The Sub 3 Support Thread

dukeraoul

paddybarry wrote: »

Thanks,
Should I incorporate PMP in the 20-22, 18-20 and the 16? Should I substitute the other long runs with an easy 13/14?

How many 18 plus runs have you done in the build up so far?

KielyUnusual

paddybarry wrote: »

Did the patented 5-4-3-2-1 yesterday. Wednesday and Sunday would be days I would do some long runs. I would incorporate some PMP miles into one of these.

Doing Rathfarnham 5k on Sunday so will miss my LSR this weekend. Normally do a Parkrun on a Saturday.

Im thinking of the following for the three weeks beginning monday 1st
Week 1:
Wednesday (20 miles with last 8 at PMP)
Sunday (21 LSR)

Week 2:
Wednesday (20 miles with last 8 at PMP)
Sunday (21 LSR)

Week 3:
Wednesday (15 miles with 8 at PMP)
Sunday (18 LSR)

Will do easy running other days (Parkrun on Saturday/Tempo 5k).

Anything I should do different?
Thanks.
PB

I think that might be a bit overkill on the long runs Paddy and you're likely to just burn yourself out for the day. Maybe something like the below might be a little more appropriate:

Week 1:
Wednesday (2 w/u, 8 at PMP, 2 w/d)
Sunday (22 LSR)

Week 2:
Wednesday (2 w/u, 11 at PMP, 2w/d)
Sunday (20 LSR)

Week 3:
Wednesday (2 w/u, 7 at PMP, 2 w/d)
Sunday (18 LSR)

How did the 5-4-3-2-1 session go? How long is it between end of week 3 and the marathon? I would say a minimum of 2 weeks would be required here.

ooter

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Tergat previously posted a great session:
2 miles easy
5-4-3-2-1 @marathon pace, with 2 mins rest
2 miles easy

Just to clarify,2 mins rest in between each sector,5-4-3-2-1?

Itziger

I copied and pasted this from the Tergat post. Hope he doesn't mind.

Over the next two weeks get in a mid week 'Long workout' e.g. 12-14 miles with 4*2 miles @ Marathon pace included in it.

Another workout could be:

1 mile easy, 5,4,3,2,1 mile at Marathon Pace, rest 2 minutes between each, 1 mile easy

OR

2-3 miles easy, 6*1 Mile @ HM Pace jog 2 mins rec, 2-3 miles easy

OR

2 miles easy, 3*5km @ Marathon Pace jog 2-3 mins rec, 2 miles easy

These workouts are specific to the Marathon and will help you a lot come 20 miles. Also keep your Long run at weekend and run very easy in between. So you have two key days for week. Have a big focus on recovery after and between workout days.

In the last three weeks, I suggest you do one mid-week workout that is a bit more speedy than your long run. The three key workouts I recommend in order of succession are as follows:

1) warm up 1-2 miles, run 4,3,2,1 mile at Marathon Pace (be realistic), rest 2-3 minutes between each, warm-down 1-2 miles

2) warm up 1-2 miles, run 5-6 x 1 mile at Lactate Threshold Pace, jog 1-2 minutes between each, warm-down 1-2 miles

3) warm up 1-2 miles, run 2 x 1 mile at 10k pace, jog 2 minutes between, 1-2 miles warm down

The key really is time on your feet. Getting your body used to the pounding it will take for 26.2 miles.

Just think 1-3 miles warm up and 1-3 miles warm down either side of a core workout using 10km, CV, HM, Marathon paces.

So you could do:
- 5-6*1 Mile @ 10k pace with 2 mins jog
- 6-8*1km CV reps with 90 secs jog
- 6-8*1 Mile HM reps with 2-3 mins jog
- 3-4*2 miles Marathon reps with 2 mins jog
- 4*3 miles Marathon pace reps with 2 mins jog
- 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1 miles @ Marathon pace with 2 mins jog
- 16-18 mile run with 3-4*5km included in it @ Marathon pace with 3 mins jog

paddybarry

dukeraoul wrote: »

How many 18 plus runs have you done in the build up so far?

At least 6.

paddybarry

KielyUnusual wrote: »

I think that might be a bit overkill on the long runs Paddy and you're likely to just burn yourself out for the day. Maybe something like the below might be a little more appropriate:

Week 1:
Wednesday (2 w/u, 8 at PMP, 2 w/d)
Sunday (22 LSR)

Week 2:
Wednesday (2 w/u, 11 at PMP, 2w/d)
Sunday (20 LSR)

Week 3:
Wednesday (2 w/u, 7 at PMP, 2 w/d)
Sunday (18 LSR)

How did the 5-4-3-2-1 session go? How long is it between end of week 3 and the marathon? I would say a minimum of 2 weeks would be required here.

Thanks KU,
My target pace was 6.35-6.40. I did a 2 mile w/u and c/d. I jogged the 2 minutes between each rep.

Rep 1 (6.37 m/m)
Rep 2 (6.37 m/m)
Rep 3 (6.35 m/m)
Rep 4 (6.32 m/m)
Rep 5 (6.30 m/m)

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/597936780s

dukeraoul

paddybarry wrote: »

At least 6.

Yeah your work is mostly done- I agree w/ KU's post there- the only caveat I'd add is maybe do one of those LSRs nice and slow. You're in fantastic shape but if I had to guess I reckon the "time on feet" for the full mara will come as a bit of a shock - what's your longest run time wise paddyb?

KielyUnusual

paddybarry wrote: »

Thanks KU,
My target pace was 6.35-6.40. I did a 2 mile w/u and c/d. I jogged the 2 minutes between each rep.

Rep 1 (6.37 m/m)
Rep 2 (6.37 m/m)
Rep 3 (6.35 m/m)
Rep 4 (6.32 m/m)
Rep 5 (6.30 m/m)

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/597936780s

That's great going and considering the amount of long runs you have completed, you should be well prepared to maintain that pace for the day. Just get a couple of solid weeks in now and taper it down for the 2 weeks leading up to the marathon. The majority of the work is done. Its just about being specific for the next few weeks and then ensuring you are fresh and recovered on the day by reducing the volume significantly over the final fortnight but trying to maintain a bit of the intensity as well.

KielyUnusual

dukeraoul wrote: »

Yeah your work is mostly done- I agree w/ KU's post there- the only caveat I'd add is maybe do one of those LSRs nice and slow. You're in fantastic shape but if I had to guess I reckon the "time on feet" for the full mara will come as a bit of a shock - what's your longest run time wise paddyb?

Was going to suggest the exact same too. Getting one of your long runs in or around the 3 hour mark is of great benefit. Maybe consider 22-23 miles at something a little above 8 minute mile pace.

Krusty_Clown

paddybarry wrote: »

Thanks KU,
My target pace was 6.35-6.40. I did a 2 mile w/u and c/d. I jogged the 2 minutes between each rep.

Rep 1 (6.37 m/m)
Rep 2 (6.37 m/m)
Rep 3 (6.35 m/m)
Rep 4 (6.32 m/m)
Rep 5 (6.30 m/m)

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/597936780s

That's a cracking session. I wish mine had gone as well. Great to see that you were able to pick up the pace for the later segments (though that shouldn't be a goal of the session). Given that your 18th mile was at 6:30 (well under your target pace), it suggests that you're in good shape from an endurance perspective (though as the lads pointed out, 20+ may be the unknown). Might be worth looking at some of Tergat's other workouts (as re-posted by Itziger above), should you be short of ideas.

paddybarry

dukeraoul wrote: »

Yeah your work is mostly done- I agree w/ KU's post there- the only caveat I'd add is maybe do one of those LSRs nice and slow. You're in fantastic shape but if I had to guess I reckon the "time on feet" for the full mara will come as a bit of a shock - what's your longest run time wise paddyb?

Longest run on feet was 2.38. Definitely want to get a proper LSR of at least 21 miles done next wee.

Netwerk Errer

What are you guys thoughts on a long run @MP 3 weeks out? I am doing The Human race 30k next week and am scheduled in for 30k @MP.

The most intense long run I have done is 20 with the last 5 @ MP and it was a depletion run. I have done 5 runs over 18 at this stage with two more to go, 20m with last 4 @MP and 30k @MP. The longest time on my feet is 2hr 52. Three runs of 16+ were depleted.

Would it be ok to run 30k at MP and then taper off?

dukeraoul

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

What are you guys thoughts on a long run @MP 3 weeks out? I am doing The Human race 30k next week and am scheduled in for 30k @MP.

The most intense long run I have done is 20 with the last 5 @ MP and it was a depletion run. I have done 5 runs over 18 at this stage with two more to go, 20m with last 4 @MP and 30k @MP. The longest time on my feet is 2hr 52. Three runs of 16+ were depleted.

Would it be ok to run 30k at MP and then taper off?

I wouldn't run 30k @ MP 3 weeks out. Hell I wouldn't run 30 k @ MP in a cycle full stop.

dublin runner

dukeraoul wrote: »

I wouldn't run 30k @ MP 3 weeks out. He'll I wouldn't run 30 k @ MP in a cycle full stop.

Was going to say the same thing. I ran almost 20 miles @MP last year before Dublin (Athlone 3/4). I really don't think it does you any favours.

A compromise may be using the first few miles as warm-up ones, easing yourself into the MP stuff.

Netwerk Errer

dukeraoul wrote: »

I wouldn't run 30k @ MP 3 weeks out. Hell I wouldn't run 30 k @ MP in a cycle full stop.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It seems a little aggressive. I talked to my coach about it and he said the effort levels would be the same as a half and I would be running only a little over 2 hours and it would give me a huge confidence boost.

Having my doubts.

Itziger

Anyone else on here ever do 30k (18.5 miles) @ MP? I've seen 15 miles mentioned a few times but never really anything longer. And just 3 weeks out, seems risky.

Krusty_Clown

Netwerk Errer wrote: »

Would it be ok to run 30k at MP and then taper off?

May as well just keep going for the remaining 12kms and get it over and done with!

ultrapercy

Itziger wrote: »

Anyone else on here ever do 30k (18.5 miles) @ MP? I've seen 15 miles mentioned a few times but never really anything longer. And just 3 weeks out, seems risky.

before Donadea 50k 2 years ago I did 21.5 miles at 5:55 pace 3 weeks before the race. That was marathon pace roughly but my pace in the 50k itself as a shade over 6 mins. So I suppose its close enough to 30k at mp in a marathon build up. I knew Id recover quickly from it tho. These things are individual and Id advise caution to someone else especially this close to race, not to myself tho that would be far too sensible.

ooter

5 mile tune up/all out run this morning,I was hitting better 1m splits last week at the back end of the HM so there's obviously still tiredness in the legs.one 7 min mile running up chesterfield ave was particularly worrying.
17 miler tomorrow which will be run very slooooow..

yaboya1

2:59:11 for me in Berlin yesterday

Netwerk Errer

First of all, a huge congrats to yaboya. Brilliant running!!

I had a 20 miler with the last 5 @ MP yesterday. Got a bit carried away with the last 5 and ended up averaging 6.39 instead of 6.52. I brought my ordinary watch instead of my garmin by accident(I don't function very well at 6am). Just a week left to the taper!!

Bahanaman

Nice "mistake" to be able to make at this stage! You're obviously in good shape.

loughie

Finally joined sub3 club.... 2:56:52 in Berlin!

ploughon

Well done loughie and yaboya1, fantastic running.

When your recovered enough to post your race reports they'd be greatly appreciated and eagerly awaited here...inspiration for DCM.

Congrats again.

WithCheesePlease

yaboya1 wrote: »

2:59:11 for me in Berlin yesterday

loughie wrote: »

Finally joined sub3 club.... 2:56:52 in Berlin!

I'm going to join the party and brag about my 2:59:58 in Berlin on Sunday too - I cut it nice and fine

ooter

Well done lads,great stuff.

Bahanaman

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

I'm going to join the party and brag about my 2:59:58 in Berlin on Sunday too - I cut it nice and fine

What was going through your head over the last stretch?! Must've been torture!

WithCheesePlease

Bahanaman wrote: »

What was going through your head over the last stretch?! Must've been torture!

Pretty much!! I felt like it was totally out of my hands and all I could do was keep moving as best I could and just hope I'd make it on time. I felt pretty comfortable up until about mile 24 and had paced it well but started to fade during the last 2 miles. Come the last few hundred meters I was suffering big time. I could see the line just ahead and knew I was close but I had no sprint left in me. It was pure stubbornness that got me over the line on time in the end

Calvin Johnson

Well done Cheesy but why was your target down at 3:08??

opus

WithCheesePlease wrote: »

I'm going to join the party and brag about my 2:59:58 in Berlin on Sunday too - I cut it nice and fine

That's fantastic, great result! There was me thinking getting 2:59:49 in Leipzig a few years back was cutting it fine