News and views on Greystones harbour and marina [SEE MODERATOR WARNING POST 1187]

Son of Jack

Ah but it is the thought that counts surely?
It's the message not the syntax;
the principle of the thing!

Annasopra

Please stay on topic - Councillor McLoughins grammar is not relevant and please don't further derail the thread by discussing this mod warning. Any problems PM me.

Cheeky Chops

I walked down to the North Beach early this morning and it looks like a prison. I can't believe how awful the walk down is.

Fiachra2

An Bord Pleanala has directed Wicklow County Council to carry out an EIS in connection with the 35 extra houses they wanted to add to the Marina development.


An BP, in granting permission for the development, reduced it in size. Subsequently (just before the housing project was abandoned) WCC prepared plans to increase the number of houses up to the original size. Initially they asked the Bord whether an EIS was required and the Bord relied that an EIS would be a requirement. This was of course the wrong answer for WCC so they unilaterally gave themselves permission for the houses anyway.

A couple of us wrote to the Bord enquiring whether this was legal. This resulted in my being subjected to quite a colourful attack by the Mayor Ciaran Hayden. Derek Mitchell also repeatedly had a go at me (and the Labour Party whom he seemed to think were conspiring on the matter). He also tried to get the Town Council to write to me requesting that I withdraw the query.

Anyway the Bord has now again ruled that an EIS must be carried out. The ruling, on the face of it, constitutes rap on the knuckles for WCC and those such as Derek and Ciaran who championed the idea of disregarding the Bord. More importantly it may increase pressure to come to some resolution on the matter and get the hoardings down.

grace143

Fiachra

How can you say it may increase the speed of getting the hoardings down - I believe that is completely wrong. I along with everyone else who I have spoken to want the community facilities built and the only hope we had of that is with the Primary Care Unit. Now nothing..... for God knows how long. Or is your plan to ensure nothing is built there and we are left with no amenities, facilities and an open space that is no use to the community - either socially or economically.

grace143

Surely I am entitled to an opinion, just like everyone else. I did not realise that everyone has to agree with what everyone has to say.

mikedragon32

grace143 wrote: »

Fiachra

How can you say it may increase the speed of getting the hoardings down - I believe that is completely wrong. I along with everyone else who I have spoken to want the community facilities built and the only hope we had of that is with the Primary Care Unit. Now nothing..... for God knows how long. Or is your plan to ensure nothing is built there and we are left with no amenities, facilities and an open space that is no use to the community - either socially or economically.

Do you believe that the money generated from the profits on an extra 35 houses is really the difference between the project being stalled or completed?

grace143

I can honestly say, I don't know. All I know now is that it is stalled for a further number of months. What goes on behind the NAMA doors is impossible to know. I want as much as everyone, for those disgusting hoardings to be taken down, but I do not want a Ghost Harbour either. And that is the view of everyone that I have spoken to from the area. It is not something that I am going to just accept and that's for sure.

F3

F3 wrote: »

The hoardings are there for two reasons. 1) WCC cannot legally do anything to force a change in programme or a partial takeover until 2014 when SISPAR are contractually bound to have the works completed. Only when that date expires will SISPAR be in a defacto breach of contract for failing to complete.So until then it will remain a building site, that needs to be protected and secured.

2). In the meantime, WCC are awaiting a decision from NAMA regarding the funding of the medical centre (with 11 apartments over), a carpark, the public hard landscaped area and the 5 community structures. Herein lies the rub!

NAMA cannot fund the 5 community buildings or public areas as there is no asset value in doing so.The 11 apartments are most likely a part of the SISPAR business plan to NAMA to Market test an interest generally which might spark sales in the remaining 350 units to be completed and thus within NAMA's power to fund same as it will get them closer to recovering the 80million or so spent on the marine works.

Now, if hell freezes over, and NAMA does in fact fund 5 community buildings, then the hoardings need to stay to secure the building site. WCC need to realistic and push NAMA to hurry up and make a decision now. If the medical centre et al gets the green light and not the 5 buildings, then the hoarding could come down, or at least get replaced with railings, but access will only be to the east pier and possibly the west, but not the north pier. There will be some works required to make the public harbour and piers safe for the public, but this will involve a change in the contract that WCC has with Sispar for an early handover. Such a change however, may be traded with an extension to the 2014 date I mentioned earlier, it's a bit of a mess I know but with the right leadership it could happen.......NAMA needs a kick in the ass to begin with to just give it's decision. Although it's PPP, it's quite different, if it were a road like the M1 and the contractor decided half way through to stop work as the traffic flows (to be tolled) are not what they thought at tender, do you think for a minute the NRA would tell the public they were waiting on a decision from AIB to see when the road would be finished? Neither do I.

Grace, this is the position [sorry for repeating]

mikedragon32

I'm not fiachra's greatest fan, but I can see the logic in nipping WCC's plans to build the extra houses in the bud.

If they went ahead with building because of the extra 35 units, all that's happening is that the problem is being kicked down the line. The hoarding will stay up while building is in progress and there is a massive risk that the project would stall again, meaning that there would be no hope of the haording coming down while the place is a building site and still no hope of the amenities promised.

At least if the development is stopped at this stage, then there's some hope that the area can be cleared of any hazards and the hoarding coming down.

F3

The time is coming when we the people of Greystones have got to say enough is enough...........

Get the white buckets out at Tescos and take affirmative action,

The Real Families of Greystones Vs The Bureaucrats!!! I've lived in Greystones for c.25 Years, I've 3 sons who don't know what the harbour is, I've had enough.

Fiachra2

grace143 wrote: »

I can honestly say, I don't know. All I know now is that it is stalled for a further number of months. What goes on behind the NAMA doors is impossible to know. I want as much as everyone, for those disgusting hoardings to be taken down, but I do not want a Ghost Harbour either. And that is the view of everyone that I have spoken to from the area. It is not something that I am going to just accept and that's for sure.

Im a bit confused. You say:

• You dont know whether there is a link between the 35 houses and the completion of the project
• You dont know what goes on in NAMA

Yet you still say that I have held up the project. Can you explain? I dont mean to be argumentative but I cant see where you are coming from.

Blanchflower

Simple economics has held up the project. Anyone who at this stage does not realised that the Irish property market is well and truely irreparbly banjaxed is not living on this planet.

Read my lips - there will be nothing constructed on the Greystones Harbour site for at least 50 years and by that stage the breakwaters will need to be replaced anyway.

recedite

Cheeky Chops wrote: »

I walked down to the North Beach early this morning and it looks like a prison. I can't believe how awful the walk down is.

I hear they are calling the new swimming area there "Alcatraz Beach" :pac:

loyatemu

F3 wrote: »

The time is coming when we the people of Greystones have got to say enough is enough...........

Get the white buckets out at Tescos and take affirmative action,

The Real Families of Greystones Vs The Bureaucrats!!! I've lived in Greystones for c.25 Years, I've 3 sons who don't know what the harbour is, I've had enough.

maybe thats the eventual solution - how much is a sledgehammer?

Fiachra, you're completely right in this case, bad planning has caused no end of problems in this country, we can't solve the issue of the harbour through more bad planning.

darter

F3 wrote: »

The time is coming when we the people of Greystones have got to say enough is enough...........

Get the white buckets out at Tescos and take affirmative action,

The Real Families of Greystones Vs The Bureaucrats!!! I've lived in Greystones for c.25 Years, I've 3 sons who don't know what the harbour is, I've had enough.

Without going so far as civil disobedience at this point, perhaps we should organize a demonstration one Saturday or Sunday? Get the crowds out like we did to rally against the construction, and get media attention. Force the councillors to come and explain themselves to an angry and frustrated crowd.

pixbyjohn

darter wrote: »

Without going so far as civil disobedience at this point, perhaps we should organize a demonstration one Saturday or Sunday? Get the crowds out like we did to rally against the construction, and get media attention. Force the councillors to come and explain themselves to an angry and frustrated crowd.

I think that is a sound idea, at least it will show if people are really still interested in what is happening at the harbour development. As far as the discussion on here goes there are approximately only 60 contributors.
It is time to show by actions rather than words how the people feel. It is all too easy to sit at a keyboard and contribute but to actually gather and have a public show of feelings takes a little more effort.
Time for action is now.

Fiachra2

darter wrote: »

Without going so far as civil disobedience at this point, perhaps we should organize a demonstration one Saturday or Sunday? Get the crowds out like we did to rally against the construction, and get media attention. Force the councillors to come and explain themselves to an angry and frustrated crowd.

From Long years of experience I know that it is not easy to get a crowd on a weekend afternoon, no matter how strongly people feel. I would sugest you picket the Town Council meeting which happens on the last tueday of each month. This will get you media attention. I would also sugest you ask Tom Fortune who has sided with the community on this matter to arrange a public meeting with the local councillors. Lastly dont foget that your newly elected TD Stephen Donnelly was part of the opposition campaign to the whole project.

F3

A 10 foot A0 banner with the words "The people of Greystones have had Enough, remove the hoardings and give us our harbour back! For families who support this view please attend a peaceful Demonstration this afternoon at 3pm At the harbour" we'll paste two banners either side of a commercial van, with a speaker playing frankie goes to Hollywood 'Two Tribes' and drive around the town on the Saturday morning. We will paste two or three banners on the hoardings and invite the media to attend.......that should be enough

mikedragon32

Sounds like you've done this before F3!

I agree with Darter, doorstep the Town Council meeting and let the media know it's going to happen.

F3

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Sounds like you've done this before F3!

I agree with Darter, doorstep the Town Council meeting and let the media know it's going to happen.

Nope, I've just had enough, but believe me I spoken to enough of my fellow Greystonians to know the mood is reaching boiling point on this matter.

Cheeky Chops

Is there a FB page? It is incredible how effective viral campaigns are (and they are easy ..)

Fiachra2

F3 wrote: »

Nope, I've just had enough, but believe me I spoken to enough of my fellow Greystonians to know the mood is reaching boiling point on this matter.

No reason not to do both. The Saturday will suit families, bring the kids down etc (and invite some local TD's to speak). The evening will suit others as it is a quick 30 mins or so on the way back from work.

doylerd

Quite off topic lads & ladies but I can get a number of opinions this way - what's the situation with the summer Arts Festival? I assume it was discontinued due to lack of sponsorship? Personally I always thought it got a good summertime buzz in the town for a week. Has it even been on since they defiled the harbour and started excavating for that wretched monstrosity that now stands there?

Son of Jack

Councillor Grainne McLoughlin who has recently returned to active politics in Greystones was always I believe the main organizer behind the Arts Festival. She has said that she is interested in reviving it.

She has also secured a net for the volleyball at the beach in Greystones...

''but am looking for a group who will take up the mantle of minding it - has anyone any ideas - Insurance I think might be ok but it is really to ensure that it is taken down when not in use and stored carefully so that everyone can have use of it. Has anyone any ideas?''

Back on topic; she is also committed to getting the hoardings removed at the harbour.

recedite

Son of Jack wrote: »

She has also secured a net for the volleyball at the beach in Greystones...

It may be only a small triumph, but in the land of the blind, the one eyed (wo)man is king (or queen).

Blanchflower

F3 wrote: »

A 10 foot A0 banner with the words "The people of Greystones have had Enough, remove the hoardings and give us our harbour back! For families who support this view please attend a peaceful Demonstration this afternoon at 3pm At the harbour" we'll paste two banners either side of a commercial van, with a speaker playing frankie goes to Hollywood 'Two Tribes' and drive around the town on the Saturday morning. We will paste two or three banners on the hoardings and invite the media to attend.......that should be enough

Is the uprising still on for 3pm on Saturday?

doylerd

Blanchflower wrote: »

Is the uprising still on for 3pm on Saturday?

I'm not usually one for organized civil unrest, but the people of greystones have been abused and bullied by these "people" (I'm not allowed to insult anybody, but rest assured that's not the word I would use were I uncensored) long enough and it's pretty clear that the official channels, who allowed the development to go ahead in the first place despite overwhelming opposition, are not of any use.

Blanchflower

doylerd wrote: »

I'm not usually one for organized civil unrest, but the people of greystones have been abused and bullied by these "people" (I'm not allowed to insult anybody, but rest assured that's not the word I would use were I uncensored) long enough and it's pretty clear that the official channels, who allowed the development to go ahead in the first place despite overwhelming opposition, are not of any use.

So is there a demonstration on on Saturday?

doylerd

Blanchflower wrote: »

So is there a demonstration on on Saturday?

I don't know but suspect it won't happen, at least on any great scale