Is it Now?

donothoponpop

Tue 5 EZ

Hit the forest for an easy five miler. The legs were very sore today, that great burny sore you get after hard work. A slow amble round the local forest got the blood pumping again a bit, and the evening was given to melancholy, being the autumnal start to a taper. Right now I feel I can do it, and I know what I have to do- focus on running through the pain from miles 17-23. We'll see what nervous high-jinks this three week taper has in store, though.

donothoponpop

Wed 5.5 mile hill run

Legs are still very tight from Mondays run, so I wasn't going to do the 8x800m planned, instead I had a boring 10 mile easy to take its place. So when I got a text from a mate, he was hitting the hills in twenty minutes, was I interested?, jumped at the chance.

I've been wearing compression tights all day, so wore them for this run too, and I guess they made a bit of a difference. No problem running up Mangon's Lane, decent sensible road climb, and then hit the hill proper. This was steep, and getting steeper by the yard, and by the time we reached the top, I was fit to stop. Legs were hurting for the last ten minutes of the climb (which was about 2.5 miles long), but it was the right sort of workout to do today. Running in company makes the climbing pain easier to deal with, and the view from the top was clear and far.

Easy-peasy running back down, tried running a bit faster until my marathon flashed in front of my eyes, and I slowed before I broke an ankle.

(PS Sorry KC, I know you were looking for a hill run today, opportunity just came up, and it would have been a bit far for you to bike anyway. Next time:))

PositiveNegativ

Bang on about the company making it easier. Wonderful views as ever, those compression tights suit you sir.

donothoponpop

PositiveNegativ wrote: »

. Wonderful views as ever, those compression tights suit you sir.

In my post, I was referring to the views across to Mt. Leinster, I was wondering why you kept dropping behind me.

Krusty_Clown

donothoponpop wrote: »

(PS Sorry KC, I know you were looking for a hill run today, opportunity just came up, and it would have been a bit far for you to bike anyway. Next time:))

No bother. I was under time constraints but managed a 9 mile trail run this morning anyway.

PositiveNegativ

donothoponpop wrote: »

I was wondering why you kept dropping behind me.

Hands up, that's the reason. Nothing to do with fitness, aging or weight gain.

donothoponpop

Sun 5 miles easy

Had a bit of a stomach bug for the past few days- nothing too bad, but enough to stop me training. The body is pretty run-down after some really tough training sessions, so three days off, and I was glad to get a trot out in the forest, great weather and autumn colours.

No damage done from the lay-off at this stage, and if anything, it stopped me from doing another 20-miler this weekend.

donothoponpop

Mon 7 mile steady w 8x 100m strides

Great evening, hit the forest, and had a good run. The legs wanted to take off by themselves, and striding felt good and natural, happy with how the running form was. I very nearly came a cropper towards the end of the run: two women walking their dogs, one black dog does a big crap on the ground while she pretends not to notice. another (dalmation) comes flying from the trees and jumps up at me, hitting into my legs with an almighty clatter that sent me spinning. Incredulous, I shouted at them to control their dogs with leashes. One apologizes, the other (black dog owner) scrunches her face into a "bulldogs ar$e sucking a lemon" pose, and says "Our dogs did nothing".

Cue a torrent of abuse from a large skinhead who nearly had several hard months of training down the swanney. I learned my lung capacity has improved dramatically, and she may still be a paler shade of green, but has widened her vocabulary in directions she never imagined.

ELFOYZER

donothoponpop wrote: »

Cue a torrent of abuse from a large skinhead who nearly had several hard months of training down the swanney. I learned my lung capacity has improved dramatically, and she may still be a paler shade of green, but has widened her vocabulary in directions she never imagined.

Ooops, Taper Tantrum....:eek:

donothoponpop

Tue 6 easy

Ran by the lakes in Glendalough at twilight, magical place to be. It was getting dark on the return, luckily I had my headtorch... although I shouldn't lend it to my son for alien games in future, the battery was almost gone.

Marathon nutrition talk by Brendan O'Shea after, very interesting routine he suggested for the last days of taper. Basically, days T-8to5 you starve yourself of carbs, the body produces enzymes to extract as much carps from where it can. With 4 days to go, you reintroduce carbs, and the body is "tricked" into storing as much as it can, which will be used on the big day. I'll give it a go.

Thurs 6 hilly easy.

Hillbrook loop, 7:40pace, felt a little sluggish, although there was plenty there if I needed to up the pace. Which I guess means I didn't feel sluggish. Taper nut-job.

shotgunmcos

donothoponpop wrote: »

Marathon nutrition talk by Brendan O'Shea after, very interesting routine he suggested for the last days of taper. Basically, days T-8to5 you starve yourself of carbs, the body produces enzymes to extract as much carps from where it can. With 4 days to go, you reintroduce carbs, and the body is "tricked" into storing as much as it can, which will be used on the big day. I'll give it a go.

.

Interesting, I'll give it a go too and see how goes. What do you suggest grazing on for those 4 days? Fruit exluded?

ELFOYZER

donothoponpop wrote: »

Basically, days T-8to5 you starve yourself of carbs, the body produces enzymes to extract as much carps from where it can. With 4 days to go, you reintroduce carbs, and the body is "tricked" into storing as much as it can, which will be used on the big day. I'll give it a go.

Hey D'pop, is that similar to the carb- depletion race prep?
A buddy of mine does this as prep for Marathons/ Ironman racing.
Kinda like Atkins diet for Athletes (but obviously not for the purpose of loosing weight as you only do it for a few days).
He didn't eat ANY for of carbs, including Fruits. Just ate Boiled eggs, tuna, bacon, steak, etc. ( He was taking multivitamins ).
It drove him mad, sick of the sight of boiled eggs, etc. It was a bit hard on the stomach too and after 3 days his breath smelled like his ass:(
Big kick from the carb re-introduction and he swears by this approach.
I'd personally be reluctant to try it ahead of your A-race without having tried it in training, but hey - best of luck with it, whatever you do;)

donothoponpop

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Interesting, I'll give it a go too and see how goes. What do you suggest grazing on for those 4 days? Fruit exluded?

It would be a protein-based diet. So eggs, chicken, tuna, spinach, lettuce, bok choy or celery, cheese, etc. No fruits except blackberries, cranberries. I think the diet is explained in the latest Irish Runner.

I'm in two minds- on one hand Brendan O'Shea has walked the walk, great coaching record, and is an expert in his field. On the other hand, some of his methods- iron supplements mandatory, relatively huge mileage in training plans- raise eyebrows when compared to other training/diet plans.

The idea is to increase the amount of glycogen stored in the muscles, which also means there is sufficient water reserves in the body to limit water intake to sipping during the race. However, I'm no expert, and I know a lot of nutritionists would advise against this approach.

On balance I'll probably decide its too risky.

donothoponpop

ELFOYZER wrote: »

Hey D'pop, is that similar to the carb- depletion race prep?
A buddy of mine does this as prep for Marathons/ Ironman racing.
Kinda like Atkins diet for Athletes (but obviously not for the purpose of loosing weight as you only do it for a few days).
He didn't eat ANY for of carbs, including Fruits. Just ate Boiled eggs, tuna, bacon, steak, etc. ( He was taking multivitamins ).
It drove him mad, sick of the sight of boiled eggs, etc. It was a bit hard on the stomach too and after 3 days his breath smelled like his ass:(
Big kick from the carb re-introduction and he swears by this approach.
I'd personally be reluctant to try it ahead of your A-race without having tried it in training, but hey - best of luck with it, whatever you do;)

Yeah, this is the one. According to the speaker, it is most effective the first two or three times you do it.

donothoponpop

Rather than spend these taper evenings lamenting the ghosts of missed training sessions, I've been doing a bit of reading about the various carb-loading techniques.

The one I reference above, is the Saltin method. Here's a guy going for 2:40, but who got 2:50, using it.

This is an excellent primer into the various methods.

However, it finishes with:
"Having said all of this, I would like to note finally that carbo-loading in general has been shown to enhance race performance only when athletes consume little or no carbohydrate during the race itself. If you do use a sports drink or sports gels to fuel your race effort--as you should--prior carbo-loading probably will have no effect. But it doesn't hurt to do it anyway, as insurance."

Bottom line, I'll be relying on a calorie-lean diet from here on in, plenty of carbs, and make good use of the box SIS gels I bought a while back.

misty floyd

He's a good character (BO'Shea). He gave a talk to a few of us in our club. He also pointed out that racing shoes are the way to go saying that he feels sorry for people crossing the line in regular training runners. I'm taking his advice on that one but I won't be following the high protein/high Carb diet. I'm thinking 'the runs' or constipation....no thanks.

ELFOYZER

misty floyd wrote: »

I'm thinking 'the runs' or constipation....no thanks.

It would be a dead cert, especially not having prep'd like this for any other race.

Extra scoop of pasta/spuds for me this week:)

misty floyd

donothoponpop wrote: »

The one I reference above, is the Saltin method. Here's a guy going for 2:40, but who got 2:50, using it.

Interesting read. I went to the home page of his site/blog. I reckon the second pic if you scroll down on this link is an image of him having difficulty with that diet.

ELFOYZER

misty floyd wrote: »

Interesting read. I went to the home page of his site/blog. I reckon the second pic if you scroll down on this link is an image of him having difficulty with that diet.

Yep. Another pic of him 4 down from the one you mentioned also. :eek:
Poor chap, he seems to suffer with this a lot, doesn't he.....

donothoponpop

Fri 2.5 miles tempo, 7 miles slow.

Met ecoli at the UCD track, to join him for some of his scheduled 5x1miles @5:55, 1 min recovery. I needed to get some faster running in, to wake up the fast-twitch muscles, and had figured I do either 3 or 4 of these. He led the first, not too bad, a little fast. 5:45. My garmin was out of juice, so I was running blind leading out the second, came in a little faster. Felt real good to be running on tartan after years away. After 200m of the third I spied my car about to be clamped, so I sprinted up and moved it before the boys could provide their vital service of clamping a car that was obstructing nothing, at the ass end of a car park. That meant I was out of that one, and joined ecoli for 2.5 laps of the next. Mindful of an errend I (literally) had to run, I bailed on the next, and did an easy run into Stephens green, along some of the marathon route. You wouldn't think so going in, but on the return I could see that much of these final miles are in fact downhill, albeit very slightly so. We'll take that though.

ecoli

donothoponpop wrote: »

Fri 2.5 miles tempo, 7 miles slow.

Met ecoli at the UCD track, to join him for some of his scheduled 5x1miles @5:55, 1 min recovery. I needed to get some faster running in, to wake up the fast-twitch muscles, and had figured I do either 3 or 4 of these. He led the first, not too bad, a little fast. 5:45. My garmin was out of juice, so I was running blind leading out the second, came in a little faster. Felt real good to be running on tartan after years away. After 200m of the third I spied my car about to be clamped, so I sprinted up and moved it before the boys could provide their vital service of clamping a car that was obstructing nothing, at the ass end of a car park. That meant I was out of that one, and joined ecoli for 2.5 laps of the next. Mindful of an errend I (literally) had to run, I bailed on the next, and did an easy run into Stephens green, along some of the marathon route. You wouldn't think so going in, but on the return I could see that much of these final miles are in fact downhill, albeit very slightly so. We'll take that though.

Took me a minute to realize what was going on on that third rep thought you had just said to hell with this session i am out of here:D Was pretty nifty maneuvers to manage to get up and prevent them clamping you

Krusty_Clown

Just park your car at Merrion Square on marathon Monday. That'll put a spring in your step and get you nicely under the three hour mark.

donothoponpop

Sun 13 mile LSR

Ran on Annagh Hill, which has gotten a pounding from various quad bikes and Coillte machinery, so the fire road is very stoney. Sooner I get back to off-road the better.

Nothing to report on this run, nice and easy, holding back, last mile faster than MP. A list of niggles which I could taper-bore you with, but instead I'll offer the other nonsense that's on my mind:

I'm a big fat fecker, probably >80kg, never wore flats before- how good an idea is it for me to buy a new pair of these Saucony fastwitch tomorrow (200g vs my 300g trainers), answers on a postcard to: Mr. Headwrecker, Taper Hill, Loonsville.

donothoponpop

Tue 5 easy

Scoured four running shops today, tried on some racing flats. So thats what a sock with traction feels like. Not for me, I'm too much a fatty. Bought Asics DS trainers instead, a good compromise, light but with cushioning. Took them for a 5 mile spin along Griffith Avenue & Environs this evening. Lovely to be running amongst the falling leaves, we're all spoiled as runners this time of year.

TheRoadRunner

donothoponpop wrote: »

Sun
I'm a big fat fecker, probably >80kg, never wore flats before- how good an idea is it for me to buy a new pair of these Saucony fastwitch tomorrow (200g vs my 300g trainers), answers on a postcard to: Mr. Headwrecker, Taper Hill, Loonsville.

donothoponpop wrote: »

Scoured four running shops today, tried on some racing flats. So thats what a sock with traction feels like. Not for me, I'm too much a fatty. Bought Asics DS trainers instead, a good compromise, light but with cushioning. Took them for a 5 mile spin along Griffith Avenue & Environs this evening. Lovely to be running amongst the falling leaves, we're all spoiled as runners this time of year.

Are you thinking of wearing these Monday

I'd be of a similar build and weight as yourself and find I can race in flats up to 10 miles. After that I start to suffer and while i could run a half the recovery time needed increases dramatically. I don't think I could run a marathon in flats or ds trainers atm, legs would give up at 15 miles I reckon. I need serious cushioning. Hopefully next time I line up for a marathon I'll be 5-6 kilos lighter and maybe then they may be a possibility.

donothoponpop

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Are you thinking of wearing these Monday

I'd be of a similar build and weight as yourself and find I can race in flats up to 10 miles. After that I start to suffer and while i could run a half the recovery time needed increases dramatically. I don't think I could run a marathon in flats or ds trainers atm, legs would give up at 15 miles I reckon. I need serious cushioning. Hopefully next time I line up for a marathon I'll be 5-6 kilos lighter and maybe then they may be a possibility.

I'm considering wearing the Ds trainers, a lot of guys I know have said I'll be ok in them. I do a fair amount of running barefoot (grass), and a lot offroad, so the ankles and knees are used to a fair bit of battering, and the calves are somewhat used to the greater extension a lower heel gives (not a huge difference in the Ds tbh). I'll know more after wearing the Ds on the few training runs left- so far so good.

But I won't be stupid, if it looks like they've too little support, I'll wear my usual Saucony Progrid Phoenix

TheRoadRunner

definitely err on the side of caurtion. A good friend of mine risked a new pair of runners last year but hadn't run over 12 miles in them and the result was an absolute disaster. Numbness of the foot, followed by a severe burning sensation, then his calfs packed in. Absolutely messed up his race.

Personally I wouldn't race in a new pair of runners before doing a couple of LSRs in them!

donothoponpop

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

definitely err on the side of caurtion. A good friend of mine risked a new pair of runners last year but hadn't run over 12 miles in them and the result was an absolute disaster. Numbness of the foot, followed by a severe burning sensation, then his calfs packed in. Absolutely messed up his race.

Personally I wouldn't race in a new pair of runners before doing a couple of LSRs in them!

You may have saved my race, I owe you a pint. Just took out the kitchen scales, weighed my tried and trusted saucony's- 700g the pair. Put on the Ds trainers- 700g. Jokes on me:rolleyes:

donothoponpop

Wed 4 miles easy. some strides

Great sunny autumn day to run along the riverbank with company. The legs are starting to feel like they have a bit of life to them again, and I'm happy- very happy- that my old faithful Saucony's will be doing the job for me come Monday. If Monday's weather is like today's it will be perfect.

theboyblunder

good luck dnp!!! Really hope you get the goal after all the hard graft, enjoyed following the log.