A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

hi5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572428#Comment_123572428

It's no different here in the south.

Galway Ring Road plans quashed as climate scheme puts brakes on traffic 'solution' - GalwayBeo

You would think with a rapidly growing population we would be increasing infrastructure.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572639#Comment_123572639

The targets have to be enshrined into law, that's a consequence of signing up to the climate accords. You can't just propose a project that doesn't take proper account of those targets.

Maybe there's a way to frame this project that does take account of the targets and it can get approval, but if people are arguing that the targets should just be ignored, or they should never have been legislated for - that's akin to climate denial (obviously I don't agree that it's a sham).

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123572639#Comment_123572639

I'd also add, a motorway standard road is more fuel efficient for vehicles due to the fact it provides a consistent speed (modern engines are more efficient at consistent high speeds), gradual rises/falls in altitude rather than steep climbs/drops and avoids bottlenecks and traffic management methods causing a slow/fast cycle over long journeys.

riddlinrussell

M20 style redesign for the A5, with a dedicated active travel route and a planning process that investigates the possibility of reinstating rail inbound perhaps?

I will restate, absolutely critical that the expedite some remedial works on the key danger spots of the existing road, as its clear we won't see this project again for at least 5-10 years…

josip

By the time the road would have been finished, the majority of cars driving on it would have been EVs. And our grid will be over 50% renewables and getting cleaner.

riddlinrussell

I mean, sure, but the judgement is pretty clear that:

• Stormont passed some laws relating to climate requirements.
• Stormont didn't factor the A5 into their climate budgets
• The A5 didn't have the climate assessments required by the new legislation done in a way that could allow the judge to make a judgement based on them, so they by default had to reject it. (This seems to be in part because Stormont is dithering on outlining how these assessments should take place)

In all cases, the road could be paved in solar panels, cars on it could run on unicorn farts, any concrete used in construction could absorb 20x more carbon than it releases, but the work to demonstrate that it does so hasn't been done, regardless of the actual impact.

firemansam4

The group of landowners who brought the challenge must have some very good solicitors working for them, they seem to have been one step ahead all the way in delaying and stopping this project going ahead right from the start. You can guarantee that they probably don't give one jot about any climate impact this road would have had, but it has got them what they wanted.

Even if Stormont was able to get all the legislation sorted to get this project back on track you can guarantee that the land owner group will still be several steps ahead and have more objections in the works.

It's sad to say, but I think the A5 project is dead in the water at this point. It may be time to look at other alternatives, even if it is just making minor changes to the more dangerous stretches of the road, and maybe even looking at reducing speed limits on sections.

Not ideal, but we are where we are, and waiting another 10 years or so for the courts to shut down this project again is not going to help anyone.

spacetweek

S**tshow. This is just as bad as that nonsense in Wales in 2023 when the Assembly scrapped all road building because they couldn't figure out how to make it compatible with reducing emissions. Crazy stuff in an economically deprived UK territory.

It was never intended that environmental commitments would be interpreted this way - they cannot call a halt to all construction because of carbon targets. If we followed this logic, we couldn't build houses either as concrete manufacture emits carbon too!

The road will only increase carbon emissions in the short term - a few decades hence every vehicle on it will be electric - and this needs in any case to be balanced against road safety considerations. There needs to be an overall carbon budget and a large scheme like this is submitted for inclusion and granted a waiver if appropriate. Perhaps they already have this and the planning application didn't include this part - in that case it's a giant snafu.

Jayuu

Frustrating as this decision is it would seem that the judge had no option but to apply the law as it exists. My question is, how did this proposal get so far without the environmental considerations being taken into account? I mean this is basic stuff here. Am I missing something?

It seems like this was an obvious way for the road's opponents to block it.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123573859#Comment_123573859

This is what happens when a government is too busy grandstanding over stupid tribal issues to actually govern.

Of course the law should have included measures for a scheme like A5, and it would have had in a proper system as that kind of thing would have come out in a debate. But to debate, you have to have a parliament, and NI's politicians collapse theirs as soon as compromise of any kind is needed.

It's only a shame that their idiocy is costing lives of people who can't vote those fools out.

road_high

Sad to hear this but not surprised. When things turn into quasi sectarian footballs in the north this inevitably happens. There’s a real paralysis all over Ireland now in terms of delivering major infrastructure and it’s a massive problem for the country. How the 00s motorway programme was delivered seems astounding to me now. We are lucky it happened then

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123574351#Comment_123574351

Paralysis all over Ireland?

M28, Adare bypass and N5 Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge are all under construction. The remainder of the Foynes to Limerick road is out for tender.

Double tracking and signaling works between Glounthaune and Midleton in Cork is underway.

A new train station in Waterford is under construction, as is a major upgrade at Galway train station.

BusConnects is under construction in Dublin.

DART+ West and South West will shortly be going out to tender.

There were major delays due to staff shortages and scandals at ABP, but that is now resolved and projects are making their way through and are going to construction.

riddlinrussell

This is primarily a big drop of the ball by Stormont/DoI ignoring their own legislation or pretending the A5 doesn't exist for its purposes, fairly similar behaviour to GCC with regards to the Galway ring road, stuck pretending things are business as usual from 20 years ago and getting slapped with reality by the courts.

In all cases we see people screaming that it's green agenda gone too far, meanwhile multiple road projects tip away getting planned, built and opened by doing wild stuff like complying with the laws of the land.

hi5

It's not over yet.

Intention to appeal ruling on A5 upgrade - NI minister

Deedsie

Hopefully they will find a solution and construction begins this decade. Scandalous that that is where we are now.

Deedsie

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northern-ireland/farmers-vested-land-for-new-a5-to-be-given-back-U2CTZK5OQ5DE3ICBLNTY7FD26M/

Thats as disappointing as it gets

bennyineire

N.I. is becoming ungovernable and it's be orchestrated by a certain small but powerful section of the population, they would rather eat a flag than put food on the table. I don't see that changing anytime soon

betistuc

I assume the farmers will have to hand back any money they were paid for the land before any compensation can be considered !

Stormont's infrastructure minister to appeal the judicial ruling on the scheme.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgv5wnd9gjo

MJohnston

Wesley Johnston's blog post on the decision should be read, by the way:

https://wesleyjohnston.wordpress.com/2025/07/21/key-consequences-of-the-a5-legal-challenge/

His key takeaways:

1)Accept that the A5 scheme cannot now happen as currently designed. For it to go ahead, it would at the very least need to be significantly re-designed to include greater integration with high quality bus services and sustainable transport. The current design is not going to happen.

2) DFI need to abandon their 19-year policy of taking the road through planning as a single, monolithic scheme. This is crippling the scheme at every court ruling. The scheme needs to be broken into standalone schemes and taken through planning separately, starting with the inter-urban sections from Ballygawley to Omagh and Omagh to Strabane which have the worst safety record. Yes, this means going back to square one and adding several more years, but what we are doing now is not working and won’t work, so this is still the best of a bad set of options.

3) The section from Strabane to Newbuildings is probably already lost. Based on recent rulings and the PAC report, I can’t see how this stretch can go ahead under any foreseeable scenario.

4) For 19 years we have failed to make meaningful localised upgrades to the A5 that could have saved lives over the years. Let’s be clear – none of these interventions would save as many lives as the proposed A5. It’s not an alternative option. But given where we are, and the fact that there are still several more years before construction even in a best-case scenario, we cannot afford to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Further overtaking lanes probably aren’t going to be possible, but we could have roundabouts installed at several blackspots within a few years, and a 50mph speed limit on problem stretches, for just a few million pounds. These could save lives even if the dual-carriageway eventually gets built.

5) As I’ve said many times, the A5 scheme is now virtually unaffordable. It now costs £2.1 bn. To put that in perspective, the massive M1/Westlink upgrade cost £0.1 bn (in 2009 prices) and we considered that a major scheme. As someone asked recently – if you were given two billion pounds to improve the economy in the west of Northern Ireland, would you spend it on this? Possibly you would – but at least let’s ask the question (before going on to point out that we don’t have £2.1 bn anyway, and no concrete plan for where we are going to find it).

6) The Dublin government, which is part-funding the road, should in the meantime use their money instead to construct a dual-carriageway on the Donegal side of the Foyle from Lifford to the Derry-Letterkenny road near Bridge End. This would achieve the same aim as the A5 on this section, but outside Northern Ireland in an area where there are fewer environmental and planning constraints.

KrisW1001

On point 6, there’s no benefit for the Irish government in building a road from Lifford to Bridge End, as the purpose of investing in A5 was to improve connection between Dublin and Letterkenny.

As the Strabane-Derry section is effectively dead, Dublin’s money should be used to get Aughnacloy-Ballygawley built - this is the major pain point for drivers from the Republic - and in exchange for that, we will also contribute to whatever schemes are put up for Ballygawley-Strabane. Getting from Strabane to Derry is NI’s problem, but if we were going to generously offer a new road between Strabane and Derry, an upgrade of R265 offers a shorter routing than Wesley’s suggestion:

Deedsie

I know this is nonsesne before I say it but at times you would wonder if the Irish government should just upgrade the M4 all the way to Sligo and extend a motorway from there up into Donegal/Letterkenny. Nonsense I know, but it was also nonsense believing NI could or would deliver the A5. How much time and energy has been wasted on this guff. Very disappointing.

Redsoxfan

As someone who has regulary travelled the A5, I don't agree that Aughnacloy to Ballygalwey is the worst section. Omagh to Strabane trumps it by some distance for anyone travelling from Dublin to Donegal.

And, going back to WJ's post, which is very good, I don't agree best use of money in Donegal would be Lifford to Bridgend. Manorcunningham to Lifford is the worst major section between Donegal and NI (ignoring Laghey to Enniskillen or indeed Ballyshannon to Enniskillen, in saying that Manorcunningham to Bridgend would be a significant commuter route.

marno21

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2025/08/07/why-is-sinn-fein-so-reluctant-to-amend-climate-legislation-to-improve-the-a5/

Tough square to circle here.

Deedsie

Is there any chance the appeal.could be successful and they get moving at this sooner rather than later or is it just an exercise to test the case further through the courts

UTV News piece suggesting the Department of Infrastructures appeal could take nine months to a year before a decision is reached.

https://www.itv.com/news/utv/2025-09-01/court-challenge-stopping-upgrade-of-nis-most-dangerous-road-could-take-a-year

Deedsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123775278#Comment_123775278

And then be rejected again. Waste of time. I know this isn't exactly a constructive post but really what is the point at this stage. Maybe come up with a new plan.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123776958#Comment_123776958

They can't let some of the decisions made by the judge sit and become precedent, so they need to challenge it even if the outcome is rejection on smaller grounds.

Deedsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123777682#Comment_123777682

Ya I get that and you right but you can be guaranteed this project will not be proceeding at the end of this appeal. So its just a waste of a year that could be put towards bypasses or a different project.

Its infuriating. Build a motorway to Sligo and extend it up into Donegal.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123777736#Comment_123777736

But check out the Irish government's record of building motorways to the NW of their country ......