A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

cgcsb

Seems ridiculous that every time the nordie politicians throw the toys out of the pram they get the Irish and British governments to give them more money in exchange for behaving themselves like civilized adults.

sonnyblack

It drives me daft to see the Irish government agreeing to provide funding to a road scheme that is outside our jurisdiction when in the meantime the
death-trap M20 Cork to Limerick roads remains in cold storage.

Funding this scheme should be the lowest of the low priority

The mind boggles

marmurr1916

spacetweek wrote: »

Rename the thread!


Where did you get €107M from?

The Irish government already committed £50 million. After this agreement it's going to add another £25 million:

Section E: Irish Government Financial Support:

:: The Dublin government has pledged “targeted investment” in cross-border economic infrastructure.

:: It has committed a further £25m to the £50m it is already spending on the A5 dual carriageway linking Derry to Aughnacloy. However, the Irish government had previously committed £400m to the project – an undertaking it pulled in 2011.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/here-are-the-key-elements-to-the-new-stormont-deal-706297.html

£75 million roughly equals €107 million.

Deedsie

sonnyblack wrote: »

It drives me daft to see the Irish government agreeing to provide funding to a road scheme that is outside our jurisdiction when in the meantime the
death-trap M20 Cork to Limerick roads remains in cold storage.

Funding this scheme should be the lowest of the low priority

The mind boggles

Well so far the Irish government have welched on a commitment of £400m down to £75m. It also would be infrastructure directly beneficial to the the most isolated part of our jurisdiction. It would also benefit the many thousands of Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland.

M20 is more worthy but if it helps keep the devolved administration on track, I consider it a good investment.

marmurr1916

Deedsie wrote: »

Well so far the Irish government have welched on a commitment of £400m down to £75m. It also would be infrastructure directly beneficial to the the most isolated part of our jurisdiction. It would also benefit the many thousands of Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland.

M20 is more worthy but if it helps keep the devolved administration on track, I consider it a good investment.

Much of the missing £325 million will be made up by the Northern Ireland Executive (for which read British taxpayers since NI is heavily subsidised by Britain) - entirely appropriate since NI remains under British rule, is among the most isolated parts of the UK's jurisdiction and since the road will benefit the many thousands of British citizens living in Northern Ireland. :P

Deedsie

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Much of the missing £325 million will be made up by the Northern Ireland Executive (for which read British taxpayers since NI is heavily subsidised by Britain) - entirely appropriate since NI remains under British rule, is among the most isolated parts of the UK's jurisdiction and since the road will benefit the many thousands of British citizens living in Northern Ireland. :P

I dunno if you are kidding or what but I still maintain it is a good use of government funds. How much did the British government loan us directly during the bailout shenanigans? Ireland and Britain are co guarantors on the Good Friday Agreement. The A5 road will benefit both Irish and Northern Irish people. I agree 100% that the M20 is far more deserving of funding but that doesn't make this project any less worthy.

Since the foundation of the state, successive Irish governments have provided nothing for the ~ 500000 Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland. I support the government in this funding 100%

Redsoxfan

So, what's happening on the A5 at the moment?

What's likely to happen in the next 12-24 months?

As I now favour the M3 route to Letterkenny I have not been on the A5 in a long time.

marno21

Am I the only one who finds it strange that the Irish government are committing money to dual the A5 yet the road which the A5 connects to in the Irish republic remains single carriageway?

Deedsie

marno21 wrote: »

Am I the only one who finds it strange that the Irish government are committing money to dual the A5 yet the road which the A5 connects to in the Irish republic remains single carriageway?

I agree, I have no problem with the money going into Northern Ireland but that is rather annoying. I was hoping it would be Motorway from M50 to Derry.

Senna

Redsoxfan wrote: »

As I now favour the M3 route to Letterkenny I have not been on the A5 in a long time.

N3 or M2? Just interested as I still take the m1, n2 and a5 route.

cgcsb

Deedsie wrote: »

How much did the British government loan us directly during the bailout shenanigans?

Nothing that they wont get back with interest, making a profit on a loan is hardly an act of charity.

Deedsie wrote: »

Since the foundation of the state, successive Irish governments have provided nothing for the ~ 500000 Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland. I support the government in this funding 100%

The ROI has contributed a lot of funding for infrastructure in NI, the M8 to Larne being a noteable example.

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

How much did the British government loan us directly during the bailout shenanigans?

£3.2Bn at the second highest interest rate of any of the lenders (more than twice what some are charging). They aren't making a loss on this.

mikeym

Donegal people deserve a decent road to Dublin.

And in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement we should keep our end of the bargain and chip in for upgrading the A5.

Deedsie

L1011 wrote: »

£3.2Bn at the second highest interest rate of any of the lenders (more than twice what some are charging). They aren't making a loss on this.

Were the forced to help us out? They are in enormous debt themselves already. Why wouldn't they try to recoup some interest.

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

Were the forced to help us out? They are in enormous debt themselves already. Why wouldn't they try to recoup some interest.

The established non-Eurozone countries of the EU were under severe pressure to do so.

They didn't do it out of altruism and they are making a profit over and above any costs of financing the loan.

marmurr1916

Deedsie wrote: »

I dunno if you are kidding or what but I still maintain it is a good use of government funds. How much did the British government loan us directly during the bailout shenanigans? Ireland and Britain are co guarantors on the Good Friday Agreement. The A5 road will benefit both Irish and Northern Irish people. I agree 100% that the M20 is far more deserving of funding but that doesn't make this project any less worthy.

Since the foundation of the state, successive Irish governments have provided nothing for the ~ 500000 Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland. I support the government in this funding 100%

I do agree that it's good use of government funds, whether those government (i.e. taxpayers') funds derive from Ireland or Britain. I don't think I've mentioned the M20 (oops, just did!) but I've no gripe with the road from Dublin to Derry being prioritised over the road between Cork and Limerick.

And yeah, the remark about the road benefiting the tens of thousands of British people living in Northern Ireland was a smart remark, but it wasn't a dig at you, more at the type of unionist neanderthal politician who complains that a new road to Dublin is going to destroy good unionist farmers' fields...

PS: that loan from the British is peanuts in the context of the overall UK budget and is being repaid in full at a very high rate of interest.

Redsoxfan

Senna wrote: »

N3 or M2? Just interested as I still take the m1, n2 and a5 route.

M3. Direct to Ballyshannon is fine, especially since the Belturbet bypass was opened, other than Enniskillen and the south shore of the lake, where you can come across Bus Eireann and end up behind it for a long time.

The road around the north shore of the lake is a better route in that it tends to be less busy and more safe opportunities to overtake, but then you need to deal with the road from Pettigo to Laghey, which isn't for everyone.

But lately, I turn off the A509 after Derrylin and head to Blacklion via Florence Court and Belcoo to end up in Beleek. It's a very quiet road.

Ballybofey/Stranorlar the only PITA after that.

Basically, I am happy to trade a windy, quiet road for a wider, straighter busier road (which the M1->N2->A5->N14 route is IMHO).

YMMV and sorry for OT.

Richard

Deedsie wrote: »

Since the foundation of the state, successive Irish governments have provided nothing for the ~ 500000 Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland. I support the government in this funding 100%

Very few of these citizens pay Irish taxes.

Charles Babbage

Richard wrote: »

Very few of these citizens pay Irish taxes.

I think you mean they don't pay 26 county taxes. Any tax levied in Ireland is presumably an Irish tax.


In any case, more to the point of this forum this project is now moving towards progress

http://www.a5wtc.com/Flythroughs--Proposed-Scheme-2016

Schadenfreudia

Charles Babbage wrote: »

In any case, more to the point of this forum this project is now moving towards progress

http://www.a5wtc.com/Flythroughs--Proposed-Scheme-2016

Something that will be welcomed by the Irish people in north Donegal :cool:

Schadenfreudia

Looking at the "flyover" animation it appears the road will have a wide median but no hard shoulders?

Rather odd prioritisation??

spacetweek

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Looking at the "flyover" animation it appears the road will have a wide median but no hard shoulders?

Rather odd prioritisation??

Yes, I noticed that. The thinking nowadays in some countries is that you don't need hard shoulders since cars are reliable but for safety and sight lines reasons you still need a wide median. In the Rep we do the opposite.

Schadenfreudia

spacetweek wrote: »

Yes, I noticed that. The thinking nowadays in some countries is that you don't need hard shoulders since cars are reliable but for safety and sight lines reasons you still need a wide median. In the Rep we do the opposite.

The vehicles I frequently see with flat tyres or otherwise disabled on M-way hard shoulders would suggest such thinking is a bit daft!

And you hardly need any better lines of sight than the new motorways provide?

Isn't the solid narrow median barrier a fairly recent innovation in Europe...since about the mid-naughties?

marno21

Next Stage of A5 Scheme to Begin in Autumn 2016

The next stage of the A5 road scheme in Northern Ireland is to begin in the autumn, it has been confirmed.

Sinn Féin MLA Declan McAleer said the Regional Development Minister confirmed the public inquiry process into the development is being planned for autumn 2016.

Following a successful completion of that process, a decision will be made on the progression to the construction stage.

He said: "Given that the formal consultation is scheduled to end on April 4th it is important that there is as little delay as possible between the stages of the process so that work on the ground can start as soon as possible.

"The A5 dual carriageway is essential for the development of the north west of Ireland."

Source: http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern-ireland-news/211860/other-news-in-brief

hi5

I would have thought it would be on hold until after the Brexit Referendum.
Going through customs borders to use a road you have paid for seems a bit daft.

hi5

hi5 wrote: »

I would have thought it would be on hold until after the Brexit Referendum.
Going through customs borders to use a road you have paid for seems a bit daft.

I suspect that the chance of border controls being put in place are extremely unlikely, there are several outcomes that could result from the referendum.

The one that would require physical border controls is at the far extreme end of the scale, Brexit (with NI support) followed by severing of all trading agreements between the UK & EU countries including the common travel area that UK & Ireland enjoy.

A separation of NI from GB is more likely and that will not involve physical border controls.

Schadenfreudia

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect that the chance of border controls being put in place are extremely unlikely, there are several outcomes that could result from the referendum.

One possible outcome is that the economic shock a Brexit could deliver to Ireland if the UK is "fenced off" from the EU in response to the vote - could cause a majority in the 26 to look again at our membership.

One of the fears of the anti-Brexit camp is the with all the other pressures on it (migrants, the euro, no growth, Greece looming yet again) a Brexit would cause the EU to start breaking apart.

Anything could happen - so delaying this road till the Brexit poll is meaningless.

Let's just get on with it.

marno21

Update: as per http://www.a5wtc.com/Documents/3536/Download

Phase 1A of this scheme, from Derry to Strabane will commence construction in 2017, with phase 1B expected to start around 2019 from south of Omagh to Ballygawley (as per Wesley Johnson).

Phase 2 will commence around 2021 to connect the 2 existing complete stretches and is between Strabane and Omagh, with the remaining section from Ballygawley to the border suspended pending an upgrade of the N2 south of the border to connect to it.

marno21

A legal challenge has been lodged against the proposed A5 scheme, which may push the start date back to 2018.

http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/news/54474/new-legal-challenge-mounted-against-a5-project/

Geogregor

marno21 wrote: »

A legal challenge has been lodged against the proposed A5 scheme, which may push the start date back to 2018.

http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/news/54474/new-legal-challenge-mounted-against-a5-project/

The whole A5 saga is becoming a joke.