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Ireland - lack of air and naval defence.

ShotgunPaddy

[Moderator's Note:

Yes, there's a Walter Mitty Forum for silliness like this, but the topic seems to keep coming up. Thus, this thread has been 'stickified' as the first pont of call for any complaints about the lack of Ireland's military capability, any other threads started on the subject will either be merged into this one, or moved to Walter Mitty.

The more creative your solution for the re-instatement of Ireland into a position of 'World Military Power', the better.

NTM ]

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Given Ireland's lack of adequate naval and air defence, should we not look at partnering with another European state? Britain was, and in many respects still is a hostile nation but what about the French. We already cooperate closely with French forces in Chad. Should we ask the French to station an aircraft carrier in the Shannon Estuary and share the running costs?

Share your thoughts.

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twinytwo

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

The British cannot be trusted. They have always put their own strategic national and economic interests first.

Yes, cash is an issue. Perhaps we could take advantage of any Euro Navy developments and station a squadron off our coasts.

Small countries need alliances. The Irish electorate need to be educated about the potential threats.

Other European nations might object if we allowed American bases on Irish soil but that is still an option. I would have no objections.

As would any other country.. so whats your point?

twinytwo

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

They would if they could. If the UK were under attack they would protect themselves first. The USA may be too far away to react quickly enough.

son.. you watch too many movies..russia etc isnt going to wake up tomorrow and decide to attack the west. None of the biggest countries could afford to fight each other nor would they want to.

Abd how exactly would you expect to pay for these plans and ships... i mean you do have some idea how much such an outing would cost right?

to the walter mitty with this one.

Dublin_Gunner

1. Don't the UK already defend our Air Space (some agreement / 'understanding' we have with them)?
2. The US & Britain have quite large, mobile, Atlantic fleets, and I'm pretty sure either would come to our aid should we require it.
3. Exactly who got the intelligence report stating Al Qaeda / Russians were going to launch a massive naval / air borne attack on Ireland?
4. Any attack from the East would have to come via NATO defended European air space. Not likely.
5. Any attack from the West would have to pass through NATO / USAF defended international Air Space.
6. Defending & Controlling airspace are two hugely different things.

ShotgunPaddy

concussion wrote: »

Good idea, lots of piracy off the Irish coast these days...

What about drugs?

concussion

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

What about drugs?

What about drugs? Your link dealt exclusively with piracy.

As for drugs, the most effective way of combatting drugs is with targetted boardings directed by good intelligence, not having a carrier battle group turning circles off Co. Kerry.

Nuttzz

We could build our own aircraft carriers, get all those unemployed designers back to work and Im sure we can find enough plumbers and sparkies on the dole to do the fit out, and build our own aircraft too, it would be the perfect economic stimlus package, but then again perhaps not....

Dublin_Gunner

Nuttzz wrote: »

We could build our own aircraft carriers, get all those unemployed designers back to work and Im sure we can find enough plumbers and sparkies on the dole to do the fit out, and build our own aircraft too, it would be the perfect economic stimlus package, but then again perhaps not....

Thats great and all, but exactly where would the money come from to pay them all? Or would it be a 'work for dole' type scheme? Put it on FÁS maybe?

concussion

Rememer that half-assed proposal to put RDF all along the West Coast to look for smugglers? Put people on the dole there instead!! They could sit around doing almost nothing, instead of nothing at all :pac:

b12mearse

i don think ireland would be worth invading or worth defending for that matter!

Fratton Fred

concussion wrote: »

Rememer that half-assed proposal to put RDF all along the West Coast to look for smugglers? Put people on the dole there instead!! They could sit around doing almost nothing, instead of nothing at all :pac:

And earn themselves a few extra quid in backhanders at the same time

Dublin_Gunner

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And earn themselves a few extra quid in backhanders at the same time

And still do coke all day!

concussion

Sure where would they get the drugs from....aren't they calling in every suspicious activity they see?? Oh. Wait.

Husqvarna

Why is anyone replying to this? It's so off-the-wall that it's obviously a piss take.

An aircraft carrier on the Shannon Estuary...brilliant!!!! An aircraft carrier in a river, and a tidal one at that.

Promote that man!

mrmanire

Husqvarna wrote: »

Why is anyone replying to this? It's so off-the-wall that it's obviously a piss take.

An aircraft carrier on the Shannon Estuary...brilliant!!!! An aircraft carrier in a river, and a tidal one at that.

Promote that man!

Epic stuff going on in this thread. As preposterous as sticking an aircraft Carrier in the Shannon estuary is (even the yanks couldn't spare one!); why do that when you have an unsinkable aircraft carrier there (Shannon Airport) already.

Might be necessary though. Those darned Canadians have had there eyes on the Burren for years!

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Maybe if the ports of Berehaven, Cobh (It could be renamed Queenstown) and Lough Swilly were given to the Royal Navy they could take the job on.

That would be a good step forward for the state

There is only one country in Europe with an Atlantic coast that has trouble patrolling it's waters. Why should the countries that have spent money on their navy cover for it, especially considering the amount of EU money that country has already received.

Well considering britain more than milked Ireland for years, (even under the terms of the treaty the new Irish state had to assume part of britian's debt), what ever about the rest of the EU, the brits should be the last ones to tell us about how we have spent our money and patrolling our waters. Besides, look at the economic shape britian is in, I mean they have to depend on charity's to support their wounded and maimed soldiers back from Afghanistan as the british govt fall short on support for them.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

attack by who?

If the UK was attacked, then the US and the rest of NATO would be obliged to chip in anyway, unless it was one of them doing the attacking, in which case, it is going to be pretty ****ing messy for Ireland anyway.

Well they didn't chip in when the Icelandics ran you home in the Cod War*

. And the Americans showed their obligations to you when they invaded Grenada without requesting or telling you

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_war

McArmalite

Husqvarna wrote: »

Why is anyone replying to this? It's so off-the-wall that it's obviously a piss take.

An aircraft carrier on the Shannon Estuary...brilliant!!!! An aircraft carrier in a river, and a tidal one at that.

Promote that man!

mrmanire wrote: »

Epic stuff going on in this thread. As preposterous as sticking an aircraft Carrier in the Shannon estuary is (even the yanks couldn't spare one!); why do that when you have an unsinkable aircraft carrier there (Shannon Airport) already.

Might be necessary though. Those darned Canadians have had there eyes on the Burren for years!

Best two posts yet !!!

Fratton Fred

McArmalite wrote: »

Well considering britain more than milked Ireland for years, (even under the terms of the treaty the new Irish state had to assume part of britian's debt), what ever about the rest of the EU, the brits should be the last ones to tell us about how we have spent our money and patrolling our waters. Besides, look at the economic shape britian is in, I mean they have to depend on charity's to support their wounded and maimed soldiers back from Afghanistan as the british govt fall short on support for them.

Well they didn't chip in when the Icelandics ran you home in the Cod War* . And the Americans showed their obligations to you when they invaded Grenada without requesting or telling you

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_war

I suggest you try this link www.howthe****doigetasenseofhumour.com (Note, this may or may not work.)

citizen_p

like any country in the first world nowadays.....their would be world wide outcry if we were invaded....and eventually nato or the un would but in and nag or fight the invader away (depending on which)

iceage

Oh ffs, I haven't had a giggle like this in ages......OP post of the day! Off to get my tinfoil hat. WWHHAAAAAAAAAA!!

Steyr

ShotgunPaddy wrote: »

The USA may be too far away to react quickly enough.

Google USAFE

concussion

Steyr wrote: »

Google USAFE

All I got was rent your own safes....

Dublin_Gunner

concussion wrote: »

All I got was rent your own safes....

You must not be googling properly, because the first link listed for me was:
http://www.usafe.af.mil/

Steyr

concussion wrote: »

All I got was rent your own safes....

Ok :pac:

United States Air Forces in Europe (USAFE)

concussion

Apologies, too subtle. I was referring to the pronunciation U-SAFE, which reminded me of U-HAUL. Anyway, yes, USAFE, a formation of the USAF numbering around 4 times the Irish DF and spread all over Europe.

Morpheus

seriously this thread has been the funniest ive read in years!!!

a carrier on the shannon, would certainly increase tourism on the pleasure cruises up and down the river!!!

:pac::D

mrmanire

concussion wrote: »

Apologies, too subtle. I was referring to the pronunciation U-SAFE, which reminded me of U-HAUL. Anyway, yes, USAFE, a formation of the USAF numbering around 4 times the Irish DF and spread all over Europe.

If Ireland was to be hypothetically attacked by a foreign power; obviously the primary source of aid would come from Europe and thus most likely Britain. If Europe was not to react, then of course it would would be down to the US. This would have to be done by Naval means (once again the mythical aircraft carrier) which would most likely would not be stationed anywhere near.

The only alternative would thus be the aircraft of USAFE and their combat aircraft are located within Britain and Germany. If Britain was reluctant to utilise force to protect Ireland on it's own; it would thus be reluctant to allow the US (or any other power) to use it's bases and airspace to launch any form of operation. An operation from Germany would be impracticable even using refuelling aircraft as they would have to fly around Britain. If I was the British Government; I would of course feel rightly justified and would stick an armoured infantry battalion into RAF Lakenheath. Thus the USAFE option is null and void.

Of course this all hypothetical is (again the magical aircraft carrier) and would never ever ever happen.

Manic Moran

Morphéus wrote: »

:pac::D

Curses. I was going to post the Lat/Long for that, but you got there first.

NTM

ShotgunPaddy

Manic Moran wrote: »

Curses. I was going to post the Lat/Long for that, but you got there first.

NTM

Given that most European countries will be forced to make dramatic cutbacks in defence spending it is only a matter of time before European countries combine navies and air forces. Europe will have to compete with the Chinese for raw materials and energy resources. The Chinese are building a blue water navy and will soon have the ability to project power in far flung corners of the globe. It is essential that Europe has the ability to counter this because we cannot rely on a weakened America to limit Chinese expansionism. I predict a new era of benevolent colonialism where industrial nations compete for the attentions of poorer nations with undeveloped resources.

Europe needs to ensure that it's military forces are capable of securing it's resource needs. It can start by amalgamating elements of European navies into a task force capable of maritime power projection anywhere in the globe. Some Euro Navy units could operate out of Irish Ports securing the western perimeter against attack.

getz

McArmalite wrote: »

Well considering britain more than milked Ireland for years, (even under the terms of the treaty the new Irish state had to assume part of britian's debt), what ever about the rest of the EU, the brits should be the last ones to tell us about how we have spent our money and patrolling our waters. Besides, look at the economic shape britian is in, I mean they have to depend on charity's to support their wounded and maimed soldiers back from Afghanistan as the british govt fall short on support for them.

Well they didn't chip in when the Icelandics ran you home in the Cod War* . And the Americans showed their obligations to you when they invaded Grenada without requesting or telling you

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_war

the first thing you should check out is to who invaded granada,when you have done that you may find out that many british commonwealth countries were part of the invasion,i am astonished you havent yet connected english soldiers input to the plague[black death]which is believed to have killed up to 84% of the people of ireland in the 14th century

There is an aircraft carrier stationed off the west coast most of the time, it sometimes is based in the shannon estuary aswell.

LE Eithne, Flagship NS and the finest aircraft carrier that Ireland owns