News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

F3

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

If you mean did I sign the petition then yes but that certainly does not make me a member. I actually feel like I have no voice in this dire situation. The councillors appear untouchable and I have no idea who the GUBOH people are.

I 100% back GUBOH in their general aim but I sense it has got somewhat personal and sidetracked (might I add, originally instigated by certain public representatives). Saying that though I thought that you F3 and the Durutti Column were GUBOH so that has clouded my judgement.

I do support the group but I can't say I am a member because I am unable to participate in any way.

I am all for direct action. I would have loved to get involved in this very sincere campaign. However, I am not originally from Greystones, and it has been said to my face that I should butt out of local issues. I believe this has always been part of the problem - this whole "Greystones" thing. I remember the petition was to be kept in Greystones, whereas I would have had it all over Dublin with many more names on it. The harbour is not a small town development that is the baby of a few town councillors and the despair of born and bred Greystonians. It is a major east coast development, on the outskirts of the capitol of Ireland, with direct rail links to the city centre that has FAILED. It affects far more than just the people in Greystones. It had the potential to greatly boost tourism levels for the area creating many jobs with a knock on effect for the whole county. It affects Dubliners that used to come out for the day - who wants to bring the kids for a stroll along a building site by the sea? I don't go down there anymore. I hate looking at it. On the one side there is a derelict hotel aesthetically demonstrating the decay of tourism in the town and on the other side there is the embarrassing reminder of the greed and corruption that was rife in the noughties with the horror of the building site at the harbour.

Anyway F3 please let us know what the response from GUBOH is.

November 22nd 2011 the GUBOH committee were listed on Facebook as follows:

John F O'Brien
John Byrne
Jonathon Leonard
Johnny Morrison
David Flynn
Stephen Flynn
Fiachra Etchingham (Spokesperson)
Mary Egan
Gillian Demery
Billy Byrne
Pippins Parkinson

Cheeky Chops

Thanks for the list. I actually know quite a few of them so I can approach them directly myself as well.

Taltos

Hi - been a while since I posted here.
Also know quite a few names from the list but ashamed to say it is the 80s since I spoke to most of them. All good folk though - Jonathon was definitely a laugh as a kid

Anyway that isn't why I came here this morning. I had held off on walking out on the pier to be honest until yesterday. First venture out - you know - it is not bad looking out there - I do still miss the old pier and sometimes wish we had just removed the kish to allow the natural sea currents to restore the sand levels inside. Anyway wishes are useless now.

Some nice views out there back in towards the harbour - just saddened to see some of the wall lights already smashed - out where the fishermen were.

Any ideas though for any natural dive points along this stretch? Remember as a kid going in off the old pier and back up the steps - even remember one of the Ryle's pushing Kerry in at those same steps only for someone to shout "he can't swim" - never saw a young chap dive in so fast after someone he pushed.

It does look promising though - possibly when the rest of the railings are removed, and maybe the addition of a set of steps added at the end of the walkway (right at top of steps). The current setup there is a bit dangerous - nearly climbed over myself yesterday to save a walk back - but thought better of it. Expect it is only a matter of time before someone does go over and slip down the rocks there.

F3

Taltos wrote: »

Hi - been a while since I posted here.
Also know quite a few names from the list but ashamed to say it is the 80s since I spoke to most of them. All good folk though - Jonathon was definitely a laugh as a kid

Anyway that isn't why I came here this morning. I had held off on walking out on the pier to be honest until yesterday. First venture out - you know - it is not bad looking out there - I do still miss the old pier and sometimes wish we had just removed the kish to allow the natural sea currents to restore the sand levels inside. Anyway wishes are useless now.

Some nice views out there back in towards the harbour - just saddened to see some of the wall lights already smashed - out where the fishermen were.

Any ideas though for any natural dive points along this stretch? Remember as a kid going in off the old pier and back up the steps - even remember one of the Ryle's pushing Kerry in at those same steps only for someone to shout "he can't swim" - never saw a young chap dive in so fast after someone he pushed.

It does look promising though - possibly when the rest of the railings are removed, and maybe the addition of a set of steps added at the end of the walkway (right at top of steps). The current setup there is a bit dangerous - nearly climbed over myself yesterday to save a walk back - but thought better of it. Expect it is only a matter of time before someone does go over and slip down the rocks there.

Hi Taltos, There are quite a few dangerous spots around the development, this is why it all needs to be adressed before someone gets injured or worse. I know its sounds like this thread blogged by a load of radical whingers revolting against the system, but really looking at the GUBOH committee who have been the front pushers for action on the harbour, the're a group of straight talking apolitical genuinely concerned community members, despite being branded unfairly as radical left wingers by others. We need to support them all, and I think a public meeting is a great idea, lets meet these people and show them that they are really not alone on this quest to make our town great again.

Cheeky Chops

F3 it is interesting seeing the list. I had an image of GUBOH as a small group of zealots who are raging a self serving battle against public representatives after reading some of the commentary that has been posted online.

FAR FROM IT!

The few I know are not at all politically ambitious but generally care for the well being of the town both for their families and friends. I truly believe a public meeting is the way forward even more so now so that the altruism can shine through and the mud slinging can be stopped.

Did you speak to any of them yet F3? Is a meeting plausible?

F3

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

F3 it is interesting seeing the list. I had an image of GUBOH as a small group of zealots who are raging a self serving battle against public representatives after reading some of the commentary that has been posted online.

FAR FROM IT!

The few I know are not at all politically ambitious but generally care for the well being of the town both for their families and friends. I truly believe a public meeting is the way forward even more so now so that the altruism can shine through and the mud slinging can be stopped.

Did you speak to any of them yet F3? Is a meeting plausible?

Yes and yes,

Apparently there was to be a Harbour Liason committee meeting scheduled for this Wednesday at which GUBOH has a voice, but WCC has unilaterally postponed it until March (not sure why) it was suggested that after that meeting, a public meeting will be called. I was also told that GUBOH are meeting with the Town Council in March, this I believe can be attended by the public, to listen only not to partake.

Fiachra2

This is a good debate which I have not joined as I was away

GUBOH have considered a public meeting.

I think I can say in fairness that the main reason it hasn't happened is because of the risk that certain public representatives will attack the whole concept (as they did with a previous GUBOH public event) and that it could serve to derail the good relationship which GUBOH has with most of our public reps.

However the points about lack of information and lack a facility for involvement by the public in general are well made and we will revist this matter very shortly

F3

Just looking on the GUBOH Facebook page, seems there are some serious problems with recent erosion on the North Beach cliffs, Seems the contractor ought to have placed 30,000 m3 of protection, but has only placed a fraction of it. I do recall that there is a maximum allowable amount of erosion expected over the 30 year period, but at this rate Sispars rate will be eroded in no time at all. Are we looking at an environmental impact that has manifested itself through WCC's negligence? (ie failing to ensure Sispar complete it necessary works???)

What next??? The old dump perhaps will be washed into the bay, with 100 years of leachate spilling into the bay killing off what ever fish are left!!

F3

Just to clarify, the 30 year period is the concession period Sispar have to run the marina and harbour, which includes maintenance and dredging etc, there was an expected rate of erosion allowable. Either someone has screwed up the Maths or Hueston............we may have a problem.

Any civil/marine engineers out there?

Cheeky Chops

Fiachra2 wrote: »

This is a good debate which I have not joined as I was away

GUBOH have considered a public meeting.

I think I can say in fairness that the main reason it hasn't happened is because of the risk that certain public representatives will attack the whole concept (as they did with a previous GUBOH public event) and that it could serve to derail the good relationship which GUBOH has with most of our public reps.

However the points about lack of information and lack a facility for involvement by the public in general are well made and we will revist this matter very shortly

Public representatives are in that position because of OUR vote and we should not be walking on egg shells around them. They if anyone should be working at keeping a good relationship with the people not the other way around. They are officially there to represent our opinions and concerns and are not be pandered to. GUBOH should not be feeling the need to appease the egos of certain individuals or corporations. You should stand strong, opt out of the cronyism and take them on in a public fashion. Diplomacy has not worked. Time for utter transparency and public debate. Time for gloves off I reckon.

youknowwho

F3 wrote: »

Just to clarify, the 30 year period is the concession period Sispar have to run the marina and harbour, which includes maintenance and dredging etc, there was an expected rate of erosion allowable. Either someone has screwed up the Maths or Hueston............we may have a problem.

Any civil/marine engineers out there?

Whether they screwed up the maths or not its a problem. Who knows the models they ran to predict errosion or what they showed, everybody took their word that they were correct. I've worked on costal schemes before and I can assure you what we have is a problem.

It may well be the case that the models which were studied included the beach nourishment and protective measures being implemented at an early stage. If thats the case and in the absence of it happening the models and predictions are worthless. Yet it is the story that ABP swallowed.

Beaches can generally be nourished but the material has to be accessable or it becomes prohibitively expensive. Cliffs cannot be replaced and the problem when I last visited was that the beach errosion has allowed the sea to daily erode the toe of the cliffs causing progressive collapse.

I had a walk along the coast at the weekend and I also noticed that the south beach has grown substantially this year. I have over the years seen the beach grow and decline in winter storms but this year is quite something. The mens is buried and there are in effect two new coves along the sea front.

Is this connected? One can only hazzard a guess, however with anything concerning the environment if you upset the balance then generally nature will make it own corrections, and it's always an exercise of speculation as to how currents and tides will behave.

I don't doubt that early models showed this errosion. Why else would a contractor agree to spend such sums to carry out protective works.

The question now is how to slow it down?

The reason for the meeting being adjourned is to digest NAMA's decision.

Taltos

I have not seen the North beach or the progressed cliff erosion - but if true, which I don't doubt, you can hardly mistake cliffside falls - who should be contacted?

Just thinking maybe the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) should get called in if they are not already in place. That disused landfill I remember used to contain items from car batteries to fridges and more - at least I remember seeing such items before it was covered over to resemble drumlins.

Good point above on the Men's as well - we did get some sand removal this year but if you think back it has been a long while since the South beach really had a clear out of the winter sands. Not sure if this is all attributable to the works on the harbour or may also be due to the stabalisation of the sand with the grasses - but again bears looking into.

pixbyjohn

South Beach extended by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

pixbyjohn

Men's bathing place , Greystones by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

recedite

^ Heh Heh the gentlemen may go elsewhere for their swims now.

pixbyjohn

North Beach 1 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

pixbyjohn

North Beach bank by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

F3

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=236059549814830&set=oa.281688605232109&type=1&theater


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=236058689814916&set=oa.281688605232109&type=1&permPage=1

pixbyjohn

North Beach, Greystones 21st Feb 2012 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

F3

What have they done? Dear God...........

dudmis

What was there before the development? (I'm new-ish to Greystones so don't know the old harbour at all)

pixbyjohn

dudmis wrote: »

What was there before the development? (I'm new-ish to Greystones so don't know the old harbour at all)

Greystones Harbour from Bray Head by pixbyjohn, on Flickr
Greystones Harbour in 2007

pixbyjohn

North Beach, Greystones by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

pixbyjohn

North Beach, Greystones in 2007 by pixbyjohn, on Flickr

dudmis

Thanks PbJ - we'd be lost without you and your photo records!

Cheeky Chops

dudmis wrote: »

What was there before the development? (I'm new-ish to Greystones so don't know the old harbour at all)

A place where our kids could go. Where they used to paddle in the cold water
in summer. Where people could meet. It is now a cold and hostile environment.

F3

What have they done? Dear God...........

dudmis

I think I'm one of the lucky ones in that I didn't know it before and can't get nostalgic about it.

I just hope that something is done to make the entire site more community-friendly and aesthetically pleasing and that my kids will be able to enjoy summers (and make memories) down there soon.

karma_coma

Does anyone have a geographical explanation as to why the shingle beach washed away and if related, how the harbour development affected it?

pixbyjohn

Just for clarification, my 2007 photos were taken in August 2007. I am not sure if August 2012 photos will show much difference to today's photos ( Feb 21st 2012).