Auschwitz Museum Director Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax

Dr Strange

marcsignal wrote: »

ok this is a matter for the mods. I have drawn attention, and assume serious posters have done the same.


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I had a look and I think you are the only one who reported it so far. It has probably not reached the mods and is buried in all the other reported posts. I'd suggest that anyone who has a problem with the poster or posts to please report it in order to get the numbers up. I recommend this as a poster on here, not a mod.

ejmaztec

Mahatma coat wrote: »

OK, F*ck it I'll Bite

George Can you please explain the logistics of killing 'Four Million' People with an Olympic Swimming Pool?

How many people can you process in a day?
Does the pool have water in it?
Who takes the bodies out again?
Why specifically use Diving boards, why not just push them off the edge?
Whats the turnaround time on a wagon load of Untermenschen, From Gate to Grave?
What part did the SS Guards play in all this??
what if the person can swim??

also thats not an 'Olympic Sized' Swimming pool in that photo, Granted its a big pool, but its not 'Olympic'.

If this is true, or even if there happens to be any form of truth behind these allegations, why has no one ever mentioned it before now??


Also why do I feel that this thread is gonna finally depart from sanity into a trolling match between StormFront & GIYUS

Talking of "bite", I'm surprised that Mr Orwell's off the wall Pythonesque scribblings don't mention piranha fish.

A swimming pool was also built by Jewish inmates at Terezin, but that was purely for the Germans' recreation, and it wasn't Olympic size. If there were any pools built at any of the other camps/transit centres, it's more logical that they all served the same recreational function.

marcsignal

ejmaztec wrote: »

Talking of "bite", I'm surprised that Mr Orwell's off the wall Pythonesque scribblings don't mention piranha fish.

Exactly All I'm waiting for next are claims of 'alien abductions in Nazi ufo's', which might explain why Darth Vader had a German Helmet, and that he was in fact Hitler reincarnated :D

.

Dr Strange

marcsignal wrote: »

...which might explain why Darth Vader had a German Helmet, and that he was in fact Hitler reincarnated :D

.

[OFF-topic] But he changed and became a good guy again in the end!







Darth Vader that is....

Riamfada

George, while being a fan of most of your works I cant say Im as enamoured with your last seven additions to your litany of masterpieces.

One more of the ctrl&V and the blatant attempts to derail and troll on this thread and crazy font sizes and Ill be forced to ban you.

G

George Orwell

Glad to hear from you. I let off for a moment until you got your bearings back again and temperature cooled down. Try this remedy: Why curse the darkness when you can light a candle? Things are getting dark with this Iceland Volcanic stuff. A candle might help.

George Orwell

BACK RATHER SOON: Just as we can't blame the kids for believing the Trampoline Doctrine as those generating that belief are those who cherish the Commercial Holocaust Cult, so it is with the Fonts. Once you made an initial mistake with them, you can't alter it. Why blame the chicken for getting his head chopped off when it is the butcher who did it?

ejmaztec

George Orwell wrote: »

BACK RATHER SOON: Just as we can't blame the kids for believing the Trampoline Doctrine as those generating that belief are those who cherish the Commercial Holocaust Cult, so it is with the Fonts. Once you made an initial mistake with them, you can't alter it. Why blame the chicken for getting his head chopped off when it is the butcher who did it?

So, how are things in Room 101?

Riamfada

Okay well this has turned into a bit of a mess. As a result im locking this thread until further notice and a mod decsion can be made with other forum mods.

Riamfada

Okay thread re-opened. George banned for 3 weeks for blatant trolling & derailing a thread with nonsense.

Please lets get this back onto its original topic.

G

marcsignal

Thanks for your intervention Grimes, and apologies if I have come across as overly critical of the mods. I wasn't taking into account the amount of other threads you have to monitor, and the fact that you guys also have private lives to be getting along with.

While the thread has been closed, I've had the oppertunity to review some of my previous posts here, and I have come across some things I have written, that I feel need further clarification for those posters/readers who may not be as interested in, or have not studied WW2 and the Holocaust, as much as others.

In post #15 I made the following comments..

marcsignal wrote: »

The Russians destroyed the remaining 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz, not the retreating Germans.

It's very important for me to point out here, that in this instance, I am refering to the chamber buildings, and crematoria in Auschwitz 2 (Birkenau), and not the building in Auschwitz 1 mentioned in the OP, and that the above claim, specifically, is 'My Opinion' and not the generally accepted version of events.

I can expand on why I believe this is a possibility if anyone wants me to ? However, I am basing my opinion on aerial photographs, and the timeline between the last gassings that are believed to have taken place, the departure of the Nazis, and the arrival of the Russians at the camp. It is only fair for me to clarify this, as well as it being the responsible thing to do, so that posters/readers are not mislead.

marcsignal wrote: »

Why didn't they take detailed photographs of them beforehand, showing the hollow metal grid pillars that were 'supposedly' used to administer the Zyklon B canisters ?? There is no trace of these hollow metal pillars in the ruins..

I have been examining some good photos taken of the ruins of the buildings believed to be gas chambers in Auschwitz 2 (Birkenau). There is some metal debris left in some cases, but it is believed to be the remains of a crematory oven, and in most cases, metal reinforcing rods are visible. However I can't see any evidence of the infamous metal grid pillars in which the tins of Zyklon-B are believed to have been dropped. Have a look for yourself with the link provided, in case I'm missing something.

marcsignal wrote: »

The initial Russian claim that 4 million people died in Auschwitz is another example. A claim that in 1989 was reduced to 1.5million, by the Russians.

The claim was in fact reduced by the Polish, and not the Russians, as pointed out by Arthur PL later in the thread, thanks for that Arthur PL.

marcsignal wrote: »

Yes it did, it's just a question of degree, method, expediency, feasibility and historical accuracy. If you remove the Homicidal Gas Chambers, and accept the ever downwardly revised figures that keep coming out, the Holocaust 'could' boil down to mass shootings (which definitely did happen) good old fashioned localised pogroms, death through disease, kangaroo courts and shootings in camps for stealing etc, suicide, old age, and natural causes.

In mentioning 'Homicidal Gas Chambers' here, I am refering again only to the largest buildings believed to have been used as chambers (Kremas 2&3). These buildings (or depictions of these buildings) are often featured in Holocaust Movies/TV Series relating to Auschwitz, such as the 'War and Rememberance' series, and the movie 'The Grey Zone' where it was reenacted very graphically.

I believe they are often depicted solely because they are so large. Much focus is put on these buildings, because they fit in nicely with the belief that the Nazis had 'effecient assembly line killing factorys' going on there, complete with crematoria upstairs. I still believe questions need to be raised about the suitability of these buildings, specifically, for use as gas chambers.

It seems strange to me, that if the buildings Kremas 2&3, (the large underground chambers) were successfully in constant, efficient use, then why did the Nazis revert to designing smaller rooms, built above ground, when the other chambers, (Krema 4&5) were built later? It would suggest to me that maybe attempts to use Kremas 2&3 (Morgues for the crematoria above) as large capacity chambers, were not at all successful, or at least not as successful as we are led to believe.

In short, I believe this process was much slower, and far less efficient than is generally believed. However, having said that, I must stress, that it does not in any way, take away from the gravity of the crime, or lessen the guilt of the Nazis, just that, in my opinion, there is a possibility that there are still considerable historical inaccuracies, with regard to the status quo on these logistical specifics.

One must remember, and consider, that the Holocaust was brought into the political arena as soon as WW2 ended, by the Russians, and when you consider the recent revalations regarding Katyn, it shows how the truth can be, and often is, covered up, and/or exaggerated, and that as time passes, and geopolitics evolves, new evidence frequently comes to the table, making it necessary, in the interest of documented historical accuracy, to re-examine what we previously believed to be true.

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Fuinseog

One must remember, and consider, that the Holocaust was brought into the political arena as soon as WW2 ended, by the Russians, and when you consider the recent revalations regarding Katyn, it shows how the truth can be, and often is, covered up, and/or exaggerated, and that as time passes, and geopolitics evolves, new evidence frequently comes to the table, making it necessary, in the interest of documented historical accuracy, to re-examine what we previously believed to be true.

.[/QUOTE]

the death camps (viewed as British propaganda in this country at the time) caused shock waves in 1945 and 1946, but thereafter it was largely not discussed. Finkelstein et al would argue that only towards the end of the sixties was interest shown in the subject.

Tony EH

Depends what you mean by "death camp".

Belsen was the largest concentration camp discovered by the British at the end of the war. It was also in one of the worst states when the 11th Armoured entered the gates, with typhus running rampant. In fact, so prevalent and out of control was the typhus epidemic at the time, that 10.000 inmates (including guards) died after the British arrived.

A young David Dimbleby made the BBC report from the camp in 1945. This was shown to audiences in period newsreels.

For many, it would be a further 30 or 40 years before the name Auschwitz became synonymous with the holocaust. For many Britons of that era, Belsen was all they were aware of.

The "death camps" of Poland were far and distant objects and largely ignored by British propaganda at the time.

Morlar

Fuinseog wrote: »

Finkelstein et al would argue that only towards the end of the sixties was interest shown in the subject.

I don't think that assertion is Finkelstein's alone (if that is what you are trying to say ?). I would agree fully withi him on this subject. The 1950's 1960's into the mid 1970's were almost entirely a holocaust freezone. It was only with the rise of the pro-israel lobby that this came to the fore. There was one single rod steiger movie and a few paperback novels here and there throughout that period to my recollection. Look at it today in america, you go into a bookshop and there is a 'Crime' section a 'Horror' section and a 'holocaust' section (not shelf - section) there are that many books on this subject.

The world of american academia is tripping over itself on this subject, even in europe schools now have compulsory holocaust advisers and education packs etc. It is the single most promoted area of history in western education systems.

It is also the least openly debated one. In fact much of europe it is illegal to discuss this subject unless you are in 100% agreement with the official version.

At least I can think of no other subjects so rigorously promoted - (open to correction on that).

If you did a study of 5 - 25 yr olds in pretty much any european country or the states they will know about the holocaust but will probably have a hard time finding Iraq/Afghanistan on a map or even telling you which countries participated in WW2.

marcsignal

Tony EH wrote: »

Depends what you mean by "death camp".

Quite true, the distinction is very important.

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum acknowleges that only six of the Nazi camps were "death camps": Auschwitz, Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec, and Chelmno, all of which are in what is now Poland. Nevertheless, a few people still call all of the Nazi camps "death camps."

Interesting points about this, mentioned on This site.

Fuinseog

I studied at NUIG and did an arts degree(not history) and we were forced to take part in an inter disciplinary holocaust course.
it was more emotional than academic and if you did not dare disagree with the made to measure version of events.
A german professor was the worst in this regard.

i remember learning about Elie Wiesl and how he compared the German langauge to that of the devil. it is conveniently forgotten that leading Jews such as Einstein, Marx and Kafka had German as their native tongue. there was a debate in Germany recently if would be acceptable for the chancellor to addres sthe Israeli parliament in german


were bodies lying around these camps all the time or just when the REich was falling apart?

if the germans had won maybe they would have forced the Brits to go through the streets of Dresden to see the handiwork of the RAF.

marcsignal

Fuinseog wrote: »

were bodies lying around these camps all the time or just when the REich was falling apart?

It is widely documented that in the earlier period of its' existance, conditions in Belsen were not too bad (extra blankets in winter, no overcrowding, and 'reasonable' food rations), keeping in mind that it was a concentration camp.

I remember clearly 2 survivors of Belsen stating this quite catagorically in the 'Auschwitz, the Nazis, and the Final Solution' Documentary. However, later in the war, due to overcrowding, shortage of food, Typhus, and general neglect perpetrated by Kramer, the camp Kommandant, things deteriorated rapidly, resulting in the images we have all seen.

spurious wrote: »

There is also a small building in Auschwitz I which it is explained (to those who go on the tour, or who read the signs in three languages outside it) was not used as a gas chamber in the war, but was used as a storage area. The guides (and signs) clearly explain that this was not the 'regular' gas chamber.

I meant to make reference to this earlier spurious. This seems to be a new development, did you see that yourself on a recent visit ?

I wonder if this is now being acknowledged as a result of the Cole/Leucther findings ? if so, it certainly is interesting.

Tony EH

In the earlier part of its existence, Belsen was a PoW camp. It only became a concentration camp in 1943 in part and in whole in late 1944, when Josef Kramer was placed in command by the SS.

From late 1944 to the end of 1945, conditions as a whole became extremely tough across Germany and the (once) occupied areas. The situations in concentration camps suffered accordingly as sanitary conditions took a severe hit. Typhus, which before had been always a problem within the camps from 1943 onwards became chronic as the number of inmates soared. For instance, Belsen itself was designed to hold 10,000 people at most. By April 1945 there were over 60,000 people there.

marcsignal

Here are links to Part 6 and Part 7 of a video put together in 1987, by a guy from Northern Ireland called David Mc Calden.

These particular parts (6&7 of 10) deal specifically with the Crematorium & Gas Chamber in Auschwitz 1. Sadly, like the Tobin video the production is appalling, not to mention Mc Caldens dress sense :eek:, but it does illustrate some of the problems mentioned already in relation to whether this building could have ever actually been used as a gas chamber.

Mc Calden was victimized by opponents on 7 June 1989 when he was attacked and badly beaten at a meeting in Los Angeles. He claimed the man responsible for his attack was Irv Rubin, who also viciously threatened David Cole.

Morlar

marcsignal wrote: »

Here are links to Part 6 and Part 7 of a video put together in 1987, by a guy from Northern Ireland called David Mc Calden.

Have to say mr Calden's dress sense reminds me of the doonesbury cartoon of hunter S Thompson

There is some interesting anomalies in there alright, and mr rubin sounds like he was a real classy guy. It was curious seeing footage taken there from the time when the communists were in control in Poland, and the parts of the narration about how jewish groups were complaining that poles and partisans were the main focus of the commemorative effort seemed very out of place compared to how things are today.

marcsignal

Morlar wrote: »

The world of american academia is tripping over itself on this subject, even in europe schools now have compulsory holocaust advisers and education packs etc. It is the single most promoted area of history in western education systems.

I agree, and it really begs the question, what is/are the lesson(s) the schoolchildren are supposed to be learning?

(To quote "Dr. Gulie Ne'eman Arad")
What are the lessons of the Holocaust? 'Don't elect Hitler?' 'Don't kill 6 million Jews?'

because it seems to me that the true (in my opinion) 'lessons of the Holocaust', (the evils of persecution, racism, ethnic cleansing, coloniosation of land conquered during war, the expliotation of indigenous populations in conquered countries, the invasion of other countries to begin with, the bombing of civilians, using weapons and tactics forbidden by international law, the general breaching of international agreements such as the Geneva Convention, and I could go on), have been completely lost on quite a number of countries since the end of WW2. In some cases, within 10 years of the end of that war.

Are we to assume, that by the time the next generation of children, have grown into adulthood, and take on the responsibility of running this world, that there will be no more (or a substantial reduction in such) international abominations, as we see every day on our TV screens, as a result of 'Holocaust Awareness?'

For the sake of humanity, I really hope it does, but from where I'm looking, at the moment, things actually seem to be getting worse in this regard, not better.

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labelleseine7

You are a moron and a Holocaust denier. I am a little shocked that this website allows you to post your message of hate and uninformed comments. Specifically, no Jewish Sonderkommando killed Jews or other victims at Auschwitz or anywhere else. They were utilized exclusively to process the corpses of those killed in the gas chambers. The person who tossed Zyklon B cannisters into the gas chambers was ALWAYS an SS camp guard. This is confirmed by even a cursory reading of any standard reference, including "Anatomy of Auschwitz Death Camp", by Yisrael Gutman and Terence Des Pres, "Auschwitz", by Lawrence Rees, Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present", by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan Van Pelt, etc. Do not post these lies again on this site. I am forwarding your postings to the Centre Des Juives Contemporaines in Paris and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Be forewarned.

George Orwell

Dear Holocaust Denier:
Obs! Have you come to the right place? We are people involved with working for Free Speech and need no instructions by Governments, politicians, rabbis, clergy, churches, religionists, on either what that word means, or how to go about it. They are too busy lining their own pockets and feathering their own nests.
Shalom, peace, and pax to you. We all love you. Have a good day!
http://europeanhumanrights.com

Fuinseog

labelleseine7 wrote: »

You are a moron and a Holocaust denier. I am a little shocked that this website allows you to post your message of hate and uninformed comments. Specifically, no Jewish Sonderkommando killed Jews or other victims at Auschwitz or anywhere else. They were utilized exclusively to process the corpses of those killed in the gas chambers. The person who tossed Zyklon B cannisters into the gas chambers was ALWAYS an SS camp guard. This is confirmed by even a cursory reading of any standard reference, including "Anatomy of Auschwitz Death Camp", by Yisrael Gutman and Terence Des Pres, "Auschwitz", by Lawrence Rees, Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present", by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan Van Pelt, etc. Do not post these lies again on this site. I am forwarding your postings to the Centre Des Juives Contemporaines in Paris and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Be forewarned.

unless this is a gathering of the socialist workers party or anti fa we attack the post not the poster.calling people morons is not appreciated.

Fuinseog

This is confirmed by even a cursory reading of any standard reference, including "Anatomy of Auschwitz Death Camp", by Yisrael Gutman and Terence Des Pres, "Auschwitz", by Lawrence Rees, Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present", by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan Van Pelt, etc. Do not post these lies again on this site. I am forwarding your postings to the Centre Des Juives Contemporaines in Paris and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Be forewarned.[/QUOTE]


sure, if it is written in these books then it must be true.

xflyer

labelleseine, you shouldn't have resurrected this thread. You'll now get hit for an ad hominen attack and the people who perpetrate this nonsense get another shot at wheeling out their peculiar version of history. This whole military history forum has long being spoiled by the intervention of revisionists intent on rehabilitating the Nazis. They are very careful too, to avoid been accused of being anti semitic.

You honestly cannot mention any aspect of WW2 without one or other intervening and dragging it away into the version of history with Hitler as a misunderstood German patriot manipulated into invading most of Europe by a huge Zionist/Communist conspiracy.

The worst thing about them is the superficial plausibility of many of their points of view.

Really though, concentration camps were holiday camps for political prisoners.:rolleyes:

marcsignal

labelleseine7 wrote: »

You are a moron and a Holocaust denier. I am a little shocked that this website allows you to post your message of hate and uninformed comments. Specifically, no Jewish Sonderkommando killed Jews or other victims at Auschwitz or anywhere else. They were utilized exclusively to process the corpses of those killed in the gas chambers. The person who tossed Zyklon B cannisters into the gas chambers was ALWAYS an SS camp guard. This is confirmed by even a cursory reading of any standard reference, including "Anatomy of Auschwitz Death Camp", by Yisrael Gutman and Terence Des Pres, "Auschwitz", by Lawrence Rees, Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present", by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan Van Pelt, etc. Do not post these lies again on this site. I am forwarding your postings to the Centre Des Juives Contemporaines in Paris and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Be forewarned.

@ labelleseine see here for some of George Orwells Finer work

http://kim-freethoughts.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html

http://joy-thought.blogspot.com/2010/04/historical-enigmas-about-auschwitz.html

if you want to chat with him you'll find him at the email address in bold here

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&q=%22kimc%40asia.com%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22kimc%40asia.com%22&gs_rfai=&fp=4927714e6051804e

Do him a favour and try to convince him to undergoe some kind of psychiatric treatment.

Incidentally, when he says things like:

George Orwell wrote: »

Obs! Have you come to the right place? We are people involved with working for Free Speech .......

he is refering to himself, and perhaps the voices he hears in the grape sized ulcer located at the top of his spine, and NOT anyone else on this thread or forum.

xflyer

Yeah Marcsignal, it's only George who need psychiatric treatment.:(

citizen_p

xflyer wrote: »

labelleseine, you shouldn't have resurrected this thread. You'll now get hit for an ad hominen attack and the people who perpetrate this nonsense get another shot at wheeling out their peculiar version of history. This whole military history forum has long being spoiled by the intervention of revisionists intent on rehabilitating the Nazis. They are very careful too, to avoid been accused of being anti semitic.

You honestly cannot mention any aspect of WW2 without one or other intervening and dragging it away into the version of history with 1. Hitler as a misunderstood German patriot manipulated into invading most of Europe by a huge Zionist/Communist conspiracy.

The worst thing about them is the superficial plausibility of many of their points of view.

2. Really though, concentration camps were holiday camps for political prisoners.:rolleyes:

1. Hitler was seen as the ultimate patriot in germany tbh, he had a cult of personality around him ,right up until the invasion of russia. until then he had united two german speaking countries, took germany out of recession, got rid of the varseille treaty, regained land in czechoslovakia and poland lost in ww2 and had won a war against france (the old enemy, which germany and its former states had several wars against in the 19th/20th century). it was only later that the truth came to light about his ambitions and final solution.

2. in the early 30s thats how they were portrayed to the german people, there was an article in Berliner Illustrirte Zeitung (i think, obviously biased) about dachau in the early 30's , over time, the internment of jews, hitlers policys and the start of the war and Hitlers "final Solution being put in place, I would assume they got severly worse. extermination or death camps were began in 1942 in poland. theres a thread on this forum currently about the manufacturers of the cremitoriums.

just note there is a diffrence between concentration camps (slave labour etc... bad conditions) and death/extermination camps (liquidizing jewish and others, worst conditions)

wikipedia, but still ok wrote:

During the 20th century, the arbitrary internment of civilians by the state reached a climax with Nazi concentration camps (1933–1945). As a result, the term "concentration camp" carries many of the connotations of "death camp" or "extermination camp", and is sometimes used synonymously.
However, even Nazi concentration camps were not necessarily death camps. For example, some camps were sources of slave labor: the inmates were exploited rather than killed, although many were worked to death or killed for refusing to work.
Because of these negative connotations, the term "concentration camp", originally itself a euphemism, has been replaced by newer euphemisms such as internment camp, resettlement camp, and detention facility, regardless of the actual circumstances of these camps, which vary a great deal.

marcsignal

xflyer wrote: »

Yeah Marcsignal, it's only George who need psychiatric treatment.:(

there's a fine line between free speech and an acid casualty