Should I tell the Gardai?

blorg

Follow it up, gardai and Dublin Bus, there are endless reports of this going back YEARS and sooner or later someone will be killed.

I too completely gave up on that road after nearly being whapped by a bus twice. Deliberately, "to teach me a lesson" as the driver said at the next stop.

EDIT: Seriously, I am getting really REALLY angry just recalling this once more and living through it again. I think we need something to collect accounts, report to DB and honestly do something like go down and picket Donnybrook garage if they don't sort it out.

SerialComplaint

blorg wrote: »

Follow it up, gardai and Dublin Bus, there are endless reports of this going back YEARS and sooner or later someone will be killed.

I too completely gave up on that road after nearly being whapped by a bus twice. Deliberately, "to teach me a lesson" as the driver said at the next stop.

EDIT: Seriously, I am getting really REALLY angry just recalling this once more and living through it again. I think we need something to collect accounts, report to DB and honestly do something like go down and picket Donnybrook garage if they don't sort it out.

Helmet cam is your only man.

DirkVoodoo

Just back from Donnybrook Garda station after submitting a statement. The Garda was very helpful and methodical. I got a bit worried when she came out at the beginning with some big guy with about 4 chevrons on his arm who had this kind of intense look and said "If you submit a complaint we will open a case with a view to prosecution" which kind of took me aback. I carried on anyway, hopefully they will get the footage from the bus and the driver will be dealt with. I think this kind of behaviour really has to stop and drivers need to learn that if you are going to play dangerous games of "teaching lessons" there will be consequences and not just this "it's your word against his, shake hands and forget about it".

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Just back from Donnybrook Garda station after submitting a statement. The Garda was very helpful and methodical. I got a bit worried when she came out at the beginning with some big guy with about 4 chevrons on his arm who had this kind of intense look and said "If you submit a complaint we will open a case with a view to prosecution" which kind of took me aback.

To me that suggests they are serious about it. I had an incident with a driver (not a bus driver) which I reported, gardai took very it seriously and it was successfully prosecuted. Good luck.

Speculating, the reaction you got suggests that this may not be the first such report.

Doctor Bob

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I saw a lot of bad driving/parking today.

There was something in the air today alright...

I was coming back to town around 5pm from a meeting in Clonskeagh (Edit: N11 rather than Ranelagh Road) and after a while I stopped counting the examples of bad driving I witnessed. (After 10 I have to take off my shoes, which can be a problem on the bike...)

Or maybe this is standard during the Friday late afternoon rush hour? I'm rarely out on the bike at that time. The most frequent offenders I saw were taxi drivers- sailing through red lights, disregarding their indicators and, in one case, making a u-turn (without indicating) on a road with a solid centre line, nearly creaming a cyclist in the process.

I'm not often scared while cycling, but the heart was much closer to the mouth today than usual.

Anyway, glad you're alright Dirk, and well done for following it up.

Convict

DirkVoodoo - will you let us know how this goes. Would be very interested to see if the same driver was involved as was in my complaint. You are absolutely right to complain. It will be taken seriously and all of these things add up. Glad you weren't hurt too.

k123456

God help anyone new to cycling being encouraged to cycle to work with the new "cycle to work scheme".

It is one thing for seasoned cyclists who are used to the feel of their bikes, and are used to sudden braking, evasive manoeuvres etc....but a newbie to cycling to work along the N11.

I have cycled for years first time on N11, live over the other side of city, must say thats a bloodly dangerous and badly maintained lane.

Well done to the poster for following up with DB and the Guards.

daragh_

Nearly got run off the road by an irate BMW (beige) driver this evening. He pulled in in front of me at speed to stop me. My crime, slapping his wing mirror (no damage) a few hundred yards back as he was parked in the bike line outside Donnybrook Fair, forcing me to swerve into traffic.

The irony is this pulling in front of me, essentially trying to knock me off the bike, blocking the bike lane and shouting and screaming all happened just past Donnybrook Garda Station. My (I thought reasonable) offer to continue the conversation in the same station didn't go down to well and he drove off after a minute. Shame as I was happy to take it to the Guards - although I guess they probably would have told us both to grow up and get over it.

I've been through this before a few times. There was no point in slapping the mirror, a shout would have sent the same message and caused less rage. On the plus side I was proud of myself for remaining calm and not screaming and cursing back at him.

Apologies for jumping in on this thread - just needed to vent.

zzzzzzzz

daragh_ wrote: »

Nearly got run off the road by an irate BMW (beige) driver this evening. He pulled in in front of me at speed to stop me. My crime, slapping his wing mirror (no damage) a few hundred yards back as he was parked in the bike line outside Donnybrook Fair, forcing me to swerve into traffic.

The irony is this pulling in front of me, essentially trying to knock me off the bike, blocking the bike lane and shouting and screaming all happened just past Donnybrook Garda Station. My (I thought reasonable) offer to continue the conversation in the same station didn't go down to well and he drove off after a minute. Shame as I was happy to take it to the Guards - although I guess they probably would have told us both to grow up and get over it.

I've been through this before a few times. There was no point in slapping the mirror, a shout would have sent the same message and caused less rage. On the plus side I was proud of myself for remaining calm and not screaming and cursing back at him.

Apologies for jumping in on this thread - just needed to vent.

While I obviously don't condone the driver's reaction, hitting someone's wing mirror to express your displeasure with their parking is hardly acceptable behavior.

chakattack

daragh_ wrote: »

Nearly got run off the road by an irate BMW (beige) driver this evening. He pulled in in front of me at speed to stop me. My crime, slapping his wing mirror (no damage) a few hundred yards back as he was parked in the bike line outside Donnybrook Fair, forcing me to swerve into traffic.

The irony is this pulling in front of me, essentially trying to knock me off the bike, blocking the bike lane and shouting and screaming all happened just past Donnybrook Garda Station. My (I thought reasonable) offer to continue the conversation in the same station didn't go down to well and he drove off after a minute. Shame as I was happy to take it to the Guards - although I guess they probably would have told us both to grow up and get over it.

I've been through this before a few times. There was no point in slapping the mirror, a shout would have sent the same message and caused less rage. On the plus side I was proud of myself for remaining calm and not screaming and cursing back at him.

Apologies for jumping in on this thread - just needed to vent.

Cars parked in a cycle lane are I hate to say it an inevitability and something you have to learn to deal with just like an other obstacle.

Look over your shoulder to check that it's clear and move out to a safe distance from the car where you can't doored.

Slapping mirrors and roaring abuse won't win you any friends and I don't want to get creamed someday by some angry bast*rd who has a chip on his shoulder against cyclists because someone slapped the mirror on his precious X5.

Take a few deep breaths, anticipate the stupidity of others and enjoy your ride.

daragh_

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

While I obviously don't condone the driver's reaction, hitting someone's wing mirror to express your displeasure with their parking is hardly acceptable behavior.

I agree. I shouldn't have done it and I think my post reflects that.

DirkVoodoo

daragh_ wrote: »

I agree. I shouldn't have done it and I think my post reflects that.

Donnybrook fair is particularly lethal, cars are nearly always double parking, doors swinging open, exiting parking spaces without indicating. I normally take up the entire bus lane if there is no one behind me. At least the new road surface there is nice, plus there are painted bike lanes, but no one cares about these.

tomasrojo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

At least the new road surface there is nice, plus there are painted bike lanes, but no one cares about these.

And so neither should we. As it says in Cyclecraft (more or less; I don't have it to hand), treat cycle lanes as if they aren't there and position yourself as you would on the road, using defensive cycling tactics. (Of course, when cycle lanes happen to coincide with where defensive tactics would place you, then you should ues them.)

RobBaxter

wrote:

TimAllen
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by Convict
There seems to be some confusion here.
I complained to Dublin Bus and the Gardai. There was evidence to support my complaint from the front camera on the bus. There was also evidence of a previous incident I referred to in my original post. As a result of my complaint the driver was disciplined.
Now maybe I'm missing something here but that action in itself is an admission that what I said happened did take place. The driver was shown the replayed video by the Gardai. The driver accepted what he'd done was wrong. An apology was passed on to me. He was 'having a bad day'. The specific Garda I dealt with pointed out that 'bad days' are a luxury people who deal with the public can't afford.
Dublin bus then wrote me a letter of apology. Specifially that. I don't know where the psychological trauma is supposed to have come from. That was never an issue. I was never traumatised. I was never going to sue for money. What happened happened. I was angry. I did something about it. I complained. I posted here about going to the Gardai. I went to the Gardai. In conjunction with the Gardai I agreed to accept an apology - a written apology for what had happened. I have that letter.
I have to accept that both the Gardai and Dublin Bus are acting in good faith. I have no problem accepting that. As for those in Dublin Bus 'handling complaints' - I don't know anything about that. That's not the route I took. I reiterate, I have no problem accepting that whatever happened in the past, Dublin Bus currently pursue issues like mine. I also have to say that the Gardai in Donnybrook acted very well in this matter. I don't know what to say beyond that. Beyond that it was court and solicitors and then we could have argued over the wording of a letter and a man might have lost his job. There's also something called perspective.
As for posting the letter. To be abosoutely honest with you I was going to do that initially but now it rests here. I'm afraid you'll just have to take my word for it.

I didnt suggest that you were going to sue and I accept that you had/have no intention of suing but a commercial semi state company cant make that assumption and that is where I find it extremely difficult to believe that they issued you with a letter of apology accepting your version of events. If they did, it would be an admission of liability which, in my (somewhat knowledgeable) opinion they simply could not do.
Accepting then, that you are telling the truth and a letter did in fact issue, I am curious as to how they worded it. It would have to be fairly apologetic I assume, for you to accept it as being sincere enough to warrant you dropping the matter (if it wasnt then there wasnt much point in you following up in the first place) BUT it would also have to be very tame so as to get past the legal department?
Why not throw it up as originally requested - it might provide the blueprint for others in similar circumstances.

A reasonable post from Tim Allen. How come it has been completely ignored?

Chips Lovell

Holy thread resurrection Batman.

ThisRegard

Reasonable and Tim Allen :eek: [head explodes]

droidus

OK, this just happened to me on the N2 heading North at about 5:50

It was around here: http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=google+maps+claremont+court+glasnevin+dublin&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=11+Claremont+Ct,+Dublin+11,+County+Dublin&gl=ie&ll=53.372067,-6.282281&spn=0.002682,0.008256&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=53.372016,-6.282153&panoid=cSdpi671wTbpQgypXBaOAg&cbp=12,307.75,,0,8.74

Where there are both sets of signs (the standard 'bus & bike' sign and the dodgy 'pedestrian and bike' sign). I usually take to the road until I get to the bottom of the hill at Tolka Valley as the cycle lanes at claremount court bring you directly into the path of traffic turning left, and you can reach 50+kph on the hill on the way down which would be madness to do on the footpad.

Anyway, he overtakes me with about 6 inches to spare, leaning on the horn all the while. He then pulls in and brakes, forcing me to slow to a virtual stop. At the next set of lights he pulls in leaving no space to pass and when the lights change he sits at the lights for about 30 secs, delaying me and preventing me from passing. I pull in behind him at the next stop and again he takes a very long time to pull away. A woman who got off the bus tells me that he did it to 'get me in the cycle lane'. I had a brief discussion with her but stupidly didnt get her details.

So. I go down the hill and get ahead of him at he next lights. I take a couple of pictures of the bus and him with my i-phone and he covers his face. At the next stop I confront him, which went something like this.

Me: What the hell are you doing??
DB psycho: Get in your lane!!!
Me: theres two sets of signs there - I can cycle on the road
DB psycho: Get in your lane!!!
Me: Youre driving a bus, you cant be doing that to cyclists
DB psycho: You should be in the cycle lane. Get in your lane!!!
Me: Im reporting you to the guards you ****ing scumbag.

Next bus stop I wait behind the stop (he takes and awful long time to get to me as well) and take more pictures whilst he sits in his cab covering his face.

Now. Im not a militant cyclist. I always stop at red lights and am generally pretty understanding and considerate of other road users, but can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't make a full complaint to the guards and hopefully prevent this prick from killing someone in the future?

tomasrojo

I'm not sure how you should proceed, but overtaking with insufficient space is a road offence.

And as you probably know, those cycle facilities marked the pedestrian and cyclists don't fall under the mandatory use statutory instrument, so you were right in saying you could legally use the road.

What is wrong with some DB drivers anyway? Maybe you just met Eggball.

cdaly_

Report to the Gardai promptly and ask them to request the bus cctv footage. Apparently this is deleted within 24 hours or something so you need to act fast...

fat bloke

That's mental. And assault with a deadly weapon as far as I'm concerned.

I don't know how you didn't lose the rag with him completely. I dunno what I would have done, but that kind of sh1t invokes the red mist in my brain.

fenris

Report to the Gardai, don't bother about dublin bus complaints office, they are just there to protect the company from the consequences of their employees behaviour.

What if he kills or maims the next cyclist?, report it to at least show a pattern of behaviour that will make it harder for the bus company to defend against in the event of future incidents or at the very least take away the "it never happened before" defense

Wonder what the chances are of the footage having an accident though!

It doesn't matter if the cycle lane is mandatory use or not, it is not up to a bus driver to enforce the use of cycle lanes through dangerous driving and threatening behaviour.

Bunnyhopper

droidus wrote: »

can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't make a full complaint to the guards and hopefully prevent this prick from killing someone in the future?

Well, I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't.

Doctor Bob

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Well, I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't.

Nor I. As already mentioned:

fenris wrote: »

It doesn't matter if the cycle lane is mandatory use or not, it is not up to a bus driver to enforce the use of cycle lanes through dangerous driving and threatening behaviour.

The issue here is that he tried to run you off the road, not your right to be there.

It just occurred to me that, given the time of day, there's every chance your lady witness is a commuter, so if you needed to find her it mightn't be too tricky.

PS If you're going to mention the contradictory signs (if it were me, I wouldn't overplay this one, but each to his own), I noticed in the Streetview image that the first sign isn't "the standard 'bus & bike' sign" but rather that sign with the bike removed. Maybe it has changed in the meantime, but I thought it was worth mentioning all the same- gotta get those details right!

Good luck with the Guards.

tomasrojo

Thanks to @monument, a lot of these Bus-with-the-bike-blanked-out signs have now been replaced with the correct and legally compliant Bus-with-bike signs.

monument

Most bus drivers are grand, but I'm getting very fed up with the ones who are not.

With my latest serious incident with one driver, really wish I had reported it at the time when I went to the Garda station. But I was going to try contacting Dublin Bus directly first. In the meanwhile, I have misplaced the sheet of paper where I wrote my account of events and the details.

Basically the following happened:

• I was cycling from Frederick Street North downhill into Parnell Square East.
  
• I was in the primary position for cycling straight.
  
• I noticed the bus behind just before entering the junction
  
• About mid way or so across the junction the bus passes me out
  
• The bus pulls in on front of me, suddenly cutting me off
  
• I had to pull my brakes and sharply head for the kerb

I got very few details of the bus or driver, so went after it. By obeying lights and trying to ring traffic watch I only caught up with him just before O'Connell Bridge and again at College Green. At College Green at a red light, the following happened:

• I pass inside of him and get to the advance stop line. I should note that I am not blocking him, the bus was out from the kerb a good bit here and there was nothing stopping him from going forward
  
• I stay close to the kerb as I'm looking around to get a description of him, I make no attempt to block him
  
• He notices me and he seems recognise me
  
• He starts to (what looks like) shout at me, he looks very angry (I can't hear what he's saying and I have not said anything towards him since he tried to cut me off at Parnell Square)
  
• The lights change and he heads straight and fast for the kerb directly on front of me
  
• This was very much so like what he did before, just that I was at a stop / near stop when he did it

It really annoys me that I did not report it when I went to the Garda station -- mostly would have some on me, but got a pen and paper from a garda. Garda said reporting it at a later stage would be the same if I wanted to try Dublin Bus first.

A further reason I should have reported it there and then was that the last time a bus driver cut me off (he "did not see" me even tho he passed closely on a straight road just after traffic lights) the person in Dublin Bus who contacted me seemed just as worried about me sending a photo of the driver to company via email.

Billy7878

well done man screw them, dublin bus drivers did that to me at least twice and suffered damage to my bike and my shoulder, they are scum most of em behind their big buses -Id love to take a crack at a few of them away from their big wheels and slap some sense into them:mad:

Beasty

Billy7878 wrote: »

they are scum most of em behind their big buses -Id love to take a crack at a few of them away from their big wheels and slap some sense into them:mad:

No generalisations, and no advocating violence

Thanks

Beasty

droidus

Doctor Bob wrote: »

PS If you're going to mention the contradictory signs (if it were me, I wouldn't overplay this one, but each to his own), I noticed in the Streetview image that the first sign isn't "the standard 'bus & bike' sign" but rather that sign with the bike removed. Maybe it has changed in the meantime, but I thought it was worth mentioning all the same- gotta get those details right!

Good luck with the Guards.

Yeah, I noticed that myself and thought I was going mad, but then there's this http://maps.google.ie/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=google+maps+claremont+court+glasnevin+dublin&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=11+Claremont+Ct,+Dublin+11,+County+Dublin&gl=ie&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.372762,-6.283814&panoid=riN6ghsV6g0fqsQvgIaQFg&cbp=12,237.83,,0,2.56&ll=53.372682,-6.283686&spn=0.002519,0.004275&z=18 about 50m from where the incident occurred. Im sure theres another one at the previous junction, but a bus is blocking the view on google maps.

Im going to report it today. can I do it through trafficwatch or can I call the station? not going to make it to finglas gardai station till late today and Im worried about DB deleting the CCTV in the meantime.

droidus

Complaint to Dublin Bus, this will also be the basis for my staement to the Guards:

To whom it may concern,

Im writing to make a formal complaint regarding the conduct of one of your drivers.

At approximately 5:45pm last night, 19/10/11 I was cycling northbound at approximately 30kph on the N2 Finglas Road between Claremount Court and Slaney road when a 140 bus with registration number 02d20275 (see attatched photo) overtook me with less than a foot to spare whilst blaring his horn. The bus then pulled in to the left of the road and braked sharply, impeding my progress and causing me to brake to avoid colliding with the bus. At the next set of lights the bus stopped leaving no room for me to pass and then waited for approximately 20 seconds after the lights turned green, further impeding my progress.

I spoke to a passenger who had alighted at the next stop as I waited behind the bus to pull out (which also took an unusually long time) and she told me that the driver had taken this actions to 'get me in the cycle lane'.

I followed the bus towards Finglas village to the Ballybogan road junction where the bus was stopped at the lights. I moved in front of the bus and attempted to photograph the bus reg and driver. The driver covered his face while I did this.

At the next bus top I confronted the driver once he had let all his passengers alight. I asked him what he though he was doing, he responded for me to 'get in my lane' and that I shouldn't be on the road'. I challenged him and mentioned that I have every right to be ion the road. He repeated that I 'should be in the cycle lane'. I told him that his actions were extremely dangerous and that the signage indicated that I was entitled to use the road, again he told me to 'get off the road'. I told him that he would be reported to the guards and moved on. At the next stop I took more photos of the driver and reg, and again the driver covered his face, pulling out from the stop as he did so.

Its clear from both his actions and words that this driver was attempting to 'teach me a lesson' by trying to intimidate and bully me off the road. I would point out that his actions clearly violate the duty of care a bus driver has to both other road users and to his passengers, and also the incredible stupidity and recklessness he displayed in his use of a 14 ton+ vehicle to 'educate' a cyclist. As far as I am concerned this is a clear case of dangerous driving, and I will be reporting this to the Gardai today.

I formally request that all CCTV footage from this journey be retained, and this email will be used as a record of said request.

I also request an acknowledgment that this complaint has been received.

Yours,

markpb

droidus wrote: »

Im going to report it today. can I do it through trafficwatch or can I call the station? not going to make it to finglas gardai station till late today and Im worried about DB deleting the CCTV in the meantime.

If you report it to traffic watch, they'll take your details and fax them to the station which covers the area that the incident took place in. Depending on what else is going on, it might take some time before they look into it and ask you to come in and make a statement.

Email Dublin Bus and let them know what happened, the time/date and bus number and that you'll be making a complaint to the Gardai and request that they keep the CCTV footage. I think they keep it for 48 hours by default.