M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

tonc76

antoobrien wrote: »

I don't recall anybody saying that they are.

But that still doesn't explain why we are being fed a line that, based on what we can see happening on NX/N11 & N5 both of which had construction under way less than 6 months after contract award, is spurious.

In terms of NX the works on site at the moment are site clearance, ducting works, pavement works for the temp outbound carriageway, Newlands Cross GC wall and gantry bases on the N7 inbound. None of the above take a lot of time design wise and the main design is going on in the background. N11 is similar with site clearance and some structural works going on.

I've no idea who is saying 12 months or what reasoning they based that time on

annfield1978

My point is that the Contractor's intention to start in 2015 is completely independent of the design stage, why they are in no rush, I have no idea

With a 60km scheme being designed by 2 design consultants, a lead in time of 3-4 months would be sufficient to have design progressed a good bit

So really it programming decision by the Contractors, and doesn't hinge on the design

f2

I have no idea of the contractors intentions and I doubt anybody else has either, but I still doubt the contractors will sign contracts before Christmas and wait until 2015 before putting boots on the ground, would not make sense!

Carawaystick

Isn't this a PPP, they usually only start paying out on construction completion

So there should be some incentive to get some design done to get the work done early, how big the incentive is, is up in the air alright.

Pete_Cavan

The contractors would have been expected to submit full design information with their tender bids to allow it to be assessed as part of the project award criteria. A portion of the award marks would go towards "technical merit" which is usually subdivided into items such as design, methodology, programme, etc. This is important for design and build contracts because it allows the contracting authority to see what the tenders are proposing to give them for their money. If the contract award was based on lowest price only, the contractors would cut corners everywhere and be constantly looking for variations. Detailed design will have been done already as part of the tender process.

annfield1978

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The contractors would have been expected to submit full design information with their tender bids to allow it to be assessed as part of the project award criteria. A portion of the award marks would go towards "technical merit" which is usually subdivided into items such as design, methodology, programme, etc. This is important for design and build contracts because it allows the contracting authority to see what the tenders are proposing to give them for their money. If the contract award was based on lowest price only, the contractors would cut corners everywhere and be constantly looking for variations. Detailed design will have been done already as part of the tender process.

Detailed Design is not completed, to say otherwise is incorrect in relation to understanding the design procedure for D&B/PPP Schemes

what_traffic

annfield1978 wrote: »

Detailed Design is not completed, to say otherwise is incorrect in relation to understanding the design procedure for D&B/PPP Schemes

Does the detailed design have to be done for all of the 57km scheme in one go, or could it be done in a rolling manner? If for example contract is signed as expected before 2014, could detailed design be carried out on 26+000-->14+000 section (were 26+000 is the Gort junction)
http://www.galway.ie/en/media/n17n18%20SCHEME%20MAP.pdf

and then work could commence on that section while detailed design is done on the further stages?

Pete_Cavan

annfield1978 wrote: »

Detailed Design is not completed, to say otherwise is incorrect in relation to understanding the design procedure for D&B/PPP Schemes

What do you think happens; the contractor says they will build the road for €Xm and when they get the contract figure out how much 804, concrete and tarmac they can get for that amount and design the road on that basis? They design the road first, then price it, to say otherwise is incorrect in relation to understanding tendering.


The NRA are constrained by so many things that they need to see detailed designs before they can award a contract. They need to ensure that the preferred bidders design complies with the EIS, etc. before they can sign a contract. As I said already, the NRA and their consultants need to see the design and assess it as part of the contract award criteria.

tonc76

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

What do you think happens; the contractor says they will build the road for €Xm and when they get the contract figure out how much 804, concrete and tarmac they can get for that amount and design the road on that basis? They design the road first, then price it, to say otherwise is incorrect in relation to understanding tendering.


The NRA are constrained by so many things that they need to see detailed designs before they can award a contract. They need to ensure that the preferred bidders design complies with the EIS, etc. before they can sign a contract. As I said already, the NRA and their consultants need to see the design and assess it as part of the contract award criteria.

The contractors designer produces a design of the big ticket items that is fit for pricing purposes. The remainder of the design is estimated based on experience with a +/-% caveat. It is then up to the contractor to quantify the design based on the information provided and come up with a price.

The NRA and their consultants give approval in principle (or not) for the big ticket items during the tender consultation phase but detailed design is subject to certification prior to, and during the construction phase.

mydiscworld

A quick check on google tells me it takes 1hr 18mins to drive from Galway to Limerick.

How long to you reckon it wouild take once this road is built?

veryangryman

mydiscworld wrote: »

A quick check on google tells me it takes 1hr 18mins to drive from Galway to Limerick.

How long to you reckon it wouild take once this road is built?

Im going to stick the neck out and say 45ish (Tunnel to End of M6)

antoobrien

veryangryman wrote: »

Im going to stick the neck out and say 45ish (Tunnel to End of M6)

It's about 30mins from the roundabout at the Radisson in Limerick (at the start of the M18) to the end of the M18 at Gort.

From there the new section is 28km, which is about 12km from the RAB at Doughiska, so it should take just over 20 minutes (assuming travelling at/about the legal speed limit, lower speeds on slips etc).

So yeah about 45 minutes was a good guess.

annfield1978

what_traffic wrote: »

Does the detailed design have to be done for all of the 57km scheme in one go, or could it be done in a rolling manner? If for example contract is signed as expected before 2014, could detailed design be carried out on 26+000-->14+000 section (were 26+000 is the Gort junction)
http://www.galway.ie/en/media/n17n18%20SCHEME%20MAP.pdf

and then work could commence on that section while detailed design is done on the further stages?

Its likely that the design will be done by two separate companies with the construction split into three sections for the different members of the JV. Design would be completed on a phased basis

what_traffic

http://www.galwaybayfm.ie/component/k2/item/3283-plans-for-m17-pedestrian-bridge-at-kilmoylan

Submissions can be made until the 9th of January 2014

Cant find the relevant web page on Galway County Councils website. www.galway.ie

antoobrien

It appears that contracts may be signed before Christmas after all.

Selected quotes from the article

Provision for funding is in place for the consortium chosen to construct the Gort to Tuam motorway – with expectations now that long-awaited contracts will finally be signed in December.

Construction of the 57 kilometre motorway will commence early in the New Year and will be fully completed by 2017 – and it will be the last major infrastructural project in the country for some time, costing in the region of €550m to complete.

It is a much delayed project but the consortium chosen to construct the M17/M18 motorway are close the financing of the project before the end of the year. Basically, they have been allocated funding from European banks to complete the project.

Funding for the motorway has been a major obstacle in the project kicking off but it has been confirmed that there are lending institutions willing to back the consortium both here and abroad.

It's not clear who the source is on this (there's no mention of who is making these comments in the online version), so as usual I'm not holding my breath just yet.

glineli

Sorry i missed this but noticed an update from Clare FM

http://www.clare.fm/news/m18-extension-confirmed-2014

Work is to begin on the new Gort to Tuam motorway in 2014.

Clare's County Manager, Tom Coughlan has confirmed that a contractor for the project has been selected, with construction to begin early in the New Year.

The news has been given a warm welcome by local representatives, who say the extension of the M18 Limerick/Gort route will open up access to Clare along the West coast.

veryangryman

glineli wrote: »

Sorry i missed this but noticed an update from Clare FM

http://www.clare.fm/news/m18-extension-confirmed-2014

Work is to begin on the new Gort to Tuam motorway in 2014.

Clare's County Manager, Tom Coughlan has confirmed that a contractor for the project has been selected, with construction to begin early in the New Year.

The news has been given a warm welcome by local representatives, who say the extension of the M18 Limerick/Gort route will open up access to Clare along the West coast.

I thought the opposite. Commuters to Galway and Limerick will now get out of Clare quicker. But yes I know it will have other benefits.

f2

We are still awaiting contract signing!!!!

dubhthach

Given the project is fully in county Galway it's interesting that the Clare county manager is making a comment about it.

antoobrien

dubhthach wrote: »

Given the project is fully in county Galway it's interesting that the Clare county manager is making a comment about it.

The theory is that anything that brings more people around is a good thing. Then again the people of Killenaule might have a different view.

jenningso

dubhthach wrote: »

Given the project is fully in county Galway it's interesting that the Clare county manager is making a comment about it.

Yes, funny how no Galway media are commenting on this. The Clare County Manager let the cat out of the bag maybe? I'm sure the Galway politicians want a whack at proclaiming the good news. I still bet that there will be a 'sod-turning' event in early 2014 with a load of local politicians present! Hello local elections 2014

antoobrien

jenningso wrote: »

Yes, funny how no Galway media are commenting on this. The Clare County Manager let the cat out of the bag maybe? I'm sure the Galway politicians want a whack at proclaiming the good news. I still bet that there will be a 'sod-turning' event in early 2014 with a load of local politicians present! Hello local elections 2014

They did, the announcement above two weeks ago, when it was in the galway media. See post 1606

jenningso

antoobrien wrote: »

They did, the announcement above two weeks ago, when it was in the galway media. See post 1606

I thought there was nothing 'official' about that announcement, I saw no names attached. And as said above, no contracts signed yet. Not in full blown elecion-mode yet perhaps!

antoobrien

jenningso wrote: »

I thought there was nothing 'official' about that announcement, I saw no names attached. And as said above, no contracts signed yet. Not in full blown elecion-mode yet perhaps!

Go back and read both articles - the only difference between them is that the Clare Co manager is commenting in one and becuase the other is a partial article from the newspaper it's unclear who is making the comment in Gawlay (iit could be based on the Clare Co comments).

The nice thing about the Clare FM contribution is that it seems to verify the galway article (which is more than we've seen with a lot of the comments on the project before).

LFC Murphy

Dec is finally here.........

sonnyblack

LFC Murphy wrote: »

Dec is finally here.........

Details?!! What have you heard? Put us out of our misery....

AugustusMinimus

Are they still planning a 3 level stack with roundabout where the road meets the M6 or have they finally come to sense and will go with something like a cloverleaf ?

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Are they still planning a 3 level stack with roundabout where the road meets the M6 or have they finally come to sense and will go with something like a cloverleaf ?

Don't expect a major redesign at this stage. Roundabout it is seemingly!

f2

Dec soon be gone.............. waiting.....

LFC Murphy

sonnyblack wrote: »

Details?!! What have you heard? Put us out of our misery....

Ha........ I've no news, just check this fecking thread everyday... And now we have finally reached December hopefully we'll have good news come January