Czech move to block treaty!

procure11

Apparently some euroskeptic senators in the Czech parliament has signed a petition to the country's constitutional court ,essentially it means even if Ireland votes Yes to the lisbon treaty this friday,the EU have to wait for another six months for the Czech courts to decide on the case.



Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8281098.stm


This treaty seems to causing a lot of division .

moondogspot

I find it laughable that I received an infraction for reporting this story on the Czechs earlier

today. It seems anything that threatens the Yes side here warrants an infraction.


PS. I have a feeling that President Vaclav Klaus wants a British referendum to sink Lisbon.

CCCP^

If Lisbon was to be prolonged until the Conservatives get in power in the UK, then it's history.

procure11

moondogspot wrote: »

I have a feeling that President Vaclav Klaus wants a British referendum to sink Lisbon.

The old gun is using every trick in the book to make this happen.If you my calculations are right ,the decision would not be made until about April next year..just in time for the UK general elections.

Rb

A lot of division?

The overwhelming majority have already ratified the treaty.

prinz

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055696027

It's been done chief.

CCCP^

Rb wrote: »

A lot of division?

The overwhelming majority have already ratified the treaty.

Parliaments have ratified it. If it were put to a popular vote, Lisbon would have been crushed. You can't deny that. Alot of people in the rest of the EU are angry they haven't had a chance to have a say in this.

WeeBushy

CCCP^ wrote: »

Parliaments have ratified it. If it were put to a popular vote, Lisbon would have been crushed. You can't deny that. Alot of people in the rest of the EU are angry they haven't had a chance to have a say in this.

That's opinion.

Besides how other countries ratify treaties is no concern of ours, the EU's or the Lisbon Treaty. Who are we to tell other countries how run themselves?

CCCP^

WeeBushy wrote: »

That's opinion.

Besides how other countries ratify treaties is no concern of ours, the EU's or the Lisbon Treaty. Who are we to tell other countries how run themselves?

HAHA! ...the irony of that statement has me on the floor, thanks mate Well, we don't tell other countries how to run themselves, but I'm not so sure about the other way..

Rb

CCCP^ wrote: »

Parliaments have ratified it. If it were put to a popular vote, Lisbon would have been crushed. You can't deny that. Alot of people in the rest of the EU are angry they haven't had a chance to have a say in this.

Yes, so angry that they've revolted and new governments are popping up throughout Europe.

Oh wait, no, they're clearly not angry enough to do anything more than ranting on the internet about it, like most of the No voters who are voting against FF.

I can deny it, there's nowhere near sufficient evidence to suggest that the rest of Europe don't want it or are having it forced down their throats. There have been protests in France, I'll give you that, with a turnout of about 20 people.

But hey, at least if Lisbon goes through, all these angry little people will need to do in future is gather 1 million signatures and they can turn things around.

As has been said, if they're not happy with their voting system it's not our problem, let them take it up with their own governments or *gasp* overthrow the government if they're so passionate about it.

namloc1980

CCCP^ wrote: »

Parliaments have ratified it. If it were put to a popular vote, Lisbon would have been crushed. You can't deny that. Alot of people in the rest of the EU are angry they haven't had a chance to have a say in this.

Complete and utter opinion. The Constitutional Treaty (forerunner of Lisbon) was put to vote in 4 countries in 2005. 27m people voted in favour of it, 23m voted against it. That is fact BTW. To say it would have been 'crushed' is opinion, not fact.

prinz

CCCP^ wrote: »

HAHA! ...the irony of that statement has me on the floor, thanks mate Well, we don't tell other countries how to run themselves, but I'm not so sure about the other way..

Why, how told us to do anything we haven't already done ourselves?

namloc1980

stevenmartin99 wrote: »

If your unsure of what to vote look at http://www.coircampaign.org/index.php/facts-and-figures/factsandfigures

If your unsure of what to vote - VOTE NO!

Dont vote YES if you are unsure of why you are doing so

That website is absolutely hilarious, thanks for that, needed a good laugh. BTW shouldn't you be trying to persude ppl to go with you instead of saying......duh...."If your unsure of what to vote - VOTE NO!"....that is just pathetic!

amacachi

namloc1980 wrote: »

Complete and utter opinion. The Constitutional Treaty (forerunner of Lisbon) was put to vote in 4 countries in 2005. 27m people voted in favour of it, 23m voted against it. That is fact BTW. To say it would have been 'crushed' is opinion, not fact.

Again that was the Constitution, not the Lisbon Treaty. A lot of the objections were to do with the flag/anthem etc. which have been removed. A 56/44 vote is close enough and I'd take a guess that had the Lisbon Treaty originally been put to those countries it would have passed in all.

Rb

stevenmartin99 wrote: »

If your unsure of what to vote look at http://www.coircampaign.org/index.php/facts-and-figures/factsandfigures

If your unsure of what to vote - VOTE NO!

Dont vote YES if you are unsure of why you are doing so

Coir are the biggest retards in this entire referendum and noone, not even the most strict No voters here, have been willing to post links to their "campaign".

So, thanks for that I guess, new level of amusement.

Run_to_da_hills

Rb wrote: »

Coir are the biggest retards in this entire referendum and noone, not even the most strict No voters here, have been willing to post links to their "campaign".

So, thanks for that I guess, new level of amusement.

At least Coir did a good job on the Catholic Church.

My old man of 86 is voting NO after picking up a copy of Alive, he told me he was surprised to see that the Catholic church was on the NO side. I said nothing. .

K-9

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

At least Coir did a good job on the Catholic Church.

My old man of 86 is voting NO after picking up a copy of Alive, he told me he was surprised to see that the Catholic church was on the NO side. I said nothing. .

Good God. Coir just moved up in my estimation.

WeeBushy

CCCP^ wrote: »

HAHA! ...the irony of that statement has me on the floor, thanks mate Well, we don't tell other countries how to run themselves, but I'm not so sure about the other way..

And whoever basis how they vote on their opinions are weak, unintelligent individuals.

CCCP^

Rb wrote: »

Yes, so angry that they've revolted and new governments are popping up throughout Europe.

Oh wait, no, they're clearly not angry enough to do anything more than ranting on the internet about it, like most of the No voters who are voting against FF.

I can deny it, there's nowhere near sufficient evidence to suggest that the rest of Europe don't want it or are having it forced down their throats. There have been protests in France, I'll give you that, with a turnout of about 20 people.

But hey, at least if Lisbon goes through, all these angry little people will need to do in future is gather 1 million signatures and they can turn things around.

As has been said, if they're not happy with their voting system it's not our problem, let them take it up with their own governments or *gasp* overthrow the government if they're so passionate about it.

I'm sorry, from your comments, I was led to believe that people should violently overthrow their elected governments in order to demand change? I guess most people in Europe would rather do things peacefully rather than force their own citizens into a frightened and threathened position where they will do exactly as they desire if they believe there is no alternative, as is our current position.

We've been through two world wars, vicious civil wars, genocide, famines, revolutions. I don't think the apathetic and beleaguered people of Europe could be bothered to get out there and halt Lisbon where there faced with the greatest economic crisis of our times, mostly because they aren't aware of what is happening. When they were asked to approve of the European Constitution in the Netherlands and France, they voted No. The European Constitution IS the Lisbon Treaty, they've just dropped the references to the Constitution, even the highest levels of government across the EU agree that the treaty preserves the main substance of the Constitution. In essence, its the same thing. It has just been reworked in order for it to be passed without resorting to ask the people of Europe if they approve or not. You can't deny this. Obviously the people of Europe cannot be trusted and tasked to approve of the future of Europe, where we want to go and what kind of world we want to live in.

That's a joke and it makes a mockery of us all, robs us of our dignity, of our democratic rights, but of course if you don't have the sense to realise your getting shafted, then you deserve everything you get. Lisbon SHOULD have been renegotiated if not condemned to history. Why did nobody ask why the French and Dutch said No to the EC? Is that gift only reserved to the Irish? Essentially the electorates wish there was also ignored since the EC is the Lisbon Treaty. But of course when Sarkozy visits Dublin, the collaborators are informed they must ask the same question to their subjects again! Lets like a bad episode of Allo Allo!

The last time I checked, the combined populations of France and the Netherlands were more than that of Spain and Luxembourg. Luxembourg is smaller than Leinster with about 500,000 people there and Spain's vote recieved one of the lowest voter turnouts of it's democratic history. If it had to be asked to the rest of Europe, they would have voted overwhemingly No. If democracy is about who votes more one way than the other as it appears to be to you namloc1980, I suggest you sit down and do the maths.

Europeans do not want to relinquish their national sovereignty, we have paid dearly for it in blood and misery, waited decades, hundreds of years, but we prevailed because we were brave, wanted our own voice, because our fathers and mothers were strong people. With Lisbon, our future is going to be decided by a core few, because presumingly little nations cannot survive anymore in the present day and age and cannot be trusted to make their own decisions anymore. We are leaving a multilateral world and entering one where one voice will be heard.

By 2014, what do you think Ireland's population will be? 60 million? 100 million? Because with Qualified Majority Voting, thats the only way our voice will be heard. The only way we can survive in the Lisbon EU is if we team up with smaller nations. With Lisbon, smaller countries will suffer and we are definetly one of those, because by that time, there will be a smaller European Commission, regardless of what people say about Nice and losing our Commissioner. Any serious renegotiation of Lisbon should have included a right by Ireland to keep its Commissioner. By 2014, nations such as the Ukraine and Turkey could be in the EU, and with QMV, they could have the potential to outweigh our say since new accession states are they mostly likely to suckle off the EU tit in order to subdue their populations that they are leading them to a better way of life. By 2014 also many of our own checks will be removed like national vetoes. What happens from Lisbon onwards may not be voted on, may not be renegotiated. It will be diktat.

With Lisbon, EU law will supercede Irish law. In Britain, they changed that so that British law would remain the higher power across the UK and also in Poland, why couldn't we have done the same? Was that too much to ask?

Euro_Kraut

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

At least Coir did a good job on the Catholic Church.

My old man of 86 is voting NO after picking up a copy of Alive, he told me he was surprised to see that the Catholic church was on the NO side. I said nothing. .

Do you think its funny to lie to your 86 year old father? That is an appalling thing to do to a man of his age. You would rather get one more vote for your political side than fill your own Dad in on the Lisbon treaty.

I am repulsed.

moondogspot

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Do you think its funny to lie to your 86 year old father? That is an appalling thing to do to a man of his age. You would rather get one more vote for your political side than fill your own Dad in on the Lisbon treaty.

I am repulsed.

Who said that his father wouldn't be voting no regardless?

K-9

moondogspot wrote: »

Who said that his father wouldn't be voting no regardless?

Read the quote again. The Catholic Church are Neutral.

Euro_Kraut

moondogspot wrote: »

Who said that his father wouldn't be voting no regardless?

Eh read the post, he stated that his Dad is voting No after picking a copy of Alive. We can infer clearly from that, that beforehand he read it he was not voting No and that his mind was changed after reading Alive.

Do you condone his actions? Do you think its okay to lie to your aging father about politics? I would imagine you (like most) would never do that as the bond of trust between family superceeds all politics.

moondogspot

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Do you think its okay to lie to your aging father about politics? I would imagine you (like most) would never do that as the bond of trust between family superceeds all politics.

In all fairness there's no need to react like a drama queen to his post.:)

View

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'm sorry, from your comments, I was led to believe that people should violently overthrow their elected governments in order to demand change?

We have this strange concept called "elections". In them you get to vote for the people who you believe most closely represents your own opinions.

Oddly enough, a few shorts months ago - in the European elections - approx. 80-90% of the combined EU electorate who voted, voted in favour of pro-EU/pro-Lisbon candidates.

Which of course leaves us with the dilemma that either they don't know what they are doing or alternatively that you don't know what you are talking about. I wonder which it is?

mayordenis

So what? if his dad is basing his vote on a wanky church anyway it's stupid vote either way. (not saying anything about the man probably great)

marco_polo

CCCP^ wrote: »

With Lisbon, EU law will supercede Irish law. In Britain, they changed that so that British law would remain the higher power across the UK and also in Poland, why couldn't we have done the same? Was that too much to ask?

European law has always superceeded the laws of member states always has and always will. Where you appear to be confused is that Britain got a protocol containing a clarification that the Charter of Fundamental Rights can only be applied to challenge European law, not to British National law. Which exactly the same situation as for all other member states.

CCCP^

View wrote: »

We have this strange concept called "elections". In them you get to vote for the people who you believe most closely represents your own opinions.

Oddly enough, a few shorts months ago - in the European elections - approx. 80-90% of the combined EU electorate who voted, voted in favour of pro-EU/pro-Lisbon candidates.

Which of course leaves us with the dilemma that either they don't know what they are doing or alternatively that you don't know what you are talking about. I wonder which it is?

Except in this country. Europe went right, we went left, odd that. Have you heard of the French and Dutch votes on the European Constitution, which is the Lisbon treaty? Why don't you try pick apart the rest of what I said earlier, too hard to spin in the 'right' direction?

PomBear

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Do you think its funny to lie to your 86 year old father? That is an appalling thing to do to a man of his age. You would rather get one more vote for your political side than fill your own Dad in on the Lisbon treaty.

I am repulsed.

Fianna Failure, Fine Gael, Labour and IrelandforEurope are lying to hundreds of thousands of people (some 86 and older) to get their votes rather than educate the people they represent, they'd prefer to scare them into voting.

Thats what i'm repulsed about

K-9

mayordenis wrote: »

So what? if his dad is basing his vote on a wanky church anyway it's stupid vote either way. (not saying anything about the man probably great)

Nope. Rtdh knows the Catholic Church position, it is Neutral, make your own mind up.

His Dad inferred they wanted a No?
And RTDH said nothing.

FF Cute H*or politics at its best.

mayordenis

K-9 wrote: »

Nope. Rtdh knows the Catholic Church position, it is Neutral, make your own mind up.

His Dad inferred they wanted a No?
And RTDH said nothing.

FF Cute H*or politics at its best.

There's still a logical failure here - if someone makes there choice based on something like the church's stance then there vote is almost certainly going to be wasted.
Anyway rtdh has no obligation to be rallying for a yes vote and I'm undecided here the only thing I'm sure of is that both sides have covered themselves in feces.