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Thousands of Non-Irish sent polling cards.

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124

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    #92
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    TheReverend wrote: »
    its-a-conspiracy.jpg

    It is far from a conspiracy, my boy. It has been widely reported in the media that thousands of foreigners have been issued with polling cards.


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    #93
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    PaulieD wrote: »
    It is far from a conspiracy, my boy. It has been widely reported in the media that thousands of foreigners have been issued with polling cards.

    And as has been pointed out they couldn't vote in the referendum unless they hold an Irish passport.


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    #94
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    Dinner wrote: »
    And as has been pointed out they couldn't vote in the referendum unless they hold an Irish passport.

    I wasnt asked for identification. I just flashed the polling card. I didnt see one person being asked for their passport.


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    #95
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I wasnt asked for identification. I just flashed the polling card. I didnt see one person being asked for their passport.

    So you assumed that anyone with a foreign accent couldn't possibly be an Irish citizen with no proof whatsoever...


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    #96
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I wasnt asked for identification. I just flashed the polling card. I didnt see one person being asked for their passport.


    Probably because you didn't have a letter beside your name. If you had a D, E or L beside their name then you would be asked to produce an Irish passport or you couldn't vote. That is exactly the situation that people like myself and Agent J were faced with today.


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    #97
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    prinz wrote: »
    So you assumed that anyone with a foreign accent couldn't possibly be an Irish citizen with no proof whatsoever...

    Just like you are presuming that they are all Irish citizens.


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    #98
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Just like you are presuming that they are all Irish citizens.

    I'm not :confused:


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    #99
    0utshined
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭0utshined


    Alan Rouge wrote: »
    Voting in a referendum and not having an Irish passport does not constitute committing fraud.
    Euro_Kraut wrote: »
    As a non-Irish citizen you have no entitlement to vote in a referendum. If you cast a vote that you are not entitled to cast you are committing electoral fraud.

    You are both right in what you are saying but I think the point Alan was making was that you can be an Irish citizen and allowed to vote in a referendum but that doesn't mean you have to have a passport. You might have one but it doesn't affect your eligibility to vote in a referendum, it's only something that can be used to establish your identity if needed.


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    #100
    f3qh5g0z6vc7ob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭f3qh5g0z6vc7ob


    Id hate to have been the people at the polling stations where this happened and having to try explain that it was a mistake to the people turning up with the cards


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    #101
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PaulieD wrote: »
    They voted alright, mon amie. I seen it with my own two eyes. Disgraceful.

    You seen them vote Yes with your 2 eyes.

    Enough said.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #102
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Just like you are presuming that they are all Irish citizens.
    I'm actually presuming that "they" don't exist, because all we've got to go on so far is your word that you watched a load of 'Slavs' voting. I'm going to need something a little more concrete than that before I grab my pitch fork and go hunting for the foreigners who are stealing our votes.


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    #103
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I wasnt asked for identification. I just flashed the polling card. I didnt see one person being asked for their passport.

    I would presume people with Polish surnames etc. would come under more scrutiny.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #104
    0utshined
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭0utshined


    PaulieD wrote: »
    It is a seven year wait to gain Irish citizenship. They arrived en masse in 2004.

    There were dozens of eastern europeans in and around the polling centre. Thats a fact. Did I see some voting? Yes. Did they all obtain Irish citizenship? No chance.

    In some instances maybe but not in all. It's even been stated earlier in this thread :
    procure11 wrote: »
    FYI:You get Irish citizenship after marraige to an Irish citizen for 3 years(I guess much to your disgust!!)

    And for confirmation : link

    That's veering off topic though. Like Agent J I was working at a station in North Kildare today and had people coming in who weren't eligible to vote. I had about 8 people or so who'd received polling cards that I couldn't issue a ballot paper to. Mostly the usual faces who make the effort to vote every time but understood the situation when it was explained to them.

    It was a mistake to send polling cards out to everyone on the list but things happen. It sounds like someone used the file from the local elections a few months ago instead of generating a new one. Anyway, as has been said before getting a card doesn't mean a person has a vote.


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    #105
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    0utshined wrote: »
    Like Agent J I was working at a station in North Kildare today and had people coming in who weren't eligible to vote. I had about 8 people or so who'd received polling cards that I couldn't issue a ballot paper to. Mostly the usual faces who make the effort to vote every time but understood the situation when it was explained to them..

    ..plus I'm quite sure no one gets away with "flashing the polling card" as Paulie claimed he did. I had mine taken, compared to the register, he checked name and address, as he read them off, then he had a ruler across the register, confirmed I was eligible, cross me off the list and confirmed to the lady with the ballot papers that I was ok to receive one.


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    #106
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    prinz wrote: »
    ..plus I'm quite sure no one gets away with "flashing the polling card" as Paulie claimed he did. I had mine taken, compared to the register, he checked name and address, as he read them off, then he had a ruler across the register, confirmed I was eligible, cross me off the list and confirmed to the lady with the ballot papers that I was ok to receive one.

    Exact same process for me.

    Aren't they required to tick you off, and verify that your name is down as being eligible to vote in this election? That's what I've always seen done.


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    #107
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    Exact same process for me.

    Aren't they required to tick you off, and verify that your name is down as being eligible to vote in this election? That's what I've always seen done.

    Yes they are. They can tell from the list in front of them if you're eligible or not to vote regardless of whether you have a polling card or not. Of course not in Paulie's polling centre, where all you have to do is flash your polling card and that's it.;)


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    #108
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Thousands my eye. They have no need for Irish passports as they are members of the EU. It is a seven year wait to gain Irish citizenship. They arrived en masse in 2004.

    There were dozens of eastern europeans in and around the polling centre. Thats a fact. Did I see some voting? Yes. Did they all obtain Irish citizenship? No chance.

    Maybe some married Irish citizens?

    Did you ask them if they where married and who to?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #109
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    prinz wrote: »
    Yes they are. They can tell from the list in front of them if you're eligible or not to vote regardless of whether you have a polling card or not. Of course not in Paulie's polling centre, where all you have to do is flash your polling card and that's it.;)

    I heard if you have a Slavic accent or even look Slavic (apparently Muslim Bosniaks, Catholic Poles and Orthodox Serbs all look, sound and think exactly the same) you don't even have to show your polling card, they just give you three ballots automatically. You do however, have to shout out how you're voting, so that concerned citizens can know that you're voting Yes, unlike your cousin Stanislaw back in the old country, who will vote No.


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    #110
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    K-9 wrote: »
    Maybe some married Irish citizens?

    Did you ask them if they where married and who to?

    There are foreign nationals, in this very thread, who claim that they have voted in the last referendum. It has been reported in the media that thousands of foreigners were issued with polling cards this time around. Still, people refuse to believe that foreign nationals voted, once again, in this referendum. The mind boggles, it really does.


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    #111
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    I heard if you have a Slavic accent or even look Slavic (apparently Muslim Bosniaks, Catholic Poles and Orthodox Serbs all look, sound and think exactly the same) you don't even have to show your polling card, they just give you three ballots automatically. You do however, have to shout out how you're voting, so that concerned citizens can know that you're voting Yes, unlike your cousin Stanislaw back in the old country, who will vote No.

    Can you not tell an eastern european by their accent? I can, rather easily.


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    #112
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    K-9 wrote: »
    I would presume people with Polish surnames etc. would come under more scrutiny.

    I would presume that they wouldnt get a polling card in the first place!


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    #113
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Can you not tell an eastern european by their accent? I can, rather easily.

    Slav does not equal Eastern European.

    I could make a fair guess based on accent for Poland, Russia, maybe Czech Republic and Slovakia at a stretch. After that I wouldn't have a clue on how to tell if someone was from Hungary, Slovenia, Belarus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Albania, Bulgaria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia.....so no, couldn't really tell if they were Eastern, Central, South Eastern...

    Also, I still don't have the ability to tell if someone is a citizen of Ireland from their accent. Or even from their skin colour. Funny that, huh?


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    #114
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I would presume that they wouldnt get a polling card in the first place!

    If they're citizens, why not?


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    #115
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    MikeC101 wrote: »
    If they're citizens, why not?

    Read the link in my opening post. They are "non nationals"(hate that word), ie non Irish citizens.


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    #116
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Read the link in my opening post. They are "non nationals"(hate that word), ie non Irish citizens.


    You can be non-national and still be a citizen Paulie :D The article isn't using it in it's legal sense see "non-Irish nationals".


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    #117
    PaulieD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 932 ✭✭✭PaulieD


    prinz wrote: »
    You can be non-national and still be a citizen Paulie :D The article isn't using it in it's legal sense see "non-Irish nationals".

    Non national literally means a stateless person, and under Human Rights legislation, nobody can become "stateless". It is a bit of a oxymoron, but the Irish Times use the term when refering to non-Irish citizens.

    How can you be a non national and a citizen? Bit of a paradox that.:confused:


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    #118
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PaulieD wrote: »
    I would presume that they wouldnt get a polling card in the first place!

    Fair point but considering the mess that the whole system is, it needs a root and branch review.

    The whole system needs cleaning up and this was pointed out ages ago by the Tribune, before the last GE.

    8/9,000 Votes decided Divorce.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #119
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I object to the thread title when we know the whole register is a joke.

    This was a problem long before 2004.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #120
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    PaulieD wrote: »
    How can you be a non national and a citizen? Bit of a paradox that.:confused:
    You should also be aware that acquiring Irish citizenship does not automatically void the obligations of another citizenship or nationality (for example, the requirement to complete military service).

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/your_right_to_irish_citizenship

    Under law, nationality and citizenship can be separated.


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    #121
    MikeC101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭MikeC101


    PaulieD wrote: »
    Non national literally means a stateless person, and under Human Rights legislation, nobody can become "stateless". It is a bit of a oxymoron, but the Irish Times use the term when refering to non-Irish citizens.

    How can you be a non national and a citizen? Bit of a paradox that.:confused:

    So let me get this straight, based on your claims of seeing non nationals vote with your own two eyes.

    You think that you can tell, from an accent, that someone is not an Irish citizen, be it through marriage or having had refugee status for long enough?

    Specifically, you can tell, just from hearing a few words, whether someone (and you defined them all as "Slavic" previously) might have been a refugee from the Balkans or if they're an Albanian with German citizenship, or any of the multitudes of combinations that exist?


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