N7 - Newlands Cross upgrade

robert muldoon

jack presley wrote: »

Varadkar's Dublin West. Newland's Cross isn't in the Dublin West constituency is it?

It's not really important, whether it is or isn't but Varaker did announce it

jack presley

robert muldoon wrote: »

It's not really important, whether it is or isn't but Varaker did announce it

He's a politician and two things politicians do are (1) not follow through on promises they made and (2) change their mind and flip flop on things they said

robert muldoon

jack presley wrote: »

He's a politician and two things politicians do are (1) not follow through on promises they made and (2) change their mind and flip flop on things they said

The one thing they don't like is when the media get hold of it and start asking questions - am working on it

spacetweek

robert muldoon wrote: »

What the hell is going on with this project?
This was announced last December for commencement in Q4 of 2013

It was to start June 1st 2012 originally. I think you meant "completion in Q4 of 2013".

mydiscworld

Fred Barry, CEO of NRA

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/Debates%20Authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/committeetakes/TRJ2012111400007?opendocument

On Newlands Cross and the Arklow-Rathnew section of the N11, as many members will be aware, the National Roads Authority set out to upgrade Newlands Cross some years ago under a design and build contract. We were about to submit a call for tenders when the first of many funding cuts was announced and we were unable to proceed with the project on that basis. We have since tendered the project as a public-private partnership. This is the only means of having the work done as the NRA does not have sufficient funds to complete the project. Public private partnerships worked very well until a couple of years ago in the sense that it was possible to raise funding and bring the relevant projects to fruition. However, as funding for the State became more difficult, so too did funding for public-private partnerships. Many obstacles and difficulties have arisen and while I do not propose to discuss them in detail, we are in the last stages of the competition. Most of the issues that arose in respect of the European Investment Bank and the availability of funding from the National Pensions Reserve Fund to underpin some payment streams have been resolved. We are now in what is known as the financial close period on the public-private partnership. The documents are being finalised and exchanged between the PPP company and its lenders and subcontractors. This phase will probably run for another two or three months and we are highly optimistic at this stage that the contract will be signed during the first quarter of next year.

Of some relevance to this matter was the signing in the past week of a public-private partnership agreement for a schools bundle. This is relevant to our arrangements for Newlands Cross because the same PPP company and lenders are involved. In this case, however, it is the NRA rather than the Department of Education and Skills that is involved on the State side. I am confident the Newlands Cross project will also be brought to closure in the near future.

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spacetweek

Up to another 4 months' delay. Sigh.

smokie72

Received this through my letterbox today. Maybe at last we should see the start of the Newlands Cross Upgrade.

tomflynn

There has been so much speculation about this: contract closure date is Feb 7th according to PFI : http://www.pfie.com/emea/western-europe/ireland/

And suggested start data on CISIreland (updated yesterday) is not till 1st July http://www.cisireland.com/ProjectDescription.aspx?id=985

Who knows? We'll just have to wait and see...hopefully Deputy Keating (local area brochure attached to Smokie72 post above) has the most accurate information.

antoobrien

smokie72 wrote: »

Received this through my letterbox today. Maybe at last we should see the start of the Newlands Cross Upgrade.

Is there anyone left on good terms with the NRA that could email them to confirm this?

robert muldoon

antoobrien wrote: »

Is there anyone left on good terms with the NRA that could email them to confirm this?

Sorry, but what was left thru your letter box today?

antoobrien

robert muldoon wrote: »

Sorry, but what was left thru your letter box today?

Through smokie72's letterbox yesterday.

spacetweek

antoobrien wrote: »

Is there anyone left on good terms with the NRA that could email them to confirm this?

Well I have yet to make an enemy of them :cool:

BuzzFish

From NRA:

Dear Buzzfish

I refer to your email of 24 January 2013 regarding the above.

It is intended to sign the N11 PPP Contract in March 2013 with construction commencing at Newlands Cross shortly thereafter in April/May.

Kind regards
xxxxxx
Programme & Regulatory Unit

robert muldoon

BuzzFish wrote: »

From NRA:

Dear Buzzfish

I refer to your email of 24 January 2013 regarding the above.

It is intended to sign the N11 PPP Contract in March 2013 with construction commencing at Newlands Cross shortly thereafter in April/May.

Kind regards
xxxxxx
Programme & Regulatory Unit

Is the N11 project still joined to the Newlands X project?

Chris_5339762

Yesm AFAIK. Now, whether its M11Gap/Newlands or M11Gap/Newlands + Gorey Service area as was originally proposed, thats another question!

spacetweek

robert muldoon wrote: »

Is the N11 project still joined to the Newlands X project?

Yep

HydeRoad

Apologies if there is a more appropriate thread to place this, but I imagine it would be relevant to the impending Newlands X works. It pertains to the revised N7 northbound / M50 junction.

The centre lane northbound has been redesignated for M50S as well as citybound. The left lane becomes the M50N lane.

This makes sense in terms of the greater volume of traffic bound for the M50. However the execution of it is simply awful. Basically, they have retained the alignment of the N7 traffic lanes all the way to the junction, and simply added in a hasty 'twitch' from the centre lane to the M50S lanes at the last minute, by painting in some angled white lines.

This is a disaster, and must go against every concept of good and safe road design. I drive buses on this road almost daily, and on every single occasion, I am being sideswiped by cars who fail to heed the new road markings. The result is that, as a safe driver, there is no safe lane for me to take for my chosen M50S route. If I take the old left lane alignment, I am in the wrong lane, and must cut up correctly positioned traffic to head southbound. If I take the marked centre lane, I have cars undertaking me and almost hitting me side on, as they barge from the left lane, in a straight line towards M50S.

This road alignment, I hope, is a temporary arrangement until the Newlands X works are finished. However, eighteen months to two years is too long a time frame for a road alignment which is simply undriveable, and must surely lead to regular accidents, and all the ensuing delay and frustration in what must be one of the most over-congested corridors in the country.

Please tell me others are complaining too, and that it will be revisited as soon as possible, with a view to safety and proper road design practice.

antoobrien

HydeRoad wrote: »

Apologies if there is a more appropriate thread to place this, but I imagine it would be relevant to the impending Newlands X works. It pertains to the revised N7 northbound / M50 junction.

It's more appropriate for the M50 or N/M7 General discussion threads. I think it got a mentionon the M50 thread before christmas.

Geogregor

How about decoupling Newlands Cross from the M11 project? Surely at the moment Newlands Cross is one of the most needed upgrades in Ireland. If there are continuing struggles with the PPP program then NRA should upgrade the Newlands on its own.
This one flyover can't be that expensive. They recently started Ballaghaderreen bypass so there clearly was some money in the pot. For me it is strange allocation of the resources.

Chris_5339762

Newlands is one of the most needed, but THE most needed is the M11 gap. With Newlands, its just a bottleneck, with the M11 gap its a bottleneck plus an atrotious safety record.

Geogregor

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Newlands is one of the most needed, but THE most needed is the M11 gap. With Newlands, its just a bottleneck, with the M11 gap its a bottleneck plus an atrotious safety record.

Probably, I never drove that stretch.
But Newlands it just an one overpass. Easy and relatively cheap fix, for sure it should be cheaper than the overpasses on the Cork ring road.
M11 gap on the other hand is a much larger project. I have to say I never understood why authorities joined the two. With all the issues with the PPP they should have go for it on its own.
I can't belive that for example N5 Ballaghaderreen Bypass got started but Newlands not. Where is the logic in spending money that way? Surely cost/benefit ratio for Newlands would be much better.

jd

Geogregor wrote: »

Easy and relatively cheap fix, for sure it should be cheaper than the overpasses on the Cork ring road.
M11 gap on the other hand is a much larger project. .

I don't think it's as easy/cheap as you think. It'll take 21 months and is an online upgrade. In many ways the M11 gap is more straightforward.

Geogregor

jd wrote: »

I don't think it's as easy/cheap as you think. It'll take 21 months and is an online upgrade. In many ways the M11 gap is more straightforward.

Ok, it's not the easiest, there are some engineering challenges, but it is still going to be way cheaper than M11 gap which requires quite a few km of motorway to be build from scratch.

Chris_5339762

Geogregor wrote: »

I have to say I never understood why authorities joined the two. With all the issues with the PPP they should have go for it on its own.

In hindsight yes. When the economy was starting to falter and they couldn't afford new projects anymore the sensible idea was to create (tried and tested) PPP projects by bundling together small-ish stuff. Then the main crash started and all of a sudden they can't get funding off the banks for the PPPs.

Saying Newlands should have been done before Cork SRR is true, but Newlands should have been done years ago. It should have been part of the interurbans (M6/7/8/9 builds) AT LEAST, or more sensibly as part of the Naas Road upgrades.

Geogregor

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

In hindsight yes. When the economy was starting to falter and they couldn't afford new projects anymore the sensible idea was to create (tried and tested) PPP projects by bundling together small-ish stuff. Then the main crash started and all of a sudden they can't get funding off the banks for the PPPs.

Saying Newlands should have been done before Cork SRR is true, but Newlands should have been done years ago. It should have been part of the interurbans (M6/7/8/9 builds) AT LEAST, or more sensibly as part of the Naas Road upgrades.

So, now the question is what happens next. If problems with the PPP continue then NRA should go ahead with the Newlands on its own. It should be a priority.

How difficult would it be to decouple it from the M11 and tender separately?

BuzzFish

Was any useful information provided at the meeting last night? Did anyone on here go?

Chris_5339762

Geogregor wrote: »

So, now the question is what happens next. If problems with the PPP continue then NRA should go ahead with the Newlands on its own. It should be a priority.

How difficult would it be to decouple it from the M11 and tender separately?

I don't know. Since its a PPP project and AFAIK has a contractor selected (monetary issues notwithstanding), they might actually be in legal trouble if they tried to decouple it. I could be totally wrong about that though.

Aquarius34

The N7 is a nightmare on fridays! Newlands cross needs to grouped with the Naas bypass widening. Travelling times won't make a pile of difference until both schemes are done.

NEDDURC

Well it wouldn't make sense to group it with anything else now when TDs are suggesting its a few weeks away from starting. I'd love to know if there was anything more concrete (!) said at the meeting last night.

I personally think the widening may not be such an issue if Newlands was upgraded. It is what creates the bottleneck in the evenings which then manifests into a bottleneck where the 3 becomes 2 in Naas. If removed the traffic in theory should flow better.

As I work quiet close to Newlands I'm not looking forward to the build phase. Hopefully, they come up with some good solutions to keep the thing moving until complete.

antoobrien

NEDDURC wrote: »

As I work quiet close to Newlands I'm not looking forward to the build phase. Hopefully, they come up with some good solutions to keep the thing moving until complete.

I wouldn't hold my breath, look forward to what happened at Lucan happening there.