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Extension - are we dreaming?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭kennyb3


    Would we be mad to consider an extension of only 90 sq feet?basically thinking of knocking our dining room out a bit further to be level with kitchen extension.

    In terms of finish we'd just want it painted and we d separately be costing and paying for a French door.

    Still looking at 100 per square foot?

    Wouldn't really be worth it then for such a small extra space would it?

    Obviously at that size we would need planning and were thinking of going straight to a building contractor - assume that would be fine?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    kennyb3 wrote: »
    Would we be mad to consider an extension of only 90 sq feet?basically thinking of knocking our dining room out a bit further to be level with kitchen extension.

    In terms of finish we'd just want it painted and we d separately be costing and paying for a French door.

    Still looking at 100 per square foot?

    Wouldn't really be worth it then for such a small extra space would it?

    Obviously at that size we would need planning and were thinking of going straight to a building contractor - assume that would be fine?
    More than 100€ in my experience small extensions exceed rules of thumb for a variety of reasons.
    Only you can answer if it's worth it
    You may need structural input which should be in dependant of contractor, but in order to get comparable quote between contractors you really need an outline spec & drawing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Autobotsarego


    We want to build a playroom/tv room onto the back of our house for our young kids and are looking for help/advice.

    Ideally this would be a separate room that we can pull the doors on - rather than going for an open plan kitchen extension which seems more common recently.

    We've an L shaped kitchen diner with the wall down between. The kitchen runs out about 6/7 feet past the dining area. The dining area has a sliding door.

    Our idea is to make that sliding door - internal glass doors and build on a playroom of approx 7 foot wide by 11 foot long with french doors and a large velux to keep light coming through to dining room table. Firstly is this a bit narrow?

    From the kitchen extension to the boundary wall is about 8/8.5 foot but builder said we'll have to build inside that wall and by time we do room will be 7 foot wide (or tiny bit over).

    Anyway we got a builder to quote and it came in at €12.5k incl vat. It includes;

    Foundations, rising walls Floor slab with 100mm insulation
    Block work
    Roof to match existing with one velux 1140 x 1180
    Grp finish to flat roof area
    Plastering, Internal 72mm insulated board. Exterior to match existing
    Ceiling 300mm fibre glass insulation
    French doors Pvc
    Plumbing one radiator
    Electrics Pendant, 2 double sockets out side light and TV point
    Internal joinery 1 pair of double doors, glass in painted frame
    Laminated floor painted skirting
    Painting extension only
    Footpath to match existing
    All builders waste removed


    So my queries:

    1. Above cost reasonable?

    2. Other considerations? I understand we don't need planning permission but do we need;

    a) an architect/structural engineer to sign off at end? (for future sale of house) cost?
    b) or input throughout? again cost?

    3. Any input/ideas into this generally before we go ahead. I think the room will be narrow but okay as it will be long.

    Any way/tricks we can do anything else to keep light coming into dining room area?


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Autobotsarego


    Any thoughts?


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    I will suggest to look for Architect as he can sort out design and shape of it, If You want closed extension, what about natural light source in the room what's an the back of the house now, I believe it's the kitchen?
    What u-value on walls, did heating boiler has to be upgraded to heat extra space?
    12.5K sounds very low for new extension properly built and insulated? What kind of block You use? Maybe AAC?
    Where You based?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    12.5 k to me sounds about right or maybe a little over the odds for an extension of that size and for what you want done. However You should get an architect in too. These lads will ensure that it's built properly but a good archtitect may be able to get you extras (size) for the same price or a little dealer. Get more than one quote. Is the current builder using poor materials??

    Something that sounds to good to be true doesn't mean it's not true. It might be a great deal you're getting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Autobotsarego


    Thanks for the input - 1 saying it sounds reasonable, another saying not - bit confused.

    Can i ask how much an arch tech would add to this project. 10%? 20%? Or is there a flat fee?

    Say I contact 3 in my area - what happens next? Do they come visit me and the site or i visit them? Would they charge for that alone? Dont want 3* bills of €300-€400 before i even start.

    all very confusing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    You can out it out to tender on some websites. That's why an architect would be useful at this stage.

    However, with an extension of that size I'd be happy to let a competent builder with good references have at.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,353 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Thanks for the input - 1 saying it sounds reasonable, another saying not - bit confused.

    Can i ask how much an arch tech would add to this project. 10%? 20%? Or is there a flat fee?

    Say I contact 3 in my area - what happens next? Do they come visit me and the site or i visit them? Would they charge for that alone? Dont want 3* bills of €300-€400 before i even start.

    all very confusing

    lots of companies will do an initial site consultation, say a 1/2 hr, for free if theres a chance of getting the job.
    but you wouldnt be expecting a sketch or anything, just a site visit to se if its feasible and what issues may arise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Autobotsarego


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    lots of companies will do an initial site consultation, say a 1/2 hr, for free if theres a chance of getting the job.
    but you wouldnt be expecting a sketch or anything, just a site visit to se if its feasible and what issues may arise.

    Thanks - assume they'd be able to give me a rough indication of their & builders costs.

    Any idea how much their costs would be?

    Had another quote last night from a builder which was circa €20 - 22k so that's a huge difference from first one. not sure if one's expensive, one cheap or it of both.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Whats the total area of the extension?


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,353 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Thanks - assume they'd be able to give me a rough indication of their & builders costs.

    Any idea how much their costs would be?

    Had another quote last night from a builder which was circa €20 - 22k so that's a huge difference from first one. not sure if one's expensive, one cheap or it of both.

    sorry auto, my post above was actually supposed to be in a totally different thread, i must have had two pages open at the same time!!!

    edit: for whats its worth, your first quote is very good


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Autobotsarego


    Whats the total area of the extension?

    We'd be ending up with a room approx 7.5/8 foot by approx 11 foot. It's a tv room for our girls. Bit narrow but should be okay.

    One builder told us we could build on boundary wall, other said we'd have to build inside it, thereby taking off about half a foot (I think)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    So lets say 8 square meters then. I work in old money.......

    Am i right in saying that?

    So the second builder is quoting at 2,500 per square meter?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    We'd be ending up with a room approx 7.5/8 foot by approx 11 foot. It's a tv room for our girls. Bit narrow but should be okay.

    One builder told us we could build on boundary wall, other said we'd have to build inside it, thereby taking off about half a foot (I think)

    Are you having to move drains etc? It sounds like a basic build to me. The first guy sounds a bit more realistic. Did they give you a pricing breakdown?

    If you don't mind me asking , do you have any kind of clue about building etc? It sounds to me as if the second guy is trying to take advantage.2500 per square meter.......

    Square meter pricing is a general guideline and a rough guideline at that. I'd have said these days a simple structure could be put up for 1000 - 1100 if not cheaper.

    As I said keep getting qoutes. Get references and view previous work.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,879 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    We'd be ending up with a room approx 7.5/8 foot by approx 11 foot. It's a tv room for our girls. Bit narrow but should be okay.

    One builder told us we could build on boundary wall, other said we'd have to build inside it, thereby taking off about half a foot (I think)

    One builder was correct. You cannot build on the boundary wall as you only own half of it. You will be encroaching on another persons land, and they can enforce you through legal action to remove the whole structure.

    You need to agree a detail with your neighbours with regards to an adequately structural wall built along the centre of the boundar line that allows you to build on your side, and allows them to build on their side in the future with
    It effecting each other.

    The bad thing about this, is that usually the firsterson to build has to build this wall at their own cost.

    Otherwise, you build on your side keeping the whole structure, any overhangs and all drawings from the roof etc on your side of the fence.
    Are you having to move drains etc? It sounds like a basic build to me. The first guy sounds a bit more realistic. Did they give you a pricing breakdown?

    If you don't mind me asking , do you have any kind of clue about building etc? It sounds to me as if the second guy is trying to take advantage.2500 per square meter.......

    Square meter pricing is a general guideline and a rough guideline at that. I'd have said these days a simple structure could be put up for 1000 - 1100 if not cheaper.

    As I said keep getting qoutes. Get references and view previous work.

    €100 per square meter for a simp,e structure yes, but allow about €1500 per square meter for a finished decorated item and you shouldn't go over that budget.


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    There's a bit of drainage to be moved, from my experience 95% of buildings. Normally it's about 5k for foundation, 10-15k shell, depends on windows, doors and type of structure and insulation. If structural wall removed than another 3-5k for structural steel.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    kceire wrote: »
    One builder was correct. You cannot build on the boundary wall as you only own half of it. You will be encroaching on another persons land, and they can enforce you through legal action to remove the whole structure.

    You need to agree a detail with your neighbours with regards to an adequately structural wall built along the centre of the boundar line that allows you to build on your side, and allows them to build on their side in the future with
    It effecting each other.

    The bad thing about this, is that usually the firsterson to build has to build this wall at their own cost.

    Otherwise, you build on your side keeping the whole structure, any overhangs and all drawings from the roof etc on your side of the fence.



    €100 per square meter for a simp,e structure yes, but allow about €1500 per square meter for a finished decorated item and you shouldn't go over that budget.


    Agreed. €1500 per sqm for a turn key extension.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭vwt


    We are building a small extension to the side of our house.Its just under 12sqm.Its very basic,,foundations,concrete floor and match into existing apex roof.One internal wall to be knocked down,no rsj required..Price for builders finish,I'm supplying windows and doors.We got two irish builders and two polish builders to price it....surprising results
    1. Irish 15,000
    2. Irish 19,200
    3. Polish 23,750
    4. Polish 27,320
    WTF!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    Poles haven't figured out how to dodge VAT, USC etc.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    we only discuss legal trading practices here, and we don't discriminate. no more discussion on the nationality of the contractors. Thank you


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭DeJa VooDoo


    JonathonS wrote: »
    Poles haven't figured out how to dodge VAT, USC etc.

    Disgraceful comment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭iamtony


    Quick question all the quotes mentioned are metres squared does that mean you don't account for the cubed space so it's only the floor space your working off?

    Basically I'm trying to work out a rough cost of a side extension and the space is about 3mts wide and about 8mtrs long.
    If I multiply 3x8 it's 24mtrs squared which would cost about 24 x 1500 = 36,000
    Is that correct? Or if I go 2 stories basically double it?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    iamtony wrote: »
    Or if I go 2 stories basically double it?

    Basically, yes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 83 ✭✭Keepan Eye


    That's a good Post paddy147. Most of us wouldn't know how to spec a build. I mentioned in my previous postings on a different thread that a Builder will know how to cut corners unless a Spec is laid down in very very very explicit detail. eg Size of Cabling, performance of a heating system, its likely life expectancy, drainage , timber quality etc etc etc,,,, So I am thinking of employing an Architect. Its a small extension but it has to be done right...I have to live with it.
    A former neighbour got a kitchen extension and I kid you not, but one year down the road the thing came away from the Wall of the main house. A Gap you could fly a Jumbo Jet through [ well, it was huge anyway], The builder never tied it to the main house wall. The porch is the same. The extension had to come down in full at which point it was found that the floorboards of the kitchen were installed over Earth......yes clay.
    So what do people think...Architect, the way to go?---is it very dear [ suppose it could save in the long run].


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭Paranoid Mandroid


    kceire wrote: »
    One builder was correct. You cannot build on the boundary wall as you only own half of it. You will be encroaching on another persons land, and they can enforce you through legal action to remove the whole structure.

    You need to agree a detail with your neighbours with regards to an adequately structural wall built along the centre of the boundar line that allows you to build on your side, and allows them to build on their side in the future with
    It effecting each other.

    The bad thing about this, is that usually the firsterson to build has to build this wall at their own cost.

    Otherwise, you build on your side keeping the whole structure, any overhangs and all drawings from the roof etc on your side of the fence.
    .

    Just want to double check to make sure I'm getting it right, you did explain it well, just being 100%. Let's say you have a boundary wall that's a foot wide. Half yours, half your neighbours. Can I build a wall from the dead centre of that boundary wall (my half of it), into my side and then build an ext on my side of that wall, so no over hangs of gutters etc.? Neighbour also gains half a foot running the length of our ext. Right? Cheers


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Just want to double check to make sure I'm getting it right, you did explain it well, just being 100%. Let's say you have a boundary wall that's a foot wide. Half yours, half your neighbours. Can I build a wall from the dead centre of that boundary wall (my half of it), into my side and then build an ext on my side of that wall, so no over hangs of gutters etc.? Neighbour also gains half a foot running the length of our ext. Right? Cheers

    Very basically...you can't build on a shared/party boundary wall, even on your own side, without your neighbours agreement. Neither of you own 'half' the wall...you both own the entire wall!


  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭Paranoid Mandroid


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Very basically...you can't build on a shared/party boundary wall, even on your own side, without your neighbours agreement. Neither of you own 'half' the wall...you both own the entire wall!

    Got it, thanks for that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 places


    Just wondering have 25k to spend on an extension how fare will that get me doing most of the work myself, doing kitchen /living area extension.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    places wrote: »
    Just wondering have 25k to spend on an extension how fare will that get me doing most of the work myself, doing kitchen /living area extension.

    No more that 39.9 m.sq....that's when Building Control Amendment Regulations would kick in and, basically, it becomes very difficult to self-build.


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