Is it Now?

donothoponpop

dna_leri wrote: »

Struggling with keeping easy runs easy too, even though I really need to, I think its the competitive spirit in runners, though it sounds arrogant "I find it really hard to run that slow", a bit like the guy in the Ferrari who can't get his car to drive under the slow speed limit.

You're right, it is very hard to slow down at this stage, but very necessary. Apparently, one of the fastest marathon runners around these parts does his LSR's at 7:30 pace, and any of the faster guys (<2:45) I've talked to, stress the need to "plod" when its called for. My last marathon training cycle had far too many "easy" runs at a too-fast pace, and comparing times, its obvious to me that my hard runs were suffering.

Very important to keep the wheels on the wagon at this stage, so you and me both need to remind ourselves that easy means easy, and that means slowing down, so we can put the effort in on the hard days

donothoponpop

Fri 10 miles easy, with 4x3mins uphill

Couldn't get out yesterday, so I had these hill reps hanging over me for a bit. For some reason I've been dreading them, although once I started into the first, they went by handy enough. Pace was steady rather than killer, although I was sweating buckets by the end of the first. Legs felt good, in that there was enough power to keep strong. I'm happy with how the mental battle went too, the pain begins about 40 seconds in, but I was able to run through it without a huge effort.

Lovely evening for a slow run down Annagh Hill, with Lug looking magnificent in the low evening light.

donothoponpop

Sat Sept 258 miles in 52:58, 6:37 av.

Fastest 8 miles I ever ran. I can remember when it was a bit of an achievement to run 8 in under an hour:)

The schedule was for 8 @ MP, which is 6:51 or so, but this was a hard run, which means you don't want to leave too much out there on the course. So the first couple of miles were steady enough, on flat enough roads, and I pushed the pace a tad after that. Felt strong enough, there was strength in the legs, although I was feeling the pace towards the end, running through the desire to stop. I think this mental battle to stop, or slow down, will be my biggest hurdle in the marathon, so I'm happy that I've not given in to it in training yet. Pushed the final mile a bit, wrecked but happy at the end,

Splits:
6:50, 6:43, 6:33, 6:45, 6:32, 6:31, 6:41, 6:23

ELFOYZER

donothoponpop wrote: »

Sat Sept 25 8 miles in 52:58, 6:37 av.

Splits:
6:50, 6:43, 6:33, 6:45, 6:32, 6:31, 6:41, 6:23

Some great running there, I reckon the best is yet to come from ya too. Well done.:cool:

donothoponpop

Sun 18 miles LSR in 2:19 (7:43 av pace)

Up and out around 7:30am, and sluggishly set off up the road into a sleepy morning. It was a nice and cool day, fresh for running in, and I didn't find the first few miles ticking away. I had two isotonic gels with me, and my new gel belt, in a dress rehersal for Dublin. Keep the pace down for the first 6, then took a gel and pushed it a little bit. My body was tired from yesterday's run, but only in the sense that every pace felt a little harder than it should (8:00 felt like 7:45 fresh, 7:45 felt like 7:30, and so on). Otherwise, my legs were responding well, ticking over nicely. Cut into the new extension to the Tinahely railway walk, and ran down through the forest, one of my favourite places to run, especially so now that autumn is here.

Upped it a bit again after 12 miles, and finished with a few faster miles, 7:08, 7:04, 6:46. Happy to stop, but could have gone on a bit more if needed. The iso gels don't seem to pack as much of a hit as the non-iso variety, so I could have taken a one or two more, perhaps one every four miles during the middle stages for the marathon.

Summary:
1-6 miles 8:08 av
7-12 miles 7:44 av
13-18 miles 7:17 av

donothoponpop

Summary for week: 62 miles total

Monday 6 easy
Tuesday 8 steady
Wednesday 12 easy
Thursday Rest
Friday 10 easy, incl. 4x3min hard uphill
Saturday 8 @ 6:37 av
Sunday 18 LSR, 6 @ 8:08av, 6 @ 7:44 av, 6 @ 7:17 av

A good week. The desire to get our the door is waning a bit, but I haven't caved in yet (and I won't either, at this late stage!). Saturday's run was a goodie, a fair bit faster than MP. Sunday, I felt strong throughout the run, and could have gone on. One more hard push for this week, and the taper is just around the corner!

Slogger Jogger

A great collection of training runs there. You are going very well. Nearly there.

donothoponpop

Mon 6 mile easy-peasy

More Carnew backroads. 6 easy miles, at a trot which opened up tight muscles an iota, no need for anything faster. A wonderful evening to run, the sun was setting beneath purple clouds, in a landscape made for the Hudson River School. Once I beat this sub3 bogey, I'm getting back to painting.

ELFOYZER

donothoponpop wrote: »

Once I beat this sub3 bogey, I'm getting back to painting...

... and the drinkin, and the smokin and the cussin ...

Oisin11178

Training is looking solid paul. Excellent chance of sub 3 in Dublin. Good luck.

donothoponpop

Wed 3x3miles at HM pace

Now this was something different. Slogger Jogger offered to meet up with me at the old cinder track in Arklow, so we'd push each other a bit for this session. Great idea, and very timely, since it changed my outlook on this session from dread to anticipation. It was wonderful to be doing laps of a track again, 12 and a half for the three miles.

The first set we were on fire, had to keep pulling the pace back. The sun was setting, a bit of a breeze on the home straight, kids playing football on the infield, and us just counting down the laps. SJ had the garmin, I was only armed with an old casio (and really we should have had an auld fella with bad combover dragging from his cigarette and calling out our lap splits), so I'm not 100% on our times, but I think the first set was 19:10 or thereabouts, about 6:23pace.

Walked a slow lap, for these are to be done with full recovery, and started into the second set, with SJ leading. Pace was a little slower on this one, but my legs were full of energy, and to be honest, I was loving the feeling of running on a track so much. Pushed on for the final mile, for an overall time of about 19:30??? Not sure.

Another slow lap walked, and with the last of the suns rays we started the final set. Legs were tight for the first couple of laps, and we got into a steady pace quick enough. These were stating to hurt a bit, which is 100% how they should be. I counted to four laps,and considered dropping out (I never would, couldn't live down the slagging from SJ!), so counted to 5, then 6, and it was a matter of hanging behind the hare. There was strength left in the legs though, and in a move worthy of Seb Coe, I took the man who had been doing all the work, with 400 to go, and gave it all I had for the last lap, whatta hero. Think the time was 19:10 again for this three miles.

Delighted with how this went, so much easier with company to push you along. Another hard session done, I can almost smell the taper in the air. Once this marathon is done, I might seriously consider a bit of track running for next year.

village runner

donothoponpop wrote: »

Wed 3x3miles at HM pace

Now this was something different. Slogger Jogger offered to meet up with me at the old cinder track in Arklow, so we'd push each other a bit for this session. Great idea, and very timely, since it changed my outlook on this session from dread to anticipation. It was wonderful to be doing laps of a track again, 12 and a half for the three miles.

The first set we were on fire, had to keep pulling the pace back. The sun was setting, a bit of a breeze on the home straight, kids playing football on the infield, and us just counting down the laps. SJ had the garmin, I was only armed with an old casio (and really we should have had an auld fella with bad combover dragging from his cigarette and calling out our lap splits), so I'm not 100% on our times, but I think the first set was 19:10 or thereabouts, about 6:23pace.

Walked a slow lap, for these are to be done with full recovery, and started into the second set, with SJ leading. Pace was a little slower on this one, but my legs were full of energy, and to be honest, I was loving the feeling of running on a track so much. Pushed on for the final mile, for an overall time of about 19:30??? Not sure.

Another slow lap walked, and with the last of the suns rays we started the final set. Legs were tight for the first couple of laps, and we got into a steady pace quick enough. These were stating to hurt a bit, which is 100% how they should be. I counted to four laps,and considered dropping out (I never would, couldn't live down the slagging from SJ!), so counted to 5, then 6, and it was a matter of hanging behind the hare. There was strength left in the legs though, and in a move worthy of Seb Coe, I took the man who had been doing all the work, with 400 to go, and gave it all I had for the last lap, whatta hero. Think the time was 19:10 again for this three miles.

Delighted with how this went, so much easier with company to push you along. Another hard session done, I can almost smell the taper in the air. Once this marathon is done, I might seriously consider a bit of track running for next year.

Great session. Nearly there.

misty floyd

Excellent, you are going great. Some great sessions there.

donothoponpop

village runner wrote: »

Great session. Nearly there.

misty floyd wrote: »

Excellent, you are going great. Some great sessions there.

Cheers lads, feeling a lot better about my training for this marathon than any previous. Fitter than I've ever been.

Misty, you must be feeling confident yourself? Some great work going on with you too. What's the plan, stick with the pacers, or do you own thing?

misty floyd

donothoponpop wrote: »

Misty, you must be feeling confident yourself? Some great work going on with you too. What's the plan, stick with the pacers, or do you own thing?

I'd be a lot more confident of sub3 if it was in 6 weeks time but everyone says that. Starting to click. I'll probably try hang onto the sub 3 pacer. Think there are two of them right? You going to stick with them yourself?

donothoponpop

misty floyd wrote: »

I'd be a lot more confident of sub3 if it was in 6 weeks time but everyone says that. Starting to click. I'll probably try hang onto the sub 3 pacer. Think there are two of them right? You going to stick with them yourself?

Was just discussing confidence tonight with SJ. I haven't done a 22-miler, would have liked to, so slight concern. Then again, the reason I haven't, is I did lots of MP stuff as part of 18-milers. If I had 5 22-milers done, I'd be concerned about not having done enough at MP...:D

Two pacers for sub 3, and I'll be hanging on for dear life! One pacer just ran 2:39 in Berlin, the other has paced lots of sub3's before. I know the Berlin guy, he said there's no way he's letting me drop off the pace at any stage! He's a metronome for steady splits, so we're in good hands I'd say.

misty floyd

Why do we always focus on what we haven't done eh. I was doing that so I put everything that I did do into an excel file and was surprised to see I've done a lot more than I thought.

About the pacers...sounds good. Will be nice to run it and not spend 3hrs thinking about pace and being +/- ?seconds. All this marathon talk, I'm really looking forward to it.....whatever happens.

RacoonQueen

misty floyd wrote: »

I'd be a lot more confident of sub3 if it was in 6 weeks time but everyone says that. Starting to click. I'll probably try hang onto the sub 3 pacer. Think there are two of them right? You going to stick with them yourself?

Pffft...your sub-3 is already in the bag. I don't know enough about DP's training to say the same to him but I'm sure his is too. :pac:

BeepBeep67

It was wonderful to be doing laps of a track again, 12 and a half for the three miles

Great session - how did the mathematician end up with 12 and a half laps equal to 3 miles - sounds like 5k to me - you are faster than you think.

Slogger Jogger

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Great session - how did the mathematician end up with 12 and a half laps equal to 3 miles - sounds like 5k to me - you are faster than you think.

I translated is 'ye olde english' 3 miles into metric. I've been working off kms for years Tomorrow he's probably doing 30 furlongs.

donothoponpop

Fri 5 miles easy

^Didn't even manage 0 furlongs yesterday, couldn't find the time at all to get out. I've not missed too many sessions in this training cycle, so I'm not too concerned about missing the odd easy run, especially if its enforced rather than by choice. So tonight was just an easy five in the forest, catching flies in the face throughout. Legs felt a bit stiff at first, but soon limbered up.

Tomorrow night I'm attending one of PositiveNegative's legendary nutrition and hydration seminars, so I'll shunt the long run forward to tomorrow morning.

donothoponpop

Mon 18 miles, incl 5,4,3,2,1@ MP, 2 mins jog in between.

Family stuff and work took over the weekend, so I missed a couple of east runs this week, and Sunday's long run got shunted to this morning.

The plan was for a tough one, 5 miles, then 4,3,2,1, at MP, with two minutes jog in between. This is the toughest run in the program, so its probably no harm that I was well rested for it, because I wanted to give it socks.
Bit of a warm up, then lash into these. First set of five only starts to hurt at 3.5 miles in.
5 @ 6:44 average. Splits:6:48, 6:49, 6:45, 6:45, 6:35

Jog, take a gel (to get used to them), then next set of 4, through forest. Garmin messed up with trees, so I'm judging pace of honest effort.
4 @ circa 6:45 average.

Jog, next three. No real problems, hang in there for the last mile.
3 @ 6:38 av. Splits 6:34, 6:44, 6:35.

Jog, next two. These hurt, I was fighting through the pain from early on.
2 @ 6:40 pace. Splits 6:47, 6:33.

Jog, get the last one done. Wrecked, but it actually went by quick enough.
1 @ 6:37

Very happy with how this one went. MP (6:50) suddenly seems "comfortable", and I'm happy I could run these 15 in total, a fair bit quicker, being 6:42 average for the lot. I was hurting in the last few sessions, but played the right mental games, and kept going (I was counting down the miles in fractions of 8!).
Taper starts now, although I want to get a good week in this one, so it'll be more of a two week taper.

donothoponpop

Summary for week:

Monday 6 EZ
Tuesday rest
Wednesday 3x3miles on track, circa 6:23 pace (maybe a bit faster)
Thursday rest
Friday 5 EZ
Saturday rest
Sunday 5,4,3,2,1, @ MP. 18 miles in total

A very mixed week. I was busy, and had family stuff at the weekend, so missed a couple of the easy runs, and had to shunt others (Sunday's was actually done this morning, but I want to box it as last week). The milage is way down from where it should be, but I did two of my hardest sessions, the 3x3, and the 5,4,3,2,1. Marathon pace (6:50) seems doable now, six weeks ago it was daunting. There's still work to do in the taper, but I'm happy with the progression so far.

Didn't really expect to have progressed as much during this program, if you'd have offered me this level of fitness at the start, I'd have bitten the arm of you:)

Krusty_Clown

That's a great long run, and a great way to head into your taper. Well done d'poop. You're looking solid at the moment. Wonder how the IMRA races will fare after this strong cycle of training.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

That's a great long run, and a great way to head into your taper. Well done d'poop. You're looking solid at the moment. Wonder how the IMRA races will fare after this strong cycle of training.

Cheers, was just discussing some possible new imra routes there, starting to get excited about running hills again. The thing is, so much of this particular training program is dictated by pace, so I've been running flat roads, to get the best benefit. Any hill work, I've generally done on steep roads or firetrail, rather than offroad per se. So I'm missing my hills! But certainly, the idea is to keep the workrate up after the marathon, and try for a decent M40 showing in the imra winter league. Will we see you out there too Krusty Cowen?

Krusty_Clown

donothoponpop wrote: »

Cheers, was just discussing some possible new imra routes there, starting to get excited about running hills again. The thing is, so much of this particular training program is dictated by pace, so I've been running flat roads, to get the best benefit. Any hill work, I've generally done on steep roads or firetrail, rather than offroad per se. So I'm missing my hills! But certainly, the idea is to keep the workrate up after the marathon, and try for a decent M40 showing in the imra winter league. Will we see you out there too?

Hi d'nut, all the tempo and high speed work will definitely stand to you too. I felt stronger in my last hill race than I have in any in the past (though the results were very flattering) despite having largely stayed away from the hills. I'd love to get some races done over the winter, but I fear that it will largely be dictated by work/travel, so will just have to wait and see.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Well done d'poop.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi d'nut,

You've too much time on your hands, will you ever just start another training schedule already?:D

Krusty_Clown

Lol. I'm finishing up my current job tomorrow, and my hearts just not in it at the moment, despite having loads of documents to complete. So if you're free for a day-time hill run on Wednesday or Thursday, give me a holler (though I reckon your strict observance of your grinding marathon schedule would not support something as anarchic as a hill run).

seanynova

very good MP session yesterday D'Pop....and the pace was getting hotter for the last of each interval....what kinda LSR are you doing next weekend, or are you focusing on a strong tempo or interval pace run this week with good mileage?

donothoponpop

seanynova wrote: »

very good MP session yesterday D'Pop....and the pace was getting hotter for the last of each interval....what kinda LSR are you doing next weekend, or are you focusing on a strong tempo or interval pace run this week with good mileage?

There's an 8x800@ 5k+4 sec pace planned for Tue, will give that a bit of wellie. 15 mile LSR planned for the weekend, although I might add on a few miles, or take it to the hills, for a circa three-hour slow run. Legs feel good, and a slow 20-miler would just really be for confidence, although I'll pull it back if I'm knackered.

This is the time in the program where you kinda think you should be squeezing in the elements of training you're short on, and I think I'm short one 20 mile LSR. If it wasn't that, it'd be something else, so I have to be careful I'm not just adding on miles for the sake of it, muscles need to start repairing now.

If the weather's good, might just try to get out to Glendalough for a nice 16-17mile hilly loop I know of. Anyone else want to join in, probably Sat early in the morning. Trees look great there this time of year.