"Operation Armageddon" in 1969 would have been mass suicide for Irish - STAY ON TOPIC

darkman2

'Operation Armageddon' would have been doomsday - for Irish aggressors




FORTY YEARS ago, in August and September of 1969, intense rioting and civil unrest prevailed throughout Northern Ireland.

As the violence reached fever pitch the then taoiseach, Jack Lynch, made a televised speech to the nation on RTÉ in which he used the now immortal and much misquoted phrase: “We will not stand by”.

For almost 40 years, historians and political pundits have argued over the precise meaning of this provocative – and yet somewhat ambiguous phrase. Had Jack Lynch intended to convey the possibility of an Irish Army invasion of Northern Ireland – ostensibly to protect nationalists from sectarian attacks?

Unlikely as it may seem today, the Irish Army did indeed draw up secret plans to invade the six counties.

In a secret Irish Army document, drawn up in September 1969 and entitled Interim Report of Planning Board on Northern Ireland Operations – the Irish military authorities explicitly outlined their concept for “feasible” military operations within the six counties.

In its opening paragraphs, the military document – seen by The Irish Times – predicts with considerable understatement that “all situations visualised [in this document] assume that military action would be taken unilaterally by the Defence Forces and would meet with hostility from Northern Ireland Security Forces”.

In other words, due to the prospect of confronting far superior forces and being exposed to “the threat of retaliatory punitive military action by UK forces on the Republic”, Irish military operations would of necessity commence unannounced – with no formal declaration of war.

The document sets out various attack scenarios whereby the Irish general staff would seek to exploit the element of surprise to launch both covert unconventional or guerrilla-style operations against the British authorities, along with conventional infantry attacks on Derry and Newry.

Before elaborating in detail on the precise nature of such offensive operations within Northern Ireland, the authors of this secret document provide a health warning of sorts to their political masters.

At paragraph 4, a statement is made that “The Defence Forces have no capability of embarking on unilateral military operation of any kind . . . therefore any operations undertaken against Northern Ireland would be militarily unsound”.

However, despite this caveat, the document goes on to outline “accepting the implications of subparagraph 4a . . . conventional military operations on a small scale up to a maximum of company level and unconventional operations could be undertaken by the Defence Forces” – subject to such action being of short duration.

At paragraph 4, sub-paragraph g of this extraordinary document, the Irish Army goes on to identify the towns of “Derry, Strabane, Enniskillen and Newry” as most suitable for infantry operations “by virtue of their proximity to the Border” – and also by virtue of their predominantly nationalist demographics.

At sub-paragraph h, the Irish military authorities identify the BBC TV studios in Belfast as a primary target for destruction along with “Belfast airport, docks and main industries . . . located in the northeast corner”. The document observes that due to their “distance from the Border . . . any military operations against these (targets) should preferably be of the unconventional type”.

The remainder of the 18 pages of secret documents dealing with “Northern Ireland Operations” and “Planning for and conduct of Border operations”, also seen by The Irish Times , deal with the steps necessary for the execution of specific – albeit limited – military operations against Newry, Derry and major infrastructural targets in Belfast.

The document outlines at paragraph 23b the requirement for four infantry brigades to be brought up to strength and trained intensively to “operate in company groups” against urban targets – in other words, company-sized attacks on RUC, B Special and British Army elements in Derry and Newry.

At paragraph 23c the document also outlines the requirement for three motorised cavalry squadrons to be fully equipped and brought up to strength – presumably for armoured reconnaissance and lightning strikes on Northern Ireland security forces located in urban areas such as Derry and Newry.

At paragraph 23d, the document recommends the establishment of “a Special Forces Unit, prepared for employment, primarily on unconventional operations”.

At the time that this document was drafted, in September 1969, the Irish Army was seriously under-strength, with a total of 8,113 personnel. While individual troops were relatively well armed with FN 7.62 automatic rifles – purchased for service in the Congo – the Irish Army was severely lacking in transport and other support elements necessary for combat operations, however limited in scale.

At one point in the military document, it is suggested that “CIÉ buses” would have to be commandeered to get Irish troops into action against Border targets. The Irish did have some artillery support – mainly 120mm mortars and second World War vintage 25-pound field guns.

However, the Irish had little or no air support – the Air Corps possessed approximately a half dozen serviceable De Havilland Vampire jets in the autumn of 1969. These aircraft would have been of little use against RAF Phantom and Harrier jets, stationed at that time within a very short flight time from Northern Irish air space.

In terms of ground forces, in September 1969, the British army presence in Northern Ireland was already on high alert and consisted of almost 3,000 heavily armed troops of the 2nd Queens Regiment, the Royal Regiment of Wales and the Prince of Wales’s Own Regiment based in Belfast, Omagh and Derry. These units had – unlike their Irish counterparts – considerable experience and training in conventional large-scale combat tactics as part of Nato’s UK 16 Para Brigade.

Many of these units had just recently rotated to Northern Ireland following deployment as part of Europe’s Nato Northern Flank Mission.

Armed with Humber armoured personnel carriers – equipped with Rolls Royce six- cylinder engines – along with Saracen armoured fighting vehicles and overwhelming air superiority, the British army presence in Northern Ireland in the autumn of 1969 would have been more than capable of dealing decisively with any Irish Army incursion north of the Border.

Irrespective of the element of surprise, the Irish Army would have been subject to a massive British counter-attack – probably within hours of their initial incursion. Irish casualties would have been high as the British would have sought to swiftly and indiscriminately end the Republic’s unilateral military intervention – which would have had the potential to completely destabilise Northern Ireland, leading perhaps to the type of sectarian violence and ethnic cleansing seen in central Europe just two decades later.

In the final paragraph of the document, the Irish military authorities warn of the doomsday scenario that the aptly named Operation Armageddon might bring about for the Irish Republic – if launched by Lynch’s government.

“Sustained operations of this nature would demand the total commitment of the State . . . Should the operation miscarry, the consequences could be very grave for the State and the people it is intended to assist.”

Luckily for the Irish Republic – and the people of Northern Ireland – Lynch’s declaration not to stand by never translated into a declaration of war.

www.irishtimes.com

I agree with the authors thoughts however he has left out the crucial asspect of international opinion at the time. The Americans were supportive of UN troops being put into the North but could not commit because this might lead to "Chinese and Russian troops in the Southern States as peacekeepers".

Regardless any invasion, even if we had the capability at the time, would have disasterous. A documentary on this intriguing document is to be shown on RTE tomorrow.

If an invasion actually happened imagine what this country would be like today.....also is it realistic to expect the British would simply have left it at removing the "aggressors" from the North and not invaded the Republic!?

Zebra3

Looking forward to the docu.

Should be good.

An invasion would have been the morally correct thing to do, but sadly would have been doomed to failure.

darkman2

Zebra3 wrote: »

Looking forward to the docu.

Should be good.

An invasion would have been the morally correct thing to do, but sadly would have been doomed to failure.

I think the fact that...

it is suggested that “CIÉ buses” would have to be commandeered to get Irish troops into action against Border targets.

(lol!)

....tells us all we need to know:rolleyes:

AlmightyCushion

The best time to do something like this probably would have been while JFK was president. He had close ties to Ireland so America could have stepped in. By the time that happened though Britain probably would have bombed us back to the stone age.

javaboy

darkman2 wrote: »

I think the fact that...

(lol!)

....tells us all we need to know:rolleyes:

Well like the document says, they were planning on making it a surprise attack. Even if they did have decent troop transports, they would have given the game away a bit.

AlmightyCushion

Shame this thread has nothing to do with Lynch sending Bruce Willis to blow up an asteroid.

javaboy

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

By the time that happened though Britain probably would have bombed us back to the stone age.

Let's see. Ireland.... 1969.... so that's about.... carry the one.... 5 years back?

darkman2

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The best time to do something like this probably would have been while JFK was president. He had close ties to Ireland so America could have stepped in. By the time that happened though Britain probably would have bombed us back to the stone age.

Irish America was sadly never used to it's full potential by us. We should have gone down the Isreal route of good organisation and promotion but the Government seemed to treat Irish America as though they were and are like pariahs or something.

Given the clout Irish America had at the time though in US politics it is reasonable to assume the Americans might not have sat back but that is just conjecture...

DublinWriter

javaboy wrote: »

Well like the document says, they were planning on making it a surprise attack. Even if they did have decent troop transports, they would have given the game away a bit.

I heard a strange story from a guy I used to work with. He was retired from the Irish army and was an ex-corporal in the Ranger Wing.

He maintained at the time that his unit had received orders to go into position just outside Fermanagh and were actually five miles across the border with a small field gun when they received orders to head back to their base ASAP.

I've never been able to verify his story.

buynow

Considering the UK and the US were and are Allies, and both members of NATO, the US would have been obliged to declare war on Ireland.

Actually wouldn't all of western Europe have declared war on Ireland? That is one of the core parts of NATO, and attack on one member is an attack on all, especially if it occurs in Europe.

javaboy

buynow wrote: »

Considering the UK and the US were and are Allies, and both members of NATO, the US would have been obliged to declare war on Ireland.

Actually wouldn't all of western Europe have declared war on Ireland? That is one of the core parts of NATO, and attack on one member is an attack on all, especially if it occurs in Europe.

Yep that's what I was thinking. I read that Irish Times article this morning and was surprised there seemed to be no mention of the international impact at all. Whatever about the military consequences (i.e. the UK destroying us), the international impacts for years to come would have been even more disastrous. Ireland was on the verge of turning it around economically and EU membership was right around the corner. This would have been suicide in more ways than one.

darkman2

buynow wrote: »

Considering the UK and the US were and are Allies, and both members of NATO, the US would have been obliged to declare war on Ireland.

Actually wouldn't all of western Europe have declared war on Ireland? That is one of the core parts of NATO, and attack on one member is an attack on all, especially if it occurs in Europe.

It's hard to imagine a US government sanctioning such action against Ireland but that would be out of concern for South Boston more then the Irish here.

There are more "Irish" then "Isreali Jews" in the US and they would never take such action against Isreal for example.

AlmightyCushion

buynow wrote: »

Considering the UK and the US were and are Allies, and both members of NATO, the US would have been obliged to declare war on Ireland.

Actually wouldn't all of western Europe have declared war on Ireland? That is one of the core parts of NATO, and attack on one member is an attack on all, especially if it occurs in Europe.

Obliged doesn't necessarily mean they would though.

buynow

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Obliged doesn't necessarily mean they would though.

True, but it also means the opposite of the US intervening on Ireland's side even less likely. It would have had too much impact on balance of power in the cold war.

Bottle_of_Smoke

darkman2 wrote: »

It's hard to imagine a US government sanctioning such action against Ireland but that would be out of concern for South Boston more then the Irish here.

There are more "Irish" then "Isreali Jews" in the US and they would never take such action against Isreal for example.

Yes but they didn't secretly control everything

*oh **** this isn't stormfront*:eek:

Dyr

Lynch was never going to send the army in, the army would never have gone in, and even if they did the brits would almost certainly have known about it long before anyone crossed the border.

Didn't even have the bottle to really try to bring in the UN.

funk-you

DublinWriter wrote: »

I heard a strange story from a guy I used to work with. He was retired from the Irish army and was an ex-corporal in the Ranger Wing.

He maintained at the time that his unit had received orders to go into position just outside Fermanagh and were actually five miles across the border with a small field gun when they received orders to head back to their base ASAP.

I've never been able to verify his story.

It's true, my auldfella was a Sgt. at the time and has a similar story. He's not the type for bull ****ting. According to him they were to go in and hold out for three days until the UN got involved. They were already across the border when the order came through to stand down.

-Funk

darkman2

funk-you wrote: »

It's true, my auldfella was a Sgt. at the time and has a similar story. He's not the type for bull ****ting. According to him they were to go in and hold out for three days until the UN got involved. They were already across the border when the order came through to stand down.

-Funk

If so then an act of agression defacto occured even if they did not fire a shot. I wonder will they mention troops had already crossed the border in the documentary.

darkman2

Bambi wrote: »

Didn't even have the bottle to really try to bring in the UN.

Doomed from the start anyway because Britain is a security council member. It was them that said to the Americans that foreign peacekeepers could end up on their soil because of their social problems in the Southern States at the time.

DamoDLK

darkman2 wrote: »

A documentary on this intriguing document is to be shown on RTE tomorrow.

If anyone could record it and post it on youtube that would be great.. I'd love to see some of it- as many Irish abroad would!?!?:pac:

AlmightyCushion

DamoDLK wrote: »

If anyone could record it and post it on youtube that would be great.. I'd love to see some of it- as many Irish abroad would!?!?:pac:

It might pop up on the rte player on their site.

IvyTheTerrible

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It might pop up on the rte player on their site.

That won't let you watch it without some proxy thing.

(Damn you RTE, I want to catch up on my Eastenders).

funk-you

darkman2 wrote: »

If so then an act of agression defacto occured even if they did not fire a shot. I wonder will they mention troops had already crossed the border in the documentary.

Should be interesting, what time and channel is it on. I'd say he'd like to see it.

-Funk

Manic Moran

The US wouldn't have time to get involved. By the time they'd manage to load the first C-141, the British would have made it half-way to Dublin.

NTM

Dartz

The only hope would have been a surprise attack to cripplke the vastly superior enemy's fighting morale....

Yes, that worked brilliantly for the last crowd to try it.

Of course, the UN wouldn't have cared a toss because 'we started it', and anyone stupid enough to look to the Soviet Union would've gotten a 2 word response starting with F and ending in uck Off.

laugh

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

That won't let you watch it without some proxy thing.

(Damn you RTE, I want to catch up on my Eastenders).

You need to pay us monies frenchy.

Euro_Kraut

We so could have taken them. No one is a match for the FCA - The Undefeated Army! Plus we would have been a lot better used to the weather than the British. The could never have coped with our mild autumns.

Beanstalk

Id always hear too they were only going to hold newry until the UN stepped. Apparently the UK would have difficulty vetoing the motion because they would have been considered a country actively at war or something...

Kalashnikov_Kid

funk-you wrote: »

It's true, my auldfella was a Sgt. at the time and has a similar story. He's not the type for bull ****ting. According to him they were to go in and hold out for three days until the UN got involved. They were already across the border when the order came through to stand down.

-Funk

My Grandfather was head one of the Reserve forces at the time. His kids can remember his mum crying at the hall as he set off to be on standby. How far he got, I'm not sure. Close to the border anyway. Was definately not seen as a mere formality at the time.

El Siglo

It would be even funnier if Lynch had set up a 'special' group of nordies that escaped the North to go back in and terrorise the RUC and British Army, kind of like 'Inglourious Basterds'...;)

DamoDLK

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It might pop up on the rte player on their site.

Prob will, but I can't watch it on the rte website, usually says i've to be in ROI or NI to watch...

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

That won't let you watch it without some proxy thing.

(Damn you RTE, I want to catch up on my Eastenders).

Same as Oz.... well not the Eastenders bit.. dont care much for that.. Top Gear ftw