Point-to-Point Thread

convert

Was anybody at the Shillealagh's point-to-point in Tinahely last Sunday? How was it?

I see they introduced a 2m 4f race for the mares' maiden (last race). Does anyone know why this was done? It wasn't a 4yo maiden - it was the first race and run over 3m.

Is a 2m4f race something we're going to be seeing more of at pont-to-points?

smartaform

There should be some of varying distances. The infra-structure of the p2p is at a level where they should be able to organise such things.

convert

smartaform wrote: »

There should be some of varying distances. The infra-structure of the p2p is at a level where they should be able to organise such things.

Do you not think that would get very messy and pretty much destroy the essence of point-to-pointing?

smartaform

Explain - ''Messy''

Obviously 2m 4f would be a minimum BUT ALL options need to be considered. More horses are going to use P2P's over the coming years i feel AND why shouldn't there be some varying distances?

P2P has the opportunity to grow into an even bigger part of Irish racing heritage, however there is no vision....


How can it grow?

convert

Point-to-points have always been part of the Irish racing heritage and changing distances of races isn't going to impact on that.

smartaform

i'm confused now...

will the distances make a difference or not?? :rolleyes:

s-cogan

kinsales 2day meeting at the start of the summer had several races over 2m4f. a few people said the races were run too fast over the shorter distances. cant say i see it making a real difference overall in p2ps

smartaform

s-cogan wrote: »

kinsales 2day meeting at the start of the summer had several races over 2m4f. a few people said the races were run too fast over the shorter distances. cant say i see it making a real difference overall in p2ps

The races were run too fast???
That would be an odd complaint from those who had horses in the race. A unique selling point if i ever saw one.
My point is there should be the option of a 2m 4f version of MOST races. Some horses just do not see out the 3miles and 3f less isn't going to hurt anyone. If anything, it would open up one extra area of knowledge if you were selling on P2P horses.

convert

smartaform wrote: »

The races were run too fast???
That would be an odd complaint from those who had horses in the race. A unique selling point if i ever saw one.

So you want to see more races where horses go flat out for three miles while negotiating fences and whoever can go fastest for longest wins? :rolleyes:

My point is there should be the option of a 2m 4f version of MOST races. Some horses just do not see out the 3miles and 3f less isn't going to hurt anyone. If anything, it would open up one extra area of knowledge if you were selling on P2P horses.

Unless you have a horse who's an out-and-out stayer.

With all races being the same there's no hassle in entering, but if it changes then it'll become more like finding a race on the track, and could go for a month without having a race only to have three or four races held over one weekend.

smartaform

So you want to see more races where horses go flat out for three miles while negotiating fences and whoever can go fastest for longest wins?

Isn't that the point of Horse Racing?

If you also read my post at all except for parts you wanted to attack, i said there should be the option of a 2m 4f race AS WELL....
The introduction of varying distances will only improve the P2P system (which is good now but can be better), hopefully improve some tracks so they can cater for these AND also improve the tactics and judgement of those theives on horseback.

s-cogan

smartaform wrote: »

So you want to see more races where horses go flat out for three miles while negotiating fences and whoever can go fastest for longest wins?

Isn't that the point of Horse Racing?

If you also read my post at all except for parts you wanted to attack, i said there should be the option of a 2m 4f race AS WELL....
The introduction of varying distances will only improve the P2P system (which is good now but can be better), hopefully improve some tracks so they can cater for these AND also improve the tactics and judgement of those theives on horseback.

i agree that the option for shorter races would be handy, but i really cant see it becoming mainstream.
also, regarding the complaint of races run too fast, it was a small number of trainers who said it, and most of them were trainers of good horses who had won over 3m+ and felt hard done by at 2m4

smartaform

S-C dont think i'm having a dig at you, i remember those comments coming from trainers, but in their comes some common sense on their behalf - a 2m 4f is going to be that bit slicker... the work they do at home will be able to say if tthey could have that bit of zippiness for a shorter race - SO WHY put a horse who is best suited to 3m over a shorter distance??

The clearest example of my reasoning there should be a few OPTIONS available, is the number of horses Pulled Up each race or those who are under the stick after a lap...
Take this scenario - You have a 5yr old mare, not up to track standard and she won't stay 3 miles, however jumps well and COULD stay 2m-2m4f!!

There are plenty of horses around this country who just need to be placed right. The P2P community is there willing to support any race meeting and all we need is the infrastructure - which is just about there. People have to stand aside of tradition as if we dont there will be NO P2P in 10 years time.
3m races should be the CORE but we need to at least offer these other options as well.

convert

smartaform wrote: »

There are plenty of horses around this country who just need to be placed right. The P2P community is there willing to support any race meeting and all we need is the infrastructure - which is just about there.

You also need to remember that the organisers of point-to-points are volunteers and amateurs. If you ask too much of them or screw them about they won't be there.

People have to stand aside of tradition as if we dont there will be NO P2P in 10 years time.
3m races should be the CORE but we need to at least offer these other options as well.

Point-to-point steeplechasing has existed for well over 250 years. There's no fear that it won't be around in 10 years time. People threw that argument around about 10 or 15 years ago when there were only a handful of runners in each race. Now look where we are.

smartaform

You also need to remember that the organisers of point-to-points are volunteers and amateurs. If you ask too much of them or screw them about they won't be there.

Yes, if things were done properly, they would be paid. That would be un-irish though..


Point-to-point steeplechasing has existed for well over 250 years. There's no fear that it won't be around in 10 years time. People threw that argument around about 10 or 15 years ago when there were only a handful of runners in each race. Now look where we are.

Are trainers loosing horses daily? YES
Are owners walking away from the sport DAILY?? YES
Is the prizemoney rubbish? YES

So if people are going to lose money and couple that with the lack of opportunities for some horses how are they going to go racing?
The time for holding onto the tradition arguement has come. Tradition is always going to be apart of the sport AS LONG AS it continue's to grow and adapt.

s-cogan

dont worry about it smartafaorm, i know where your coming from, and i agree with your idea about the options. but i dont think it will catch on

smartaform

P2P Website looks to have been hacked!! Seriously now...

convert

smartaform wrote: »

P2P Website looks to have been hacked!! Seriously now...

Just had a quick look and it's back to normal now

chippiec1

Hi there, just wondering if anyone knew what has happened to Carronhills? - he hasnt run for a while but is entered at Doncaster sales....?

convert

Anybody heading to the Kildare's point-to-point at Punchestown this Sunday (13 Feb)? First race is at 1pm.

smartaform

dont think so.

califano

convert wrote: »

Anybody heading to the Kildare's point-to-point at Punchestown this Sunday (13 Feb)? First race is at 1pm.

How did this go. How many races took place and were these over the banks course at punchestown racecourse?.
Is there any websites online that reviews particular point to points?.

Any future Kildare point-to-point meets in the pipeline?

convert

rounders123 wrote: »

How did this go. How many races took place and were these over the banks course at punchestown racecourse?.
Is there any websites online that reviews particular point to points?.

Any future Kildare point-to-point meets in the pipeline?

It went very well - good weather (especially considering the weather forecast) and great racing. There were 8 races (2 races divided, so not so bad.

None of the races took place over the banks course (most point-to-points are held over bush fence courses, only a handful have banks races).

Most hunts only hold one point-to-point a year, so the Kildare's next point-to-point will be next year.

p2p.ie is the only 'dedicated' website for point-to-points, but be prepared to wait a while while each page loads, but as far as I know it doesn't usually give much of a review of each meeting. Your best bet for good reviews and detailed form would be the Irish Field each Saturday.

convert

February

Sat 19 Brosna (F) Durrow, Tullamore, Co. Offaly. L/H

Sat 19 Tynan & Armagh (H) Farmacaffley, Co. Armagh. R/H

Sun 20 Bray (H) Fairwood, Tinahely, Co. Wicklow. R/H

Sun 20 Brosna (F) Durrow, Tullamore, Co. Offaly. L/H

Sun 20 Duhallow (F) Kildorrery Rockmills, Co. Cork. R/H

Sun 20 East Clare (H) Garranboy, Killaloe, Co. Clare. R/H
[/quote]
Sun 27 Carbery (F) Kilpatrick, Bandon, Co. Cork. R/H

Sun 27 Co. Limerick (F) Rathcannon Rathcannon, Athlacca, Co. Limerick. L/H

Sun 27 Kilkenny (F) Kilbline, Bennettsbridge, Co. Kilkenny. R/H


March

Sat 5 Doneraile (F) Dromahane, Mallow, Co. Cork. L/H

Sat 5 East Down (F) Tyrella, Downpatrick, Co. Down. R/H

Sun 6 Kilworth & Araglen (H) Ballynalacken, Kilworth, Co. Cork. R/H

Sun 6 Limerick (H) Lemonfield Crecora, Co. Limerick. L/H

Sun 6 South Westmeath (H) Listisson, The Pigeons, Athlone. L/H

Sun 13 Cloyne (H) Cloyne, Co. Cork. L/H

Sun 13 Killinick (H) Lingstown, Tomhaggard, Co. Wexford. R/H

Sun 13 North Galway (F) Belclare, Tuam, Co. Galway. R/H

Sun 13 Premier (H) Horse and Jockey, Co. Tipperary. L/H

Sat 19 Iveagh (H) Bells Hill, Maralin, Co. Down. L/H

Sun 20 North Kilkenny (F) Parksgrove, Ballyragget, Kilkenny. R/H

Sun 20 West Waterford (F) Lismore Castle Farm, Co. Waterford. L/H

Sat 26 Co. Down (S) Derrydrummuck, Loughbrickland, Co. Down. L/H

Sun 27 Duhallow (F) Liscarroll Knockardbane, Liscarroll, Mallow, Co. Cork. L/H

Sun 27 Galway Blazers (F) Dartfield, Kilrickle, Loughrea, Co. Galway. R/H

Sun 27 Tipperary (F) Lisronagh Lisronagh, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary. L/H

Sun 27 Wexford (F) Lingstown, Tomhaggard, Co. Wexford. R/H


April

Sat 2 North Down (F) Kirkistown, Portavogie, Co. Down. L/H

Sun 3 Bree (F) Monksgrange, Rathnure, Enniscorthy, Co. Wexford. L/H

Sun 3 Suirvale (H) Fairyhill, Templemore, Co. Tipperary. R/H

Sun 3 United Hunt (F) Ballynoe Garryanne, Killavorilla, Kilclare, Cork. R/H

Sun 3 Westmeath (F) Castletown-Geoghegan, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath. L/H

Sat 9 Route (H) Carrowmena, Carrowclare Rd., Limavady. L/H

Sun 10 Carlow Farmers (F) Borris House, Borris, Co. Carlow. L/H

Sun 10 Duhallow (F) Dromahane Dromahane, Mallow, Co. Cork. L/H

Sun 10 Louth (F) Rathnestin, Tallanstown, Co. Louth. L/H

Sun 10 North Kerry (H) Gortnaskehy, Ballybunion, Co. Kerry. R/H

Fri 15 Killultagh, Old Rock & Chichester (H) Largy Road, Crumlin, Co. Antrim. R/H

Sat 16 Killultagh, Old Rock & Chichester (H) Largy Road, Crumlin, Co. Antrim. R/H

Sun 17 Killeady (H) Dromahane, Mallow, Co. Cork. L/H

Sun 17 Limerick (F) Kilmallock Bulgaden, Kilmallock, Co. Limerick. R/H

Wed 20 Killeagh (H) Inch Ballyanthony, Tallow, Co. Cork. R/H

Sun 24 Ballymacad (F) Newcastle, Oldcastle, Co. Meath. L/H

Sun 24 Co. Clare (H) Dromoland Quackerstown, Boston, Co. Clare. L/H

Sun 24 Laois (F) Stradbally Hall, Stradbally, Co. Laois. R/H

Sun 24 Waterford (F) Kill, Co. Waterford. L/H

Mon 25 East Antrim (H) Loughanmore, Dunadry, Co. Antrim. L/H

Tue 26 East Antrim (H) Loughanmore, Dunadry, Co. Antrim. L/H

Sat 30 Newry (H) Taylorstown, Co. Down. R/H

Sat 30 Tipperary (F) Lisronagh Lisronagh, Clonmel, Co. Tipperary. L/H

May

Sun 1 East Galway (F) Feighmore, Eyrecourt, Co. Galway. R/H

Sun 1 Meath (F) & Tara (H) Tattersalls Farm, Fairyhouse, Co. Meath. R/H

Sun 1 Muskerry (F) Dawstown Birch Hill, Grenagh, Co. Cork. R/H

Sun 1 Stonehall (H) Ballysteen Askeaton, Co. Limerick. L/H

Mon 2 Muskerry (F) Birch Hill, Grenagh, Co. Cork. R/H

Sat 7 Co. Limerick (F) Athlacca Tullerboy, Co. Limerick. R/H

Sat 7 Mid Antrim (H) Moneyglass, Toomebridge, Co. Antrim. L/H

Sun 8 United Hunt (F) Ballindenisk Watergrasshill, Co. Cork. R/H

Fri 13 Fermanagh (H) Necarne, Irvinestown, Co. Fermanagh. L/H

Sat 14 Fermanagh (H) Necarne, Irvinestown, Co. Fermanagh. L/H

Sun 15 Co. Sligo (H) Sligo Racecourse, Cleveragh, Co. Sligo. R/H

Sun 15 United Hunt (F) Bartlemy Hightown, Bartlemy, Co. Cork. R/H

Sun 22 Duhallow (F) Kanturk Dromahane, Mallow, Co. Cork. L/H

Sun 22 Laois (F)Stradbally Hall, Stradbally, Co. Laois. R/H

Sun 29 Carbery (F) Clonakilty Inchydoney, Clonakilty, Co. Cork. R/H

June

Sat 4 South Union (F) Kinsale Farrangalway, Kinsale, Co. Cork. L/H
Sun 5 Ormond (F) Southpark, Ballingarry, Roscrea, Tipperary. R/H
Sun 5 South Union (F) Kinsale Farrangalway, Kinsale, Co. Cork. L/H
Mon 6 Ormond (F) Southpark, Ballingarry, Roscrea, Tipperary. R/H [/quote]

smartaform

convert wrote: »

It went very well - good weather (especially considering the weather forecast) and great racing. There were 8 races (2 races divided, so not so bad.

None of the races took place over the banks course (most point-to-points are held over bush fence courses, only a handful have banks races).

Most hunts only hold one point-to-point a year, so the Kildare's next point-to-point will be next year.

p2p.ie is the only 'dedicated' website for point-to-points, but be prepared to wait a while while each page loads, but as far as I know it doesn't usually give much of a review of each meeting. Your best bet for good reviews and detailed form would be the Irish Field each Saturday.

Or ask a few of us for p2p form, there is a few of us who can provide ACCURATE comments....
Aint that right convert???

califano

smartaform wrote: »

Or ask a few of us for p2p form, there is a few of us who can provide ACCURATE comments....
Aint that right convert???

You two are like a boards version of a Cheltenham preview nite panel!. One comes away addled with all the conflicting scenarios!:D

smartaform

Lol... Classic

In all seriousness rounders, the form or 'race analysis' (generally focuses on the first 2/3 anyway so really a winning analysis) on the p2p site is seriously flawed and there is no desire from anyone concerned on p2p.ie OR the turf club to provide the public with accurate information - both Race analysis and in-running comments.

This is a major insult to those attending as they pay to go and also spend some hard earned at the meets betting away using flawed information as their guide.
I've said before P2P is an amazing part of the industry which some parts can be improved to help it really thrive.

AND i dont think convert can say too much being a mod LOL :rolleyes:

califano

smartaform wrote: »

Lol... Classic

In all seriousness rounders, the form or 'race analysis' (generally focuses on the first 2/3 anyway so really a winning analysis) on the p2p site is seriously flawed and there is no desire from anyone concerned on p2p.ie OR the turf club to provide the public with accurate information - both Race analysis and in-running comments.

This is a major insult to those attending as they pay to go and also spend some hard earned at the meets betting away using flawed information as their guide.
I've said before P2P is an amazing part of the industry which some parts can be improved to help it really thrive.

AND i dont think convert can say too much being a mod LOL :rolleyes:

Yeah i agree that resources dont seem to be put into p2p very well. That said the media always seem proud to say that such and such a pearl has emerged from the point to point field. Surely it should work both ways.

convert

Form is always something that is tedious and demands huge attention and work from those compiling it. However, I have noticed some, ermmm, inaccuracies on the p2p site (the majority of the point-to-point race analyses for one of the horses I rode was not quite accurate). Maybe it'll improve as the site becomes even more established?

smartaform

One would hope so.
Being the age of information, the least they could do was provide said resources.

Form does take a good while to compile accurately, however, given around 50% dont finish some races, I've found it relatively easy.. That is in comparison to say a meeting in the USA..

s-cogan

convert wrote: »

Form is always something that is tedious and demands huge attention and work from those compiling it. However, I have noticed some, ermmm, inaccuracies on the p2p site (the majority of the point-to-point race analyses for one of the horses I rode was not quite accurate). Maybe it'll improve as the site becomes even more established?

same here.
what part of the country do you ride in??