DART+ (DART Expansion)

Chuchote

Deedsie wrote: »

I know but not everyone can or wants to cycle. Efficient & reliable public transport also removes people's reliance on cars etc

Absolutely. In a modern society, a combination of excellent cycling infrastructure and superb public transport makes it pleasant and easy to travel.

Chuchote

If the figures in this Wiki are to be believed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Metro

"new Metro North", as recommended by the National Transport Authority will operate 60 metre trams, providing a passenger capacity of 9,900 people per direction per hour

It doesn't give figures for Dart Underground projected passenger numbers, as far as I can see.

This piece in TheJournal

http://www.thejournal.ie/dart-underground-2345567-Sep2015/

says

It had been envisaged that the Dart Underground project would have extended the passenger capacity of Dublin’s commuter rail services to 100 million journeys yearly from 33 million

but it's not clear if this is both the northern and southern subways or just the discarded southern one.

A commenter on that TheJournal piece says

The city of Munich in German has about the same population of Dublin. It has 96 underground stations and 150 overground stations (suburban and district) – these figures do NOT include the “old” tram lines that are still in use.

Carawaystick

I'd say dart underground if done right.

You'ld get some M1 traffic that goes to Heuston Q Parkwest(0 change)/sandyford(one change to greenline luas
you'ld get some N7 traffic going to City centre
N3/D15 trafic to city centre/

Bray/SoCoDu traffic going to Blanch/Balllycoolin on train now.

Metro N only helps the M1/sandyford axis

MJohnston

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'd say dart underground if done right.

You'ld get some M1 traffic that goes to Heuston Q Parkwest(0 change)/sandyford(one change to greenline luas
you'ld get some N7 traffic going to City centre
N3/D15 trafic to city centre/

Bray/SoCoDu traffic going to Blanch/Balllycoolin on train now.

Metro N only helps the M1/sandyford axis

You're forgetting Swords, and park and ride commuters from north of Swords.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

You're forgetting Swords, and park and ride commuters from north of Swords.

And the airport.

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

And the airport.

I think the airport probably has a very small impact on the amount of M50/DCC car journeys.

Carawaystick

MJohnston wrote: »

You're forgetting Swords, and park and ride commuters from north of Swords.

Everywhere North of Swords has a train/ and some would have a DART with the DU

Chuchote

MJohnston wrote: »

I think the airport probably has a very small impact on the amount of M50/DCC car journeys.

You do and others do - but some statistics must have been collected on this?

MJohnston

Carawaystick wrote: »

Everywhere North of Swords has a train/ and some would have a DART with the DU

None of the areas that DU would affect don't already have trains though either.

I also think you could include the M/N2 corridor in the catchment area for Metro North too.

MJohnston

Chuchote wrote: »

You do and others do - but some statistics must have been collected on this?

Ha I wish! This is Ireland, our authorities don't really do open data unfortunately.

Chuchote

MJohnston wrote: »

Ha I wish! This is Ireland, our authorities don't really do open data unfortunately.

"Metro North will have a final design capacity of roughly 20,000 passengers per hour, based on one 90m train every 2 minutes" and since it's the norm for us to wildly underestimate need when building anything from sewerage to transport, you can probably double that.

MJohnston

Chuchote wrote: »

"Metro North will have a final design capacity of roughly 20,000 passengers per hour, based on one 90m train every 2 minutes" and since it's the norm for us to wildly underestimate need when building anything from sewerage to transport, you can probably double that.

But that statistic has little to do with the airport, which could only possibly provide (at the very most) on average approx 4000 passengers per hour.

MJohnston

MJohnston wrote: »

But that statistic has little to do with the airport, which could only possibly provide (at the very most) on average approx 4000 passengers per hour.

And I'll explain my math here - 25 million passengers last year through Dublin Airport. If we're extremely generous and assume all of those passengers would use Metro North (which, lets be honest is very far from accurate), that's about 70,000 passengers per day (rounding up!).

So the airport usage would only, at most, account for around 3.5 hours or Metro North's predicted usage per day.

Sam Russell

MJohnston wrote: »

But that statistic has little to do with the airport, which could only possibly provide (at the very most) on average approx 4000 passengers per hour.

That is 20% of the maximum throughput - that is filling one metro every 10 mins. Currently Dart frequency is one every fifteen minutes - soon to go one every ten minutes.

Do you think there will be a Metro every two minutes (or more likely to be one every ten minutes)?

If it is frequent, reliable, and fast, it will be used.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

That is 20% of the maximum throughput - that is filling one metro every 10 mins. Currently Dart frequency is one every fifteen minutes - soon to go one every ten minutes.

Do you think there will be a Metro every two minutes (or more likely to be one every ten minutes)?

If it is frequent, reliable, and fast, it will be used.

Which it will - on the condition it provides an effective alternative to car commuting.

It's desperately needed because there are over 100k cars now using the M1 south of Lissenhall and on past the airport. That's unsustainable especially with the continued rapid growth of Swords and the general north Dublin area.

Chuchote

marno21 wrote: »

Which it will - on the condition it provides an effective alternative to car commuting.

It's desperately needed because there are over 100k cars now using the M1 south of Lissenhall and on past the airport. That's unsustainable especially with the continued rapid growth of Swords and the general north Dublin area.

And Eamonn Ryan was right about it being sensible to bring it in to share a station with the Green Line at Beechwood.

Avada

4000 passengers per hour coming out of the airport would at a guess produce less than 400 passengers for Metro North per hour on average. A large chunk of arrivals in Dublin are either transiting, living outside of Dublin or living in NI.

Staff would probably add more than 1k passengers between 5-8am at least. Again this is guess work. Might be worth looking at Eurostat to see if Tourism Ireland, the NTA or DTTAS have uploaded stats.

Zebra3

Deedsie wrote: »

Is there anyway to calculate between DART Underground or Metro North, which one would result in the bigger number of private cars removed from the M50 and Dublin city centre?

The problem is that all those cars that are removed, it starts making other people more attracted to the new spaces on the road. Things like cycling infrastructure/very high QBC would need to go in at the same time as either project would open in place of the removed cars.

brownbeard

Spencer Dock development news:
http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/back-in-the-big-time-ronan-gets-to-work-on-600m-site-35096212.html

Article mentions dart underground spencer dock station as the dart's "New underground headquarters" which could be either really badly researched nonsense or the writer is privy to info that we're not.

It will be located on what will be the best transport hub in the city.

The Dart's new underground headquarters will be located at the site, which will also link up to the Luas line, connecting it to Busarus, Connolly and Heuston train stations.

I don't think there's any detailed plans released yet but whether or not space will be left for the station will be interesting.

Reuben1210

brownbeard wrote: »

Spencer Dock development news:
http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/back-in-the-big-time-ronan-gets-to-work-on-600m-site-35096212.html

Article mentions dart underground spencer dock station as the dart's "New underground headquarters" which could be either really badly researched nonsense or the writer is privy to info that we're not.



I don't think there's any detailed plans released yet but whether or not space will be left for the station will be interesting.

I think this is just confirming the deal that he has got the land now. He will probably submit a new permission (in conjunction with Irish rail) to make the station an intrical part of the site.

ClovenHoof

brownbeard wrote: »

Spencer Dock development news:
http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/back-in-the-big-time-ronan-gets-to-work-on-600m-site-35096212.html

Article mentions dart underground spencer dock station as the dart's "New underground headquarters" which could be either really badly researched nonsense or the writer is privy to info that we're not.



I don't think there's any detailed plans released yet but whether or not space will be left for the station will be interesting.

That is actually a very interesting article if you read between the lines.

ncounties

And numerous typo's - terribly written.

Grandeeod

We are back in 2003.:D

brownbeard

ClovenHoof wrote: »

That is actually a very interesting article if you read between the lines.

I was thinking the same. Any movement on this site means that RGRE should have a definite idea of the plans for timeline and the future progress of DU. Any mention of DU at all as a potential in any RGRE press release connected with this development is telling. Much the same as the recent article about the delay of the bridge.

brownbeard

Grandeeod wrote: »

We are back in 2003.:D

Round and round we go

murphaph

Cool. I look forward to more artists' impressions of the station.

ClovenHoof

I for one welcome our Artistic Impression of never to be built rail transport infrastructure Overloads.

ClovenHoof

brownbeard wrote: »

Much the same as the recent article about the delay of the bridge.

which bridge is this?

brownbeard

ClovenHoof wrote: »

which bridge is this?

The one at Forbes Street;

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/new-liffey-bridge-put-on-hold-due-to-dart-underground-1.2712750

I believe it's to be a cycling/pedestrian bridge.

EDIT:

The NTA has told the council it anticipates it will have determined an “appropriate revised solution” for the Dart project within 15 to 18 months.

Grandeeod

ClovenHoof wrote: »

I for one welcome our Artistic Impression of never to be built rail transport infrastructure Overloads.

Careful now. Negativity is frowned upon.