Photography

Anouilh

Hello from the Photography Forum.

There is a poll running at the moment on the subject of Women and Photography

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055606461

The results show that women are under represented when it comes to uploading photos there.

Are ladies less technical minded, as some posters suggest?

Macha

Firstly, I'd say you would have to look at the male:female ratio of users on boards in general and see if there's any differences between that and your Photography forum pole.

Linguo

I'm defo into technology and I love photography, hopefully will get the Canon 450d soon, got it for my bf and it's great! I have a good Nikon SLR and I have a camera for using on my telescope for astrophotography

Silverfish

I'd just like it if for once, it didn't come down to my gender.

First of all 'Girls don't play computer games' threads. Then 'Girls can't drive' threads. Then 'Girls don't like airsoft' threads.

Now I can't even take a picture without my gender coming into it.

Stop making a big deal out of it, its stupid childish and best left in the playground where ye learned it.

KarmaGarda

Ok, for me reading this post is completely different than that of the Photography forum and I'm quite disappointed. The topic has changed from "are there more male photograhers than female" to "Are ladies less technical minded."

Kind of strayed a bit from the original topic, but here's my opinion: I got the impression that most of the posters suggesting that "ladies are less technical" were in fact female posters.

BUT, some other posters suggested that Females were more creative than guys. How did it suddenly happen that the odd few posts directed in the opposite manner were isolated?

Anyway, came here looking for a good debate and was qutie disappointed to be honest.

kerash

I am a woman, my sister is a photographer and a technical whizz imo. I am not a photographer and technology is not my friend.
We are just different, imagine that! :eek:

Fajitas!

KarmaGarda wrote: »

Ok, for me reading this post is completely different than that of the Photography forum and I'm quite disappointed. The topic has changed from "are there more male photograhers than female" to "Are ladies less technical minded."

Kind of strayed a bit from the original topic, but here's my opinion: I got the impression that most of the posters suggesting that "ladies are less technical" were in fact female posters.

BUT, some other posters suggested that Females were more creative than guys. How did it suddenly happen that the odd few posts directed in the opposite manner were isolated?

Anyway, came here looking for a good debate and was qutie disappointed to be honest.

Linked over here from the Photography forum too, and just wanting to state this has nothing to do with "Are ladies less technical minded" and would have to say, it has nothing to do with that...

ztoical

taconnol wrote: »

Firstly, I'd say you would have to look at the male:female ratio of users on boards in general and see if there's any differences between that and your Photography forum pole.

I think this would have more to do with it then anything else. There's a higher number of male users on boards to start with so most of the forums have high numbers of male users, hell even this forum has alot of male posters. Better to check the ratio at photography courses if you want to look at numbers. Looking at the comics forum one could say very few women read or create comics but this past saturday there was a comic event in Dublin that was very evenly balanced between male and females both in people exhibiting and people attending. And if you want to look at %, the comic book degree course at the School of Visual Arts is around 55% female vs 45% male [SVA's photography course is pretty balanced between males and females]

AnCatDubh

Silverfish wrote: »

I'd just like it if for once, it didn't come down to my gender..........Now I can't even take a picture without my gender coming into it.

Stop making a big deal out of it, its stupid childish and best left in the playground where ye learned it.

Apologies in advance - me being the one who started the thread over on the photography forum. But I think the context of the thread hasn't been full explained as per the opening post. It really isn't as maybe has been portrayed - a male v female thing and hopefully more serious than what one could glean from a cursory glance.

The thread over on photography started when I read a piece from a greatly respected magnum photographer who was pondering on the question why was it that there was an apparent imbalance in his experience of the male to female photographers ratio - this in the context of his personal experience of giving workshops where invariably the female photographers come to the top of the heap in terms of their creativity and being at/creating the cutting edge. The guys pondering simply went on to suggest (again in his own experience at Magnum being maybe 10 to 1 male/female) that unfortunately this is slow to transcend into careers and those in the photography profession at the apparent top of their game. He was actually bemoaning the apparent loss of such talent (from the female gender).

Thereafter, the poll was simply to do a straw poll of the gender of those posting and reading the photography forum.

While the thread has wobbled a bit from the initial intended discussion I hope it's not perceived as a male v female thing (apologies, apologies, apologies, if it has).

Rhyme

My creative course in Dun Laoghaire is mostly girls, maybe a 3:2 ratio.

I teach a photography class at the weekends, a 2:1 ratio in favour of women.

There are a load of famous female photograhers (some of them are favourites of mine too) but there just happens to be more male. Same with there being more male professional photographers (again, from personal experience).

People can draw their own conclusions but with a obvious differences (as well the aforementioned examples like video games, airsoft) there has to be something in it, be it nature, nurture, inclination, interest, ability etc.

On Boards.ie, I'd side with their being more guys on the website than girls. Out in the big bad real world, who knows. Maybe someone can deliver some well thought out arguments as to why there is a difference without someone else jumping down their throats.

Anouilh

Debate is healthy.

Perhaps this could be an opportunity to invite posters here to join the Photography Forum and share some of their work?

WindSock

I'm interested in Photography. It is one of my favourite creative mediums (or media?) I love looking at other people pics and I love taking them, but for some reason I am a virtual stranger in the forum. I have my regular forums (or fora?) here on the site that I go to post in. I guess I come on here to write more than display/see pics.
In saying that though, I don't feel like I qualify to post in the forum as much, as I don't (yet) possess, or know my way around an SLR. But then again, I suppose it's more about the picture rather than the camera.
I wouldn't call myself a tech head but I think anyone can do anything with technology once they get decent instruction / take time to figure it out themselves.

Also, why don't female posters in the photography forum post in the LL much?

Curvy Vixen

Maybe 'girls' just don't feel the need to get validation and 'cyber-pats-on-the-back-my-balls-are-bigger-than-yours' for their photography :rolleyes:.

I am a technical genius and love any sort of technology and am more than able to upload photo's to anywhere I want to as well as 'photo-shop' them etc.

Just don't feel the need for 'peacock showing' them...:cool:

KarmaGarda

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Maybe 'girls' just don't feel the need to get validation and 'cyber-pats-on-the-back-my-balls-are-bigger-than-yours' for their photography :rolleyes:.

I am a technical genius and love any sort of technology and am more than able to upload photo's to anywhere I want to as well as 'photo-shop' them etc.

Just don't feel the need for 'peacock showing' them...:cool:

The reason I upload to these forums is quite the opposite to "peacock showing" them! I am new to this game, and I like advice. I'm here to learn how to be a better photographer. If I achieve that by throwing my balls on the table to see if they vastly outweigh my fellow boarders balls, then boards.ie has done it's job.

Fajitas!

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Maybe 'girls' just don't feel the need to get validation and 'cyber-pats-on-the-back-my-balls-are-bigger-than-yours' for their photography :rolleyes:.

I am a technical genius and love any sort of technology and am more than able to upload photo's to anywhere I want to as well as 'photo-shop' them etc.

Just don't feel the need for 'peacock showing' them...:cool:

But that's not what it's about 75% of the time, with something as visual as photography, the only way to learn from your mistakes, and show others techniques is to post your photographs, hence people asking for critical comments regarding their photographs.

The other 25% of the time, photography is something to be enjoyed and shown, yes, it's showing off, much the same as someone being good at painting, or having a nice car, or wearing nice clothes. If you can, why not. If someone else enjoys it, even better

Dragan

WindSock wrote: »

In saying that though, I don't feel like I qualify to post in the forum as much, as I don't (yet) possess, or know my way around an SLR. But then again, I suppose it's more about the picture rather than the camera.

When i started posting in the photography forum i had a Fuji point and shoot, don't let the whole idea's of needing to own an SLR to post put you off at all.

It's a great forum, i credit a lot of the improvements i have made in my photography to things i learned in there.

Seriously, give it a shot, it's my favourite forum on boards to be honest.

As for the question in the OP, my girlfriend is both more technically minded that me and also a better photographer, so go figure.

Interests are interests, and the things that dicate them have very little to do with gender. It's pretty much impossible to figure out what will peak the human interest and why...thinking it would have anything to do with gender is such a limited view when you look at the huge sphere of things that could possible manipulate such a thing.

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Maybe 'girls' just don't feel the need to get validation and 'cyber-pats-on-the-back-my-balls-are-bigger-than-yours' for their photography :rolleyes:.

I am a technical genius and love any sort of technology and am more than able to upload photo's to anywhere I want to as well as 'photo-shop' them etc.

Just don't feel the need for 'peacock showing' them...:cool:

I have to be honest and say i find that post to be as pointless as the question in the OP. I have never once gotten the impression in the Photography forum that people are "pea cock showing". The one thing i can honestly say about any regular in the Photography forum is that they have a strong desire to get better at their art. If you want to do that, you need feedback, you need critique and you need advice.

People like me are very lucky that a place like the Photography forum on boards even exists, it's one of the few Photogrpahy forums i have found where people are accepted regardless of gear, goals or ability....as long as they love photography. It's great.

I also don't see the problem with people be proud of having taken a good shot. I love showing off my work...I understand it's safer to keep all our creative efforts in the closet, but improvements comes from daring to show them off i think.

Also, I am pretty sure it's a "girl" who posted the OP?

Silverfish

Dragan wrote: »

Also, I am pretty sure it's a "girl" who posted the OP?

Yes, we were responding to the sentiments expressed in the post, rather than the gender of the poster, I would think.

Dragan

Silverfish wrote: »

Yes, we were responding to the sentiments expressed in the post, rather than the gender of the poster, I would think.

The person i had quoted implied "girls", then gave a reason why "girls" don't feel the need to post their shots, i was pointing out the irony with an easy refute as the OP themselves, someone who posts their own work ( which is very good might i add ) brought the point up, completely refuting the implied generality.

Or was i too subtle?

Silverfish

Perhaps, I assumed the new paragraph and the 'also' was an additional comment in general and not a part of the response to the quoted poster.

It wasn't clear, sorry.

Macha

Silverfish wrote: »

I'd just like it if for once, it didn't come down to my gender.

True.

Why don't they have a poll on what your religion/sexuality/ethnicity/age etc is? The perpetual obsession with comparing men to women does a lot of damage, IMO.

I really don't know why people get such a kick out of thinking they've found some amazing "fundamental difference" between men and women. I guess some people just like putting people into boxes.

Xiney

I'm a woman and I'm a photographer, I'm even going to be starting a photography business in the Fall.

I just don't like the boards.ie photography forum that much so I don't hang out there, and I hang out other places instead.

KarmaGarda

taconnol wrote: »

True.

Why don't they have a poll on what your religion/sexuality/ethnicity/age etc is? The perpetual obsession with comparing men to women does a lot of damage, IMO.

I really don't know why people get such a kick out of thinking they've found some amazing "fundamental difference" between men and women. I guess some people just like putting people into boxes.

Again, just plain rediculous. Have you actually read the post? It's nothing to do with finding a "fundamental difference" between male and female. The post is actually reffering to the loss of excellent female photographers later in careers, and suddenly it's become some a sexist poll. I honestly can't believe how much out of context this post has been taken, and exceptionally disappointed to be honest.

Jesus, you can't say bleedin boo these days and yer head is bitten off. I have sympathy for AnCatDubh for posting this now because you really have taken his very legitimate debate and turned it into some sexist BS.

Xiney

KarmaGarda, nobody was biting anybody's head off.

However, this is the Ladie's Lounge, and sometimes the community here gets annoyed at being treated like a focus group for "what women think of this". At least when it comes from people who don't post here normally, regardless of their sex.

Silverfish

No I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I completely disagree.

It was turned into sexist BS way before it was brought here, it's only when we defended ourselves or called it BS we were accused of 'turning it into' sexism.

It was there, we just pointed it out, and discussed it here.

KarmaGarda

Ok, well I'll gracefully step out of someone elses argument so. I've no idea who turned it into a sexist debate, maybe I'm just blind and can't see it!

It just annoys me when things are taken out of context such as the reason why the poll was posted in the first place. It was in fact a compliment to womens ability and how bad it is to lose that through whatever reason later in the career path. Then it somehow was insinuated somewhere that it was a comparison between men and women (not pointing any fingers! :pac: )

KarmaGarda

Silverfish wrote: »

No I'm sorry, but with all due respect, I completely disagree.

It was turned into sexist BS way before it was brought here, it's only when we defended ourselves or called it BS we were accused of 'turning it into' sexism.

It was there, we just pointed it out, and discussed it here.

I could quote a hell of a lot to go against this but I'll bite my tongue.

Can't pay ye a compliment these days eh!

kumate_champ07

i better not say anything here....

Jules

Karmagarda and kumate champ07 if you have nothing of value to add to the conversation please refrain from commenting at all.

Consider yourselves warned.

I'll be honest. I think the thread in the photography forum by AnCatDubh is well worded and is pretty quizitive. He wonders about the male/female population in regards to photography and general interest in the subject.


Anouilh ruined his/her post with the last, unnecessary line, where he/she referred to women as being less technically minded, which I don't think anyone really believes.


I'm pretty sure everyone over the age of 12 knows that men and women are different, but that doesn't mean that all men or women are the same.

Snowie

Fajitas! wrote: »

But that's not what it's about 75% of the time, with something as visual as photography, the only way to learn from your mistakes, and show others techniques is to post your photographs, hence people asking for critical comments regarding their photographs.

The other 25% of the time, photography is something to be enjoyed and shown, yes, it's showing off, much the same as someone being good at painting, or having a nice car, or wearing nice clothes. If you can, why not. If someone else enjoys it, even better

I agree, I do know one thing, my dad's been a professional photographer, for nearly 30 years. and at the grand old age of 65 he says hes still learning. He teaches a fair bit, He has more women on the course and generally the women are better then the men they want to learn new things and aarnt stubern where as the men are hung up on there own ways and dont really want to dent there pride...

what annoys me is amateurs farting about oh I've 5 lenses great. what happens if you see a shot you look through the few finder figure out You've got the wrong lense on or one you don't use very often do you risk the shot? or do they franticly dive in to there bag looking for the right one? Experience of hanging around cameras/photgrapher's more or less since I was 2 would say that really good photographers use on average one lenses and get better results why because they know their gear spending money on gear is futile a good camera a pack lunch pair of walking boots an idea of where your going and see where your path/weather/lighting takes you on that day is all thats needed...


tho I will say that women are just as good as men as photographer's I'l try find a link to my old land lady's web sight she worked in film as a still photographer... She tock pictures of famous people but to be honest i prefer natural dramatic lighting.

Curvy Vixen wrote: »

Maybe 'girls' just don't feel the need to get validation and 'cyber-pats-on-the-back-my-balls-are-bigger-than-yours' for their photography :rolleyes:.

I am a technical genius and love any sort of technology and am more than able to upload photo's to anywhere I want to as well as 'photo-shop' them etc.

Just don't feel the need for 'peacock showing' them...:cool:

to be fair, Photography's about taking picture's.... Picture's are meant to be seen.... Not good sitting in a dusty hard drive.

Curvy Vixen

Yeah I was probably being a bit facetious and a touch antagonistic in my post but as has already been said, the original question was a fair one but was there a need to add the 'are women less technically minded' question at the end?

I was merely offering another point of view as to why women, as a gender, maybe don't show off their work as much as men. I could have been really facetious and said that they were probably too busy doing housework and painting their nails to upload their photo's

Again, as has already been stated, why do we need so many questions that 'blame' the lack of something in the gender rather than query as to why specific people don't do the act in question.