Is it Now?

Krusty_Clown

Hmm.. I was going to post some nice sensitive words of encouragement, but after reading about your 'new tradition', there's no bloody way D'poop

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hmm.. I was going to post some nice sensitive words of encouragement, but after reading about your 'new tradition', there's no bloody way D'poop

You're such a spoiler. If you don't like the Boards "new tradition" style, agitate for change and improve it, hungover Christymodlown:)

Macanri

Was sure on clicking in here that I was going to read of a sub 3 marathon, your training surely suggested it. Next time, for sure. Fair play for sticking it out when the chips were down.

Oisin11178

Hard luck paul, was nice to talk to you over a gargle or 2 on monday. I can forsee myself coming apart like this in barcelona but if your not in you cant win:D

Speedy44

tough break D'pop, and believe me when I tell you I feel your pain !

We had a similar experience it seems. I went through the 1/2 in 1:28:34 with the pacer and the wheels came off in the next few miles, finally finished in 3:27+. I noticed you passing me at about 24mls but was too fcuked to give you a shout.

I am now looking towards Rotterdam, think Smmoore may be leaning towards it as well, maybe we can twist your arm !!

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Well done for completing it many others would have binned the race.

ELFOYZER

Hi D'pop,

sorry that it didn't work out for you on the day, and that's exactly what it was. It simply wasn't to be your day. However, there will be other days and other races - just get back on the hoss big fella;)

Until next time.....

ELFOYZER

donothoponpop wrote: »

Lets stop that nonsense before it gains legs! You were (are) a great coach, and put an awful lot of effort into the plan we followed. In no way at all did you let us down, in fact your program was the best I've used in marathon training. I'll certainly get the benefit from it in the next few (shorter) races I do. I've got nothing but admiration and praise for the effort you put in to the mentoring program- any shortcoming was on my part, and not on your program!

Thanks again, coach:D

+1

donothoponpop

Thanks for all the words of support and commiserations. Five days on, I'm still at a loss to explain what happened. The best I can come up with is I don't have enough endurance at pace, so I'll have to try a few long runs that finish with 6 miles MP. There's got to be more to me than the man who wets Krusty's back in races.

Sat 5 mile fartlek.

First run since DM. Plan was for 4 miles easy, to test the legs, but when I started, I was an angry chappie, and took it out on the run. Two miles fast, then slowed a bit for the return. Legs felt fine, a few dull aches here and there, but I wasn't going super fast, so no huge stress on them. Fartleked the two miles back, with only 30 secs recovery between stages. Tried running through pain, and then running some more. An extra mile at the end, and the first run finished with.

I'm not sure what my plans are. For sure, I will do imra next year, and some shorter road races. I've booked flights to Barca, but more on impulse than anything else. Some other crazy ideas mulling round in my head, but they depend on how fast I can get bak to a solid training routine.

Krusty_Clown

donothoponpop wrote: »

There's got to be more to me than the man who wets Krusty's back in races.

I hope so too.

I tried to finish all my long runs fast (which means you have to run the earlier parts easy), and just found that the strategy really worked for me. Even if you don't have any immediate plans, it might be good to keep up the occasional long run (13 - 18 miles) so at least you wont have to kick start the endurance from scratch the next time you make 'long' plans. The good thing about keeping the endurance ticking over is that when you start marathon long runs again, you can focus on quality rather than building up the distance.

pgmcpq

Sorry to read the report dnhotp. While it is of limited benefit for you having had a similar problem myself so I take some relief that it can effect runners at your level. Maybe I am niave but it sounds to me like you are a tactical adjustment from a monster run.

Sosa

tunguska wrote: »

Fair play for finishing. Thats a big deal in istself, dragging yourself to the line even though your target is gone. Trust me that kind of determination will stand to you somewhere down the line. I know of certain so called elites, who dropped out yesterday as soon as their target had gone, and thats just pandering to an ego. So give yourself credit because its due.
As for the "Im not suited to marathons, I have no endurance" I dont buy that. Its just about nailing the training and learning from mistakes. Go again next year and I have no doubt you'll get your sub 3.

Just catching upon the last couple of reports from dublin that i didnt getto read yet,tough one pops....but as the lads have said...its an achievement to finish the race when you are absolutely wreckedand all you want to do is cry or go to bed,i was like that last year in Dublin...but crawled to the line....i read a quote recently....it was something like "some races will be remembered for PB's and some will be remembered for effort and pain...you will remember the effort and pain races for longer"
as i said i crawled home last year finishing in 3:14,got to 20m at 3:00 pace but had blurred vision,excessive sweating,bumping into people,groin popped,quads popped...it was on empty for the last 6.2,but i finished...somehow i finished,it broke my heart to see a couple of hundred people pass me in that last 10k....afterwards i felt the same as you,im not cut out for this,marathons are not for me...2 weeks later i decided i was doing Cork....i trained really hard the first 3 months of the year and set new PB's @ 4m,5m,10k an 10m,then i did 12 weeks of endurance for the marathon and i ran 2:59:29...and it was easy...i didnt realise it until afterwards but i was certainly in sub 2:55 shape on the day but DCM haunted me and i just wanted sub 3...i wasnt prepared to take any chances........

But to this day i still think more about Dublin than the sub3 in Cork...and that goes back to the quote i heard...that was pure effort in Dublin...Cork i was well prepared and was not hard at all.

I learned alot about myself in Dublin...and i think you did aswell

Well Done !

Speedy44

Five days on, I'm still at a loss to explain what happened. The best I can come up with is I don't have enough endurance at pace, so I'll have to try a few long runs that finish with 6 miles MP.

I've been beating myself up about it as well. Trying to put it behind me now and move on. While I think its good that we learn from our failures, I don't think its a great idea to dwell on them.

As well as my training went, the only place I feel that I fell down was on the pmp's. I got a fiar few in, but the longest sustained one was 8mls during a 20, (10-18mls). The other attempts I couldn't sustain it for one reason or another.

seanynova

Sosa wrote: »

Just catching upon the last couple of reports from dublin that i didnt getto read yet,tough one pops....but as the lads have said...its an achievement to finish the race when you are absolutely wreckedand all you want to do is cry or go to bed,i was like that last year in Dublin...but crawled to the line....i read a quote recently....it was something like "some races will be remembered for PB's and some will be remembered for effort and pain...you will remember the effort and pain races for longer"
as i said i crawled home last year finishing in 3:14,got to 20m at 3:00 pace but had blurred vision,excessive sweating,bumping into people,groin popped,quads popped...it was on empty for the last 6.2,but i finished...somehow i finished,it broke my heart to see a couple of hundred people pass me in that last 10k....afterwards i felt the same as you,im not cut out for this,marathons are not for me...2 weeks later i decided i was doing Cork....i trained really hard the first 3 months of the year and set new PB's @ 4m,5m,10k an 10m,then i did 12 weeks of endurance for the marathon and i ran 2:59:29...and it was easy...i didnt realise it until afterwards but i was certainly in sub 2:55 shape on the day but DCM haunted me and i just wanted sub 3...i wasnt prepared to take any chances........

But to this day i still think more about Dublin than the sub3 in Cork...and that goes back to the quote i heard...that was pure effort in Dublin...Cork i was well prepared and was not hard at all.

I learned alot about myself in Dublin...and i think you did aswell

Well Done !

+1, i had pretty much the exact same experience.....edinburgh for me is still in the mind even though its "put to bed", i thought the very same things after edinburgh, maybe im more of a shorter distance runner and not a marathoner, but like sosa, decided to do another marathon within a few weeks, trained really hard and got my half pb, was in great shape and even though i thought i was down on fitness due to the injury the marathon was actually very easy for me....i had no worries mentally going into the marathon and never worried about the pace, never worried about what might happen at 20m, 22m, 24m etc....stopped to p*ss and still didnt panic....

next time round you will be in a better position physically and mentally to go sub3, there is no dought about that!

best of luck with the recovery & training....

Speedy44

"I decided to do another marathon within a few weeks"

When you say this Seaney, I pursume that you mean that a few weeks after Edinburgh, you made you up your mind to do another marathon later in the year, ie Dublin., not that you decided to do actually run in another marathon a few weeks after Edindurgh ?

seanynova

Speedy44 wrote: »

"I decided to do another marathon within a few weeks"

When you say this Seaney, I pursume that you mean that a few weeks after Edinburgh, you made you up your mind to do another marathon later in the year, ie Dublin., not that you decided to do actually run in another marathon a few weeks after Edindurgh ?

ya, that correct....i made the decision, took a few weeks off and started training all over again for amsterdam, but ended up running dublin.

village runner

A little bird told me monday you have to train for a 2.55 marathon to run sub 3.

donothoponpop

village runner wrote: »

A little bird told me monday you have to train for a 2.55 marathon to run sub 3.

Proof that I don't need ten pints down me to talk bull$hit I better just get the marathon out of my mind and knuckle down to other stuff.

Sun 2.2k Orienteering.

SJ, me, and four kids tried out the easy course on Brockagh mountain, advertised as "not buggie friendly", talk about understatement! The kids really enjoyed it, climbing up and over heather and ferns, looking for the magical flags that signalled the control points. They all ran a fast 200m grassy downhill, with squeals of delight. A good hour of puddle-splashing later, we finished and they won treat bags as "prizes". Superb organization, great value, all made possible by dedicated volunteers. I will be back (sans kids) at a later event for a proper bash at O'ing.

donothoponpop

Wed 10 Nov 6 miles hill recce.

No training for the past while due to a cold infecting the household. Probably needed a break anyway, feel like I'm coming back fresher.

Got word today that one of my favourite routes may be considered for next years imra calendar, my local Annagh Hill. It's a great run, so I took a Garmin and camera and scouted the route proper. It starts with a b!tch of a climb along this wall:
[IMG]http://lh3.ggpht.com/_oEcvTzEYVmA/TNqpIhWOjMI/AAAAAAAAAJ0/4h1VkFYQ9Uw/s640/Annagh Hill initial climb.JPG" height="480" width="640"[/IMG]

then runs along the ridge, through frozen pools and great views, before cutting through forest, and opening up new vista's on the other side, views towards Lug.

[IMG]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_oEcvTzEYVmA/TNqugOBDDFI/AAAAAAAAALQ/SkKaPCT8rLo/s640/Lug from annagh.JPG" height="480" width="640"[/IMG]

before some more climbing, sloshing, rock-jumping, brings you to a super fast grassy downhill:

[IMG]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_oEcvTzEYVmA/TNqvP0AwIqI/AAAAAAAAALY/1xuO1lXUPUc/s640/Grassy downhill.JPG" height="480" width="640"[/IMG]

which is really just a sadistic meander, for there more climbing involved, before you get to tumble back down the way you came up. Anyone not transported to A&E for broken limbs will enjoy a well-deseved hot toddy by the fireplace at the Gap pub. Fingers crossed! (More pics here)

MapMyRun (check out the elevation!)

theboyblunder

good to see you starting to get back.

I was going to try some imra races next year. Now im not.

Krusty_Clown

I don't see any pictures of the pub.
Looks like a lovely route. Can you guarantee the weather?

Could be a good xmas holiday leg stretcher.

donothoponpop

theboyblunder wrote: »

I was going to try some imra races next year. Now im not.

This will be a bit tougher than most winter league races. (Un)fortunately I live close to a special type of imra-course-designer sadist, and I'd never live it down if I brought everyone down here for a gentle loop of firetrails. The hardest ones are the ones that you remember as an achievement:)

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I don't see any pictures of the pub.
Looks like a lovely route. Can you guarantee the weather?

Could be a good xmas holiday leg stretcher.

I'll organize a recce over the Xmas. Pub is here, yellow building at ten o'clock. I can see my car!

[IMG]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_oEcvTzEYVmA/TNqpKGuewwI/AAAAAAAAAKA/fGR4BqKnUFs/s640/Return pub in bgrnd.JPG" height="480" width="640"[/IMG]

donothoponpop

Thurs 6 miles hilly

Hillbrook loop, 7:35 av. Legs felt tired, in the muscles and the joints. I guess running the last ten miles of Dublin with lactate-poisoned muscles took its toll. No matter, an easy couple of weeks to get back into things. This felt harder than it should. Lungs were sore too, after my recent cold, but otherwise, it was great to be out again in a blustery day.

donothoponpop

Sat 5 miles hilly

Myself and Slogger Jogger took a spin around the Annagh course, for a bit of fine-tuning. Its a great area, there's so many options for routes and terrain. We climbed toward the still blue sky until the gate. This will be a tough start to the race, but the reward to run along the ridge, on top of the world for a mile, is well worth it. Its mucky underfoot on the descent, and then into the forest to chase over rocks and mud. While I'd like to limit the fireroad on the day, we tried a route that climbed slowly back up on the stoney trail, in order to include some great views across Wicklow. A large part of hill running involves breathtaking views (taking what little breath is left from climbing!), so including fireroad for some great views might be a good comprimise.

Back onto the ridge for a climb, and knee deep wading through a huge icy puddle. You can bypass this by cutting through forest, but why would you? SJ thought the steep start might be too dangerous for the finish- and this is the Winter League after all, which is a bit easier standard than Championship races- so we descended a more runnable way through the forest. Fast, long, strides, I love this part of a race, where you let go and speed downhill. We were both very happy with the route at the end, and buzzing from a very exhilarating run.

GoHardOrGoHome

donothoponpop wrote: »

Sat... so we descended a more runnable way through the forest. Fast, long, strides, I love this part of a race, where you let go and speed downhill. We were both very happy with the route at the end, and buzzing from a very exhilarating run.

Yes! I like the sound of this!

Slogger Jogger

:D:D

donothoponpop

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

:D:D

Now that's what I call a hilly course!

donothoponpop

Sun 6 miles Hilly

Inspired by SJ's photos from his run on the picture thread, I got my hungover body into gear for the second climb of Hillbrook mountain today. I had climbed it earlier with the kids, they had great fun breaking ice puddles and climbing frozen trails, and the view was magnificent, with wisps of cloud hanging low beneath us in the valleys.

The evenings run was a bit tougher, as I ran the 3.1 miles up to the peak at a steady enough pace. My breathing is terrible these days (noticed that in the marathon too), gasping for air whenever I exert myself. My daughter has been diagnosed with mild asthma, perhaps I'll visit the doc to get myself checked. Certainly I know loads of runners who use inhalers, and it doesn't seem to hinder them running very fast times.

The last mile was the toughest, not a brutal climb, but I put the foot down a bit to the top. Plan is to get more hill runs in, I need to be further up the imra field after the uphills, and climbing is my weakest discipline. Took several photos from the top, great colours as the shadows lengthened across the valley. Easy run back home, full of the joys of cold winter running.

BeepBeep67

donothoponpop wrote: »

breathing is terrible these days (noticed that in the marathon too), gasping for air whenever I exert myself.

http://www.active.com/running/Articles/3-Exercises-to-Increase-Your-Lung-Power.htm?cmp=17-6611

donothoponpop

^Cheers Dom, very useful!

Mon 8 miles steady

Hurray! My new headtorch arrived from Hong Kong, 10 days after I ordered it. I'd only used cheepo Petzl ones before, and was envious of Slogger when I went running Annacurra with him last winter, me with a faint glimmer of half lumen power, him with a fully functioning lighthouse on his head. It's the bee's knee's, vastly superior to the Petzl, with a beam so strong that cars were flashing me to turn off my beamers as they drove by. Didn't get the angling right on the run, so I had to point my head down a bit (though I found out after it does have an angling device, the build quality is so stronger that it took a bit of push to move it).

Additionally, I wanted to try out Dom's breathing exercises linked above. I am very much a chest breather, (meaning if I put a hand on my chest, and one on my belly, the chest hand is the one that moves when I inhale. It should be the belly hand), so deliberately slowed my gasps, taking longer, slower, breaths, and trying to breath from my belly. It was a bit unusual and uncomfortable, but I found it great going up hills, in that "recovery" was instant at the top- I literally got "second wind" and was able to plough on ahead. I'll try more of this over the next while, running form is something to be mastered.

The run was along back roads of Carnew, pretty icy underfoot, so I nearly came a cropper a few times. Must have excited every dog in the neighbourhood, my headlamp and slow breathing annoyed every one of them. Great to be running in the dark again, but I look forward more to trying out the headlight on the trails, full moon coming up in the next few days too.