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Extension - are we dreaming?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Gordo85 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Just a quick one - hoping for some advice / pointers / feedback!

    We are looking into building a single storey extension onto the rear of our 3 bed semi-D in Dublin. Area is 4.5m2 X 2.5m2 approx (11.25m2 circa).

    I am almost 100% that there are no drains beneath the site - house is a new build and waste etc from upstairs goes through pipes / drains at gable end.

    Happily for us our neighbours built an extension to the rear of their home a few years ago, so on that basis we would be building onto that (this covers the 4.5m2 length of the extension).

    Just wondering if peeps could give an update re likely build cost for this - seeking builders' finish with 1x radiator, 1x double socket etc.

    Is a ballpark of €1k per m2 a good basis as a rough calculation? Presumably this is exclusive of vat @ 23% ?

    Thanks in advance for any pointers - apologies if similar has been discussed recently.

    Yeh it's doable but just engage an architect.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    BryanF wrote: »
    There must be at least 1 person a week who asks this, I wish more would come back and confirm what the works to compete to Builders finish/complete/spent in rest of the connecting existing spaces cost.

    Just priced a 9m2 glazed on 2 walls extension, with a 3m ope to an existing ~30m2 kitchen room getting renovated ~45k complete.

    Hey Brian. I feel your pain. I just think that people need to follow a simple cheat sheet when getting work like this done. Like a check sheet.

    Always engage an architect and explain to them what you want, (finish etc)

    You'll achieve a lot more for your budget this way.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    Always engage an architect and explain to them what you want, (finish etc)

    the only way of getting accurate quotes is to get an architect on board

    I love architects I do, and work with them everyday but having repeated this over and over in your last few posts, I am sorry but it is simply incorrect in the marketplace.

    Having an architect does not guarantee that you will get price accuracy, certainty or clarity. In many cases its far from it (not to tarnish all with the one brush but this is in answer to "the only way of getting accurate quotes is to get an architect on board")

    What you need is a design (by a registered design professional) which is then turned into a detailed measured schedule and tendered on a like with like basis to at least 5 builders. Very very few architects do this from my experience over 17 years in the Dublin market.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    kkelliher wrote: »
    I love architects I do, and work with them everyday but having repeated this over and over in your last few posts, I am sorry but it is simply incorrect in the marketplace.

    Having an architect does not guarantee that you will get price accuracy, certainty or clarity. In many cases its far from it (not to tarnish all with the one brush but this is in answer to "the only way of getting accurate quotes is to get an architect on board")

    What you need is a design (by a registered design professional) which is then turned into a detailed measured schedule and tendered on a like with like basis to at least 5 builders. Very very few architects do this from my experience over 17 years in the Dublin market.

    Would you not consider an architect a design professional or what profession would you suggest?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    Would you not consider an architect a design professional or what profession would you suggest?

    My point is highlighting that there are very many more professions in the world capable of design than simply architects. Building Surveyors, Engineers & Arch Techs can just as easily produce a set of detailed plans for clients.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Gordo85 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Just a quick one - hoping for some advice / pointers / feedback!

    We are looking into building a single storey extension onto the rear of our 3 bed semi-D in Dublin. Area is 4.5m2 X 2.5m2 approx (11.25m2 circa).

    I am almost 100% that there are no drains beneath the site - house is a new build and waste etc from upstairs goes through pipes / drains at gable end.

    Happily for us our neighbours built an extension to the rear of their home a few years ago, so on that basis we would be building onto that (this covers the 4.5m2 length of the extension).

    Just wondering if peeps could give an update re likely build cost for this - seeking builders' finish with 1x radiator, 1x double socket etc.

    Is a ballpark of €1k per m2 a good basis as a rough calculation? Presumably this is exclusive of vat @ 23% ?

    Thanks in advance for any pointers - apologies if similar has been discussed recently.

    No I personally don't think you will get an 11.25 Sq. M extension for €1k plus vat per square meter.

    Economies of scale come into play on these small works and again you finish the place, floor etc I think it will be circa 20k.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    kkelliher wrote: »
    My point is highlighting that there are very many more professions in the world capable of design than simply architects. Building Surveyors, Engineers & Arch Techs can just as easily produce a set of detailed plans for clients.

    Agreed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,903 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭peaceboi


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    Jumping on here if ye can answer this question for me? Thinking of extending upstairs to the side of our end semi detached house. Footpath and road to side of garden. Have already an existing side and back extension so want to go over this for a master bedroom ensuite approx 30m2. How much for a reasonable finish ballpark? Were told two years ago to budget 45k . Is it much more expensive now?

    We got a quote from a timber frame construction company in S.Dublin for 38sqm ground floor extension 2 rooms. Quoted 50k incl vat, ber rating a3, their own in-house architect & structural engineer would sign off, to builder's finish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Honeybelle


    Can i ask how much you can add to the cost of a build if drains have to be moved. we would have 2 that need moving a sewage and a rainwater drain thanks


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,903 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭peaceboi


    Goldengirl wrote: »
    In reply to Peaceboi, that's a good price( don't know how to quote text).
    We have all groundworks done on previous extension, but will have to have rsj support as will not be extending back to the full depth. Also want to knock existing bathroom and ensuite together to make one large family bath/showerroom. Intend to have new ensuite in extension. Simple finish, tiles obviously, but not too fancy/expensive.
    Should we employ an architect or an engineer for plans, and do we need them to work as AC ...or is this necessary?

    From what I understood, it's up to us who builds. 2 of our neighbours built extensions and they didn't hire an architect for the extension project. They hired a good reputed builder they knew, and choose the plan & style similar to what the builder had done for his previous clients. And they are happy with the work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 badbuild


    kf1573101 wrote:
    We are hoping to add on a 400 sq foot extension to our house. Am only really starting to work on fiqures now, but we are probably going to go the direct labour route. I have a fiqure of 20,000 EURO in my head - is this anyway realistic? We are in north county Wicklow. It is a kitchen that we are adding on and we wouldn't need any eletric work done as oh is electrician. I know this is quite vague but does anyone have any opinion on this fiqure (obviously not to include any interior fixtures & fittings)
    Thanks

    Whatever it costs make sure they know what they are doing . I've had the extension from he'll. 25sqm. The roof is brutal crookid and I look up every day waiting for it to move . Please get in professionals


  • Registered Users Posts: 36 GReid2005


    Hi. I'm hoping someone can confirm my idea of how much an extension to our dormer bungalow would roughly cost. We have a 3 bed dormer in Portarlington Co. Laois, and are looking to put an extension on to the back of the house. The downstairs extension covers 25sqm, and encompasses extending the sitting room and adding a dining room adjacent to the sitting room and kitchen. All straight walls, no angles. We plan on reusing the current sitting room window and adding a new 4 panel bi fold exterior door from the new dining room leading out to the back garden.

    The 1st floor totals 33sqm, and encompasses 2 bedrooms and a Jack and Jil between the two. There will be two large veluxes in each of the two new bedrooms. I have a budget of E85K excl. VAT.

    There are no site access issues and I'm just looking at a builders finish. I have plans drawn up myself in PDF but just need to know if I'm dreaming before I contract an architect to draw up plans.

    I don't know how to upload the PDF's to the post so I cant give a visual representation of what I'm doing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    More a general questions.

    I read a thread on page 2 with a guy who did an single storey kitchen extension for about €1850 per metre.

    My question is, does adding a second storey drive up per sq/m costs significantly?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    More a general questions.

    I read a thread on page 2 with a guy who did an single storey kitchen extension for about €1850 per metre.

    My question is, does adding a second storey drive up per sq/m costs significantly?

    Add the area and multiply by same figure to get a ball park.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 67 ✭✭Jamesgrace


    It's generally cheaper to add height compared to ground floor , no foundations or groundwork to deal with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,903 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Tederick


    Hello

    Could you provide the name of the builder they used by PM of course?


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My builder will be off the job for a couple of weeks (but this was known in advance).

    I am as far as walls being built. I somehow haven't got a proper 'before' photo, so the first photo is from day one. My next door neighbour allowed us to knock the wall between the gardens (with a small bribe) to allow us greater access.

    It's an L shape extension, and it extends 10ft to the rear of the house and 5ft to the side (to fill the 'alley' at the side). The plan is to knock out the rear of the house for access, but not the side (the alley-way will become a toilet and utility room of sorts).

    Anyway, not sure how much I'll end up spending when all is said and done, but this is it so far:

    The various stages in order:

    1 - Wall knocked and a concrete base dug out that was to the left of the shed (was about 1.5ft tall and 10x10ft square. took ages).
    https://s8.postimg.org/mdz0uj4ph/001.jpg

    2 - Foundations
    https://s8.postimg.org/9nushfwr9/002.jpg

    3 - Hardcore action
    https://s8.postimg.org/65isl1vv9/003.jpg

    4 - Insulation
    https://s8.postimg.org/48m2gh579/004.jpg

    5 - Floor poured
    https://s8.postimg.org/szbquakk5/005.jpg

    6 - Beginning walls
    https://s8.postimg.org/r4ywcjxjp/006.jpg

    7 (1) - Walls built, steel in place for doors
    https://s8.postimg.org/ib7zvgal1/008.jpg

    7 (2) - As above 'hole' is for wide sliding door.
    https://s8.postimg.org/3ukqgvl3p/009.jpg




    I am not sure if people here will think I'm getting a great deal, or being robbed, but so far I've spent approximately €8,200 (plus an extra €1,800 for the door itself, which obviously isn't pictured).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    My builder will be off the job for a couple of weeks (but this was known in advance).

    I am as far as walls being built. I somehow haven't got a proper 'before' photo, so the first photo is from day one. My next door neighbour allowed us to knock the wall between the gardens (with a small bribe) to allow us greater access.

    It's an L shape extension, and it extends 10ft to the rear of the house and 5ft to the side (to fill the 'alley' at the side). The plan is to knock out the rear of the house for access, but not the side (the alley-way will become a toilet and utility room of sorts).

    Anyway, not sure how much I'll end up spending when all is said and done, but this is it so far:

    The various stages in order:

    1 - Wall knocked and a concrete base dug out that was to the left of the shed (was about 1.5ft tall and 10x10ft square. took ages).
    https://s8.postimg.org/mdz0uj4ph/001.jpg

    2 - Foundations
    https://s8.postimg.org/9nushfwr9/002.jpg

    3 - Hardcore action
    https://s8.postimg.org/65isl1vv9/003.jpg

    4 - Insulation
    https://s8.postimg.org/48m2gh579/004.jpg

    5 - Floor poured
    https://s8.postimg.org/szbquakk5/005.jpg

    6 - Beginning walls
    https://s8.postimg.org/r4ywcjxjp/006.jpg

    7 (1) - Walls built, steel in place for doors
    https://s8.postimg.org/ib7zvgal1/008.jpg

    7 (2) - As above 'hole' is for wide sliding door.
    https://s8.postimg.org/3ukqgvl3p/009.jpg




    I am not sure if people here will think I'm getting a great deal, or being robbed, but so far I've spent approximately €8,200 (plus an extra €1,800 for the door itself, which obviously isn't pictured).

    At first, insulation under concrete floor is not as tick as recommended,
    second -hollow blocks for walls, cheap solution, that will increase your wall insulation costs and you will have to loose internal space as you can't insulate externally boundary wall.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    At first, insulation under concrete floor is not as tick as recommended,
    second -hollow blocks for walls, cheap solution, that will increase your wall insulation costs and you will have to loose internal space as you can't insulate externally boundary wall.


    Cavity was a conscious decision based on previous extensions done by the builder that I've visited, and a friend's extension being made of same. I've read up on the pros and cons of cavity blocks, cavity wall etc. and didn't see any real issue with this approach.


    The insulation comment has me though. What thickness is generally recommended?


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    The problem with hollow blocks is that they need to be insulated. Thickness depends on insulation material used. you can use 72mm PIR insulated board, it will keep you warm, but will not comply with latest building regs. Or you can insulate externally with 200mm mineral wool EWI and get it to passive standard u-value.
    Anyway you will have to invest in insulation and it's not cheap these days.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The problem with hollow blocks is that they need to be insulated. Thickness depends on insulation material used. you can use 72mm PIR insulated board, it will keep you warm, but will not comply with latest building regs. Or you can insulate externally with 200mm mineral wool EWI and get it to passive standard u-value.
    Anyway you will have to invest in insulation and it's not cheap these days.


    Oh, I know all that. I am likely to internally insulate and looking at external insulation of the whole house a few years down the line. Not in a rush into it (pricey job).


    When I mentioned insulation though I meant when you said the floor insulation is not as thick as it should be? That was the part that threw me off. The floor insulation is 75mm (wanted 100mm but none to be found anywhere, unfortunately). Is this not about right? :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    Oh, I know all that. I am likely to internally insulate and looking at external insulation of the whole house a few years down the line. Not in a rush into it (pricey job).


    When I mentioned insulation though I meant when you said the floor insulation is not as thick as it should be? That was the part that threw me off. The floor insulation is 75mm (wanted 100mm but none to be found anywhere, unfortunately). Is this not about right? :confused:

    100mm would be a minimum, I always suggest 150mm if ever want to go with UFH .


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    I like the idea of using thermal blocks, cost a bit more but don't need to pay for insulation as it's 2in1, less labour costs less time wasted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    100mm would be a minimum, I always suggest 150mm if ever want to go with UFH .
    There's a different floor build up for UFH, it isn't a case of 'maybe I'll do it later' as it is a diffeent floor structure.
    I like the idea of using thermal blocks, cost a bit more but don't need to pay for insulation as it's 2in1, less labour costs less time wasted.

    Thermal blocks don't replace insulation, preventing cold bridging and providing insulation are two separate issues, and both need to be detailed it's not a case of either/or.


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    There's a different floor build up for UFH, it isn't a case of 'maybe I'll do it later' as it is a diffeent floor structure.



    Thermal blocks don't replace insulation, preventing cold bridging and providing insulation are two separate issues, and both need to be detailed it's not a case of either/or.

    Floor structure stay same if you go for UFH it does not mean you have to change whole floor structure especially if you go for electric floor heating option. If you use easy flow screed than it is a bit different.
    Thermal blocks is used in Ireland exceptionally to reduce thermal bridge, but in UK and rest of the world they are used to reduce or completely replace insulation.
    500mm block will have u-value of 0.11-0.16 well in Passive house requirement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Handsandtools


    To prevent cold bridge you must use insulation or materials with least thermal conductivity, same thing really.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,547 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    To prevent cold bridge you must use insulation or materials with least thermal conductivity, same thing really.

    Really! A thermal block is the same as insulation?

    OK, I'm building a new house and using your logic I have a choice of whether I use insulation or thermal blocks. If I decide not to use any insulation how do I detail compliance with Part L Building Regulations using Thermal Blocks only?

    Obviously, it's not the same thing really.


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