National Postcodes to be introduced

ukoda

Sam Russell wrote: »

Those who want a secure revenue stream. I'll leave it as an exercise for you to work out who that is.

Can you clarify what the situation is with the income that will be generated from eircode?

Can you clarify that once the maintenance costs are removed that any profits belong to capita?

Can you clarify if capita are on a fixed price contract to operate the code for a set period of time

Can you clarify that any revenue generated belongs to capita and not the state?

Or are you basing all that on pure assumption?

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

Can you clarify what the situation is with the income that will be generated from eircode?

Can you clarify that once the maintenance costs are removed that any profits belong to capita?

Can you clarify if capita are on a fixed price contract to operate the code for a set period of time

Can you clarify that any revenue generated belongs to capita and not the state?

Or are you basing all that on pure assumption?

Put up or shut up ukoda - or are you arguing on the basis of pure assumption too?

After all, you're the one boasting about your hotline to the European marketing director for Eircode

Kalyke

This is one narky thread.... but informative!

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

Put up or shut up ukoda - or are you arguing on the basis of pure assumption too?

After all, you're the one boasting about your hotline to the European marketing director for Eircode

I genuinely want to know what the arrangement is? Can you tell me?

And I said that I was in touch with the marketing director of A SAT NAV company. Not eircode. Read stuff before you inaccurately quote me.

ukoda

Can anyone tell me who owns the revenue that eircode generates?

antoinolachtnai

The licensee. Who else?

ukoda

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The licensee. Who else?

Eircode are licenced to operate the code on contract, I was aware that they will be paid to do this for a period of ten years, operating the code does not necessarily mean that they own the revenue, it could be owned by the state.

I don't know, im asking if anyone can confirm this or is it an assumption?

oscarBravo

There will be a Prime Time segment on eircodes tonight.

Sam Russell

ukoda wrote: »

Eircode are licenced to operate the code on contract, I was aware that they will be paid to do this for a period of ten years, operating the code does not necessarily mean that they own the revenue, it could be owned by the state.

I don't know, im asking if anyone can confirm this or is it an assumption?

I would imagine (therefore I do not know because it is secret) it will be like a PPP contact where the state takes the risk and the private part gets to keep the profit. Having read some of the PPP contracts, the state agrees to guaranty the revenue if the takings are lower than an expexted certain limit. The private partner is not going to lose out, but the state will.

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

No, An Post have not adapted their systems to use it. They've simply added an additional field for it to the GeoDirectory, but if you try to send a letter with only an eircode on it, it'll be kicked out of the system, and eventually someone might look up the eircode, scribble the real address on the envelop, and throw it back into the system (because they're pretty nice peple at An Post).

Aparently, they'll do the same if you put just a LOC8 code on an envelope.

You're making a habit of being wrong and giving misinformation on this thread, below is what An Post has said about ericode

"Mr. Liam O'Sullivan:
I am the mails operations director of An Post.
I and my team are responsible for the collection and delivery of all mail in the State and for all inbound mail from all other postal operators worldwide. An Post, as the national postal services provider, collects, sorts and delivers more than 600 million letters and parcels annually - 2.5 million to 3 million letters and parcels per day. An Post fully supports the introduction of the new eircode system and when it is launched we will use the code in our automated sortation systems and manual systems throughout the network.
The postcode design chosen by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources through the competitive tendering process, on which Capita is doing the fine-tuning, developing and deployment, works for An Post. It works with our systems and we intend to fully utilise it.
In 2012 we completed a major multi-year capital investment programme, replacing and upgrading all our automated sorting machines and all of the technology behind that. We were well aware that a vital piece of national infrastructure was being rolled out and when specifying that equipment we had it designed in order that it could and would cater for the arrival of postcodes, now called Eircodes, in Ireland.
As the national service provider, we have been working closely with the Department throughout the years on this project. Since Capita was awarded the contract, we have worked closely with it. As Ms Patricia Cronin said, we will be carrying out the task of notifying everybody in the country, via mail next year, of what their Eircode is.
An Post has a detailed implementation plan for integrating the new codes into our mail operation, manual and automated. Execution of that plan is well advanced at this stage. Our target is to be ready by May 2015 in order that all our people and manual systems are ready to start to receive mail into our systems with the eircode carried on it and we are currently on track to meet that deadline."

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

I genuinely want to know what the arrangement is? Can you tell me?

And I said that I was in touch with the marketing director of A SAT NAV company. Not eircode. Read stuff before you inaccurately quote me.

Hands up - I goofed. Gabh mo leithscéal!

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

Hands up - I goofed. Gabh mo leithscéal!

apology accepted, you also goofed up on what you said about An Post, do you want to apologise for that too? see my previous post.

Bayberry

Bayberry wrote: »

if you try to send a letter with only an eircode on it, it'll be kicked out of the system, and eventually someone might look up the eircode, scribble the real address on the envelop, and throw it back into the system (because they're pretty nice peple at An Post).

ukoda wrote: »

"Mr. Liam O'Sullivan:
I am the mails operations director of An Post.
... when it is launched we will use the code in our automated sortation systems and manual systems throughout the network.
....
An Post has a detailed implementation plan for integrating the new codes into our mail operation, manual and automated. Execution of that plan is well advanced at this stage. Our target is to be ready by May 2015 in order that all our people and manual systems are ready to start to receive mail into our systems with the eircode carried on it and we are currently on track to meet that deadline."

That doesn't actually contradict what I said - maybe their new equipment will automate the process of writing the human readable version of the address on the envelope, instead of doing it by hand, maybe it won't, but unless/until we being to see some of this stuff in the wild, your interpretation of Mr O'Sullivans statement is no more reasonable than mine.

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

That doesn't actually contradict what I said - maybe their new equipment will automate the process of writing the human readable version of the address on the envelope, instead of doing it by hand, maybe it won't, but unless/until we being to see some of this stuff in the wild, your interpretation of Mr O'Sullivans statement is no more reasonable than mine.

You said they done nothing except add it as a field to their geo directory. The man in charge of An Posts operations says otherwise. There's no interpretation. You were wrong and are you trying to hide it by cutting out the first lines when you quoted yourself.

oscarBravo

oscarBravo wrote: »

There will be a Prime Time segment on eircodes tonight.

Well, that was shoddily done.

larchill

Just saw the Prime Time piece on eircodes - nothing new! Seems we are launching next month!

ukoda

oscarBravo wrote: »

Well, that was shoddily done.

That was awful piece of reporting, they had the wrong name up on screen, and a holding screen for content they obviously forgot to edit in, very shoddy piece

In regards to what was said, nothing new really, majority of who they spoke to seem to support it:

For:
An Post
Gardai
Dublin Fire Bridgade
Night line
National Ambulance Service

Against:
Loc8
FTAI

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

ukoda

yuloni wrote: »

I thought it was balanced enough but nothing discussed that we haven't already discussed here

I did giggle a little at the Capita eircode guy choking on 1. when asked about finding places other than letterboxes and 2. how would anyone know what Eircode they're near when calling the emergency services

But he's point was right. A postcode is not the best thing to rely on when calling emergency services when out and about. There's other better ways of doing that

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

You said they done nothing except add it as a field to their geo directory. The man in charge of An Posts operations says otherwise. There's no interpretation. You were wrong.

The "detailed implementation plan for integrating the new codes into our mail operation" could be "We will completely ignore every occurrence of eircode in the system", and Mr O'Sullivan wouldn't actually be a liar. Or maybe the detailed implementation plan is exactly what I said it will be - convert any "naked" eircodes into real addresses, using the existing procedures. No contradiction there between his "detailed implementation plan for integrating the new codes into our mail operation" and my statment.

All envelopes are OCRed anyway, so interpreting the eircode field and printing the correct postal address automatically, rather than manually isn't much of an adaption, though if you want to be nitpicky about it, I'll give you that.

So where are these other big adaptations that you think An Post is implementing? They could compare every eircode to the OCRed address and kick out any envelopes where there's a conflict, but what would be the point? In most cases the conflct will occur because of a mistake in the eircode, which will mean that the eircode itself is invalid, and if it's a valid eircode that points to a completely different location than the actual address, then it's much more likely that the actual address is correct. That just leaves the situation where someone writes 82 insted of 28 for the number, but in a large number of such cases, the numbers don't go up to 82, so that's already caught, but yes, 12 for 21 would be corrected.

Is that what you think I underplayed in my comment? Big Yip!

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

The "detailed implementation plan for integrating the new codes into our mail operation" could be "We will completely ignore every occurrence of eircode in the system", and Mr O'Sullivan wouldn't actually be a liar. Or maybe the detailed implementation plan is exactly what I said it will be - convert any "naked" eircodes into read addresses, using the existing procedures. No contradiction there between his "detailed implementation plan for integrating the new codes into our mail operation" and my statment.

All envelopes are OCRed anyway, so interpreting the eircode field and printing the correct postal address automatically, rather than isn't much of an adaption, though if you want to be nitpicky about it, I'll give you that.

So where are these other big adaptations that you think An Post is implementing? They could compare every eircode to the OCRed address and kick out any envelopes where there's a conflict, but what would be the point? In most cases the conflct will occur because of a mistake in the eircode, which will mean that the eircode itself is invalid, and if it's a valid eircode that points to a completely different location than the actual address, then it's much more likely that the actual address is correct. That just leaves the situation where someone writes 82 insted of 28 for the number, but in a large number of such cases, the numbers don't go up to 82, so that's already caught, but yes, 12 for 21 would be corrected.

Is that what you think I underplayed in my comment? Big Yip!

No I think you were ignorant of what An Post had actually done and you made an incorrect claim

Bayberry

ukoda wrote: »

No I think you were ignorant of what An Post had actually done and you made an incorrect claim

But I'm still ignorant of what An Post has actually done.

And so are you.

oscarBravo

yuloni wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Actually, it's the dispatchers who direct the ambulances to the scene. I've had a number of conversations with a friend who's an ambulance dispatcher, and anything that cuts down on the obscene amount of time ambulance drivers spend driving around trying to find houses will be a welcome development.

ukoda

Bayberry wrote: »

But I'm still ignorant of what An Post has actually done.

And so are you.

I didn't realised An Post were to release to me their entire operations plans.

ukoda

ukoda wrote: »

But he's point was right. A postcode is not the best thing to rely on when calling emergency services when out and about. There's other better ways of doing that

Unless the emergency is in someone's home, a postcode will seldom be used in this situation, if anything it may cause confusion.

a65b2cd

ukoda wrote: »

That was awful piece of reporting

I think it was well-balanced but may have left the public a bit baffled! A lot of organisations got mentioned and the only issue not raised was the data protection measures currently being taken. Nightline summed it up for me:

139 high-level postcode sectoral areas in Ireland gives enough granularity, it is better than what we have because now we can only sort 26 ways based on county so it is a good system and now it is about implementation

ukoda

a65b2cd wrote: »

I think it was well-balanced but may have left the public a bit baffled! A lot of organisations got mentioned and the only issue not raised was the data protection measures currently being taken. Nightline summed it up for me:

139 high-level postcode sectoral areas in Ireland gives enough granularity, it is better than what we have because now we can only sort 26 ways based on county so it is a good system and now it is about implementation

I meant the delivery not the content, it was badly edited

plodder

ukoda wrote: »

apology accepted, you also goofed up on what you said about An Post, do you want to apologise for that too? see my previous post.

An Post are being paid a shed load of money to provide access to the database that Eircode is built from and to "support" Eircode. That doesn't mean they are actually using it in any significant way.

They already have OCR technology to read addresses and link them via the Geodirectory to the actual location. They really don't need Eircodes. The whole unique addressing thing that Eircode is bringing actually negates one of the advantages that An Post has, which is the local knowledge that disambiguates ambiguous addresses. So, An Post are putting a brave face on it and making the best of it. But, that doesn't mean they are getting any benefit from it, other than the cash.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

ukoda

plodder wrote: »

They already have OCR technology to read addresses and link them via the Geodirectory to the actual location.

Not for 35% of the country they can't. But with ericode they can.