Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Laviski

corktina wrote: »

there is nothing new to bring to this debate. You may not like it but the fact is that the WRC is a non-starter, Rail has limited uses at which it does well, a local low speed line serving tiny villages is not one of these.

Instead of attacking my post with comments of no substance, why don't you try refuting the substance of it?

just stating facts like yourself.

and for starters i would think it would be best to examine any stations that are being under utilized by the population it serves and reduce or close the service, if the result would increase times between the higher population centers. but i firmly believe that connecting galway to limerick/claremorris by rail is a good thing but Irish Rail need to address their price structure and not having online fares for such a length of time is just crazy.

Copyerselveson

I think there needs to be a discussion on the future of motor transport in general. I am quite interested in the ongoing evolution of electric cars, however I think while electric cars will ultimately take over from combustion engine based cars, there's no reason to think they will also completely kill off rail transport. 100+ years of personal motor transport still hasn't done that.

I can't think of any reason why electric cars will be adopted any quicker in the west than any other part of the country. I think they will be adopted at more or less the same pace nationally.

Will freight be carried in electric lorries? Maybe. But I do think for bulk freight, rail is the best option. It's certainly good enough for the Ballina - Waterford liner trains and a connection from Ballina to Claremorris, down to Athenry and along to Waterford via Clonmel would be possible rather than via Athlone and Cherryville as at present.

corktina

Laviski wrote: »

just stating facts like yourself.

and for starters i would think it would be best to examine any stations that are being under utilized by the population it serves and reduce or close the service, if the result would increase times between the higher population centers. but i firmly believe that connecting galway to limerick/claremorris by rail is a good thing but Irish Rail need to address their price structure and not having online fares for such a length of time is just crazy.

you weren't stating facts, you were launching a personal attack, a tactic seen before on here.

I firmly believe in rail transport between major concentrations of populations, but NOT on a half-hearted slow, indirect line such as Galway to Limerick. It was money wasted which could have been better spent elsewhere, for the benefit of 8 through passengers per train on average. Ask yourself , if passenger figures from city 3 to city 4 are so low, how many will ride to Claremorris?

corktina

Copyerselveson wrote: »

I think there needs to be a discussion on the future of motor transport in general. I am quite interested in the ongoing evolution of electric cars, however I think while electric cars will ultimately take over from combustion engine based cars, there's no reason to think they will also completely kill off rail transport. 100+ years of personal motor transport still hasn't done that.

I can't think of any reason why electric cars will be adopted any quicker in the west than any other part of the country. I think they will be adopted at more or less the same pace nationally.

Will freight be carried in electric lorries? Maybe. But I do think for bulk freight, rail is the best option. It's certainly good enough for the Ballina - Waterford liner trains and a connection from Ballina to Claremorris, down to Athenry and along to Waterford via Clonmel would be possible rather than via Athlone and Cherryville as at present.

what purpose would such a diversion have other than to justify expenditure on the WRC?

errigalclimber

I copied the West On Track email into my letter to the Minister yesterday. Colmán Ó Raghallaigh responded to me yesterday, saying he would repond substantively just as soon as I had provided to him my "business address as a solicitor" (I mentioned in my email to the Minister that as a lawyer I understand the law of adverse possession) and my telephone numbers.

I provided my 'phone number, my home address (as I write in a personal capacity), I made it clear that I write in a friendly and constructive manner and I get a response this afternoon talking of how "vicious the greenway campaign has been against the Western Rail Corridor Project and anyone who disagrees with them" and how it is a "little late in the day" for them [the greenway campaigners including myself presumably] to pretend otherwise.

For the record, I have not been "vicious" to West On Track or anyone else. I want to see the disused Western Rail Corridor used as a greenway as I believe that the local communities bordering the line will benefit from that economically now and not at some time in the future when most of the trackbed will likely have been lost to adverse possession claims.

Why cannot this issue be debated constructively? As I wrote to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh yesterday, the greenway campaingers and WOT have at least four things in common, as follows:

1. they clearly care about the local community;

2. they want to help the local economy;

3. they want the track bed preserved; and

4. they want the disused line to be put to economic use.

Greenway now and rail use in the future are not mutually exclusive aims, indeed they are fully complementary, but this is something that WOT do not appear willing to accept. I despair at this.

I remain willing to debate the issues constructively, but is there any point?!

Incidentally, having provided my credentials to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh as requested, the same courtesy was not extended to me. I still have no idea who West On Track are, who their members are, where they are based and who Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is.

Laviski

corktina wrote: »

you weren't stating facts, you were launching a personal attack, a tactic seen before on here.

I firmly believe in rail transport between major concentrations of populations, but NOT on a half-hearted slow, indirect line such as Galway to Limerick. It was money wasted which could have been better spent elsewhere, for the benefit of 8 through passengers per train on average. Ask yourself , if passenger figures from city 3 to city 4 are so low, how many will ride to Claremorris?

not attacking just tired of reading the same comments from you on both threads you repeat and repeat, just asking to bring a bit more discussion to the table that stating the same thing over again that is all. variety is the spice of life n all....

since this thread is focused on the disused section if the line does reopen it should only serve tuam and claremorris. And at least from claremorries you can get a connecting train. Restoring the WRC fully is a pipe dream that will and probably should not happen. But opening a line stopping in villiages is bound to failure much like the stations created between ennis and athenry.

Laviski

should also note that the train stations in both towns are located 5 mins walk from the town center.

Copyerselveson

errigalclimber wrote: »

For the record, I have not been "vicious" to West On Track or anyone else.


Incidentally, having provided my credentials to Colmán Ó Raghallaigh as requested, the same courtesy was not extended to me. I still have no idea who West On Track are, who their members are, where they are based and who Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is.

A google will tell you exactly who West on Track and Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is. Meanwhile you yourself have used the words "Sinister" regarding WOT in your earlier posts.

corktina

Laviski wrote: »

not attacking just tired of reading the same comments from you on both threads you repeat and repeat, just asking to bring a bit more discussion to the table that stating the same thing over again that is all. variety is the spice of life n all....

since this thread is focused on the disused section if the line does reopen it should only serve tuam and claremorris. And at least from claremorries you can get a connecting train. Restoring the WRC fully is a pipe dream that will and probably should not happen. But opening a line stopping in villiages is bound to failure much like the stations created between ennis and athenry.

you ask for more discussion and yet ignore my question on how many will ride to Claremorris when the re-opened section is averaging 8 persons per train between two Cities

Tuam Greenway Project

Laviski wrote: »

not attacking just tired of reading the same comments from you on both threads you repeat and repeat, just asking to bring a bit more discussion to the table that stating the same thing over again that is all. variety is the spice of life n all....

since this thread is focused on the disused section if the line does reopen it should only serve tuam and claremorris. And at least from claremorries you can get a connecting train. Restoring the WRC fully is a pipe dream that will and probably should not happen. But opening a line stopping in villiages is bound to failure much like the stations created between ennis and athenry.

You are making the argument for so called anti-rail campaigners. There is absolutley no prospect of a commuter rail from Claremorris to Athenry - even West on Track now accept this and are focusing only on freight rail north of Tuam. As for comuter rail from Tuam via Athenry, most Tuam people will tell you, if anyone cared to ask them, that outside of car use, the hourly Burkes Bus service that serves all the major industries in the city at times that best suit commuters is a much better prospect than a longer and limited commute via Athenry & dropping you in the city centre with further bus journeys neccessary.

galwaycyclist

Copyerselveson wrote: »

A google will tell you exactly who West on Track and Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is. Meanwhile you yourself have used the words "Sinister" regarding WOT in your earlier posts.

I took that advice - apparently Colmán Ó Raghallaigh is a publisher of childrens books. Why a publisher of childrens books would be opposed to a greenway escapes me.

Perhaps in the zero sum world of western local rivalries he is afraid that children who are out getting healthy exercise cannot therefore be at home reading his books?

serfboard

Tuam Greenway Project wrote: »

As for comuter rail from Tuam ... the hourly Burkes Bus service that serves all the major industries in the city at times that best suit commuters is a much better prospect than a longer and limited commute via Athenry & dropping you in the city centre with further bus journeys neccessary.

+1.

And if that's not enough, there are Bus Eireann services as well.

errigalclimber

Copyerselveson, Google searching West on Track simply does not explain who WOT are - who is a member, what is their constitution, who funds them, etc. It is "community based" apparently, but aren't all of the concerns raised about the disused line community based or oriented?

I used the word "sinister" to describe the anonymity of a lobbying organisation with such a loud voice and I felt the same adjective was appropriate today in being asked for my professional address and telephone numbers before WOT would reply to my email, particularly when that courtesy was not extended to me.

serfboard

The Galway Advertiser wrote:

Councillors call for Tuam to Athenry railway to be protected in Galway County Development Plan

Protecting infrastructure such as the Tuam to Athenry railway line is one step in ensuring that future investment and development in the west is not put at risk, that is according to the majority of county councillors who fiercely disagreed with suggestions that hopes of one day reopening the line should be abandoned and a greenway put in its place.

The greenway versss railway debate came up at the monthly meeting of the Galway County Council this week

I don't like this being referred to as a "Greenway Vs Railway" debate as it was in the advertiser. (Mind you, I think that's the way WOT would put it).

"Greenway until Railway" would be much better. That way, the alignment gets protected and we get to use it until some time, in a land far, far away, the funding gets released to turn it into a railway. (And even then, the current alignment would not be suitable anyway).

corktina

Greenway AND Railway is perfectly feasible

errigalclimber

Great photo Corktina. My favourite route along a disused line is the path from Annecy to Albertville - it is truly stunning:

http://http://www.cycling-challenge.com/annecy-to-albertville-cycling-path/

corktina

errigalclimber wrote: »

Great photo Corktina. My favourite route along a disused line is the path from Annecy to Albertville - it is truly stunning:

http://http://www.cycling-challenge.com/annecy-to-albertville-cycling-path/

in my view it's the Clincher in the argument. Sure there may be clearance problems in a few places, but I'm quite sure it would be possible to run the Greenway around theses places, mostly these will be bridges I would guess, in which case you slope the Greenway up (or down) to the roadway and install some form of crossing.

Copyerselveson

errigalclimber wrote: »

Copyerselveson, Google searching West on Track simply does not explain who WOT are - who is a member, what is their constitution, who funds them, etc. It is "community based" apparently, but aren't all of the concerns raised about the disused line community based or oriented?

I used the word "sinister" to describe the anonymity of a lobbying organisation with such a loud voice and I felt the same adjective was appropriate today in being asked for my professional address and telephone numbers before WOT would reply to my email, particularly when that courtesy was not extended to me.

Well you did copy them in on an email questioning the appropriateness of the Minister posing for pictures with members of West on Track. If I had been Colmán O Raghallagh my response to you would not have been so civil.

Copyerselveson

Corktina has put up a nice picture but that looks like a former double track railway with one track converted to a cycle and walking path.

The WRC is for the most part a single track railway with relatively little clearance in parts. Certainly not enough for an operational railway to run in tandem with a cycle path safely.

The Foyle Valley Railway was shut down when Derry City Council installed a parallel path I seem to recall.

Tuam Greenway Project

corktina wrote: »

Greenway AND Railway is perfectly feasible




http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2012/may/06/mawddach-trail-bike-ride

I've been on this one with my kids when the train passes - nice rush.

errigalclimber

Copyerselveson, I did indeed query the appropriateness of the Minister posing for photos with lobbyists and whether the same indulgence was being granted to the greenway advocates. The Minister is and must remain impartial. I raised the query openly and in civil terms and I ensured WOT were copied in the spirit of openness. Why would anyone want to be uncivil in response - clearly you have a view on that but in my view it is called debate.

corktina

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Corktina has put up a nice picture but that looks like a former double track railway with one track converted to a cycle and walking path.

The WRC is for the most part a single track railway with relatively little clearance in parts. Certainly not enough for an operational railway to run in tandem with a cycle path safely.

The Foyle Valley Railway was shut down when Derry City Council installed a parallel path I seem to recall.

most railway lines in fact were built with enough room for two tracks. Without a survey, you cannot claim there is no room for a cycleway and I have already explained what you do at pinch points.

there are many more examples of cycleways and railways co-existing, google it.

Tuam Greenway Project

[QUOTE= The Foyle Valley Railway was shut down when Derry City Council installed a parallel path I seem to recall.[/QUOTE]

copyeselveson - The Foyle Valley Railway was shut down when a parallel path was installed or because a parallel path was installed?

More than a subtle difference.

errigalclimber

The Foyle Valley Railway was always a rather grand title to give what was about 3km of track along the Foyle over which an old Co. Donegal Railways railcar ran sporadically for a few years on some track that was relaid for the purpose along the old line to Strabane. It serves no useful purpose in this debate. Incidentally, Strabane used to be one of the busiest railway junctions in Ireland and is in the (north) west - does West On Tracck want it reopened also and the line to Gweedore preserved? Where does this stop?

I recognise that the rail advocates have a dream, but while they wait for it to be fulfilled the line will be vulnerable to adverse possession claims and that is fact. That they would deny anyone else the use of the alignment, in a "our way or no way" show-down I think is disgraceful. This is a public resource and it should be put to use for public benefit. Now.

dennis124wwr

This thread is so long....

eastwest

errigalclimber wrote: »

The Foyle Valley Railway was always a rather grand title to give what was about 3km of track along the Foyle over which an old Co. Donegal Railways railcar ran sporadically for a few years on some track that was relaid for the purpose along the old line to Strabane. It serves no useful purpose in this debate. Incidentally, Strabane used to be one of the busiest railway junctions in Ireland and is in the (north) west - does West On Tracck want it reopened also and the line to Gweedore preserved? Where does this stop?

I recognise that the rail advocates have a dream, but while they wait for it to be fulfilled the line will be vulnerable to adverse possession claims and that is fact. That they would deny anyone else the use of the alignment, in a "our way or no way" show-down I think is disgraceful. This is a public resource and it should be put to use for public benefit. Now.

They don't seem to see it as a public resource, I'm afraid. It's their way or their way, with no room for debate.
Is the Colman O'Rahaille mentioned above the same person who consistently refuses to debate this issue with pro-greenway campaigners on Midwest radio and Ocean FM, but who will only come on air after the greenway people have finished putting their point of view and are safely off air? He can then rebut without fear of losing the argument.
Or maybe that's a different Colman.

westtip

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Corktina has put up a nice picture but that looks like a former double track railway with one track converted to a cycle and walking path.

The WRC is for the most part a single track railway with relatively little clearance in parts. Certainly not enough for an operational railway to run in tandem with a cycle path safely.

The Foyle Valley Railway was shut down when Derry City Council installed a parallel path I seem to recall.

Wake up smell the coffee..You seem to like the idea of the WRC so come on Copyyerselveon, let's here your actual rationale. ..... Euro funds might become available BTW is not rationale. Come on lets here it. Please answer this question:

Restoring the Western Rail corridor from Athenry to Tuam, then Tuam to Claremorris and then Claremorris is valid because...

Banjoxed

dennis124wwr wrote: »

This thread is so long....

Not so much that, more the circular arguments and demands. Still, it keeps us off the streets..

westtip

It's legend at this stage!!

monument

Copyerselveson wrote: »

The WRC is for the most part a single track railway with relatively little clearance in parts.

That's not what I've seen from the line, and before you say otherwise my experience goes beyond Google Maps or Street View, but Google Street View (and satellite images) includes ample examples which shows your statement up to be highly questionable.

Not near Collooney (example 2)

Not near Tubbercurry (example 2)

Not near Charlestown (example 2)

Not near Swinford (example 2)

Not near Kiltimagh (example 2)

Not near Claremorris (example 2)

Not near Ballindine

Not near Tuam (example 2)

Unless where you say "in parts" you mean in very few parts OR where you said "relatively little" you're comparing it to a higher speed line which which would need greater clearance?