Handguns for humane dispatch

fiattech

just wanted to know if i should withdraw my application for a .22 browning buckmark pistol wich i submitted to my local super 01/01/09 rather than have it refused. i also wanted to know if it is true that you can have a pistol if you hunt deer for safty reasons to finish off an animal at close range rather than using your high power rifle .?

Our man in Havana

You cannot use a pistol for humane dispatch.

The Bill has not yet been signed. Nothing in todays Iris.

It wasn't me!

Bond-007 wrote: »

You cannot use a pistol for humane dispatch.

The Bill has not yet been signed. Nothing in todays Iris.

Not correct. I know of one for definite and several anecdotally granted for this purpose.

jwshooter

fiattech wrote: »

just wanted to know if i should withdraw my application for a .22 browning buckmark pistol wich i submitted to my local super 01/01/09 rather than have it refused. i also wanted to know if it is true that you can have a pistol if you hunt deer for safty reasons to finish off an animal at close range rather than using your high power rifle .?

have you ever tried to hit some thing moving with a pistol ,the dispatch of a injured/wounded deer call it with you will with a pistol is a load of sxxt used by axx hoxxs looking for a handy way to get a pistol .

hear is the reasons, if you mortally shoot a deer its dead on its feet no finishing shot required.

if you fuxk up the shot and the animal runs your rifle is your only option unless you have a trained dog at heal.

if you walk to a downed animal thats paralyzed by the shot shoot it with your rifle or use your knife .

to carry a pistol to dispatch deer you would have to be the biggest waist of space in the country side.

Grizzly 45

[

quote=jwshooter;61195219]have you ever tried to hit some thing moving with a pistol ,the dispatch of a injured/wounded deer call it with you will with a pistol is a load of sxxt used by axx hoxxs looking for a handy way to get a pistol .

It is NOT the idea to go blazing at a running target.It is for close in work in heavy brush or where ever the animal is down that you can put a killing shot into it without putting yourself in danger by richochets or having to deal with an injured animal and a long gun in an awkward situation.

if you fuxk up the shot and the animal runs your rifle is your only option unless you have a trained dog at heal.

I dont quite see how having a dog is going to make the humane dispatch any easier.All the dog will do is track and bring you to the animal,which will more than likely be in heavy cover making it more difficult to dispatch with a rifle close in.

if you walk to a downed animal thats paralyzed by the shot shoot it with your rifle or use your knife .

And YOU personally have done this humanely and efficently and safley with a knife??? Do tell how it is done??????

to carry a pistol to dispatch deer you would have to be the biggest waist of space in the country side.

Well guess all the Continental hunters and professional UK ,and US stalkers are totally wrong then.:rolleyes:

fiattech

jwshooter wrote: »

have you ever tried to hit some thing moving with a pistol ,the dispatch of a injured/wounded deer call it with you will with a pistol is a load of sxxt used by axx hoxxs looking for a handy way to get a pistol .

hear is the reasons, if you mortally shoot a deer its dead on its feet no finishing shot required.

if you fuxk up the shot and the animal runs your rifle is your only option unless you have a trained dog at heal.

if you walk to a downed animal thats paralyzed by the shot shoot it with your rifle or use your knife .

to carry a pistol to dispatch deer you would have to be the biggest waist of space in the country side.

im sorry jwshooter if i am "the biggest waist of space in the country side" but i was only looking for a loophole in this new law that i could penetrate maybe we all should think outside the box on this one.

It wasn't me!

fiattech wrote: »

im sorry jwshooter if i am "the biggest waist of space in the country side" but i was only looking for a loophole in this new law that i could penetrate maybe we all should think outside the box on this one.

In any case, .22 is not regarded as a humane dispatch calibre. Vets' dispatch tools tend to be .32, and as far as I know the general limitation on the continent is 9mm or .38.

Sparks

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Not correct. I know of one for definite and several anecdotally granted for this purpose.

Yes, but not in .22 calibre!

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

have you ever tried to hit some thing moving with a pistol ,the dispatch of a injured/wounded deer call it with you will with a pistol is a load of sxxt used by axx hoxxs looking for a handy way to get a pistol .

It was an NWPS ranger who had the licence for a pistol for humane dispatch jw...

hear is the reasons, if you mortally shoot a deer its dead on its feet no finishing shot required.

And if you miss because the deer flinches in the last second?

if you walk to a downed animal thats paralyzed by the shot shoot it with your rifle or use your knife .

And if it's thrashing about?

to carry a pistol to dispatch deer you would have to be the biggest waist of space in the country side.

Or working with the NWPS...

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

It was an NWPS ranger who had the licence for a pistol for humane dispatch jw...
And if you miss because the deer flinches in the last second?And if it's thrashing about?Or working with the NWPS...

i know the ranger in question and dont care to commit on his business,
as its none of mine what reason he gave to get his revolver.
and its definitely none of yours

sparks, i do under stand that you have never shot deer or shot very few ?.
so how can you comment.

if you miss reload and shoot again .

guys looking for loop holes to keep pistols ,using deer dispatch as a excuse what a crock of xxxx.

if you ask any one that shoots a lot deer they will all tell you the same .they have enough to carry with out a pistol .

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

i know the ranger in question and

...and so does everyone here because he said it on here that that's what he got the licence for and that's what he uses it for. Take the rest of your concern over whose business is whose away with you, would you?

sparks, i do under stand that you have never shot deer or shot very few ?.
so how can you comment.

(a) Yes, and I'm glad you understand, I've had to say it often enough;
(b) by listening to those who do, both on here and off here. Same way you learnt, jw.

guys looking for loop holes to keep pistols ,using deer dispatch as a excuse what a crock of xxxx.

The loophole bit is certainly daft; but for some, it actually is a valid reason. Mind you, they're working when culling deer, that's why it's a valid reason for them to have pistols for humane dispatch and moderators for ear protection. Others who show up, who shoot deer as something that's not their job, may find that the Super is of the opinion that they don't actually have a valid need for those things.

if you ask any one that shoots a lot deer they will all tell you the same .they have enough to carry with out a pistol .

Actually, that's not what they tell me. And when they do grumble about the amount they're carrying, it's the journey back, not the journey out that they're complaining about.

jwshooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

[

It is NOT the idea to go blazing at a running target.It is for close in work in heavy brush or where ever the animal is down that you can put a killing shot into it without putting yourself in danger by richochets or having to deal with an injured animal and a long gun in an awkward situation.


I dont quite see how having a dog is going to make the humane dispatch any easier.All the dog will do is track and bring you to the animal,which will more than likely be in heavy cover making it more difficult to dispatch with a rifle close in.



And YOU personally have done this humanely and efficently and safley with a knife??? Do tell how it is done??????


Well guess all the Continental hunters and professional UK ,and US stalkers are totally wrong then.:rolleyes:

so what do you do with your rifle when you crawling around pistol drawn.

i have used a rifle and knife to dispatch deer for years with out use of a pistol ,i never brought my HK stalking .

a sharp knife into the atlas joint in the back of the animals head its dead in a second this the way i kill all my deer.

some continental hunters do carry pistols,for boar mostly .unlike us all hear continental hunters have to have access to a trained tracking dog.

very few uk hunter use a pistol and its all most always a single shot 38.

best not talk about the US of A .


my dog will catch and kill a injured deer in cover or hold it to bay if its a big stag by barking at it.

experience has told me there is no use for pistols when stalking.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

...and so does everyone here because he said it on here that that's what he got the licence for and that's what he uses it for. Take the rest of your concern over whose business is whose away with you, would you?

(a) Yes, and I'm glad you understand, I've had to say it often enough;
(b) by listening to those who do, both on here and off here. Same way you learnt, jw.

The loophole bit is certainly daft; but for some, it actually is a valid reason. Mind you, they're working when culling deer, that's why it's a valid reason for them to have pistols for humane dispatch and moderators for ear protection. Others who show up, who shoot deer as something that's not their job, may find that the Super is of the opinion that they don't actually have a valid need for those things.


Actually, that's not what they tell me. And when they do grumble about the amount they're carrying, it's the journey back, not the journey out that they're complaining about.

firstly, recreational stalkers that shoot 5-20 deer a season now that covers 90% of deer hunters in ireland .
hardly call that culling.
why would they want a pistol .

the guy that is doing a lot of whacking knows what he is doing so he does not have use for a pistol.

jwshooter

what are you on about i did not name any other poster ,group,etc .

Clash

jwshooter wrote:

if you walk to a downed animal thats paralyzed by the shot shoot it with your rifle or use your knife .

Sparks wrote: »

And if it's thrashing about?

That would be interesting

Sparks

As in, what if it's down and thrashing about, rather than down and paralysed :rolleyes:

Clash

fiattech wrote: »

im sorry jwshooter if i am "the biggest waist of space in the country side" but i was only looking for a loophole in this new law that i could penetrate maybe we all should think outside the box on this one.

FFS If you haven't got a valid reason, then you don't need a pistol. What do you want a pistol for that the normal reasons aren't good enough?

As far as I can see, target shooting is still the only valid reason to need a pistol.

Sparks

Clash wrote: »

FFS If you haven't got a valid reason, then you don't need a pistol. What do you want a pistol for that the normal reasons aren't good enough?

Very true. However...

As far as I can see, target shooting is still the only valid reason to need a pistol.

As far as you can see, yes... but there are people who disagree with you and whose opinion is based on extensive experience:

John Griffin wrote:

Yes i have a S&W .357mag for that very purpose and this was the stated use on application. It took well over a year and alot of talking to the Super but i eventually got it. I usually use magtech soft .38 specials, but also keep a couple of mags in it also incase and animal gets up. I have shot alot of animals with it, including a horse that was injured in a road accident for the Gardai. Vet turned up with a .32 single shot as i arrived and reckoned i was better armed and insisted i do the job.

In certain circumstances a rifle is fine for humane dispatch. When you can stand well back from the animal and get a good sight picture with a safe backdrop then thats fine. When a deer drops in deep vegetation such as bracken or heather or in a forestry drain, you would need to be standing beside them to see them. It is not safe to discharge a high powered rifle at such ranges due to ricochet. It is very difficult to be accurate at such ranges also and you risk inflicting further suffering to the animal. I use soft lead pistol ammo in these circumstances whenever possible to reduce the risk to myself and to be more humane to the animal i am dispatching. I would actually prefer to use a shotgun to be honest but it is not practical to carry both.

I have used a knife on many occasions and it is very swift for the animal when done properly, but I have taken many kicks and been bruised and sore. I know of hunters that have been split open and stabbed by deer from this practice. Certainly should never be attempted with antlered deer of any size. I bet Steve Irwin never expected a fish with a spine to kill him so quickly.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

As in, what if it's down and thrashing about, rather than down and paralysed :rolleyes:

i would use a RPG just in case i break a nail

Clash

Sparks wrote: »

As far as you can see, yes... but there are people who disagree with you and whose opinion is based on extensive experience:

Sorry, I thought the content of this thread was that there would be no more full bore pistol licences, and that would include for humane despatch.

And only olympic (target shooting) would be allowed.

So this talk of loopholes and humane despatch is just nonsense and won't be happening.

Am I right or wrong?

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

Very true. However...As far as you can see, yes... but there are people who disagree with you and whose opinion is based on extensive experience:

john griffen is a professional deer culler in the national park ,most of you guys have not a clue what that involves ,john culls well over a hundred deer a year.
so him having a pistol for dispatch has noting to do with the recreational stalker.

if the guy thats shooting 5-20 deer a season is not proficient with a rifle how is he expected to be with a pistol.

jwshooter

Clash wrote: »

Sorry, I thought the content of this thread was that there would be no more full bore pistol licences, and that would include for humane despatch.

And only olympic (target shooting) would be allowed.

So this talk of loopholes and humane despatch is just nonsense and won't be happening.

Am I right or wrong?

you have noting to be sorry about ,your dead right

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

if the guy thats shooting 5-20 deer a season is not proficient with a rifle how is he expected to be with a pistol.

Gosh JW, I don't know, maybe by shooting at paper targets on a range like the rest of us?


Clash, very true for those seeking new licences. For those with existing licences, like JG, that's not the case. IPSC fullbore pistols are not allowed anymore under the law, but there remains the possibility of continuing licences for those doing bullseye shooting and those using them for humane dispatch. These uses wouldn't contravene the law as written, it'd be down to the local Supers.

Clash

Sparks wrote: »

Gosh JW, I don't know, maybe by shooting at paper targets on a range like the rest of us?


Clash, very true for those seeking new licences. For those with existing licences, like JG, that's not the case. IPSC fullbore pistols are not allowed anymore under the law, but there remains the possibility of continuing licences for those doing bullseye shooting and those using them for humane dispatch. These uses wouldn't contravene the law as written, it'd be down to the local Supers.

Ok thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure.

jwshooter

maybe they should concentrate on the first shot and not confuse themselves with carrying two firearms .

Sparks

And maybe you should stop getting in sly digs at all and sundry. Now.

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

And maybe you should stop getting in sly digs at all and sundry. Now.

your problem is you have no argument for the use of pistols by "RECONANTIONAL HUNTERS".

you are trying to bring in the use of pistols by "PROFESSIONAL" people to justify your argument.

i will debate this with any one .

Sparks

And your problem is that you think that my pointing out John's professional opinion is my opinion. It's not. It's Johns (and many others I spoke to). My own opinion was that it was daft to have a pistol for hunting. Speaking to people like John, who had the experience and competence I did not, convinced me I was wrong and I changed my opinion. I don't recall any of them mocking anyone, mind...

And as to recreational and professional, what are your qualifications to judge competency?

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

And your problem is that you think that my pointing out John's professional opinion is my opinion. It's not. It's Johns (and many others I spoke to). My own opinion was that it was daft to have a pistol for hunting. Speaking to people like John, who had the experience and competence I did not, convinced me I was wrong and I changed my opinion. I don't recall any of them mocking anyone, mind...

And as to recreational and professional, what are your qualifications to judge competency?

no one is mocking hear, its a debate about who is entitled to use a pistol to kill a badly shot deer.

so your telling me every one that has a deer hunting licence should have a pistol for the dispatch of deer if they want one ?

Sparks

jwshooter wrote: »

no one is mocking hear

I think others might differ in opinion from you there after stuff like this:

the dispatch of a injured/wounded deer call it with you will with a pistol is a load of sxxt used by axx hoxxs looking for a handy way to get a pistol

to carry a pistol to dispatch deer you would have to be the biggest waist of space in the country side.

using deer dispatch as a excuse what a crock of xxxx.

i would use a RPG just in case i break a nail

most of you guys have not a clue what that involves

maybe they should concentrate on the first shot and not confuse themselves with carrying two firearms .

its a debate about who is entitled to use a pistol to kill a badly shot deer.

Actually, it's a debate on whether or not a pistol is a valid tool to use for humane dispatch of deer. Not quite the same thing.

so your telling me every one that has a deer hunting licence should have a pistol for the dispatch of deer if they want one ?

Actually, I'm not. Personally, I think John's more qualified than even you, and I give his opinion quoted above even more weight. I'd definitely agree that it should have a module on the HCAP (or whatever certification process you favour) to act as a certification as to competency, but I don't think it should be just down to "erra, jw says you don't need one, so feic off with ye".

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

I think others might differ in opinion from you there after stuff like this:
Actually, it's a debate on whether or not a pistol is a valid tool to use for humane dispatch of deer. Not quite the same thing.Actually, I'm not. Personally, I think John's more qualified than even you, and I give his opinion quoted above even more weight. I'd definitely agree that it should have a module on the HCAP (or whatever certification process you favour) to act as a certification as to competency, but I don't think it should be just down to "erra, jw says you don't need one, so feic off with ye".

why do you keep bring up john griffen ,he has culled more deer than most lads will see in a life time and is a professional ranger.

i am talking about recreational stalkers using pistols on deer .