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Auschwitz Museum Director Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
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07-07-2009 1:35am#1in a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin. What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive 1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.
http://www.rense.com/general53/aauz.htm
I knew all this already but now you have another person who's saying it.0
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old and debunked.polishpaddy wrote: »http://www.rense.com/general53/aauz.htm
I knew all this already but now you have another person who's saying it.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/p/piper.franciszek/press/daily.texan.10930 -
How is that debunked exactly ?
This Dr gave a video taped interview to a jewish student where they said that the gaschamber on public display in auschwitz was built postwar by the soviets.
You post the response from the Dr to the video. In the response to the interview the Dr in question gave this :
Cole maintains that I first time admitted the allegedly
unknown fact the Nazis adapted the crematorium in question in
which the gas chamber were located for air-raid shelter, the fact
allegedly unknown even for Museum guides. It is un truth. See
enclosed copies of pages from the books which constitute the
fundamental reading for Auschwitz guides. In book by T-an Sehn
"Concentrat Camp Ogwiqcim-Brzezinka (Auschwitz-Birkenau)Warsaw 1957,
You may read on the page 152-"In May 1944 the old Crematorium
I in the base camp was adapted for use as an air raid shelter
The Fact is also confirmed in the book by Jean Claude Pressac
"Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers,
published by The Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989 (515
Madison Avenue). On the page 157 you may read: "With part of the
building converted to an air raid shelter, this is the state in which
the SS abandoned Krematorium I in January 1945" Repeating what
Pressac had written I told what was the nature of the
adaptation works carried out by the Nazis and what one had to do to
remove those changes in order to regain the previous appearance.
That seems to confirm not debunk that they were in fact built by the soviets after the war.
This was also the testimony of some german soldiers who were russian prisoners and claimed to have been forced into carrying out the construction while in captivity after the war. From what I understand not just a crematoria but either one or 3 smoke towers also. In addition this was re-inforced by a Dr Cessari (director of the Wiener library (spelling?) who in an article in the Guardian confirmed they were in fact built in 1948. The article in question discussed the dilemna facing restorers of the site and the lack of original architecture. So in other words I do not think it's as straightforward as you make out.0 -
polishpaddy wrote: »http://www.rense.com/general53/aauz.htm
I knew all this already but now you have another person who's saying it.How is that debunked exactly ?
This Dr gave a video taped interview to a jewish student where they said that the gaschamber on public display in auschwitz was built postwar by the soviets.
that part is false. they were simply adapted to gas chambers, then returned to chamber state afterwards.no homicidal gassings took place in the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.0 -
I found this again on you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ0vAa5Vo2E&feature=PlayList&p=9F43CEC3EE810D14&index=0
like coles video it asks some interesting questions, and for some 'unknown' reason:rolleyes: you tube keep deleting it.
some parts are poorly done, and some of the comparison 'experiments' they do are, admittedly, not 'fair' comparisons in my opinion.
however, check it out before it disappears again0 -
Cheers - I had seen that before, the production quality is chronic but aside from that there is some useful information nevertheless. Particularly in part 3 & part 4 I thought.
PS like the sorbiror one I doubt time team will go within a mile of a former concentration camp ! You can just imagine the production team meeting and the deadly silence filling the room when some new intern suggests that one
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It was after Cole's video that the museum felt the need to put up signs clearly stating that the "gas chamber" was a 'reconstruction' and not the genuine article it had been passed off as for years.
A friend of mine visted Auschwitz in 1988 and was told that hundreds of thousands of people had been gassed in that building.0 -
It was after Cole's video that the museum felt the need to put up signs clearly stating that the "gas chamber" was a 'reconstruction' and not the genuine article it had been passed off as for years.
A friend of mine visted Auschwitz in 1988 and was told that hundreds of thousands of people had been gassed in that building.
I think there are a lot of things about that place that most people would not be aware of, including that auschwitz had an olympic sized swimming pool. I read that somewhere once and could not believe it, I remember googling it and finding out it was correct. I don't have the links at the moment but can probably check later (if no one else can find it).0 -
the point of this thread seems to imply is that stalin "fabricated" somehow the gas chambers
Surely he just made sure they were reconstructed - Christchurch Cathederal is reconstructed - HMS Victory is reconstucted lots of historical sites have been reconstructed at one stage or another. Look at New Grange or the Sphinx
The nazis blew up most of the gas chambers.
Cant imagine Stalin as a big Pal of Israel willing to "Fabricate" anything to help them
The holocaust happened
Deal with it...0 -
the point of this thread seems to imply is that stalin "fabricated" somehow the gas chambers
Surely he just made sure they were reconstructed - Christchurch Cathederal is reconstructed - HMS Victory is reconstucted lots of historical sites have been reconstructed at one stage or another. Look at New Grange or the Sphinx
The nazis blew up most of the gas chambers.
Cant imagine Stalin as a big Pal of Israel willing to "Fabricate" anything to help them
The holocaust happened
Deal with it...
Don't forget the communists were always top-heavy with jewish people (particularly commissars - hence the commisar order). As a result one of the first orders/decrees of the russian communist revolution was to supprss christianity while making anti-semitism punishable by death.
Stalin aside - I think trying to get some of the relevant facts right does not equate to 'not being able to deal with it' If anything the people 'not being able to deal with it' tend to be the ones who prefer zero discussion of this event in any context. Just my opinion.0 -
Fups sake get back to the Conpstipation tHEOIES FOUMN WILL YA!0
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Well have a look at Polishpaddys other posts - I think this belongs back in conspiracy theories to be honest where he started a similar thread
As for Stalin - why leave him aside - did he fabricate the gas chambers as is suggested - this is the fact that is being put forward
Why would he support the Jews - stalin was a long way from the revolution at the end of the war all religions were effectively supressed at that stage
So was Stalin fabricating the gas chambers and to what end ?
Interested in the replies....0 -
Well have a look at Polishpaddys other posts - I think this belongs back in conspiracy theories to be honest where he started a similar thread
You can look through this persons other posts - to be honest I have no intention of doing that.As for Stalin - why leave him aside - did he fabricate the gas chambers as is suggested - this is the fact that is being put forward
I suppose that is the point of this discussion isn't it ?
You are asking me to give a point blank/ definitive answer to a historical question on which it is practically illegal to have any kind of open discussion/debate of across europe ?
That is a bit of a tall order for 5:40pm on a random thursday.
In the sense of giving an informed, answer to that historical question arrived at after an informed, open debate ? Neither I nor you have all the details on that closed subject considering it is an issue on which it is illegal to openly debate across swathes of Europe. With that in mind I hold the right to reserve judgement on the finer details of this subject.
I suppose for the purposes of this thread it revolves around the difference between 'built' and 're-built'. I genuinely do not know the answer to that. I doubt you do either despite what you may think.Why would he support the Jews - stalin was a long way from the revolution at the end of the war all religions were effectively supressed at that stage
There are a lot of theories on that, probably too many to go into here without opening this thread up to a whole new direction. The more credible ones would be to speed up the de-nazification process. To divert attention and outcry from the considerable Soviet warcrimes etc.So was Stalin fabricating the gas chambers and to what end ?
Interested in the replies....
That is kind of covered above.0 -
I think there are a lot of things about that place that most people would not be aware of, including that auschwitz had an olympic sized swimming pool. I read that somewhere once and could not believe it, I remember googling it and finding out it was correct. I don't have the links at the moment but can probably check later (if no one else can find it).
That's not on the tour.0 -
Fups sake get back to the Conpstipation tHEOIES FOUMN WILL YA!
I don't see any problem with asking legitimate questions about this. If we just accepted these things, and others, then we (Irish people) would have to accept the British version of Bloody Sunday for example.
Questioning things is a principle i've lived by all my life, and I don't believe anyone has the right to say, what questions I can, and cannot ask, about the holocaust. In fact I believe it's extremely dangerous to give something a taboo status that forbids such questions. Ironically it's a rather 'Nazi' way of trying to stifle objective opinion. 'Thought Policing' if you will.As for Stalin - why leave him aside - did he fabricate the gas chambers as is suggested - this is the fact that is being put forward.........
Much of what we have been told about the Holocaust is born out of the period just after WW2, and cold war, generally. The Russians, and Stalin in particular, hated the Germans, and with good reason, their country had been destroyed, twice over, firstly in the German advances of 1941&42, and again in the German retreat of 1943-45. They had also lost approx 26 million people as a result.
The Americans, in order to stabilize the newly conqured Germany, had to get the country functioning again, and consequently, the first West German Government (apart from some window dressing, like Konrad Adenauer, who was an anti-fascist), was largely made up of former Nazis. These included doctors, legal people, petty bureaucrats, admin personnell, etc.
Stalin, hugely distrustful of the Western Allies, did everything to try to suggest that the Americans in particular, were now aligning themselves with former Nazis, and consequently was keen to highlight Nazi atrocities.
The Russians destroyed the remaining 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz, not the retreating Germans. Why didn't they take detailed photographs of them beforehand, showing the hollow metal grid pillars that were 'supposedly' used to administer the Zyklon B canisters ?? There is no trace of these hollow metal pillars in the ruins.Why would he support the Jews - stalin was a long way from the revolution at the end of the war all religions were effectively supressed at that stage.
So was Stalin fabricating the gas chambers and to what end ?
Interested in the replies....
Historians now generally accept that the Jews had a considerable hand in the rounding up and killing of Ukrainians by the Russians before the war, and that, as Morlar eludes, there was considerable Jewish influence in the Russian leadership, before the war. This certainly contributed to revenge atrocities carried out on Jews by the 14th SS Division Galicia, The Ukrainian Self Defence League, and The Nightingale Batallion, who were made up exclusively of Ukranian vollunteers, and heavily implicated in the supression of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising.
It's also not widely known, that that 14th SS Division 'Galicia' was shipped, in it's entirity, to England after the war, on the ok of, the then Prime Minister "Clement Attley", and that many of it's members were used by western secret service agencies, for covert cold war operations behind the Iron Curtain, because of their expertese in the language and local knowledge. Many of the members of this unit were heavily implicated in war crimes, and have never stood trial. In many provincial towns in the U.K. there are former members, or relatives of former members of this Division living peacefully today.
The initial Russian claim that 4 million people died in Auschwitz is another example. A claim that in 1989 was reduced to 1.5million, by the Russians. Where did the missing 2.5 million people go ? and how does it affect the 'generally accepted' figure of 6million ?? Even renound Holocaust expert Raul Hilberg, before his death, raised questions about the 6million figure, much to the anger of the Wiesenthal Centre, the ADL, and WJC.
Now there is absolutely no doubt, historically, idealogically, or otherwise, that the Nazis hated Jews, and that hundreds of thousands of Jews were singled out, rounded up and shot in pogroms all over Eastern Europe. There is plenty of newsreel showing this to be the case, particularlly the mass executions, and pograms by locals, in Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuainia.
The Typhus factor must also be given serious consideration, in terms of the death toll. There was an epidemic in Europe at the time.
As for homicidal gas chambers, well I hate to break the bad news, but the gas chamber in Dachau is a fake, constructed by the Americans after the war. I spent 8 months living down the road from the camp, and can tell you catagorically, there is a plaque on the entrance of the chamber saying so. This was not a surprise for me personally, because having 6 years, first hand experience, working with Hydrogen Cyanide Gas, it's the most unsuitable place for a chamber using Hydrogen Cyanide gas, unless you wanted to cause a gigantic explosion, killing prisoners, executees, and anyone else in the vacinity, because only a small room, without a gas tight door, seperates the gas chamber from the room containing the crematory ovens.
In short, explosive gas and naked flames are not good bedfellows.
This considered, i'm reluctant to believe, without further independent scientific scrutiny, the suitability of the Auchwitz gas chambers in Birkeneau, for gassing executions. How do you get a chemical that requires a tempreature of 25degreec C to give off the toxic gas, and work, in an underground structure in Poland, in the middle of November, where the tempreature can drop to -10C?
When I used Hydorgen Cyanide to Fumigate Grain Silos, Warehouses, Ships & Aircraft, we had to leave the chemical for 24hours to dissolve, and kill pests, and you couldn't smoke within 50mts of the building/ship/aircraft, for fear of explosion. Ventilation was also a huge problem, and took hours, fully masked up with a respirator, to complete safely.
This time factor considered, how did the Nazis gas hundreds of people every hour? and how did they ventilate the 'supposed' gas chamber in Auschwitz I without killing the SS guards in the surrounding barracks 30feet away? The only workers that would enter a room full of Hydrogen Cyanide to remove bodies after a gassing, would, in my opinion (having worked with this chemical), be 'kamakazi' workers, on a suicide mission themselves.
If you break the claims down logistically, scientifically, and mathemathically, there are holes large enough to sail a fully laden Aircraft Carrier through, and for that reason, I believe further, independent & apolitical investigation is necessary.The holocaust happened
Deal with it...
Yes it did, it's just a question of degree, method, expediency, feasibility and historical accuracy. If you remove the Homicidal Gas Chambers, and accept the ever downwardly revised figures that keep coming out, the Holocaust 'could' boil down to mass shootings (which definitely did happen) good old fashioned localised pogroms, death through disease, kangaroo courts and shootings in camps for stealing etc, suicide, old age, and natural causes.
The Mass Gassings are a better horror story though, aren't they? and let's be honest, there's no business quite like 'Shoah Business' is there ? Just ask the Jewish organisations who screwed the Swiss and German Banks for compensation, and didn't bother passing on that money to the survivors, but used it to build more Holocaust Memorial Museums all over the U.S. instead, where the event didn't even happen.
You often don't have to lie to decieve someone, you just don't have to tell them all of the facts, that's all. There's a difference.0 -
And nobody in the camps died from malnutrition ? And the hundreds of thousands of survivors / witnesses of the death camps are lying about the gas chambers ? And the evidence of the chemicals supplied and used in the camps was all fabricated? And I suppose the photos and newsreel images of some of the camps when they were liberated just show images of people on diets...maybe a bit thin you may say, but that was their own choice, I suppose you will say next. Shame on you.marcsignal wrote: »If you remove the Homicidal Gas Chambers, and accept the ever downwardly revised figures that keep coming out, the Holocaust 'could' boil down to mass shootings (which definitely did happen) good old fashioned localised pogroms, death through disease, kangaroo courts and shootings in camps for stealing etc, suicide, old age, and natural causes.0 -
Firstly, I'm not saying NOBODY was ever gassed in a concentration camp by the Nazis. I am simply questioning the numbers, and disputing whether Zyklon B was used to gas hundreds of thousands of people at Auschwitz, because given the evidence I cannot see how it was logistically possible. If anything, I'm actually looking for answers here.
The whole of Germany and the conquered territories were starving, and suffering from malnutrition. Most of the transport infrastructure had been destroyed by the last year of the war (farming, food production, transoprt etc.) What was left of the economy was geared towards arms production, and the majority of what little food was available was allocated to the front to feed soldiers. However you are right to add malnutrition to the list, omitting it from my previous post was simply an oversight.And nobody in the camps died from malnutrition ?
If there were hundreds of thousands of witnesses/survivors, then who exactly was gassed??? Look through the documentary evidence carefully and find me 1 witness that can say they SAW a mass gassing take place.And the hundreds of thousands of survivors / witnesses of the death camps are lying about the gas chambers ?
Zyklon B is a pestecide, it was used to kill Lice and Rats, and still is today. Lice and Rats spread Typhus, and the use of Zyklon B was ongoing in the camps for this purpose. It also leaves a blue staining on the wall surfaces of any structure it is repeatedly used in. There is no blue staining in the walls of the 'Gas Chamber' in Auschwitz I, nor is there any blue staining on the walls in what remains of the 'Gas Chamber' in Auschwitz II. If hundreds of thousands of people were gassed in these buildings there would be a coating of blue residue on the walls that would be VERY clearly visible, even today, because it permeates the pourus surface of concrete at mollecular level.And the evidence of the chemicals supplied and used in the camps was all fabricated?
Zyklon B will not work in tempratures under 25Degrees C. I have worked with this chemical for six years, and if you have a way to change the laws of Physics to make the chemical react in tempratures lower than that, I'd like to know what it is, because I'd be a millionaire presenting your technique to every Pest Control company on planet Earth. It would save them a fortune in time and effort, in the course of their daily work.
There is every possibility the Nazis tried using Zyklon B to gas people, but it is not a suitable chemical at all, for gassing executions. Even under the right conditions, it simply takes too long to work. They attempted to use it to gas Russian POWs in 1942, in the basement of Block 11 in Auschwitz I, and the fiasco ended in disaster.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v09/v09p193_Mattogno.html
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/atfg/
http://www.zundelsite.org/faurisson/articles/the_gas_chambers_of_auschwitz_appear_to_be_physically_inconceivable.htmlAnd I suppose the photos and newsreel images of some of the camps when they were liberated just show images of people on diets...maybe a bit thin you may say, but that was their own choice, I suppose you will say next. Shame on you.
Concentration Camps were not holiday camps, NOWHERE in anything I have ever posted ANYWHERE, did I infere that they were. They were brutal places where people died every day for the reasons I have already stated in my previous post. I am simply asserting that mass gassings of hundreds of thousands of people using Zyklon B, is logistically impossible given the timeline of the existance of the Auschwitz complex.
Here is an arial photograph of Auschwitz taken in August 1944. The Crematorium is located on the RHS. The chimney stacks can be clearly seen. Can you explain to me why there is no smoke coming out of them?? Surely if hundreds of thousands of people were being gassed and burned, they would be in use 24/7 and there would be a smoke plume visible somewhere.
There is evidence to suggest the Nazis used Carbon Monoxide Gas in other camps like Chelmno, Sobibor Treblinka and Majdanek, but the numbers were nothing like the numbers claimed, because again, it is not a suitable chemical for gassing executions, and the delivery systems used (Diesel Engines) were totally inefficent. The Nazis did kill disabled people with Carbon Monoxide gas from Gas Tanks before, and up to the early part of the war in the T4 Programme, that fact is documented. This programme had to be stopped because of objections from the Church and because of negative public outcry.
Finally, before you write me off as some Holocaust denier nut job, consider this.
Simon Wiesenthal before his death in 2005 put the number of remaining Holocaust survivors at 10 to 15'000. By the figures cited in their own claims alone, the World Jewish Congress (WJC) and the Anti Defamation League (ADL) who sought Holocaust compensation monies from the Swiss banks and German industrialists in the 90's, actually became the worlds leading Holocaust deniers themselves, by claiming the amount of money they said they were entitled to.
How ?
Well in order to claim the money, they had to claim there were all of these needy Holocaust survivors out there. The odd thing is, that since they began this shakedown (because that's what it was), the numbers of survivors, according to their figures, has gone UP. They have even claimed that by the year 2025, tens of thousands of Holocaust survivors will still be alive. Thats 90 years after the end of WW2. Now heres the tricky bit. If you start increasing the numbers of survivors, and you have an absolute number of population, the only way for that claim to stand up is to decrease the number of victims. If that's not Holocaust denial, I don't know what is ?
The reason they did this was simple, increasing the numbers of survivors would entitle them to claim more money, money they didn't even have the common decency to pass on to the actual number of survivors.
The money they have claimed to date has run into billions, and the average survivor was given $2'500 for their trouble........... Nice eh??
However, don't take my word for that, you can read all about it in the book 'The Holocaust Industry' by Jewish Professor "Norman Finkelstein"
Also, here is an interesting video link, examining the logistics about the subject, for your perusal. It's cheaply made and the editing is poor, but you can understand why Hollywood producers & directors weren't exactly queueing up to take the job on, can't you.0 -
Auchwitz (why don't they call it by its Polish name. i mean we don't say Danzig or Breslau anymore, do we?) has become something of a money spinning circus. A Jew called David Cole caused quite a stir when he made a documentary on the place and asked awkward questions. it can be seen on youtube.
To question anything on the ever changing made to measure version of events of auchwitz is it would appear rather dangerous.0 -
It was after Cole's video that the museum felt the need to put up signs clearly stating that the "gas chamber" was a 'reconstruction' and not the genuine article it had been passed off as for years.
A friend of mine visted Auschwitz in 1988 and was told that hundreds of thousands of people had been gassed in that building.
people were also gassed at Dachau also it never had any gas chambers.
why is it, with very few exceptions, that only the extreme right dare to question the holocaust?0 -
there is something not quite kosher about the shoah industry.
when "the Boy in the Striped Pyjamas' first came out it was marketed as a true story.
even Anne Frank's diary was heavily edited after the war. interestingly, she was at auchwitz, although auchwitz was an extermination camp. once you went there you were murdered. from there she was sent to belsen.
simon wiesnthal was at 11 different concentration camps.
i think i will write my memories of the holocuast. the fact that I was born 30 years after the war shouldn't get in the way.0 -
hats off Fuinseog
there are questions to be asked alright, and all I propose, is that we have the right to ask them..........
we're not living in Nazi Germany after all :pac:0 -
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Good old Hollywood! Where would we be without it?0
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Good old Hollywood! Where would we be without it?
I fully agree Hollywood have certainly made a meal out of this, but, again, I have to reitterate here, before the ADL or Mossad trace my IP, and burn my house down, with me in it.
I completely acknowledge that the Nazi mistreatment and persecution of Jews, Gypsies, the Disabled, Freemasons, Jehovas Witnesses, Homosexuals, Political Opponents, and anybody else they didn't like was ABSOLUTELY MORALLY WRONG, FULL STOP.
Kristallnacht, the burning of Synagogues, stealing and dispossesion of businesses and property, beatings, mass shootings, hangings, medical experiments, flogging, torture, working to death, pogroms, incarceration in concentration camps, splitting up of families, etc etc etc was ALL horrible, disgusting, abhorrent, inexcusable and WRONG, FULL STOP.
These FACTS are documented, and only an idiot or complete Anti-Semitic bastard would deny them, or try to justify them.
However, there is something 'not right' about some of the claims that have been made, they simply dont add up. Something smells dodgy here, and its not the smell of crushed almonds.
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when "the Boy in the Striped Pyjamas' first came out it was marketed as a true story.
This is a complete falsehood. Or maybe you can provide a reference to where the author, the publishers, the makers of the film version, or anyone else connected with this book claimed it was a true story?0 -
This is a complete falsehood. Or maybe you can provide a reference to where the author, the publishers, the makers of the film version, or anyone else connected with this book claimed it was a true story?
I had heard there was an issue about the way the book was marketed in the U.S. There was enough concern for Rabbi Benjamin Blech to write this article highlighting the ambiguity surrounding the launch of the book, because he was concerned the story would find its way into students theses who were studying the Holocaust.0 -
marcsignal wrote: »I had heard there was an issue about the way the book was marketed in the U.S..
As I asked Fuinseog, can you provide a reference please?marcsignal wrote: »There was enough concern for Rabbi Benjamin Blech to write this article highlighting the ambiguity surrounding the launch of the book, because he was concerned the story would find its way into students theses who were studying the Holocaust.
In the article you reference Rabbi Blech absolutely does not say the book claimed to be true - rather, he acknowledges the reverse:
John Boyne is to be commended for tackling a frightening story that needs to be told to teenagers today in The Boy in the Striped Pajamas -- a fictional account of the Nazi era that uses the powerful device of a tale told from the perspective of its nine year old hero. (my emphasis)
Blech is very critical - and rightly in my opinion - of the way the book distorts and sanitises the reality of Auschwitz. But that's a completely different point.0 -
In the article you reference Rabbi Blech absolutely does not say the book claimed to be true - rather, he acknowledges the reverse:
Hold the phone, I never claimed it was marketed as a 'True Story' I said there was 'concern' it could be 'misinterperted' as a true story, because of ambiguity surrounding the launch of the book.How should one react to a book that ostensibly seeks to inform while it so blatantly distorts? If it is meant as a way of understanding what actually happened -- and indeed for many students it will be the definitive and perhaps only Holocaust account to which they will be exposed0 -
marcsignal wrote: »I fully agree Hollywood have certainly made a meal out of this, but, again, I have to reitterate here, before the ADL or Mossad trace my IP, and burn my house down, with me in it.
I completely acknowledge that the Nazi mistreatment and persecution of Jews, Gypsies, the Disabled, Freemasons, Jehovas Witnesses, Homosexuals, Political Opponents, and anybody else they didn't like was ABSOLUTELY MORALLY WRONG, FULL STOP.
Kristallnacht, the burning of Synagogues, stealing and dispossesion of businesses and property, beatings, mass shootings, hangings, medical experiments, flogging, torture, working to death, pogroms, incarceration in concentration camps, splitting up of families, etc etc etc was ALL horrible, disgusting, abhorrent, inexcusable and WRONG, FULL STOP.
These FACTS are documented, and only an idiot or complete Anti-Semetic bastard would deny them, or try to justify them.
However, there is something 'not right' about some of the claims that have been made, they simply dont add up. Something smells dodgy here, and its not the smell of crushed almonds.
.
I think that there are things that don't add up. I remember reading on some website that the numbers didn't add up, for a start, although many critics would say that the statistics arrived at on the particular site, were not "kosher". If I can find the site, I'll post a link.
Someone had calculated the pre-war and post-war Jewish population of Europe, taking into account migration to Israel, the US etc etc, and came to the conclusion that there was no shortfall of anywhere close to 6 million. This figure was a Russian estimate based on their findings at Auschwitz. At the time, the rest of the allies had calculated two to three million, but went with the Russian estimate.
I probably posted something about this before, but consider that the Shoah experience wouldn't be anywhere near the vast commercial enterprise which it became.
I have a feeling that, since the war, it has been the only time during the last two thousand years, that 99% of people have felt sorry for the jews. In the past, they were tolerated, sometimes kept at a distance, exiled, or the victims of pogroms, but never sympathised with.
They can't be blamed for milking it, but they can be blamed for leaving many Jewish survivors in the lurch, by hanging onto the media, and other commercial spoils.
I've visited Terezin a couple of times, where after the war, a huge cross was erected as a memorial. Now, as well as the cross, there's an equally huge Star of David, and a number of Hebrew-speaking guides trailing tourists around the place. That place has housed all manner of prisoners, including Gavrilo Princip, Archduke Ferdinand's assassin. It also housed German prisoners at the end of WW2, not to mention political prisoners, anti-communists etc, since. The monopolising sticks out like a sore thumb.0 -
marcsignal wrote: »........Something smells dodgy here, and its not the smell of crushed almonds.
.
LOL
Read the whole thread just now and It's all new to me but very informative. God bless boards.ie0 -
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marcsignal wrote: »Hold the phone, I never claimed it was marketed as a 'True Story' I said there was 'concern' it could be 'misinterperted' as a true story, because of ambiguity surrounding the launch of the book.
There is no concern expressed in the article expressed in the article you reference about the "launch" or the "marketing" of the book. There is some robust and in my view deserved criticism of the book itself, but I repeat, that is a completely separate point.
As for Blech's claim that "indeed for many students it will be the definitive and perhaps only Holocaust account to which they will be exposed", well if that is the case, it's hardly John Boyne's fault. That's more a criticism of wilfully ignorant readers than Boyne and how anyone could take a book which is described on its title page as "a fable" as being factual is beyond me.I think that there are things that don't add up. I remember reading on some website that the numbers didn't add up, for a start . .
Someone had calculated the pre-war and post-war Jewish population of Europe, taking into account migration to Israel, the US etc etc, and came to the conclusion that there was no shortfall of anywhere close to 6 million . . .
Could you be a bit vaguer, by any chance?0
This discussion has been closed.
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