A5 - Derry Dual Carraigeway

I dont know

From BBC this morning
DRD have to present the Habitats stuff today, but will a decision be made today?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21850668
A5 road project: Department legal submissions expected
A5 road No work can be done on the scheme until after the court case
Continue reading the main story
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Judge 'minded to quash' A5 decision
A5 group may face £20k court bill
Delay sees millions 'cut' from A5

The Department for Regional Development (DRD) has until Wednesday to make further submissions in a legal case over the A5 dual carriageway project.

The road links Dublin with the north west of Northern Ireland. A group opposed to its upgrade took a legal challenge against it.

Last week, a judge said the DRD should have carried out a Habitats Directive assessment, but had not done so.

He said he was minded to quash the decision to proceed with the plan.

He rejected all the other grounds of appeal from those objecting to the project.
Uncertainty

Speaking last week, Regional Development Minister Danny Kennedy said his department "will now prepare the necessary submissions in relation to the Habitats Directive".

Farmers, businessmen and landowners joined together under the Alternative A5 Alliance grouping in a legal challenge to the planned stretch of dual carriageway between Londonderry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone.

Judicial review proceedings centered on the decision to press ahead with two sections of the route, for which the Northern Ireland Executive has approved £280m.

Work on the dual carriageway has been put on hold due to the legal intervention.

Uncertainty surrounds the overall project after the Irish government downgraded funding due to its tough economic circumstances.

spacetweek

What do you guys mean by Border to Lifford?
Do you mean the N14?

I dont know

Court is adjourned according to BBC
They don't give any more info
I assume the judge is to go away and look at whatever material the DRD produced todayNo suggestion of a date for him/her to give a decision

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21850668

A5 road project: Court challenge is adjourned
A5 road No work can be done on the scheme until after the court case

A court case challenging the redevelopment of the A5 between Derry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone has been adjourned.

Farmers and landowners opposed the planned dual carriageway.

Last week, a judge said the Department for Regional Development (DRD) had not carried out the required Habitats Directive assessment.

He said he was minded to quash the decision to proceed but gave the DRD until Wednesday to make submissions.

He rejected all the other grounds of appeal from those objecting to the project.

EDIT:Adjourned to Friday 12th April according to twitter

I dont know

spacetweek wrote: »

What do you guys mean by Border to Lifford?
Do you mean the N14?

I assume they're on about the Aughnacloy border to Lifford.
i.e the Ballygawley-Omagh & Omagh-Strabane sections?

Con Logue

Omagh - Ballygawley funding has been allocated AFAIK by the Northern Ireland Executive. It would be effectively an extension of the A4 Dungannon - Ballygawley HQDC so Jim A. can't really object - No "fenian" money will be paving Loyal Ulster for some considerable time yet.

Most of the objections appear to be "compo" related by landowners, in spite of sundry campaigners hoping for a Lazarus like resurrection of the Portadown - Derry railway. Not wanting to fuel the Guckian Vendetta but it ain't going to happen.

In any case, the A5 is not fit for purpose for much of its length. It's a relatively narrow, twisted road with no hard shoulders and very few places where it is safe to pass. Typical of NI road construction - the A28 that branches off the A5 towards Armagh beyond Aughnacloy is like a airport runway in comparison.

I dont know

Better railway infrastructure throughout the island would be great, but as you say it ain't going to happen.
The AA5A seem to be clinging on to it as a possibility and are tweeting THIS article from the Derry Journal
It's a pity the Great Northern Railway through Omagh is gone, but it must have closed for a reason (lack of use/too expensive to run) It would have been useful in the days before I could drive.

Sponge Bob

I dont know wrote: »

Better railway infrastructure throughout the island would be great, but as you say it ain't going to happen.
The AA5A seem to be clinging on to it as a possibility and are tweeting THIS article from the Derry Journal

Simplest way to do that is build it ALONGSIDE an N15 and N17 Dual carriageway from Tuam to Lifford , all the railway old alingments in between are crap twisty substandard light or narrow guage turnips.

I prefer straight lines to Arcs me.

fullstop

Aquarius34 wrote: »

It would be close I would say. The current A6 is a fast moving decent road, bar the bit going through Dungiven. I still think the A6 would be marginally faster on it's current route.

Well the A5, M1 route is only 8 minutes longer as is according to google maps so it would be faster I'd think.

I dont know

Well feck that!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22063819

Judge rules against A5 road project
A5 road The department has been given seven days to appeal the decision
Continue reading the main story

A High Court judge has confirmed he is quashing the decision to go ahead with a new £330m dual carriageway project

However, Mr Justice Stephens put his order on hold for one week.

He granted the Department for Regional Development a seven-day stay to lodge any appeal to his ruling on the A5.

He also awarded legal costs to the group of farmers, landowners and supporters seeking to block work on 85km stretches between Derry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone.

Last month, the Alternative A5 Alliance won their judicial review challenge to the planned new route due to a breach of a habitats directive.

The scheme, the largest of its kind ever in Northern Ireland, forms part of a proposed key cross-border business route linking Dublin and the north west.

Following the verdict, lawyers for the department sought to have the court order put on hold.

They wanted time to meet a requirement to carry out an appropriate assessment required under the directive.

But Mr Justice Stephens refused, citing the potential for a public inquiry and potential scope for legal confusion.

"The appropriate course in the exercise of my discretion is for the orders to be quashed," he confirmed.

However, acknowledging the potential for an appeal of his decision in the case, the judge agreed to a more limited delay.

"The applicants are entitled to plan their own businesses and their own lives," he said.

"They should not be left in any doubt about what may or may not occur in circumstances such as these where the department has acted unlawfully in breach of a habitats directive.

"I'm prepared to grant a stay until 12 noon on April 15 2013."

The legal challenge centred on the decision to press ahead with two sections of the route, for which the Stormont Executive has approved £280m.

Counsel for the Alliance, instructed by C&J Black Solicitors, claimed it has now become a different project, and that no proper environmental impact assessment (EIA) has been carried out.

In his first judgment last month, Mr Justice Stephens dismissed all but one of the campaign group's claims.

He held there had been a failure to carry out an appropriate assessment of the Rivers Foyle and Finn Special Areas of Conservation under the habitats directive.
'More harm than good'

Following the final determination a member of the Alternative A5 Alliance's committee expressed delight at the outcome.

Laura Kwasniewska said: "The decision has been quashed, albeit with a seven-day stay.

"We feel we have been vindicated and we are also relieved to have our costs paid."

She added: "This is a scheme that would have done much more harm than good, it's not in the public interest.

"It was never justified by either the traffic figures or indeed by the empty promises of economic growth, it would have been both costly and environmentally destructive."

She claimed ways of upgrading the existing A5 should now be explored.

"That would be far less costly and would deliver improved journey times and benefits for all the community."

I dont know

I dont know wrote: »

Well feck that!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22063819

Lots of unionists like Lord Laird want to see this stopped and see it as a threat for some reason. Lord Laird sounds like he belongs in a cave.:eek:

Lord Laird,
"I am delighted that the politically motivated motorway from the border with the Irish Republic and running through the United Kingdom to Londonderry is not to happen. The A5 highway was always seen as a threat to the unionist population in the west of the province. Proof of that is that its name for many in Republican circles is the United Ireland Highway".

Con Logue

Deleted User wrote: »

Lots of unionists like Lord Laird want to see this stopped and see it as a threat for some reason. Lord Laird sounds like he belongs in a cave.:eek:

Lord Laird,
"I am delighted that the politically motivated motorway from the border with the Irish Republic and running through the United Kingdom to Londonderry is not to happen. The A5 highway was always seen as a threat to the unionist population in the west of the province. Proof of that is that its name for many in Republican circles is the United Ireland Highway".

I don't know of anyone who takes Laird seriously. And I've never heard of the "United Ireland Highway" but know that the A5 is a major pain in the arse if you get stuck behind slow moving traffic.

annfield1978

This is very disappointing

Quickelles

An unusual alliance of Unionists and Environmentalists. The one thing they have in common is that both are hostile to the economic interests of the peasants in the Northwest of Ireland. :cool:

ardmacha

An unusual alliance of Unionists and Environmentalists. The one thing they have in common is that both are hostile to the economic interests of the peasants in the Northwest of Ireland.

If the peasants in Tyrone were given assisted passage to America or something then this would solve these people's problem.
It would also improve Armagh's chance of winning the Ulster championship.

Quickelles

ardmacha wrote: »

If the peasants in Tyrone were given assisted passage to America or something then this would solve these people's problem.
It would also improve Armagh's chance of winning the Ulster championship.

Armagh's chances would be tiny even if Tyrone was eliminated. Cavan is the future.

Just look at the N3 Belturbet bypass!

I dont know

Originally Posted by mayomaffia View Post
Lots of unionists like Lord Laird want to see this stopped and see it as a threat for some reason. Lord Laird sounds like he belongs in a cave.

Lord Laird,
"I am delighted that the politically motivated motorway from the border with the Irish Republic and running through the United Kingdom to Londonderry is not to happen. The A5 highway was always seen as a threat to the unionist population in the west of the province. Proof of that is that its name for many in Republican circles is the United Ireland Highway".

I've never heard it called the 'United Ireland Highway' either. I think he just made that one up. Responses like that just show the mindset of these people; anything that benefits nationalists is bad. Totally ignoring the Unionists in the west this would benefit equally.

If you have a look at the signatures on the AA5A website, you can guess that the majority of the landowners are unionists

It would also improve Armagh's chance of winning the Ulster championship.

Sure you're in the 'easy' side of the draw this year! No excuses now

JupiterKid

Very disappointing news.

The fact that opposition to the A5 project has been at least partially motivated for sectarian reasons is very sad and does not bode well for a balanced approach to the strategic regional development of NI.

ardmacha

The issue here is why the roads service did not respond promptly to the earlier rulingm ones imagines they were nobbled. The section from Omagh to Ballygawley is largely unaffected by this ruling and clearance should have sought for that, with agreement to conduct a new environmental study on the remainder as required.

The fact that opposition to the A5 project has been at least partially motivated for sectarian reasons is very sad and does not bode well for a balanced approach to the strategic regional development of NI.

it is also clear that they are playing silly buggers with the Narrow Water Bridge for sectarian reasons.

spacetweek

Hugely disappointing. Statements from the plaintiffs about the road not being justified by traffic or the economy are nonse as the whole point of the scheme was that it was developed in response to the traffic levels and economic development needs of Northern Ireland, not the Rep. The fact that we will be able to use it as an access route from Dublin to Derry/Donegal is incidental.

I know from Northern Irish people my age that views like Lord Lairds are considered laughable nowadays and it's possible that he appeals to a middle aged conservative Unionist base in some areas but it doesn't go further than that. And nobody other than a Ra head would call it the United Ireland Highway. I fear the Lord dreamt that one up in the pub!

They should split the scheme further, reapply for permission, and go ahead with what they can.

Presume you guys have read Wesley's post about it, but if not I recommend it.

Redsoxfan

spacetweek wrote: »

Presume you guys have read Wesley's post about it, but if not I recommend it.

Excellent summing up of all the facts.

Solair

JupiterKid wrote: »

Very disappointing news.

The fact that opposition to the A5 project has been at least partially motivated for sectarian reasons is very sad and does not bode well for a balanced approach to the strategic regional development of NI.

Not to mention that they could end up losing EU funding which is generally about trans-EU networks that would treat the Northwest as one integrated transport system.

I dont know

I give up! So disappointed with this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-22150857

Danny Kennedy will not appeal ruling on A5

Regional Development Minister Danny Kennedy has said he will not appeal a judges's quashing of the decision to go ahead with a new £330m dual carriageway project.

Last week, Mr Justice Stephens granted the department a seven-day stay to lodge any appeal to his ruling on the A5.

Mr Kennedy said it was his intention to "accept the ruling".

He said he had considered the "complex legal and procedural matters".

"The judge took the view that a fuller assessment of the impact of the A5 proposals on the rivers Foyle and Finn Special Areas of Conservation should have been carried out," he added.

"I now intend to have a more comprehensive assessment conducted.

"When this is completed I will consider the matter further."

Mr Kennedy said it was important that the outcome of any new assessment was not "pre-judged" and said he could not provide further detail on timescales other than to say there would be "a substantial delay".

"My officials will seek to engage with landowners to carefully work through the next steps in relation to land issues," he said.

"I am conscious of the impact of delay to this significant roads project on our local construction industry and therefore I will engage with the executive to see how finance may be deployed this year to support local jobs.

"Given the delay, it is important that other schemes that may be in a position to be progressed ahead of the A5 are given full consideration by the executive."

Mr Kennedy said he intended to bring forward an executive paper detailing other options "such as moving forward with procurement on other possible schemes."

Last week, Mr Justice Stephens awarded legal costs to the group of farmers, landowners and supporters seeking to block work on a 50 mile stretch between Londonderry and Aughnacloy, County Tyrone.

Last month, the Alternative A5 Alliance won their judicial review challenge to the planned new route due to a breach of a habitats directive.

The scheme, the largest of its kind ever in Northern Ireland, forms part of a proposed key cross-border business route linking Dublin and the north west.

Following the verdict, lawyers for the department sought to have the court order put on hold.

They wanted time to meet a requirement to carry out an appropriate assessment required under the directive.

However, Mr Justice Stephens refused, citing the potential for a public inquiry and potential scope for legal confusion.

guttenberg

Mr Kennedy is neither committing for the plans to still go ahead, or be the one to mothball the entire thing. Presumably by the time the "comprehensive assessment" is carried out he'll have moved on to another position leaving someone else to admit defeat. It'll be interesting to see what other projects get fast tracked now with the available funds.

I dont know

Exactly guttenberg! By the time the assessment is complete, he'll be gone and so will the money! As much of the money as possible will be spent east of the Bann

GoodyGumDrops

Get liking and sharing folks. Something needs to be done to save this road

http://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5?hc_location=stream

I dont know

GoodyGumDrops wrote: »

Get liking and sharing folks. Something needs to be done to save this road

http://www.facebook.com/ActionForTheA5?hc_location=stream

Hopefully this group can keep the pressure on to make sure the finances are still available once the habitats stuff has been completed. Only 2 unionist politicians listed as being in support of the A5 which is worrying...

It mightn't make have much affect, but if you have any interest in seeing this road being built, you may aswell put your name to the petition;
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/action-for-the-a5

circadian

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/docs/uup/uup_2011-05-05_man.pdf

The UUP manifesto states that they wish to pull the A5 scheme from 'Donegal to Dublin' in favour of funding widening the A2 to Greenisland. A village that has about 6,000 people.

Very convenient that it gets mucked up under UUP watch in that department. Shocking stuff.

veryangryman

circadian wrote: »

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/docs/uup/uup_2011-05-05_man.pdf

The UUP manifesto states that they wish to pull the A5 scheme from 'Donegal to Dublin' in favour of funding widening the A2 to Greenisland. A village that has about 6,000 people.

Very convenient that it gets mucked up under UUP watch in that department. Shocking stuff.

While they are clearly biased, 6000 makes it a town, not a village. Also its within a commuter belt to Derry so makes at least a small bit of sense.

circadian

Are you trying to say people commute from Greenisland to Derry? A 70 mile commuter belt?!

Dualling that road wouldn't cost that much, so I can't see why it's budgeted appropriately without needing to take from the A5 budget. The A5 upgrade would provide a better service between Derry, Strabane, Omagh and all the other settlements in that area. Not to mention the benefit of getting to Dublin quicker(cargo, post, airport links etc).

Derry to Omagh is a commuter belt.
Greenisland to Derry is not.

I dont know

Do you mean its within a commuter belt to Belfast, not Derry?
Sammy Wilson seems to be backing the A6 upgrade. Unionists will be happier with this as it doesn't benefit the South. SDLP in Derry have agrred with this, but have since backtracked a little, saying the A5 still also needs to go ahead