N7 - Newlands Cross upgrade

antoobrien

BluntGuy wrote: »

Curious. Anyone we can contact to find out how this deal was allegedly put together?

The DoT Press office details are at the bottom of the press release (not included in the quoted text).

Sponge Bob

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/notorious-bottleneck-to-go-in-euro100m-road-plans-2969485.html

Funding of more than €100m is being provided by the European Investment Bank (EIB) and Bank of Ireland, in the first such arrangement for road projects for a number of years.

The EIB is in for 'up to €75m so Bank of Ireland are in for OVER €25m . I'd say the deal has some super seniority clause in favour of BoI and is something to do with the NTMA not the Dept of Transport.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/notorious-bottleneck-to-go-in-euro100m-road-plans-2969485.html



The EIB is in for 'up to €75m so Bank of Ireland are in for OVER €25m . I'd say the deal has some super seniority clause in favour of BoI and is something to do with the NTMA not the Dept of Transport.

I was wondering when the government would figure out that they can "leverage" the banks for some of this.

Everyone in the NX/N11 areas should thank the BOI mortgage holders for funding this project.

marmurr1916

Excellent, and announced just in time for Christmas!

Fingers crossed that the M17/M18 and M20 can go ahead as PPPs soon enough.

Wild Bill

antoobrien wrote: »

Everyone in the NX/N11 areas should thank the BOI mortgage holders for funding this project.

BuzzFish

Had a look through the planning doc as I was wondering why and overpass and not underpass. I had thought the "obvious" way to go was to drop the N7 below the cross but after reading the below it does seem like the overpass is the better option....

Thought you guys might be interested....

3.7.3 Construction Duration
It is estimated that the construction of the Overpass could take up to 2 years.
However, the Underpass Option could take up to 3 years to construct as it would involve
removing a significant quantity of rock to allow the mainline N7 to be placed under the
Fonthill/Belgard Road (R113)

3.7.4 Construction Traffic
It is estimated that at its busiest there will be approximately 20 HGV vehicles per hour
arriving at the site (worst case scenario) for the overpass scheme. The underpass will generate
a greater number of additional movements resulting from the excavation of the rock and the
piling activities.


OPTION OVERPASS UNDERPASS
Total Construction Cost incl. VAT and PVC
€53,064,067 OVERPASS
€78,759,56 UNDERPASS


3.15 Conclusions and Recommendations
In this report we considered two proposed options i.e. Underpass and Overpass, in the context
of their respective construction and operational impacts. A summary of the impacts is
presented in the Options Matrix (See Figures 3.11a – 3.11c).
In summary however, our examination of both options revealed the following issues.
Firstly, there are significant construction issues with the Underpass Option when compared
with the Overpass Option. To construct the Underpass, approximately 6 metres of rock would
need to be excavated, which given the location of the junction, would be a time consuming
and onerous task. As a result of this issue construction of the underpass could take
approximately 1 year longer. This increased duration in turn has a number of knock on effects
with regard to traffic disruption, severance, noise and dust. On a national road of such
importance these issues equate to significant impacts.
Conversely, the Overpass Option has greater operational impacts. Noise levels will increase
slightly at approximately 5 No. receptors. However, this impact can be mitigated back to at
least existing levels. There will also be an increased visual impact with the overpass option
particularly at a number of residences along the northern boundary east of the junction, at
Bewleys Hotel and at the Golf Club. These impacts can also be mitigated somewhat through a
combination of materials selection and landscape design. Following mitigation, the impact
will be moderate and neutral. South Dublin County Council N7 Newlands Cross Upgrade
Environmental Impact Statement
Arup Consulting Engineers December 2007 Page 66
In addition, there is a significant difference in the cost for construction of both options. The
Overpass will cost approximately €53 million whereas the Underpass will cost approximately
€78.7 million.
Therefore, having considered the environmental impacts, engineering characteristics and the
economics of both options it was recommended that the overpass was the preferred junction
choice

trihead

read today in local paper [tallaght echo] - pat rabbite, local td quoted as saying starting may 2012 finishing may 2014.

Wild Bill

trihead wrote: »

read today in local paper [tallaght echo] - pat rabbite, local td quoted as saying starting may 2012 finishing may 2014.

Are you sure he didn't say "may start 2012 may finish 2014?

D.L.R.

Finally a bit of pragmatism re road building, ie build stuff we actually need, for traffic which actually exists!

Refreshing.

celticbest

Just thought I give this Thread a bump....

http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/13243939821461917.html
http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=179&Itemid=244
http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=485

Is construction still due to begin in April?

When is it due to be completed if it starts on time?

Wild Bill

celticbest wrote: »

Just thought I give this Thread a bump....

http://www.labour.ie/press/listing/13243939821461917.html
http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=179&Itemid=244
http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=485

Is construction still due to begin in April?

When is it due to be completed if it starts on time?

Sorry. But nothing in those links suggests actual work

Govt target of -8.6% deficit depends on 1.9% fantasy growth in 2012. Reality indicates about 0.5% (if any).

The "adjustment" will be made by a further reduction in capital spending.

So take any statements by FG/Lab/Govt about any project where they don't actually announce a signed contract as mere bull****.:cool:

bfocusd

BuzzFish wrote: »

Had a look through the planning doc as I was wondering why and overpass and not underpass. I had thought the "obvious" way to go was to drop the N7 below the cross but after reading the below it does seem like the overpass is the better option....

Thought you guys might be interested....

3.7.3 Construction Duration
It is estimated that the construction of the Overpass could take up to 2 years.
However, the Underpass Option could take up to 3 years to construct as it would involve
removing a significant quantity of rock to allow the mainline N7 to be placed under the
Fonthill/Belgard Road (R113)

3.7.4 Construction Traffic
It is estimated that at its busiest there will be approximately 20 HGV vehicles per hour
arriving at the site (worst case scenario) for the overpass scheme. The underpass will generate
a greater number of additional movements resulting from the excavation of the rock and the
piling activities.


OPTION OVERPASS UNDERPASS
Total Construction Cost incl. VAT and PVC
€53,064,067 OVERPASS
€78,759,56 UNDERPASS


3.15 Conclusions and Recommendations
In this report we considered two proposed options i.e. Underpass and Overpass, in the context
of their respective construction and operational impacts. A summary of the impacts is
presented in the Options Matrix (See Figures 3.11a – 3.11c).
In summary however, our examination of both options revealed the following issues.
Firstly, there are significant construction issues with the Underpass Option when compared
with the Overpass Option. To construct the Underpass, approximately 6 metres of rock would
need to be excavated, which given the location of the junction, would be a time consuming
and onerous task. As a result of this issue construction of the underpass could take
approximately 1 year longer. This increased duration in turn has a number of knock on effects
with regard to traffic disruption, severance, noise and dust. On a national road of such
importance these issues equate to significant impacts.
Conversely, the Overpass Option has greater operational impacts. Noise levels will increase
slightly at approximately 5 No. receptors. However, this impact can be mitigated back to at
least existing levels. There will also be an increased visual impact with the overpass option
particularly at a number of residences along the northern boundary east of the junction, at
Bewleys Hotel and at the Golf Club. These impacts can also be mitigated somewhat through a
combination of materials selection and landscape design. Following mitigation, the impact
will be moderate and neutral. South Dublin County Council N7 Newlands Cross Upgrade
Environmental Impact Statement
Arup Consulting Engineers December 2007 Page 66
In addition, there is a significant difference in the cost for construction of both options. The
Overpass will cost approximately €53 million whereas the Underpass will cost approximately
€78.7 million.
Therefore, having considered the environmental impacts, engineering characteristics and the
economics of both options it was recommended that the overpass was the preferred junction
choice

I know starting dates for everything is very erratic, but the metro west is planned to go through that junction, underground from belgard, towards fonthill, if the road was to be excavated the work would be immense and the effect it would have on the metro west (if they do ever proceed with it) would be extreme too, not to mention flooding, I've seen many new roads in Ireland that have badly flooded or are not draining properly, if it were to excavated, I've no doubt it would become a area for overflow.

Im not talking about rain like the floods either, the n7 has bad drainage in general, but especially at the inbound exit at Brown's barn, that junction is lethal with heavy rain.

spacetweek

bfocusd wrote: »

I know starting dates for everything is very erratic, but the metro west is planned to go through that junction, underground from belgard, towards fonthill,

NX will be an overpass. Metro West is planned to go through the junction at ground level, not under it. Nothing in this location will be under ground level. Not sure what you mean.

spacetweek

Wild Bill wrote: »

Sorry. But nothing in those links suggests actual work

Govt target of -8.6% deficit depends on 1.9% fantasy growth in 2012. Reality indicates about 0.5% (if any).

The "adjustment" will be made by a further reduction in capital spending.

So take any statements by FG/Lab/Govt about any project where they don't actually announce a signed contract as mere bull****.:cool:

Bill, while you may be right, that reduction won't happen until next year, by which time NX and M11 will be under construction. I reckon they'll make it through. We're now less than 2 months away from the start date of June 1st. Too late to cancel now, this year's budget was signed off ages ago.

Wild Bill

spacetweek wrote: »

next year, by which time NX and M11 will be under construction. I reckon they'll make it through. We're now less than 2 months away from the start date of June 1st. Too late to cancel now, this year's budget was signed off ages ago.

O Lord Spacetweek - let's hope you are right!

etchyed

spacetweek wrote: »

Bill, while you may be right, that reduction won't happen until next year, by which time NX and M11 will be under construction. I reckon they'll make it through. We're now less than 2 months away from the start date of June 1st. Too late to cancel now, this year's budget was signed off ages ago.

There has been talk of the possibility of an emergency budget. Nothing is set in stone.

Wild Bill

etchyed wrote: »

There has been talk of the possibility of an emergency budget. Nothing is set in stone.

Indeed.

The current regime's budgetary projections are based on a fantasy growth rate of 1.8% (2012) when we are unlikely to achieve zero. :cool:

ardmacha

The current regime's budgetary projections are based on a fantasy growth rate of 1.8% (2012) when we are unlikely to achieve zero

The first quarter's tax intake was ahead of prediction, so may not be that much out over the year, even if growth is not quite that expected. But even if it were, the IMF are relatively relaxed about variations caused by external factors, whatever about the Euro looneys. The government would be unwise to significantly change these plans and a delay of a month wouldn't be fatal.

Relax!

etchyed

ardmacha wrote: »

...the IMF are relatively relaxed about variations caused by external factors, whatever about the Euro looneys.

It's a shame then that the Euro looneys make up 2/3 of the troika.

Setanta_og

What make you think we have any control of a start date let alone a budget for this project we should be addressing our questions directly to ECB/IMF HQ cc to Angela and Nicholas Our disfunctional POLITICAL SYSTEM is no longer relavant

Jayuu

Let's just wait and see what happens as opposed to turning this into a political thread. I reckon there are enough of those on boards.ie if you really want them.

BluntGuy

Setanta_og wrote: »

What make you think we have any control of a start date let alone a budget for this project we should be addressing our questions directly to ECB/IMF HQ cc to Angela and Nicholas Our disfunctional POLITICAL SYSTEM is no longer relavant

I don't think Angela and Nicholas have any say in whether an interchange upgrade in Ireland will take place.

As for not turning this into a political thread, well clearly it necessitates some degree of political discussion, but I'd rather keep it away from a general discussion about the EU/IMF agreement.

Of course in the spirit of the above, I would ask, what is your evidence that "we" don't have control over the start date of this project?

spacetweek

BluntGuy wrote: »

Of course in the spirit of the above, I would ask, what is your evidence that "we" don't have control over the start date of this project?

Exactly. It's starting in 6 weeks. If it wasn't starting in 6 weeks, we'd know by now.

BuzzFish

Received an email from the NRA this morning.....

It is anticipated that the contract will be awarded in July 2012, with construction commencing immediately following the signing of the contract. The construction period for works is 21 months. However, this target contract award date is very much dependent on the Preferred Bidder (BAM Balfour Beatty) progressing speedily to contract close.

Wild Bill

BuzzFish wrote: »

Received an email from the NRA this morning.....

Sadly, that is almost identical to what I was told by the NRA exactly 12 months ago...except then it was expected the contract would be signed in July 2011 :rolleyes:

Wild Bill

spacetweek wrote: »

Exactly. It's starting in 6 weeks. If it wasn't starting in 6 weeks, we'd know by now.

Hmm. But six weeks from when you posted this on April 10th would be 22nd May!

Now they are talking about it starting after a July (31st July ) contract signing.

Looks like the six weeks is now 16 weeks (at least).

NEDDURC

Any update on when this project is due to start?

robert muldoon

NEDDURC wrote: »

Any update on when this project is due to start?

Just been on to NRA today and informed me that contract is due to be awarded in July and work will commence as soon as contract is signed

mydiscworld

robert muldoon wrote: »

Just been on to NRA today and informed me that contract is due to be awarded in July and work will commence as soon as contract is signed

Afraid I'm going to have to say I'll believe it when I see it!

rameire

cant wait for this to start, traffic is going to be absolutely nuts, around Newlands X for a few years.
Thankfully I have a motorbike and will be able to wizz past.

I wish Mysterious was here to tell us all how it should be done.