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So, what you playing at the mo? Retro Edition
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
Zelda's not an RPG though. I don't mind random battles myself as long as the battle system is fun and fast paced and the random battle encounter rate is really low. There's nothing worse than something like legend of dragoon where it's a battle every 3 steps and lowly foes can take forever to beat with its stupid parappa the rapper battle system.
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
RPG doesn't equate to random battles in my book, but anyway, I just prefer the Zelda style of combat over turn based random battles. The encounter rate was quite frequent in the first area you come across them but the system is very quick to use.I've heard that before, why is it again that its not considered an RPG? Is it the fact that the storyline is linear with only one possible conclusion?
The only thing zelda has in common with RPGs is that the old games are presented in a top down view like old RPGs. Zelda is a top down metroid type game. The only zelda I'd consider an RPG would be Zelda 2 on the NES. RPGs definitely qon't equate to random battles, look at Chrono Trigger. However a top down view certainly and fantasy setting doesn't equate to an RPG either.
For it to be considered an RPG it would want to have a certain degree of character customisation and levelling up which zeldas other than Zelda 2 don't have. Bayonetta would have more RPG elements than a zelda game and you wouldn't consider it an RPG. Battles would also be based on dice rolls or randomised logarithms but there's some leeway there and RPGs do experiment with these ideas, case in point Secret of Mana that combines an RPG with zelda type combat.
So no zelda definitely isn't a roleplaying game, more metroidvania.
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
What about the added stuff you get as the game goes on? Tunics, swords, better shields, inventory items etc...is that not considered powering up?
It's not character customisation though. You pick up the items as you go through the game and you use these items to open up the path to the next objective. It's the same way that Metroid works but would you consider Metroid an RPG? Also is there anything in zelda that seperates it from metroid in terms of progression and character building?
How about Bayonetta which allows you to spend exp you collect as currency to spend of building up your character with new combos and abilities and upgrading your health. There's far more RPG elements in Bayonetta than a zelda game (other than zelda 2 so I'll take it as a given from now on) yet you wouldn't class it as an RPG.
Zelda 1 maybe you could argue it as an RPG considering the open world nature of that game and the fact that some aren't necessary to beating the game but from link to the past onwards zelda is mostly a linear affari with you picking up abilities along the wayto open up the next path. In it's basest form it's like doom, you go along a linear path and pick up new abilities in the form weapons along the way. It doesn't make Doom an RPG.
Zelda is an action game through and through with ability based progression like Metroid.
I'd consider Symphony of the Night an RPG well before Metroid or Zelda since it has a levelling up system, an intricate item and equipment system which gives it the character development and customisation that defines RPGs.
The definition of an RPG is a strange one and can't be pinned down especially in these days where every game includes RPG elements. It just annoys me when people give out about RPGs because the combat isn't like zeldas when they are two very very different things both of which are relevant.
I do agree however that there are far better ways of doing encounters in RPGs other than random encounters, chrono trigger and Persona 3 and 4 do it well and western RPGs son't have random encounters.
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
I agree it's hard to define but I can say for definite that zeldas from LttP onwards are definitely not RPGs.
As Jeremy PArish says, 'It's like the difference between porn and art, you know it when you see it'.
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
We're going to see the line between RPGs and blurred an awful lot more. For instancec you may not think it but the multiplayer in the Callof Duty games since CoD4 can definitely be considered an RPG.
Clif Blezinski may get a lot of flak for speaking his mind but I think more people should listen to him since he comes out with very good points. He said that the future of FPS games was in RPGs and well that came true with CoD4 but I think it's going to be true of more genres. There's no better way to add depth and complexity to a game without making it inaccessible than to give you customisation of your avatar with RPG systems. Most people wouldn't even recognise them as RPG systems like with CoD and Bayonetta.
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Retr0gamer wrote: »We're going to see the line between RPGs and blurred an awful lot more. For instancec you may not think it but the multiplayer in the Callof Duty games since CoD4 can definitely be considered an RPG.
Clif Blezinski may get a lot of flak for speaking his mind but I think more people should listen to him since he comes out with very good points. He said that the future of FPS games was in RPGs and well that came true with CoD4 but I think it's going to be true of more genres. There's no better way to add depth and complexity to a game without making it inaccessible than to give you customisation of your avatar with RPG systems. Most people wouldn't even recognise them as RPG systems like with CoD and Bayonetta.
Well if being an rpg means spending half the game configuring a character, or 'leveling up' etc...they can go to hell. I think I missed the boat with games of this type, I just wouldn't have the patience for it these days. Besides, the pick up & play aspect of Zelda, the certainty that when your at a point in the game then you have everything you need to be there & don't have to backtrack for three years, etc etc...and elitists be damned really, when I play Zelda I take on the role of Link...to me, that's a role play game.
The above is my personal opinion, there are many who prefer configuring things to their hearts content but I just couldn't be arsed tbh. Give me a game to play & let me play it
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Well if being an rpg means spending half the game configuring a character, or 'leveling up' etc...they can go to hell. I think I missed the boat with games of this type, I just wouldn't have the patience for it these days. Besides, the pick up & play aspect of Zelda, the certainty that when your at a point in the game then you have everything you need to be there & don't have to backtrack for three years, etc etc...and elitists be damned really, when I play Zelda I take on the role of Link...to me, that's a role play game.
The above is my personal opinion, there are many who prefer configuring things to their hearts content but I just couldn't be arsed tbh. Give me a game to play & let me play it
Wham bam thank you ma'am gameplay. :cool:0 -
Join Date:Posts: 50004
Well then RPGs might not be for you although they certainly aren't as complex or really like anything you desribe them as there. if you need to backtrack or level up then you are playing a badly designed RPG.
By the definition that playing a role makes it a role playing game makes everything a role playing game, even stuff like Gears of War :P
Maybe ease yourself in with some real action RPGs like Secret of Mana, Symphony of the Night or Actraiser. Symphony of the Night is about as complex as RPGs get even though it's an action game, if you can handle that then you can handle an RPG.
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
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Retr0gamer wrote: »Maybe ease yourself in with some real action RPGs like Secret of Mana, Symphony of the Night or Actraiser. Symphony of the Night is about as complex as RPGs get even though it's an action game, if you can handle that then you can handle an RPG.
Lol, I always have to laugh at Retr0's "If you don't like it then your doing something wrong or not good enough at it to enjoy it" responses
To revert the comment, maybe your just balls at fps games & thats why you don't like Goldeneye? I suggest easing yourself in starting with Wolfenstein on the SNES, followed by Half Life on the pc...only then will you be considered elitist enough to play Goldeneye :rolleyes:
It's true that spending more time messing about in menu's tries my patience, but that doesn't mean if I had the patience I wouldn't be any good at it. I didn't know SOTN was considered an RPG, looking forward to getting into that soon, is it everything its made out to be? Hopefully!0 -
Join Date:Posts: 50004
Enternow wrote:Lol, I always have to laugh at Retr0's "If you don't like it then your doing something wrong or not good enough at it to enjoy it" responses
I've never said anything like that.
I'm not saying you aren't good at it and can't handle it because you aren't good, I'm saying if you can handle something like the Witcher then you'd have the patience for any RPG. I was talking about easing yourself into the genre with action RPGs.
As for not liking Demon's Souls, well that is because you are **** (and by **** I really mean you don't have the patience to learn what the game expects of you :P )
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Retr0gamer wrote: »I've never said anything like that.
I'm not saying you aren't good at it and can't handle it because you aren't good, I'm saying if you can handle something like the Witcher then you'd have the patience for any RPG. I was talking about easing yourself into the genre with action RPGs.
As for not liking Demon's Souls, well that is because you are **** (and by **** I really mean you don't have the patience to learn what the game expects of you :P )
Lol, I get ya now
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Join Date:Posts: 50004
As for RPG, the first one I really got into was Knights of the Old Republic, brilliant fun, boring races and allows the likes of me to start with almost entirely real time battles before using the added texture of queuing attacks and defences to show the advantages of a turn based approach.
I actually hated KotOR. I hated the battle system and the dialogue was so boring since I was going around being good.
However since listening to the ATB podcast and giving Mass Effect a chance I now see that I was playing the game all wrong. I was going around being nice to everyone and expecting a solid battle system like expected from a japanese RPG. I realise now that western RPGs are the true definition of RPG, a role playing game where you take the role of the character you play as. While I was going around picking the best option inthe conversations I should have been having fun with the dialogue system, doing what I thought was best. When I played Mass Effect the combat was similar to KotOR, in other words a load of crap but I had loads of fun being a female Shepard that didn't take ****,was hard as nails but with a heart of gold and really enjoyed myself.
I intend to go back to KotOR and all the dozens of WRPGs I got from the GoG christmas sale and play them properly.
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,094 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 27808
Retr0gamer wrote: »Persona 3 and 4 absouletly amazing although I'd also say the same about Earthbound and Mother 3.
When you look at it:- Turn based battles
- Dungeon Crawling
- Tonnes of sidequests
- Player choice (particularly which virtual girlfriend you like best - and not the BioWare cheesy love scene type either :pac:)
- Stats, stats and more stats
- Lots of levelling up
- Hundreds of collectibles
- Easily 70+ hours of gameplay
- Massive scope for customisation based on play styles
- Ramen
And much more. They really do hit all the RPG bases 0 -
Join Date:Posts: 50004
It actually kind of sounds like a really terrible game. A game that mixes japanese dating games with dungeon crawls through random dungeons.
Just so happens that the dating sim elements are really well written and unlike overblown japanese dating sims which are totally ridiculous Persona is firmly placed in reality with all the characters acting like real high school kids and are very relatable. Also it's not all about chatting up girls, it's more about your relationship with the friends you meet during a school year.
As for the random dungeons, it sounds terrible but the battle system is probably the best ever devised for an RPG, there's no random battles and the tension of trying to get to the next save point when resources are low is like nothing except maybe a survival horror game.
Persona 3 and 4 were actually made on a relatively shoestring budgets but you really wouldn't know unless you think about it because it uses what resources it has so effectively.
Two remarkable games. I always found the SMT games much closer with Western RPGs with the tougher battle systems, dungeon crawls and how dialogue choices really affect the story.
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