Is it Now?

donothoponpop

RacoonQueen wrote: »

What triathlon are you planning on doing?

There's a monathlon in Dingle, will attempt that first. Can't afford to be a tri guy;)

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Would you stop. Sure aren't you only in your early 50's?!

Why you little... not so old I can't put you over my knee and tan your hide, young lady.

donothoponpop

Tuesday eve 7k steady

The swim has worked wonders. No doubt I'll feel aches tomorrow, but tonights run started off with perfect form. It took a while for knee pain to become noticeable, but my stride was long and strong. This was meant to be an easy run, in the dark, but there was no slowing down tonight, running felt like a joy. The last mile was fast, in memory of poor Krusty. While I crash through barely lit trees along a muddy forest trail, that poor sod is smashing treadmills in a dull city.

shotgunmcos

donothoponpop wrote: »

Ok, its all relative, but for the basics- should I be swimming 10x25m lengths, and taking a break, or swimming longer before breaking? Should I be kicking off the ends or is that cheating? Should I be aiming for 60mins per session??? Is it ok to breath every 4th stroke (think 5th is better for symmetry?) So many questions, and I'm not even sure how far down this rabbit hole I can afford go:pac:

All worthy of new threads

donothoponpop

shotgunmcos wrote: »

All worthy of new threads

Yeah, point taken. In fact, after I posted those questions, I realized they're the typical swimming newbie fodder- I'm sick to my back teeth of newbie runners asking "how fast should I run? Is a treadmill cheating? Should I breath through my mouth and out from my nose, or the other way around?", and now I'm just after committing Cardinal sin No.1:D

I'll just tick over on the swimming, let it happen, and enjoy the new training. I've already worked out that 2k extra swimming, and 10k on the bike, will see me fly up the SBR challenge!

RacoonQueen

You should only breath once per length! :pac:

GoHardOrGoHome

Just started back into the swimming myself. Trying to emulate the experienced swimmers would be like a newbie runner trying to do 100k weeks and 25k long runs.

I'm at 4.5k for the year in swimming.

This is what I did:

fc = front crawl
bs = breast stroke


Jan 14th (100m front crawl, rest, 100m breast stroke) x 5 = 1000m
Jan 16th (100m front crawl, rest, 100m breast stroke) x 5 = 1000m
Jan 19th 100m fc, 100m bs, 200m fc, 100m bs, 200m fc, 100m bs, 200m fc = 1000m
Jan 24th 100m fc, 200m fc, 300m fc, 100m fc, 100m fc, 100m fc, 100m bs, 100m backcrawl, 100m bs, 200m fc, 100m fc = 1500m

At the moment I don't have basic swim fitness and my technique (poor as it is) degrades significantly after only 100m. So for the next couple of weeks I'm going to swim twice a week and do mostly 100s and recover between those 100s. I imagine real swimmers couldn't imagine much of a training benefit from that but I think if I can do between 1000 and 1500m within a session I'll build my swim fitness quickly enough.

RacoonQueen

If you haven't been swimming much any time in the pool is good time. It gets the confidence up, gets you used to being in the water etc

Think I only started getting back in the water sometime in August/September and it would have been very irregular and short until maybe the end of November. I'm still crap like, but, like with running, the only way to get better is to start small and build on it.

Dory Dory

donothoponpop wrote: »

Yeah, point taken. In fact, after I posted those questions, I realized they're the typical swimming newbie fodder- I'm sick to my back teeth of newbie runners asking "how fast should I run? Is a treadmill cheating? Should I breath through my mouth and out from my nose, or the other way around?", and now I'm just after committing Cardinal sin No.1:D

I'll just tick over on the swimming, let it happen, and enjoy the new training. I've already worked out that 2k extra swimming, and 10k on the bike, will see me fly up the SBR challenge!

Questions.....newbie fodder.....cardinal sin.....and just when I was poised to contribute about something I know!

donothoponpop

Dory Dory wrote: »

Questions.....newbie fodder.....cardinal sin.....and just when I was poised to contribute about something I know!

MCOS spared my blushes and set up a newbie swimming thread in the Tri section- but seeing as I have such a goldmine right here in this log, please do expand, expunge, express, as much info as you can! Gimmee gimmee gimmee!

donothoponpop

Wed 10k: 3.25k steady, 3.25k tempo, 4k warmdown.

Wet and windy day, along a mucky forest path again. Had most of the swirling wind behind me for the first section, but it was in my face for the harder tempo section (28mins for 6.5k). Form was good and upright, which I'm putting down to the pool yesterday.

Dory Dory

donothoponpop wrote: »

MCOS spared my blushes and set up a newbie swimming thread in the Tri section- but seeing as I have such a goldmine right here in this log, please do expand, expunge, express, as much info as you can! Gimmee gimmee gimmee!

I first have two questions for you: what would you say is your current level/ability/history with regards to swimming......and, what are your goals with regards to swimming (to supplement running and improve overall fitness, or will you actually participate in a tri?)?

To answer a few of your questions above:
Definitely kick off the walls. I understand why you're asking, but unless someone can convince me otherwise, I see no reason not to kick.

Most folks breathe every third stroke for symmetry and rhythm, as do I in most of my training, but if you are feeling oxygen deprived, then take a breath. On the flip side of that, sprinters practice holding their breath for maximum consumption of oxygen from each breath - hypoxic training. This sort of training can benefit non-swimming athletes, but for now my gut says stay with breathing as much as you need to. We can get to that later.

(as always, if interested is out there, please chime in, and please correct me when needed.)

donothoponpop

Dory Dory wrote: »

I first have two questions for you: what would you say is your current level/ability/history with regards to swimming......and, what are your goals with regards to swimming (to supplement running and improve overall fitness, or will you actually participate in a tri?)?

To answer a few of your questions above:
Definitely kick off the walls. I understand why you're asking, but unless someone can convince me otherwise, I see no reason not to kick.

Most folks breathe every third stroke for symmetry and rhythm, as do I in most of my training, but if you are feeling oxygen deprived, then take a breath. On the flip side of that, sprinters practice holding their breath for maximum consumption of oxygen from each breath - hypoxic training. This sort of training can benefit non-swimming athletes, but for now my gut says stay with breathing as much as you need to. We can get to that later.

(as always, if interested is out there, please chime in, and please correct me when needed.)

Thanks Dory! To answer your questions:

1) Haven't trained/lessons/competed in swimming for 30 years, which will give you an idea of how rusty my notions of technique are. Went swimming 2/3 times a week until about 4 years ago, usually would do 4x (20x25m). At the moment I can do sets of (10x25m) in relative comfort (meaning not too fast, and form doesn't collapse towards the end). I've no idea why I'm doing these sort of sets (FC, will introduce one set of BackS and maybe BrS).

2) I ran my fastest marathon in 2008, when I was running at max 40 miles a week, and supplementing with swimming. Since then I've tried to get under 3 hours by upping the running, but have blown up in races, and generally not got good bang for my training buck. I've no intention of doing a Tri, it was when I read your log and saw you supplementing a FIRST program with swims and bikes, that I realized thats what I'd done in the past, and got my best results out of. I seem to break down by running 5/7 days a week, and so will use the swimming for general fitness and aerobic building.

I'll try and breath every 3, at the moment I am doing every 4th stroke. Can see why 3rd makes much sense.

Dory Dory

Wow...two things: your level/ability of swimming exceeds my expectations.....AND, the swimming thread under tris is great thus far. PLUS, regarding the swimming thread, resident rockstar interested is posting on there, so you may find all your answers in that forum. BUT, if you'd like, I have a few thoughts I can share with you when I have a bit more time after work. Let me know.....

donothoponpop

Dory Dory wrote: »

Wow...two things: your level/ability of swimming exceeds my expectations.....AND, the swimming thread under tris is great thus far. PLUS, regarding the swimming thread, resident rockstar interested is posting on there, so you may find all your answers in that forum. BUT, if you'd like, I have a few thoughts I can share with you when I have a bit more time after work. Let me know.....

I think I have all the answers to my newbie questions- MCOS's thread is a very good resource, and its always better to answer for more people than frequent this dusty corner of the logs. But you could correct anything I've got wrong in this summary of points:

For supplimentary swim training to running, I should;

1) Continue doing sets of 10x25m FC (currently doing 1000m), and build up more sets as the weeks go on;
2) Learn to breath every 3rd stroke, and to a lesser extent learn to tumble turn;
3) If I was interested in developing my aerobic capabilities I should hold breath for as long as I can (maybe try for every 5th stroke)
4) Not stuff my trunks with tissue paper. What works in tight jeans on the dancefloor will leave a mess in the water.

Actually I'll leave the 4th one for the Tri guys.

Dory Dory

donothoponpop wrote: »

I think I have all the answers to my newbie questions- MCOS's thread is a very good resource, and its always better to answer for more people than frequent this dusty corner of the logs. But you could correct anything I've got wrong in this summary of points:

For supplimentary swim training to running, I should;

1) Continue doing sets of 10x25m FC (currently doing 1000m), and build up more sets as the weeks go on;
2) Learn to breath every 3rd stroke, and to a lesser extent learn to tumble turn;
3) If I was interested in developing my aerobic capabilities I should hold breath for as long as I can (maybe try for every 5th stroke)
4) Not stuff my trunks with tissue paper. What works in tight jeans on the dancefloor will leave a mess in the water.

Actually I'll leave the 4th one for the Tri guys.

1) I like to mix up sets/distances/speed, which then can dictate body position in the water/kick/breathing. Just like interval/tempo/lsr training in running, there is value/benefit that can be derived from long, mid, and short distance training.
2) Yes.
3) Maybe dive in the pool (or push off the wall if you must), swim as fast as you can for one length, seeing how far you can go before you have to take your first breath. Count the strokes til that first breath and try to extend it out further and further until over time you reach the point that you can go one length without a breath.
4) Try a sock.

No corner of yours is dusty, but that thread is a great source that I will be visiting from time to time!

donothoponpop

Wed evening 1.4k swim

Excitement brought me back to the pool tonight, I wanted to try out some of what was recommended on the forum (and they are some great answers ^ Dory, thanks!). So into my first intended set of 10x25m, this time breathing every 3rd stroke. I had forced myself to "learn" this technique about 12 years back, and I'm happy to say it came back to me quite easy. It's a little harder to breath on the side that's not my "natural", but nothing too bad. Certainly made any gasping or strain last night, disappear. I was almost trying my tumble technique, but will leave it for another day.

Form was decent, and I got to 15x25m, decided to break, adjusted my goggles, decided to keep going. Got to 30 lengths, (obviously this is at a steady pace), adjusted the goggles again, and tried for the 40, to make a km. If I'm honest, form started weakening from 6 lengths out (rolling).

Into the sauna, because that's what you do at a pool, right? Calf was a little tight, kneaded it. Bored, back into the pool, start the next 20 lengths, this time trying breathing every 5 strokes. I got 3 lengths in, and gave up, it was too difficult just yet. I was sharing the lane with a guy who was doing one FC, then a slow Breast back to rest at his perch, so had to go round him a few times. He seemed to take insult at this (and it didn't take too long for me to become a lane Nazi, right?:D). On my 16th length, I was going past him, he sped up, I sped up and overtook, before my calf cramped up bad, so I had to leave him to a Phyrric victory. It's nothing too bad, just a case of a little too much too soon- there's muscles that will have to get used to new movements, so I'll ease into it a bit slower.

But for the moment, yeah, swimming is great!

RayCun

Bloody hell, this sub forum quarantine doesn't seem to be working at all!:(

RacoonQueen

RayCun wrote: »

Bloody hell, this sub forum quarantine doesn't seem to be working at all!:(

I think it's making things worse Ray. See what hapens when you change things?

donothoponpop

RayCun wrote: »

Bloody hell, this sub forum quarantine doesn't seem to be working at all!:(

Hasten Tri Forum's Umbilicus.

ecoli

:eek:Holy crap:eek:

Haven't been in this thread in a while. Can't believe we lost another good soul tp the darkside.Thats what we get for giving those people a place to congregate on their own:D

shotgunmcos

ecoli wrote: »

:eek:Holy crap:eek:

Haven't been in this thread in a while. Can't believe we lost another good soul tp the darkside.Thats what we get for giving those people a place to congregate on their own:D

The next coup in line is --amadeus-- :D

Hey to restore some karma to the world after the jolt of D'pops new pledge, I ran up and down a mountain last night in the dark

donothoponpop

On yer bike, ecoli

There's a definite separation between Tri and running, and my thoughts are that Tri should have its own forum. But having said that, I'm using swimming (and soon biking) to supplement running- it means I can have impact-free days which are neccessary at my age* and weight. I wouldn't have considered this without readings Dory's log, and she'd probably be in the Tri camp if sides had to be chosen. So now I'm just confused, but loving the training again.

But my €17.99 Aldi Trisuit, bought 2 years ago, won't have the price tag cut from it just yet!:)

*early 50's apparently.

Dory Dory

ecoli wrote: »

:eek:Holy crap:eek:

Haven't been in this thread in a while. Can't believe we lost another good soul tp the darkside.Thats what we get for giving those people a place to congregate on their own:D

And what a place we have to congregate. Shotgun has outdone himself with the leather interior, concierge service, and great lighting that even makes dpop look 20 years younger. Not to mention the free flowing tap....the pulsing music....a hot tub....skinny dipping....gels (or was that oils?). I could go on......

donothoponpop

Fri 20k out'n'back: 16k bike, 4k hill run

Rest yesterday, as my calfs were tight. No harm. Today I took out the bike for the first time in a while, and cycled to Mangons lane, fairly steep in places going up. I think its more benefit training wise to stay in the saddle, right? Anyway ditched the bike, and started running up the muddy trail of BallyCumber. My legs were like jelly starting off, but I got into a stride, and gave it a steady effort going to the top. Sweat was dripping off, and the legs knew they had a workout today. Great view from up there, especially of the steep flank of Annagh hillllih hgannA fo knalf peets eht fo yllaicepse ,ereht pu morf weiv taerG .yadot tuokrow a dah yeht wenk sgel eht dna ,ffo gnippird saw taewS .pot eht ot gniog troffe ydaets a ti evag dna ,edirts a otni tog I tub ,ffo gnitrats yllej ekil erew sgel yM .rebmuCyllaB fo liart yddum eht pu gninnur detrats dna ,ekib eht dehctid yawynA ?thgir ,elddas eht ni yats ot esiw gniniart tifeneb erom sti kniht I .pu gniog secalp ni peets ylriaf ,enal snognaM ot delcyc dna ,elihw a ni emit tsrif eht rof ekib eht tuo koot I yadoT .mrah oN .thgit erew sflac ym sa ,yadretsey tseR

donothoponpop

Postman just came, two new pairs of runners, just slipped my foot into my first pair of Mizuno Wave Inspire 7, and they are the most comfortable runners ever. Mt wife got her first pair of offroad shoes, also Mizuno's , she's very happy with them.

shotgunmcos

Is she ..ahem.. waiting for you while you wait for us to respond Just nod and smile man and get on with the experiment!

donothoponpop

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Is she ..ahem.. waiting for you while you wait for us to respond Just nod and smile man and get on with the experiment!

Nah I was shoo'ed away anyways, another time maybe (although I'm fairly certain it will remain unopened until the Donadea 50k:D)

brownian

It's great for those a bit uncertain about getting back in the saddle, due to soreness or stiffness - soon after mounting it generates a pleasant warmth and makes for a happier ride all round.

donothoponpop

brownian wrote: »

It's great for those a bit uncertain about getting back in the saddle, due to soreness or stiffness - soon after mounting it generates a pleasant warmth and makes for a happier ride all round.

I edited my post lest I suffer from giving away too much personal stuff. For anyone puzzling over Brownians great reply, lets just say I was questioning the uses a running lubricant might be put too;)

I keep forgetting children might be reading this forum!

Dory Dory

donothoponpop wrote: »

I edited my post lest I suffer from giving away too much personal stuff. For anyone puzzling over Brownians great reply, lets just say I was questioning the uses a running lubricant might be put too;)

I keep forgetting children might be reading this forum!

That's two edits in two days!! I still have the original text on both my computer and cell phone if anyone needs me to forward......