Why are intelligent, university-educated, middle class Irish people not in revolt?

honesty101

We need to maintain a constant presence outside the Dail while they are in session. As you said the Unions stand up for their people, who stands up for us? We have to start somewhere. E-mail me at namagate@gmail.com

Regards,

ninty9er

It's simple:

There are over 1.8 million people still working in this country, they have better things to do, many of them have families and clients to entertain on their weekends and are too busy enjoying themselves and just getting on as best they can when they have some spare time to bother with "protest".

Shouting people down is a perfect way to piss them off, not to get them to give you what you want.

"Educated" people will also for the most part realise that no matter what you do, as long as the system keeps its head above the water, we'll be fine and will protest come election time.

Supercell

"Berties Team"

Thats it in a ****ing nutshell, the retarded electorate would vote that cnut (i won it on the horses ...aka the money was resting in my account) in again.
I'm leaving.

axer

Supercell wrote: »

"Berties Team"

Thats it in a ****ing nutshell, the retarded electorate would vote that cnut (i won it in the horses ...aka the money was resting in my account) in again.
I'm leaving.

MysticalRain

Face it, we are a nation of subservient sheep. There should have been a revolution a long time ago. There probably won't be anytime soon. But at least we can get satisfaction from voting against Fianna Fail for the next 20 years.

anonymous_joe

MysticalRain wrote: »

Face it, we are a nation of subservient sheep. There should have been a revolution a long time ago. There probably won't be anytime soon. But at least we can get satisfaction from voting against Fianna Fail for the next 20 years.

My arse we are.

It's just that most people are a bit lazy.

thebman

Voting no to Lisbon may not get the current government out and is certainly the wrong thing to do IMO.

I think the best bet to get the get government out is the green parties conference coming up TBH.

Anything else is just abusing another event to try to get your way which is as bad as FF.

optocynic

Omnipresence wrote: »

I think it's because we don't have a voice or a lobby group representing us - which is rather socking - every other majority and minority group have some organisation fighting thier corner - except us ... by 'us' I mean the PAYE worker.....

vitners, farmers, business, civil servants, teachers, nurses, unions etc.. all have powerful voices - where is ours ??? - and how do we go about setting up one

It would certainly be the most powerful voice in ireland - if it just spoke up !!


.... so how do we do it ...

Please don't say union!
A union boss representing us with "The Most".. would be even more hypocritical than the berks speaking for SIPTU..

FTA69

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours. I'm currently in a humanities course and half of my classmates are ignorant as sh*t about most things, they're far from being moulded into some sort of a left wing cadre by the bloody Arts department.

optocynic

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours. I'm currently in a humanities course and half of my classmates are ignorant as sh*t about most things, they're far from being moulded into some sort of a left wing cadre by the bloody Arts department.

Humanities course?
I thought you supported the RIRA?

Talk of a revolt is a bit nonsensical. Let's get a little bit real, there will be no hailing cobblestones and blood on the streets. What will happen is a swing from FF to FG. That's it...though if the OP takes that as a revolt you can be prepared for a big one!

I would accept a purge of the likes of Coughlan and O'Donoghue. If that doesn't happen I'll be pissed off, but that's a long way from storming the Dail. It won't happen in the UK, it won't happen here, it didn't happen when times were really bad and our parents walked 10 miles barefoot to get abused by the local priest and it aint gonna happen now 'cos someone screws the expenses and the dole queues are at their longest for 10 years.

asdasd

The obvious party to go after is the Greens. However, they are probably afraid that they will be decimated in any election so they are stuck.

I would welcome a FG-Labour coalition at this point. Theres need be more discussion about NAMA.

( Gay Byrne would use the Late Late Show - The LLS was never just an entertainment show).

Overheal

IRLConor wrote: »

I'm university-educated, probably best described as middle class (although I reject describing people as being "X class" as an outdated notion) and I'll leave it up to ye to decide whether I'm intelligent or not.

Why am I not in revolt? A couple of reasons:

1. It would cost me dearly. Revolt and instability in Ireland will delay our economic recovery. No-one wants to invest in an unstable state. Physical protest will waste a ton of money in policing and (if it takes a violent turn) clean-up/insurance/repair. In addition, long term unrest is as likely to result in draconian laws infringing on our civil liberties as it is to change the government.
2. It would be ineffectual. I honestly believe that the current politicians in government are well aware that they are not liked and that there's a very good chance that a majority want them out. Telling them something they already know is a waste of my time, I have better things to be doing than that.
3. It would be hijacked. The far right, the far left and all the other crazies from the dusty corners of the political spectrum would benefit (and are benefiting) from any upheavals. If there's one thing I fear more than Irish politicians, it's Irish politicians with dodgy politics!

So, how do I think we can force an election? Do you have any of the following representing you in your constituency?

• FF backbenchers (preferably ones which were the second or third FF seat)
• Green Party TDs
• Independent/former PD who supports the government.

If so, talk to them and make it clear to them that their political career depends on them acting against the government at the earliest possible opportunity. Politics in Ireland is very local, use it if you can.

I don't think voting against Lisbon will bring down the government, it didn't do it the last time, why would it do it this time? Cast your vote based on the Treaty itself, long term that's the most sensible option.

You make fair points but your first one irks me. How many foreign investors do you think flocked to the US when the Golden Parachutes hit the fan? Similarly these Golden Handshakes of yours are going to be apparent to anyone ready to invest millions of dollars in your economy. Do you think the cost of civil demonstration is really going to be higher than FAS's travel budget?

Its a lot harder for these bastards to sleep at night if they have to wade through a picket line on the way to their leather thrones.

OldJay

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours

Lets start with some of the more famous, eh?
Patrick Pearse - Barrister (ex UCD, RUI and Kings Inns)
Robert Emmet - Trinity College alumni
deValera - Studied in RUI and then Trinity. Teacher in Blackrock College.
Wolfe Tone - Barrister (Trinity and King's Inns)

:rolleyes:

FTA69

optocynic wrote: »

Humanities course?
I thought you supported the RIRA?

I don't actually, but obviously the facts of the matter won't prevent you from talking through your hole.

optocynic

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't actually, but obviously the facts of the matter won't prevent you from talking through your hole.

Huh?.. OK! You did appear to be leaping to their defence in another thread. regarding Cork...

IRLConor

Overheal wrote: »

You make fair points but your first one irks me. How many foreign investors do you think flocked to the US when the Golden Parachutes hit the fan?

It's not just foreign investment though. I'd be wary of starting a business here if I thought there was a chance of sustained unrest.

The level of corruption in Irish politics at the moment would also be a negative factor. It certainly was a factor when considering tendering for some government contracts back when I had my own company.

Clean, stable government == good for business.

HashSlinging

I like this idea.

thebman

Overheal wrote: »

You make fair points but your first one irks me. How many foreign investors do you think flocked to the US when the Golden Parachutes hit the fan? Similarly these Golden Handshakes of yours are going to be apparent to anyone ready to invest millions of dollars in your economy. Do you think the cost of civil demonstration is really going to be higher than FAS's travel budget?

Its a lot harder for these bastards to sleep at night if they have to wade through a picket line on the way to their leather thrones.

In fairness, I think street protests send the message of political instability which will scare away potential investors in the Irish economy.

Mal-Adjusted

Deleted User wrote: »

Talk of a revolt is a bit nonsensical. Let's get a little bit real, there will be no hailing cobblestones and blood on the streets. What will happen is a swing from FF to FG. That's it...though if the OP takes that as a revolt you can be prepared for a big one!

in that case, the first things to go have to be party politics and personal loyalty to a party regardless.

shur that's a FF family...

mind what you say, you're in a FG town!...

i know plenty of fellas like this. the party leader could shoot their dog and rape their daughter, and they'd still vote for them over & over again. that thinking has no place in a modern state and has to go the way of the dinosaurs. Just what is so difficult about hiring the best person for the job, regardless of party?

there's also the thick as sh1te bogger attitude of "that other crowd could be ten times worse!" true, they could (though i'd take a government composed of Woody-Woodpecker, Spongebob & Bill O' Riley before our current ensamble cast of clowns) also be far, far better!

Overheal

thebman wrote: »

In fairness, I think street protests send the message of political instability which will scare away potential investors in the Irish economy.

I think a short period of instability that leads to a sustained period of growth is worth it in the end, vs. a sustained period of rampant corruption.

thebman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

there's also the thick as sh1te bogger attitude of "that other crowd could be ten times worse!" true, they could (though i'd take a government composed of Woody-Woodpecker, Spongebob & Bill O' Riley before our current ensamble cast of clowns) also be far, far better!

Sorry that statement is just biased and shows how ignorant you are. That attitude is prevalent with many people from all over the country from countless different backgrounds in Cities, countryside, everywhere.

Cope on to yourself.

Overheal wrote: »

I think a short period of instability that leads to a sustained period of growth is worth it in the end, vs. a sustained period of rampant corruption.

Considering we should be able to get rid of corruption using our political process I don't see the point. We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

Mal-Adjusted

thebman wrote: »

Sorry that statement is just biased and shows how ignorant you are. That attitude is prevalent with many people from all over the country from countless different backgrounds in Cities, countryside, everywhere.

Cope on to yourself.

biased my arse. that kind of political loyalty is way more prevalent in the countryside where it's generally smaller more localised communities. yes, it's present in the cities as well, but that doesn't make what i said wrong.

Overheal

thebman wrote: »

Considering we should be able to get rid of corruption using our political process I don't see the point. We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

That being the case, if there is an election that close where the Voter gets to take part, I would go forward and prepare a publication. Write an editorial for your local paper, etc. and lay down the lies in the current ruling party point-for-point. Do what needs doing to get the word out to as many voters as you can. Pen or Picket. I say explore All avenues if you have a deadline coming up That close.

Mal-Adjusted

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

mind what you say, you're in a FG town!...

For a second I thought you knew where I lived!

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i know plenty of fellas like this. the party leader could shoot their dog and rape their daughter, and they'd still vote for them over & over again. that thinking has no place in a modern state and has to go the way of the dinosaurs. Just what is so difficult about hiring the best person for the job, regardless of party?

And there are plenty that could watch FF bring peace to the North and perceived prosperity and maximum employment, but would never have voted for them because they despised them since the womb. Know plenty of fellas like this. The sort who think voting against FF every time makes them more intelligent.

Not sure about the reference to 'modern states'. Lots of 'modern states' have political parties with members. The US, Germany, France...in fact I'm trying to think of the 'modern state' where every representative runs as an individual and not part of a party machine and I'm failing. Name a 'modern state' please.

asdasd

Is this the kind of action the OP wants?

And there are plenty that could watch FF bring peace to the North and perceived prosperity and maximum employment, but would never have voted for them because they despised them since the womb

Yep. There is a class, and possibly a regional issue to that as well ( A Quasi racist one at that - the term "bogger" is supremicist). I vote around parties, and wont vote for FF again. But if some Dublin you starts talking about Boggers and FF, I get a bit more sympathetic to them.

The real problem with FF, in terms of corruption, by the way was the Dublin members.

back to the boom. The real cause of the crash is all the people who bought houses. No government could have stopped people, as any attempt to rail in the mortgages, or lending, would have caused a crash on the attempt. That is, if FF tried to stop 100% mortgages in 2003 it would have caused a less severe recession then, and the anti-FFs now would be out in force then. Arguing counter factual history ( if we didnt do this in 2003 it would lead to a bigger recession in 2006) would not work with most people.

Read this site for goddsakes. There were deniers of a bust up until this time last year.

asdasd

To reiterate. Stop blaming FF. If You bought a house it is your fault. Not only did you cause your own ruin, you were responsible for the bust.

fcussen

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours. I'm currently in a humanities course and half of my classmates are ignorant as sh*t about most things, they're far from being moulded into some sort of a left wing cadre by the bloody Arts department.

More or less every major revolution and social upheaval in modern history in every nation across the world (incl. Ireland) has been led by people from the more educated strata of society.

I agree with the second sentence tho; when I hear paranoid right-wingers talking about impressionable students having their heads filled with militant propaganda by leftie professors, I have a really hard time finding the people they're referring to in real life.

thebman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

biased my arse. that kind of political loyalty is way more prevalent in the countryside where it's generally smaller more localised communities. yes, it's present in the cities as well, but that doesn't make what i said wrong.

I don't think it is, please provide evidence since your so sure. How many times have you actually been down the country and talked to these communities to find out that this is their attitude or are you just going on stereotypes?

dvpower

thebman wrote: »

We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

If we have an election before Christmas, we will vote for the parties that promise not to make any cuts or raise taxes (or more accurately, we will vote for the parties that promise to make cuts on others, and raise taxes on others).

Very few people will tell politicians on the doorsteps to cause us pain to balance the books.