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So many 'junkies'
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Marc Dazzling Show wrote: »Have you noticed that there are so many more heroin junkies around town lately?
In the last week I've even seen 2 diffeerent kids about 14 who were obviously heroin addicts- how sad. The worst is when you see two parents completely out of it on gear and they have poor little kids with them, I feel so sorry for them, can social services not do anything for them?
That's interesting- there's nothing like this in Limerick. Sounds a bit scummy to me, I would never live there.0 -
But that's just moving the problem somewhere else,it solves nothing.All you end up with is ghettos.At least when we see the junkies in the City people might actually be motivated to do something.I think attempting to shift treatment centres away from the city centre, and therefore the junkies, away from the city centre is essential. Why don't the gardai strike up a 'gentlemen's agreement' with dealers and addicts?
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whadabouchasir wrote: »But that's just moving the problem somewhere else,it solves nothing.All you end up with is ghettos.At least when we see the junkies in the City people might actually be motivated to do something.
We have been seeing them there for 30 years and people haven't been motivated to do much about it yet. At least moving the centres out of the city centre would limit their ability to mug people, steal, etc.
I don't agree with ''kicking the sh1t out of them'' though.0 -
At least when we see the junkies in the City people might actually be motivated to do something.
there are two problems to solve.
1) Their problem - addiction.
2) Our problem caused by their problem. Robbery, and anti-social behaviour.
We have no chance with 1). We might be able to fix 2).0 -
Like I said this would just create Ghettos.I think it would probably be unconstitutional as well to force someone to move for no reason other than they do drugs.If they mug people then just arrest them and send them to prison otherwise live and let live.. At least moving the centres out of the city centre would limit their ability to mug people, steal, etc.0 -
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.I think it would probably be unconstitutional as well to force someone to move for no reason other than they do drugs.
Ill tell you what is not anti-constituational - enforcing laws on drug possession, dealing, loitering with intent, loitering, public intoxicaation, robbery, intimidation, and attempted robbery.
We could really clean up the streets with existing laws. No political will.0 -
I used to work in Doncaster, the drug problem there makes Dublin seem like Disneyland. I was at work one day in the railway offices next to a track side path frequented by junkies. One day a junkie got his eye on a laptop in an unattended office in our building. He climbed over an 8 foot high palisade (the high security metal type) fence cutting his arm badly and then tried to get thought the window. A couple of track ganger's seen this and dragged him back out and held him down. He was skinny, they were big muscle men who threw sleepers around all day. The addict freaked out so much the four ganger's couldn't hold him down. All the time blood was splashing everywhere. They gangers had to take six months off work until they were sure they hadn't caught anything. At any one time there will be around 5 railway employees off work in the UK due to them coming in to contact with junkie paraphernalia dumped by railway tracks.
All this made me realise that if you want to deal with drug problems you need to take drastic action.
The thing about drug addicts is that they just don't care. Their addiction is more than just mental, it is physical. They feel as if they may die if they don't get their fix and that could actually happen. All they want is their fix and nothing, absolutely nothing, will get get in their way.
That creates a major problem in dealing with the issue. If you ask them nicely and give them support, that does nothing to end their craving.
If you round them up and lock them away you need a way to manage their cravings otherwise they will go mental/die/smuggle drugs in.
And appealing as shooting them all is, we are supposed to be living in a civilised society.
As I see it the best solution is to give them the drugs they want in a controlled environment where they aren't out committing crimes trying to fund their habit.
Decriminalising drug use and providing junkies with a free controlled drug supply, whilst weaning them off their addiction, would seem like a cheap-ish way to deal with the worst effects caused to the nation by drug abuse0 -
Stop addicts having kids & let them do as they wish!
Chances are they will kill each other, get arrested, or overdose.
The real problem is addicts having loads of kids & breeding the next generation of scumbags. In most cases these kids are reared by the state either by social welfare or social services.
When is the last time you met an addict who works 40 hours a week & takes care of their kids? We as a nation should take responsibility!0 -
I don't mind gear bags, there pretty harmless, just leave them alone and they wont do anything.0
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loveforcelbridg wrote: »I don't mind gear bags, there pretty harmless, just leave them alone and they wont do anything.
They wont try to rob you at syringe-point or anything?
Ah,good..coz i was wondering,like.0 -
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whadabouchasir wrote: »But that's just moving the problem somewhere else,it solves nothing.All you end up with is ghettos.At least when we see the junkies in the City people might actually be motivated to do something.
It solves nothing in the long-term, but in the short-term it will free the streets of our capital of the thousands of junkies who fill it every day, desperate for a fix and willing to do anything to get it.
Also, if you concentrate all heroin addicts in one place it makes it easier to access them and establish needle exchanges, teatment centres etc.
I don't agree with ''kicking the sh1t out of them'' though.
Yeah I phrased that badly I guess. I don't want to see junkies getting their head kicked in by gardai, what I meant was there has to be a major deterrent to stop them entering the city limits to score drugs.
This would obviously be better aimed at the dealers. If there was no heroin dealer to be found within the city centre, there would be far less heroin addicts on the boardwalk, talbot street etc.whadabouchasir wrote: »Like I said this would just create Ghettos.I think it would probably be unconstitutional as well to force someone to move for no reason other than they do drugs.If they mug people then just arrest them and send them to prison otherwise live and let live.
Yes it is unconstitutional and has many other flaws, such as where do you locate such an area where dealing will be tolerated. As I said above, the idea is taken from a TV programme so it is bound to have some flaws (btw, this is the only time I will associate The Wire with the word flaw). However, I believe in theory it makes sense.
Rather than waiting for a junkie to mug someone and then send them to prison, why not try and create a situation whereby it is less likely that the mugging ever takes place?0 -
i like the junkies, they help me feel better about myself0
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Marc Dazzling Show wrote: »Have you noticed that there are so many more heroin junkies around town lately?
In the last week I've even seen 2 diffeerent kids about 14 who were obviously heroin addicts- how sad.
The 'junkies' had always been congregating in specific areas around the city centre (spar on talbot st, the centra on o'connell st, basically anywhere with a clinic or hostel nearby) to buy and sell drugs and to generally hang out. they are places that they know they can always go to score or offload what ever they need. but recently the shop owners have been making big noise by regularly calling the Gardai and Radio Stations to complain about them hanging around and dealing outside their premises. so the Gardai have started moving them along and arresting them for loitering. also RTE had been videoing them around the Talbot St and Tara ST area and undercover reporters had been buying drugs from them. so these two things combined has left them with nowhere specific to do what ever it is they normally do there, and therefore they are spread out all over town. so instead of just seeing the odd large group of junkies that you used to see, you are now seeing lots of smaller groups instead. so it isnt that there are more of them, its just that they have spread out more.Dublin. Irelands biggest port. Drugs get imported. Port is within walking distance of city centre.
More economical for dealers to sell locally then have to ship them around the country.
This is complete rubbish. very few drugs are imported through dublin port in comparison to the rest of the country. Cork, West Cork in particular, has always been a big spot for importing. also Rosslare harbour would be another regularly used port.
the reason Dublin has always had such a big heroin problem is becuase back in the early eighties the Dunnes, who were a big criminal family at the time, were the first people ever to import heroin into ireland. and because they were based in inner city dublin, that is where the heroin was distributed. that led to the first generation of heroin addicts in ireland. a lot of the very old heroin addicts you see around dublin nowadays would have been from that era. and a lot of their kids would be the heroin addicts you see around town these days.
the dunnes would have been way ahead of their time and extremely ruthless, so a lot of the stories you hear, as unbelievable as they sound, are actually true. like dealing outside schools to get kids hooked, giving free samples out to get people to try it, getting girls who were strung out into debt to them so they could put them on the game, and throwing bags of gear into the letter boxes of houses belonging to junkies who were trying to get clean. nasty stuff like that.
they distributed in areas like crumlin, ballfermot, north and south inner city, etc and basically turned those areas into what you see today. luckily it stayed within dublin for decades and it is only in the recent years it has really hit the rest of the country. this is partly because dublin junkies started moving outside of dublin for various reasons, and with it they brought heroin which they could sell for a lot higher price in counties that didnt have a regular supply of it. once dealers from these counties saw a market for it they started importing it too so it became a regular fixture.Why Turkish delights?
Foil wrapping?
I haven't a clue so interested to know
any sweets with a good piece of tinfoil can be used to smoke it, so turkish, caramels, etc. there are actually very few left. the adjustable lighters are needed because you need a very low flame to smoke heroin, and a very high flame to cook it to inject.Interesting, I've heard of cafe's where you have to ask for vinegar for your table and they'll give it to you. And then remove it when you leave.
Something to do with junkies stealing the small bottles and use it for sterilizing needles.
Could be an urban myth, just something I was told once.
this is most likely urban myth.Heroin use leads to the following situation. See attached. Very common in Dublin, you don't get 'normal' lighting any more.
this lighting is useless anyway becuase any proper junky knows where their good veins are anyway so dark lighting isnt much of a problem. also a lot of jukies who are in a position that they need to use public toilets would be injecting into their groin so they use the same places each time so again the lighting isnt an issue.
but hey, it makes the restaurant or pub look like they are taking action.Pop's Diner wrote: »Actually I was curious. Does anyone here know of any heroin users who are functioning members of society? The stereotype definetly seems to be that every one of them are emaciated unemployed losers hanging around drinking their fanta orange and waiting to score their next hit. But I was wondering are there any users out there that, for example, hold down a job , pay rent, contribute to society etc?
YesIts not uncommon at all.
They usually call the tablets Napps(diomorphine) and they'll inject them quite happily when they cant score actual heroin.
Napps havent been available in a very long time. in fact most junkies these days wouldnt know what they were, except to have maybe heard about them from older generations. but they were very popular in their day. some junkies preferred them to heroin, and they cost the same as a bag of gear. but they werent diomorphine. i think you meant diamorphine which is a synthetic opiod very similar to heroin.
basically any tablets that are soluble can be and will be injected. dolmain would be a favourite, and any opiod that can be cooked up, like for instance oxycontin, codeine, etc. if it will dilute in water it will be injected.meboloxitis wrote: »Did you read the Brass Munkie magazine?
Here is one of the health warnings issued in the mag:
"THIS IS NOT A JOKE. DOG FLEA TABLETS HAVE ALSO BEEN SOLD
AS "BENZOS" AND A FEW PEOPLE HAVE BEEN RIPPED OFF WITH
THEM, SO AGAIN BE AWARE AND CAREFUL"
Woof Woof :eek:
they will sell anything they can get away with. and i mean anything. they were even selling warfarin as D10 valiums because they were the same size and colour. and warfarin is extremely dangerous if you dont know you are taking it. most junkies will take 10 or 20 D10 Valiums at one time, so to take that many warfarin could kill you. warfarin is basically rat poison that is given in very small doses to patients who have had blood clots. and i mean very small doses. so imagine what a handful of them would do to you.
they will also get benzos that are in capsules, empty the capsule and refill it with any white powdery substance, and then sell the refilled capsule. when i say they will try anything, i mean they will try ANYTHING.meboloxitis wrote: »Taken from issue of Brass Munkie magazine:
"ANA LIFFEY DRUGS PROJECT
WOMEN’S DROP IN ~ FRIDAY 10AM—12AM
A PLACE FOR WOMEN TO MEET EVERY FRIDAY MORNING FOR A CHAT AND A CUP OF TEA. IF YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN AND NEED A BIT OF COMPANY, OR EVEN JUST TO GET AWAY FROM "THE OTHER HALF" FOR A FEW HOURS COME ALONG.
CHILDREN ARE VERY WELCOME.
WE’RE AT 48 MIDDLE ABBEY STREET
(A BLUE DOOR ACROSS THE ROAD FROM THE BACK OF ARNOTTS)
WOMEN IN HOSTELS ARE PARTICULARLY WELCOME AS WE KNOW YOU REALLY NEED A BIT OF "YOU" TIME. THE WONDERFUL MIRANDA WILL TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOU
THE PROJECT HAS A DOCTOR WHO SITS ON WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON 2-4.THIS SERVICE IS OPEN TO BOTH MEN AND WOMEN AND IS FREE OF CHARGE TO ALL. NO MEDICAL CARD NECESSARY.
See you there."
And? this isnt just for drug addicts. this service is also for homeless people and battered wives. when they say hostel they dont only mean homeless hostel for junkies and alcoholics, they also mean the hostels where women and children who have been beaten up by their husbands go to hide out. so i think it is only fair they get somewhere to go for a cup of tea and they can bring their kids.
and for the drug adicts who do use it, the idea is to keep them clean and disease free, and to make sure they know how to inject properly and how to discard of their tools afterwards, so if some unsuspecting member of the public does come into contact with a discarded syringe it is less likely to be infected.I like the idea of a rural retreat with free heroin. What is the issue there anyway. We give methadone, which is a drug, so why not heroin?
The legal issue I can imagine is that someone dies on the State's watch, someone who would have died on the street anyway. That would cause more do-goodery and litigation.
tbh there are probably as many methadone overdoses are there are heoin overdoses. it is just as lethal if not more so because it is free and readily available.My name is URL wrote: »Methadone is supposedly even more addictive than heroin, the difference is side-effects. Still, I don't agree with using one addictive substance to replace another
it isnt that methadone is more addictive. it is that it is more difficult to get off and the withdrawals are that much more severe. with heroin the worst physical pain of withdrawal is over in about 5 days, but with methadone it could take a month or more, and in that time you can have seizures. there is a higher possibility of dying going through withdrawals of methadone than with heroin. most treatment facilities will not takie you if you are detoxing from methadone because they know how difficult it is.
botom line is it is nasty horrible dangerous stuff and shouldnt be inflicted on anyone. a lot of junkies who go on a methadone programme will end up going back on heroin just to get off methadone.No offence, but the Gardai have to filter out a lot of that, including requests for help from the public. If they didn't, they'd be nursing smackheads all day, every day. They can't do anything until an offence is commited.
I think prison is a total waste for petty drug offences, either withdraw social benefit payments for a given period of time, force a review of benefits, or do something unique, remove petty assets, if they have any, their shoes, stereo, Sky cable.. TV.. anything that they can feel a tangible sense of loss towards.
if you take their shoes they will steal yours. if you take their assets they will steal yours. and if you take their sky cable then they are more likely to be bored and to go out robbing. i think if we gave them all a free subscription to cable and free drugs we would never see them outdoors again, except to buy their lighters and turkish delight.I think attempting to shift treatment centres away from the city centre, and therefore the junkies, away from the city centre is essential. Why don't the gardai strike up a 'gentlemen's agreement' with dealers and addicts?
Let them do whatever they want in a designated wasteland area of Dublin, but if any are caught within a designated city limit, let's say the canals, they will get the **** kicked out of them along with having the law enforced to its absolute maximum when dealing with them.
a junky going trhough withdrawal will walk to the ends of the earth to get a fix. no matter how far away that treatment centre is, they will find a way of making it back to civilization to score gear.
regarding letting them do what they want in designated areas, well im not going to say that is the case, but... it kind of is the case. there are certain areas around dublin where you can openly score gear, morning, noon, or night. everyone knows it goes on and every junky knows where their local area is, but it never seems to be a problem. and if the junkies or dealers leave these certain areas or try to expand, the garda will pick them up and bring them back into their area. im not saying the gardai let it happen, but it happens. i reckon they think it is better confined to smaller areas they know of and that can be managed, than scattered all over the place and completely unmanagable.We have been seeing them there for 30 years and people haven't been motivated to do much about it yet. At least moving the centres out of the city centre would limit their ability to mug people, steal, etc.
this is how the likes of tallaght and west dublin got so bad in the first place. the council moving undesirables out of the city and housing them in the same housing estates. and before you know it they are joining together into gangs, and getting into gang wars with other areas. basically they become ghettos. this helps nobody.0 -
Nice post board om, I really enjoyed the early heroin history part.
I forgot to add this earlier, the vinegar (or anything with citric acid, lemon juice too) is used to cook or condition the heroin before injection. I used to hang around the arcades in town and the few times I had the misfortune of needing to use the toilets, vinegar sachets everywhere.
I actually think Dublin has got better. As late as the mid 1990's, you could not walk after dark in certain areas where I lived. The women ('working women') that needed and used the drugs weren't the problem with being out and about, it was the men delivering the drugs, who'd happily snatch something off you or just commit a good old fashioned mugging. Scooters, motorbikes, bikes mostly.0 -
Nice post board om, I really enjoyed the early heroin history part.
I forgot to add this earlier, the vinegar (or anything with citric acid, lemon juice too) is used to cook or condition the heroin before injection. I used to hang around the arcades in town and the few times I had the misfortune of needing to use the toilets, vinegar sachets everywhere.
I actually think Dublin has got better. As late as the mid 1990's, you could not walk after dark in certain areas where I lived. The women ('working women') that needed and used the drugs weren't the problem with being out and about, it was the men delivering the drugs, who'd happily snatch something off you or just commit a good old fashioned mugging. Scooters, motorbikes, bikes mostly.
Thanks Amalgam
yeah, the citric is to break down the gear for injection. there are 4 differnt types of heroin throughout the world and I think its mainly type 3 or 4 that we get in Ireland, i cant remember which. i know it mainly comes from afghanistan and turkey anyway. but this type wont cook up with just water so you need to add citric for it to cook. but you can also smoke the gear you get here. the stuff you get in the US can be cooked up without the need for citric, so with just water but it cant be smoke. well it can but you have to do some preperation first, so they pretty much dont bother.
anyway, nowadays they give out citric acid in the needle exchange or you can buy it in shops, but a few years ago it was a lot harder to come by so junkies used to use those gif lemons squuezy things, or oranges. but the problem was that using stuff like that ruins your veins, and i mean really ruins them. you couldnt pay me to use it. if you dont have proper citric then just smoke it cos along with the vein damage comes an unbelievable stinging pain that you wont forget in a hurry. also over time using the citric from lemon or oranges is supposed to damage your eyesight. someone i know used that gif squeezy lemon stuff that was about 2 years out of date and it was like his veins were glowing or something. you would swear he had injected radiation. i took my lesson from that so only ever use the citric sachet they give out in the needle exchange. even the sutff you can buy can be a bit iffy, so better to be safe than sorry.
i know what you mean about dublin in the nineties. i lived up by christchurch and you wouldnt walk around there at night. if you did you were nearly guaranteed to get mugged. or walking along the canal was like having a death wish. back then it wasnt unusual for someone to get mugged with a syringe but you dont hear about it as much anymore. i think robbing someone with a syringe is probably one of the most evil things someone could do. i would rather have a gun pulled on me.0 -
And do nothing about it but complain?The children born to addicts may be cause. No doubt, though, were we to take the children from the addicts, that too would generate controversy. We are doing nothing, because that is the easiest thing to do.
And if I were a politican I probably wouldnt change much either, public anger about junkies could easily change into a public anger about the treatment of junkies were we to get strincter - all it takes is a Joe Duffy show.0 -
whadabouchasir wrote: »Like I said this would just create Ghettos.I think it would probably be unconstitutional as well to force someone to move for no reason other than they do drugs.If they mug people then just arrest them and send them to prison otherwise live and let live.
You seem to be confusing the issue (or I am, Lol.) As far I understand the suggestion was to move the treatment centres out of the city center, not where drug-users live (their apartments, houses.) I don't see how this could create ghettos. By all means, the facilities should be there to help people get out of the poverty cycle (including drug use). But that should not mean we sit complacently by allowing drug addicts the opportunity to mug and intimidate people to fund their habit. Like asdasd said earlier what's the point in paying for amenities like the boardwalk if people are too afraid to walk down it?
''Live and let live'' is a fine notion for letting people practice their religion, listen to whatever music they want , etc,etc. It should not be used as an excuse to allow people to commit ''anti-social behavior'' ( I hate that term but it's the only way I can describe the junkie lifestyle). It would be great if using an illegal drug like heroin didn't cause huge crime and health problems problems but it does. If moving them out of innocent people's way ( not just reducing muggings and the like, but also maybe there would less dirty syringes and things about the place), then so be it.
Maybe if a child you know got pricked with a dirty needle, or someone you know got mugged by a heroin addict you would really see what's unconstituional and what's not. I hope such things never happen to you, but they do happen to other innocent people on a daily basis. I know who my sympathies lie with.0 -
this is how the likes of tallaght and west dublin got so bad in the first place. the council moving undesirables out of the city and housing them in the same housing estates. and before you know it they are joining together into gangs, and getting into gang wars with other areas. basically they become ghettos. this helps nobody.
Sorry, just saw your reply now. I didn't mean actually moving them to live out in the middle of nowhere, I just meant to move the actual treatment centres out of the city to reduce drug-related crime.
I don't see drug users as 'undesirables' (I'm not that snobby, LOL) I'm just trying to think of a way that would lessen the damage potentially caused to innocent people as a result of a their drug abuse (muggings, etc.) and also provide help for addicts.0 -
And do nothing about it but complain?
Um, yeah. What exactly are you doing other than complaining?
The reason politicans wont touch this is because the Irish public can turn on a dime. A sob story about a Garda being cruel to a junkie ( sinegle mom etc. pushes a few buttons) and we all get angry at the right wing politicans. The desire to moral one-upmandship is strong in our tribe.0 -
Some good posts there. Was just wondering how much a habit costs these days? Anyone have any idea?
Regarding living with a habit, I suppose if you could get a regular supply of pharmacutical grade Heroin you could go on for years. But you will get problems with collapsed veins etc as you progress. Problem is that the street stuff is usually cut with other chemicals that don't dissolve in the blood.
Of course living with a gear habit is all well and fine until you loose your job or something else goes wrong. Then it all begins to go pear shaped very quickly...0 -
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Very informative post board om. Any idea what can be done for the children of these addicts? For example if I see a child with a parent or parents who are obviously addicts and reported this to a Garda or Health Board, can they/will they do anything?Now, in Portugal where for the last 9 years heroine has been legal, they've been having a spectacular decline in the number of junkies
Wow, I can't imagine that improving the situation here, however I don't think it's something that would ever be introduced in Irealnd.Was just wondering how much a habit costs these days? Anyone have any idea?
Thankfully I havn't got a clue.0 -
That would be the last thing on a junkies mind, unfortunately.
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Out of intererst why would you say that, whilst sharing it not a thing of the past and of course Hep C rates at about 75% for IV users. Most I know are quite good around that now. The falling down part is around spoons and filters, people forget about that.
The vinegar is use to cook the heroin, it won't dilute with just water.
However, with the range of needle exchanges around today, there is not need for people outside of prison to share works. Such needle exchanges not only give out works and spikes, critic acid to cook the heroin [little need for vinegar now], disposal spoons as well as condoms. The also give out a very expensive tin foil for smoking now, as the stuff we cover our lunchs with or Turkish delights as metioned gave off toxic fumes when used to smoke heroin. Now they are planning to give out crack pipes in exchanges as well for the same reason as the foil:o0 -
The thing about drug addicts is that they just don't care. Their addiction is more than just mental, it is physical. They feel as if they may die if they don't get their fix and that could actually happen. All they want is their fix and nothing, absolutely nothing, will get get in their way.
Withdrawal from heroin will not kill anybody, its uncomfortable yes, but the reality is in most cases it can be compared to a really bad case of the flu. You know the type that will put you in bad for about a week. The rest is more of a withdrawal phobia.
However, in Dublin a large % are also using benzos, i.e. valium withdrawal here can be more problematic people can experience fits during withdrawal. However, you still won't call withdrawal fatal0 -
Marc Dazzling Show wrote: »Wow, I can't imagine that improving the situation here, however I don't think it's something that would ever be introduced in Irealnd.
A book I read - Devils Picnic I think it was - ran through a number of substances that were illegal or hugely inhibited in various countries - starts tamely by eating M&S poppy seed bagels in Malaysia I think.
Alcohol in one of the Scandinavian countries (where all off licences are state owned, and hugely expensive booze has lead to moonshine equivalent and ahuge alcohol problem)
through the jigs and the reels he goes, up for his marching powder in Bogota, or more precisely coco leaves, which the indigenous population imbibe without resorting to the much more damaging cocaine
and so the author leads to Heroin. I believe it was in Switerland, but it has been some years since I read the book.
Heroin is decriminalised, and provided free of charge to addicts as long as they use it in the clinic that it is provided to them. Needles available there and everything.
It has a few effects.
Steady, reliable and quality access to the drug means addicts are not dominated by their relationship to the substance. This allows them lead more productive lives, and makes them more likely to wean themselves off, as opposed to Anto who cannot get beyond his next fix. Fewer health problems, as the drug is delivered in a clean format.
There are a significant number of middle class heroin addicts in Ireland, who are not dominated by the drug to the same extent, because they have the money to sustain access.
Deglamourises the drug. Its use is confined to a sterile gray building. Greatly reduces exposure to the drug amongst the impressionable youth team - fewer people start on the drug.
Removes the market, drug gangs have far fewer people to sell to, as any converts are taken from them immediately. There is greatly reduced financial incentive to engage in drug import and sale.
book here - a good read0 -
Withdrawal from heroin will not kill anybody, its uncomfortable yes, but the reality is in most cases it can be compared to a really bad case of the flu.
I would class withdrawal from certain benzodiazepines as being worse, a much more aggressive experience, both mentally and physically.
(sorry, I replied before scrolling down to the end of your post)0 -
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Wow, that was great. Someone on AH who seems to know something about this type of thing, who'd have thought?Interesting and informed stuff.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Suboxone ( Buprenorphine) is used in Ireland for the management of opioid dependence? I've heard that it's more effective than methadone, but is a lot more expensive.
I'm pretty sure that you can die from withdrawal from some of the stronger benzos, though you're probably right about valium.However, in Dublin a large % are also using benzos, i.e. valium withdrawal here can be more problematic people can experience fits during withdrawal. However, you still won't call withdrawal fatal0 -
Wow, that was great. Someone on AH who seems to know something about this type of thing, who'd have thought?
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Suboxone ( Buprenorphine) is used in Ireland for the management of opioid dependence? I've heard that it's more effective than methadone, but is a lot more expensive.
Its used in a few cases only, most of the cases I hear of it being used is with clients on young person's programmes. However, methadone of Buprenorphine is a last restort with under 18s.
I honsetly don't think its more effective, just my opinion, but if a person is motivated to change their lifestyle they will regardsless of what substitute is used.0 -
Wow, that was great. Someone on AH who seems to know something about this type of thing, who'd have thought?
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Suboxone ( Buprenorphine) is used in Ireland for the management of opioid dependence? I've heard that it's more effective than methadone, but is a lot more expensive.
I'm pretty sure that you can die from withdrawal from some of the stronger benzos, though you're probably right about valium.
When you say stronger benzos are you thinking of Bards, a different class of drug all together.0 -
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Not Barbiturates, if that's what you mean. According to the Wikipedia page - which is quite comprehensive - death can occur occur from convulsions or catatonia.When you say stronger benzos are you thinking of Bards, a different class of drug all together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome0
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