of line, now owe it to the communities from which the organisation's founders come to listen seriously to the alternatives that are being advocated for the disused sections of the WRC, as it is plain that for the foreseeable future these will not be working railways.

Your Department could play a key role in this in bringing these parties together and promoting the debate and I would urge you to do so before the parties become even more polarised in their views.

Kind regards

That's funny!

As regards political lobbying I consider Michael Lowry and Denis O'Brien, the anglo circle, Bertie and his cronies etc. etc. 100 times more serious lobbying examples than a few lads playing trains.

I think you should read the rest of this thread, the greenway people did meet a Minister AFAIK, scandalously lobbying for a local cycle and walking amenity.

Whats this €100m capital project that is being sunk in a time of austerity, I was not aware of any approval for a new railway????