M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

antoobrien

Cleahaigh wrote: »

When did they win the contract? You appear to be confused.

BAM won the original tender in 2009/2010 and it has been reported widely that they've been kicked off for not being able to meet their financial obligations that were set out in the tender bid.

The contract has not been signed yet.

Cleahaigh

gordongekko wrote: »

he's banned so can't reply

What? I haven't seen any contract award notice as required under EU law. They may have been the preferred tenderer or equivalent at some point, but they never won any contract.

Iwannahurl

gordongekko wrote: »

he's banned so can't reply

Cleahaigh wrote: »

What? I haven't seen any contract award notice as required under EU law. They may have been the preferred tenderer or equivalent at some point, but they never won any contract.

Nice one!

Cleahaigh

Maybe they should just split this contract in two as well. If they could finish the Gort to Athenry section that would be fine for now. Link the major cities and worry about the rest later.

jenningso

Cleahaigh wrote: »

Maybe they should just split this contract in two as well. If they could finish the Gort to Athenry section that would be fine for now. Link the major cities and worry about the rest later.

Tell that to commuters from north of Tuam and all the way through claregalway; you obviously don't travel that way yourself......

Cleahaigh

jenningso wrote: »

Tell that to commuters from north of Tuam and all the way through claregalway; you obviously don't travel that way yourself......

I'm very familiar with that road but we can't have everything, we're broke. They could build the Tuam and Claregalway bypasses perhaps, they would be relatively cheap compared to 30km of motorway that goes in the wrong direction anyway.

jenningso

Cleahaigh wrote: »

I'm very familiar with that road but we can't have everything, we're broke. They could build the Tuam and Claregalway bypasses perhaps, they would be relatively cheap compared to 30km of motorway that goes in the wrong direction anyway.

Planning is already in place for the motorway. I would agree that bypasses could and would have been better value for money. But, those decisions are already made and separate planning for a bypass of claregalway at this stage would take years. The motorway takes the bypass of Tuam into its overall design. And anyway, we're not broke, there's billions tucked away in banks and we're paying bankers up to 800k a year! investment in infrastructure is always a wise spend in a downturn. To hell with this austerity crap anyway, basic rule in economics is: to grow, somebody has to spend.....

Frank Black

jenningso wrote: »

investment in infrastructure is always a wise spend in a downturn. To hell with this austerity crap anyway, basic rule in economics is: to grow, somebody has to spend.....

It certainly is, especially roads, which are labour intensive and require very little imported material.

Unfortunately, politicians are snivelling cowards who care more about votes at the next election than long-term sound economic management of the country. It's politically more palatable for them to slash the Capital budget than to cut public sector pay or reduce social welfare rates.

I guess that's an argument for another thread though.....

Cleahaigh

Frank Black wrote: »

It certainly is, especially roads, which are labour intensive and require very little imported material.

Unfortunately, politicians are snivelling cowards who care more about votes at the next election than long-term sound economic management of the country. It's politically more palatable for them to slash the Capital budget than to cut public sector pay or reduce social welfare rates.

I guess that's an argument for another thread though.....

In fairness, road building relies more on trucks and dynamite than labour and more on imported oil than native quarried stone. The Claregalway bypass can't be far off permission at this stage?

Frank Black

Cleahaigh wrote: »

In fairness, road building relies more on trucks and dynamite than labour and more on imported oil than native quarried stone. The Claregalway bypass can't be far off permission at this stage?

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Most contractors already own the plant required to undertake contratuction works.
Dynamite? - maybe you've been watching too many episodes of the A Team or something - it's use in rock excavation is limited on road building schemes, most schemes excavate rock by mechanical means.
Imported oil is used in the bound layers which make up the top three layers of the carriageway as a binder agent for the non-imported agregates - the 804 and Capping layers below this don't have any oil and are much thicker, so how you figure there is more imported oil than quarried stone in road build up is strange. Obvioulsly there's also the drainage pipes and MH's, service ducts, boundary fencing, landscaping, earthworks, safety barriers, structures such as culverts, bridges, retaining walls and various accomodation works which are an integral part of road construction and don't require 'imported oil'.

Irish and Proud

Frank Black wrote: »

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Most contractors already own the plant required to undertake contratuction works.
Dynamite? - maybe you've been watching too many episodes of the A Team or something - it's use in rock excavation is limited on road building schemes, most schemes excavate rock by mechanical means.
Imported oil is used in the bound layers which make up the top three layers of the carriageway as a binder agent for the non-imported agregates - the 804 and Capping layers below this don't have any oil and are much thicker, so how you figure there is more imported oil than quarried stone in road build up is strange. Obvioulsly there's also the drainage pipes and MH's, service ducts, boundary fencing, landscaping, earthworks, safety barriers, structures such as culverts, bridges, retaining walls and various accomodation works which are an integral part of road construction and don't require 'imported oil'.

....and you can build the road in concrete anyway, and electric cars will become far more commonplace in the nearer future...

Cleahaigh

Frank Black wrote: »

Not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Most contractors already own the plant required to undertake contratuction works.
Dynamite? - maybe you've been watching too many episodes of the A Team or something - it's use in rock excavation is limited on road building schemes, most schemes excavate rock by mechanical means.
Imported oil is used in the bound layers which make up the top three layers of the carriageway as a binder agent for the non-imported agregates - the 804 and Capping layers below this don't have any oil and are much thicker, so how you figure there is more imported oil than quarried stone in road build up is strange. Obvioulsly there's also the drainage pipes and MH's, service ducts, boundary fencing, landscaping, earthworks, safety barriers, structures such as culverts, bridges, retaining walls and various accomodation works which are an integral part of road construction and don't require 'imported oil'.

What has owning the plant got to do with anything?

In any event, all the plant required to excavate, transport and place materials etc rely on imported oil last time I checked. Most of the energy required for the production of the various materials you cite is generated by plants that operate on imported hydrocarbons - concrete, plastics and steel being particularly energy intensive.

Anyway, in your effort to run face first into that windmill you appear to have missed the basic point, which is that the proportion of jobs created per euro spent is not great on road schemes compared to other capital works projects e.g. buildings, watermain replacement, main drainage schemes etc, and it gets increasingly poorer the bigger the job.

jenningso

In fairness, this argument is going nowhere. The motorway as planned and tendered for goes from Gort to Tuam; FULL STOP. A lot more oil will be wasted by cars and trucks sitting for hours every day in Tuam and Claregalway while waiting for the motorway to be built. This country needs infrastructure, not NIMBYs. And yes, we should be pumping investment into capital works, not just for the jobs created by the projects, but for the increased efficiency that such infrastructure brings.

Frank Black

Cleahaigh wrote: »

What has owning the plant got to do with anything?

In any event, all the plant required to excavate, transport and place materials etc rely on imported oil last time I checked. Most of the energy required for the production of the various materials you cite is generated by plants that operate on imported hydrocarbons - concrete, plastics and steel being particularly energy intensive.

Anyway, in your effort to run face first into that windmill you appear to have missed the basic point, which is that the proportion of jobs created per euro spent is not great on road schemes compared to other capital works projects e.g. buildings, watermain replacement, main drainage schemes etc, and it gets increasingly poorer the bigger the job.

I don't have figures on jobs generated per euro on road schemes compared to buildings or watermain works - so I won't dispute your assertion (though it would be nice to see a link or something to back these statements up).
However, it's not all about the amount of people employed in the construction phase - which will be short-term anyway - investment in construction provides a legacy of infrastructural improvement which offers significant long-term economic and social benefits. Benefits like noise and air quality improvements, improved safety, improved transport links and accessibility and increased reliability.

UK studies (Construction in the UK Economy – the benefits of investment) have indicated that road construction is one of the best ways of stimulating economic activity – not just in the construction sector, but across the economy as a whole, including manufacturing sectors. It also has one of the lowest levels of imports, so the stimulus spending stays within the national economy.

grumpy old man

Don't forget that a motorway will eliminate at least one serious/fatal car accident per year.
That's at least 40 million over road lifetime.
Any we can put electric cars/trains on it when the oil runs out :-)

tonc76

grumpy old man wrote: »

Don't forget that a motorway will eliminate at least one serious/fatal car accident per year.
That's at least 40 million over road lifetime.
Any we can put electric cars/trains on it when the oil runs out :-)

From RSA road collision facts 2011

Costs of road collisions

Serious ~ €350,000

Fatal ~ €2,600,000

spacetweek

grumpy old man wrote: »

Don't forget that a motorway will eliminate at least one serious/fatal car accident per year.
That's at least 40 million over road lifetime.

How long a motorway does it have to be?

iopener

Cleahaigh wrote: »

Maybe they should just split this contract in two as well. If they could finish the Gort to Athenry section that would be fine for now. Link the major cities and worry about the rest later.

you know what will happen here, c'mon do you trust polictians.they'll say we'll look into it, blah blah blah.if are the 2 sections are not build together you'll waiting even longer for the second section.long long time

glineli

After the announcement today about BAM signing the contract for N11 and N7 works, is the M18 up next? And would BAM be able to do all 3?

black47

glineli wrote: »

After the announcement today about BAM signing the contract for N11 and N7 works, is the M18 up next? And would BAM be able to do all 3?

Last I read from Varadkar, the M18 is certainly next and hopefully contract signing before end of year. Surely BAM would be stretched too far but you never know. They seem to be hoovering up everything. Schools Bundles 3, 3rd level works and whatever you're having yourself.

tonc76

glineli wrote: »

After the announcement today about BAM signing the contract for N11 and N7 works, is the M18 up next? And would BAM be able to do all 3?

BAM were the preferred tenderer but have been removed from that role and now have no involvement in the M17/18.

misstiggie

tonc76 wrote: »

BAM were the preferred tenderer but have been removed from that role and now have no involvement in the M17/18.

where did you hear this information if you dont mind me asking??

tonc76

misstiggie wrote: »

where did you hear this information if you dont mind me asking??

Post #1382 amongst others ...

"BAM won the original tender in 2009/2010 and it has been reported widely that they've been kicked off for not being able to meet their financial obligations that were set out in the tender bid.

The contract has not been signed yet".

misstiggie

In relation to getting jobs on any road works apparently starting up in Ireland over the next year or so, what chances do you think people have of getting work if they moved abroad for work when the economy fell? My partner left Ireland three years ago and has secured full time construction work on billion dollar projects and has done really well, but he misses home and this is a chance of work, problem is; I’m hearing nothing but "john Joes brothers cousins neighbour know paddy Joe who’s worked there for years and sure he needs a job, that’s him sorted"... Will this ethos of "who you know" over shadow individuals who are highly qualified working abroad chances of getting the job??????

All opinions appreciated

misstiggie

tonc76 wrote: »

Post #1382 amongst others ...

"BAM won the original tender in 2009/2010 and it has been reported widely that they've been kicked off for not being able to meet their financial obligations that were set out in the tender bid.

The contract has not been signed yet".

Thanks for that

tonc76

misstiggie wrote: »

In relation to getting jobs on any road works apparently starting up in Ireland over the next year or so, what chances do you think people have of getting work if they moved abroad for work when the economy fell? My partner left Ireland three years ago and has secured full time construction work on billion dollar projects and has done really well, but he misses home and this is a chance of work, problem is; I’m hearing nothing but "john Joes brothers cousins neighbour know paddy Joe who’s worked there for years and sure he needs a job, that’s him sorted"... Will this ethos of "who you know" over shadow individuals who are highly qualified working abroad chances of getting the job??????

All opinions appreciated

I think the days of "who you know" are gone at this stage. There are so many people with excellent qualifications, experience etc on their CV's that companies have the pick of the bunch when it comes to recruitment.

misstiggie

tonc76 wrote: »

I think the days of "who you know" are gone at this stage. There are so many people with excellent qualifications, experience etc on their CV's that companies have the pick of the bunch when it comes to recruitment.

And do you feel those at home would be considered before those who areabroad?

Thanks for your opinion, I know he has not been out of work so it’s easierto say this; but his quality of life and being around family and friends is nowquite important to him, so he wishes to come home knowing he'll be taking a bigpay cut.

I just feel it’s now or never, if he gets home on one of the apparentupcoming jobs he can always wiggle his way around jobs but if he doesn’t, whenwill he get a construction job chance in Ireland again

ELCAT2009

Its interestesting to see that on the Galway County Council Website it indicates that negotaions are on-going with Direct Route Consortium & NRA.
http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/RoadProjects/N17N18GorttoTuamScheme/

Fingers crossed they agree soon!:)

tonc76

misstiggie wrote: »

And do you feel those at home would be considered before those who areabroad?

Thanks for your opinion, I know he has not been out of work so it’s easierto say this; but his quality of life and being around family and friends is nowquite important to him, so he wishes to come home knowing he'll be taking a bigpay cut.

I just feel it’s now or never, if he gets home on one of the apparentupcoming jobs he can always wiggle his way around jobs but if he doesn’t, whenwill he get a construction job chance in Ireland again

I wouldn't see current location as a barrier to employing someone. If their CV checks out and they come across well in an interview, they have every chance of securing the job. The difficulty comes when several people's CV's check out and they all come across well in interviews but there will always be competition. While he may lose out financially he will gain by being around his family and friends which you cannot put a value on.

antoobrien

misstiggie wrote: »

where did you hear this information if you dont mind me asking??

This isn't a swipe at you misstiggie but could all people that are new to the thread please read more than a few pages or use the search functionality, because genuine questions like this have more than likely already been answered. So isntead of looking like honest questions they look lazy at best and often disingenuous.