Becoming a Real Runner

pgmcpq

Good decision on the 10k. Tempo for V02 sounds like a good idea - infact I'd be thinking about alternating tempo with V02 - I think I am getting more out of the tempo runs (This part of P&D I find the least convincing). I'd think hard about the 5k if this does not clear up - you are never too far away from a shot at a 5k run (you will hit the sub 20 minute target - that's pretty much a given ) but you've put too much work into the marathon to risk it now.

plodder

Nice to meet you as well on Saturday Meno! Funny, I've been thinking about switching the VO2 max sessions with tempos as well. I don't have the book with me right now. So, I don't know what's scheduled for this week. But, I'd be interested to see what others might suggest instead of this weeks session (assuming there is one).

menoscemo

plodder wrote: »

Nice to meet you as well on Saturday Meno! Funny, I've been thinking about switching the VO2 max sessions with tempos as well. I don't have the book with me right now. So, I don't know what's scheduled for this week. But, I'd be interested to see what others might suggest instead of this weeks session (assuming there is one).

This weeks session is 9 miles incl 5x 1000m at 5k pace (w 50-90% interval time recovery). I am thinking of doing something like:
(1 mile easy, 2 mile tempo) x 3 instead. (Tempo here being somewhere north of 10k pace but south of HM pace).

Nice to see you yesterday too, you ran a great time in tough conditions. Most of the top lads reckoned they would have got a minute faster on an easier course.

menoscemo

pgmcpq wrote: »

Good decision on the 10k. Tempo for V02 sounds like a good idea - infact I'd be thinking about alternating tempo with V02 - I think I am getting more out of the tempo runs (This part of P&D I find the least convincing). I'd think hard about the 5k if this does not clear up - you are never too far away from a shot at a 5k run (you will hit the sub 20 minute target - that's pretty much a given ) but you've put too much work into the marathon to risk it now.

I appreciate the advice but the tshirt at the rathfarnham 5k this year is just too good to turn down:


I promise I will slow down if I feel any twinges and leave the sub 20 for Jingle bells in December.

jcsmum

Ah that's a pity about the 10k on Saturday but what a comeback yesterday. Great LSR.

menoscemo

Tonight was to be a VO2 max session (9 miles including 5 x 1k at 5k pace).

With the injury I went for a tempo run instead. I robbed this one off the sub 3hr mentored thread:

1 mile warm up: 8:52 (138), 2 miles MP: 7:50 (150), 7:50 (153) 1 Mile HMP: 7:22 (161) 1 mile easy 8:36 (149), 2 miles MP: 7:49 (144), 7:47 (156) 1 mile HMP: 7:05 (157) 1 mile cool down: 8:26 (157).

Total: 9.1 miles 7:58 pace 150 HR

Nice session, felt very confortable over a hilly enough course. My HR is pretty low over all and specifically in the second HMP mile (though downhill). I am also surprised at the HR in the last MP mile (7:47 -156) as it was all uphill and into a stiff wind.
I definately appear to be making gains and am starting to feel confident about my prospects overall.

menoscemo

I forgot to say, I went back to the Physio yesterday and the basic conclusion is it is the same injury as a few weeks ago- a slight groin tear. It would probably have cleared up by now but for the heavy mileage I am doing. It should get a chance to heal up during the taper. Anyway I had a good session with him and am having another on friday evening (hopefully having me nice and fresh for pacing the half on Saturday).

The order is no speed work (i.e. 5k-10k pace) for this week or next but he told me I will probably be ok to at least try the Rathfarnham 5k*

I Bought an expensive pair of compression shorts which I wore out today and will hopefully help the injury.

I have a big session looming this week- 18 miles w 14@PMP- probably the toughest session of the whole programme. I will not get to do it at the weekend, cos of pacing the half on saturday and then drinking afterwards. I am in two minds as to whether to do it on Thursday after work or replace one of the Planned LSR's in the following few weekends.

*Obviously if I feel anything on the day I will slow down and run it easy.

Aimman

menoscemo wrote: »

I have a big session looming this week- 18 miles w 14@PMP- probably the toughest session of the whole programme. I will not get to do it at the weekend, cos of pacing the half on saturday and then drinking afterwards. I am in two minds as to whether to do it on Thursday after work or replace one of the Planned LSR's in the following few weekends.

I think you are better off leaving it until after Saturday, seeing as you are pacing, just in case. You wouldn't want to aggrivate it by clocking up 31 miles over 3 days, particulary with PMP pace thrown in on one of the runs.

kennyb3

menoscemo wrote: »

but he told me I will probably be ok to at least try the Rathfarnham 5k*

Its been said before but i ll say it again - forget it. You ve worked too hard for the marathon. by time you feel it the damage will be done. what is a 5k going to add to you for the marathon? Another DNF aint going to be good for confidence.

Do your marathon and race as many 5k's as you want after.

menoscemo

kennyb3 wrote: »

Its been said before but i ll say it again - forget it. You ve worked too hard for the marathon. by time you feel it the damage will be done. what is a 5k going to add to you for the marathon? Another DNF aint going to be good for confidence.

Do your marathon and race as many 5k's as you want after.

I hear you. The only thing is that the Programme I am following (P&D) demands me race last weekend (Firhouse 10k), The wekend of the 25th september (Rathfarnham 5k) and the weekend of the 10th october (Simon 5 mile). I really have been following the program as closely as possible from the start and i am already changing it a fair bit by missing all the VO2 max sessions.

I am not counting these races in or ruling them out completely. I am playing it by Ear. The physio says the groin problem should clear up quickly. And rest assured if I am in a race and feel any problems I will pull up or slow right down (In the case of rathfarnham I would slow down as i want that t-shirt). I appreciate your concern But I can assure you my eyes are on teh bigger prize.
If I have to wait until Jingle bells to go sub 20 for 5k, then so be it.

xebec

menoscemo wrote: »

I hear you. The only thing is that the Programme I am following (P&D) demands me race last weekend (Firhouse 10k), The wekend of the 25th september (Rathfarnham 5k) and the weekend of the 10th october (Simon 5 mile). I really have been following the program as closely as possible from the start and i am already changing it a fair bit by missing all the VO2 max sessions.

I am not counting these races in or ruling them out completely. I am playing it by Ear. The physio says the groin problem should clear up quickly. And rest assured if I am in a race and feel any problems I will pull up or slow right down (In the case of rathfarnham I would slow down as i want that t-shirt). I appreciate your concern But I can assure you my eyes are on teh bigger prize.
If I have to wait until Jingle bells to go sub 20 for 5k, then so be it.

But the P&D program is just a guide, you don't have to follow it exactly. I don't see the point of trying to knock out a 5k PB when the risk of injury is so high. Racing in the context of these schedules doesn't necessarily mean going hell for leather for a PB, more that you are doing a slightly faster workout than you might otherwise have done.

I'm think you should drop this 5k as well. The risks are too high.

RayCun

Looking at the Rathfarnham page, there were only 650 finishers last year, and they have 800 t-shirts. So - if you've already entered and really want the t-shirt - you could literally walk around and still get one.

menoscemo

The thing that really annoys me is that this is not an injury caused by over running, but jetlag.
I really shouldn't have gone out to UCD as tiff as a pole after 4 hours sleep in 3 days.

Thanks for all your concern People. I'll probably end up just running Rathfarnham has a tempo session (for the t-shirt) rather than a PB attempt. If anyone needs a sub 22 pacer (or thereanouts) let me know.

TheRoadRunner

menoscemo wrote: »

The thing that really annoys me is that this is not an injury caused by over running, but jetlag.
I really shouldn't have gone out to UCD as tiff as a pole after 4 hours sleep in 3 days.

Thanks for all your concern People. I'll probably end up just running Rathfarnham has a tempo session (for the t-shirt) rather than a PB attempt. If anyone needs a sub 22 pacer (or thereanouts) let me know.

Sounds like a good plan. I may run rathfarnham. If I do you can have my tee shirt. If you wreck the groin it can be an injury for life rearing it's ugly head anything you try to do anything up tempo down the line. I've a dodgy hamstring from over exertion 7 years ago and it has never been 100%

chinguetti

From what i remember from last year, everyone who finished got a watch so if you finish, you'll get the t-shirt.

Forget about time and go a bit lax on the plan Meno, it is only a plan and plans can't factor in a niggling injury. In my eyes, the plan is to get you to the start line in peak condition to do your goal time.

For my first marathon, i stuck to the plan like religion but trained on an injury for the last 4 weeks which held until the 25th mile. If you mind yourself, you'll make 3.30 in Dublin but go easy on the hard sessions. Your body might be trying to tell you something.

menoscemo

Hey lads. The stuff about the T-shirt is a joke BTW

menoscemo

7 miles GA. 8:31 pace, HR 142

Nice handy run round tymon. I forgot my shorts with pockets and as a consequence had no radio to listen to on the way round. Because of this my mind drifted off while running and I was mulling over the advice gievn in the log. I have to say, pacing the half is the big event for me this week and it is top priority to get to the line in good shape. I wouldn't forgive myself if I injured myself before the race. For this reason I will definately swap this weeks LSR (18 Miles w/14PMP) to next week (I'll probably do it next friday and let it be a guide as to whether or not to attempt Rathfrnham the following sunday).

That means I'll just do an easy 12 tomorrow and rest up ahead of saturday. I will probably end up running up to the park on saturday morning (4 miles) and in so doing log up 17+miles for the day anyway. Next weeks long run was to be 17 anyway so it makes sense to swap them around.

Aimman

Good choice. I think you would have been kicking yourself if you had problems and couldn't make the 2:00 mark becuase of something that happenin on an 18M run a couple of days before.

If you want to notch up 4m extra though, perhaps you could do it after the race, finishing at Ryans, so that you'll be in peak form at the start line. Its a long walk to Ryans. By the time you do 4M we'll only be arriving.

Not sure whether to run tonight myself. dont know if the legs are a bit tired or if they just need a bit of a run to loosen them out.

If you are doing an easy 12 today, let me know. I might be able to join you for some of them, if the pace is handy enough.

menoscemo

Aimman wrote: »

Good choice. I think you would have been kicking yourself if you had problems and couldn't make the 2:00 mark becuase of something that happenin on an 18M run a couple of days before.

If you want to notch up 4m extra though, perhaps you could do it after the race, finishing at Ryans, so that you'll be in peak form at the start line. Its a long walk to Ryans. By the time you do 4M we'll only be arriving.

Not sure whether to run tonight myself. dont know if the legs are a bit tired or if they just need a bit of a run to loosen them out.

If you are doing an easy 12 today, let me know. I might be able to join you for some of them, if the pace is handy enough.

I was going to head up to the Park and do most of the HM course. Tymon is just not big enough for a 12m run

sideswipe

Hey Meno, just catching up with your log as I was kinda at the same standard as your good self around DCM last year, holy crap your flying! I see you down for 3:30 this year, best of luck with it. I do think you'll have to change the name of your log to "being a real runner" or "becoming an ultra runner" or something like that!!

menoscemo

Cheers!! Yeah the running has in general been really good this year and I have made big improvemnts. (5k-2 minutes faster, 5 mile-4 minutes faster, 10k-5 minutes faster, half marra-11 minutes faster). I had actually exceeded all my yearly goals by June.
All indicators point to a 3:30 marathon being very realistic, but we'll see on the big day.

It's all basically down to just getting the mileage in. I have been realtively injury free all year and getting in 4/5 runs a week since January. I have learned to really enjoy it too by getting in lots of easy miles around the weekly key sessions.

kennyb3

menoscemo wrote: »

All indicators point to a 3:30 marathon being very realistic, but we'll see on the big day.

Big time - your 5k and 10k times are in line with faster marathon times and you ve done plenty of long runs, so you have both the speed and endurance. no bother to you at all.

menoscemo

12 miles in the park tonight. I followed (more or less) the Half Marra course, just cutting a bit at the start and the end by Starting and finishing at the end of the Furze Road.
I did the first 6 miles at Pacing pace (8:53, 9:07, 9:11, 8:55, 9:04, 9:04) and the 6 last miles (the tougher ones) at PMP- to help me get an idea for how the pacees will be feeling at this point- (7:55, 8:05-Kyber, 7:50, 7:35, 7:50 -Glenn rd and Furry Glenn, 7:54).
I actually found the Kyber to be a lot tougher than the Glenn Rd and Furry Glenn. The little break in climbing by going downhill to the lake really breaks it up nicely and while the climb up to Knockmaroon gate is steep enough, it is quite short.

Good session tonight. I'll rest up tomorrow for saturday. Groin feels A1. I have another session with the physio tomorrow and hope to get the all clear after it.

12.3 miles at 8:27 pace HRM messed up again tonight (or else I have a dodgy ticker!). It has me jumping anywhere between 210 and 120 throughout the run.

brophya2007

menoscemo wrote: »

12 miles in the park tonight. I followed (more or less) the Half Marra course, just cutting a bit at the start and the end by Starting and finishing at the end of the Furze Road.
I did the first 6 miles at Pacing pace (8:53, 9:07, 9:11, 8:55, 9:04, 9:04) and the 6 last miles (the tougher ones) at PMP- to help me get an idea for how the pacees will be feeling at this point- (7:55, 8:05-Kyber, 7:50, 7:35, 7:50 -Glenn rd and Furry Glenn, 7:54).
I actually found the Kyber to be a lot tougher than the Glenn Rd and Furry Glenn. The little break in climbing by going downhill to the lake really breaks it up nicely and while the climb up to Knockmaroon gate is steep enough, it is quite short.

Good session tonight. I'll rest up tomorrow for saturday. Groin feels A1. I have another session with the physio tomorrow and hope to get the all clear after it.

12.3 miles at 8:27 pace HRM messed up again tonight (or else I have a dodgy ticker!). It has me jumping anywhere between 210 and 120 throughout the run.

Great running menoscemo - i'll be one of the pacees. It will be my first time running Kyber. I'll need you to call me every name under the sun to get me up there. See you Saturday.

menoscemo

brophya2007 wrote: »

Great running menoscemo - i'll be one of the pacees. It will be my first time running Kyber. I'll need you to call me every name under the sun to get me up there. See you Saturday.

The Khyber is really not that bad. The point of the post was that the Glenn Rd bit is not as bad as people think - usually that's the one they dread most.

The Kyber is only a 1 or 2% gradient, lasts just half a mile and is broken in the middle by a nice flat stretch. Be prepared to feel tired at the top though. The good news is that the 2 miles after it are downhill so you'll have a good chance to catch your breath back and recover.

Come up to introduce yourself before the race and I'll give you a paceband.

brophya2007

menoscemo wrote: »

Come up to introduce yourself before the race and I'll give you a paceband.

Thanks for the info and advise. I'll catch you before the race.

xebec

Happy Birthday!! Somebody with deep pockets better be coming to Ryan's, seems like there's a lot of birthdays around now!

osnola ibax

Happy birthday, no booze until 12:00 tomorrow

metamorphosis

Happy birthday!

Best of luck pacing tomorrow.

kennyb3

Happy Birthday dude