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IMPORTANT INFO RE SWINE FLU
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MeatProduct wrote: »This is of serious concern. I was fortunate enough to have parents that didn't allow me to have vaccinations in school, I'm not sure that will be allowed now. I assume there will be some sort of mandatory vaccination policy for schools.
I long for the day when idiocy isn't lauded.
Couple of quick points for you..
1) You say drug companies are only interested in treating symptoms instead of curing people to increase their long term profitability - why do any vaccines exist in this case? Many vaccines require one dose for lifetime immunity against the specified diseases. This is a direct contradiction in your own posts.
2) If you still haven't received any vaccinations, I encourage you to live in south america, africa or asia for a year or two and see how much fun hepatitis A and a host of other diseases which have available vaccines can be.
3) I'd be interested to hear how many people in areas of the world where these pathogens are rife refuse to be vaccinated. Living in a society that has received mass vaccination and has decent hygiene standards is the only reason you're able to propose these ridiculous ideas in the first place.
I look forward to your inevitable ignoring or side-stepping of my post.0 -
I long for the day when idiocy isn't lauded.
Couple of quick points for you..
1) You say drug companies are only interested in treating symptoms instead of curing people to increase their long term profitability - why do any vaccines exist in this case? Many vaccines require one dose for lifetime immunity against the specified diseases. This is a direct contradiction in your own posts.
2) If you still haven't received any vaccinations, I encourage you to live in south america, africa or asia for a year or two and see how much fun hepatitis A and a host of other diseases which have available vaccines can be.
3) I'd be interested to hear how many people in areas of the world where these pathogens are rife refuse to be vaccinated. Living in a society that has received mass vaccination and has decent hygiene standards is the only reason you're able to propose these ridiculous ideas in the first place.
I look forward to your inevitable ignoring or side-stepping of my post.
Moriarty, I would appreciate if you accorded me the same respect I give to you, there is no need to say my posts are idiotic, it's not helpful to an open discussion. Presenting your own facts would be useful to this debate.
Presuming that I am going to ignore your points is somewhat offensive, what past actions have I done to you that would make you assume that?
You are clearly a skeptical person, however I do find that some skeptics are not skeptical about the automatically accepted norms since we have grown up with them, medicine being one of them.
To deal with the issues you have listed:
1: In some cases vaccinations are the only option some people have, so in this case they are of a benefit. We do have an over reliance on them. Some folks believe it is the only way of preventing certain diseases and this simply is not the case. The immune system is the most powerful line of defence we have, nothing compares with it. Disease can only get a foothold once the immune system is out of balance and this ultimately comes down to pH levels. If the pharma companies really wanted to solve problems they would advise on proper diet (where reasonable) and lifestyle.
Certainly there are times when a vaccination is necessary, in places where a proper nuitrition is not possible but please don't tell me the pharma companies are actually interested in health. They made large profits from vaccines whether or not they have side-affects on the patient.
2: Most people have hammered immune systems due to environmental toxicity and diet. Diet is the primary driver of immune weakness, it has a direct impact on how the body responds to an invading illness. We predominantly eat acidic foods which opens the door to picking up whatever diseases are floating around where you are. I would advise taking a vaccine for travelling to these places if a person is not willing to see to their own health responsibly through diet.
I have been to the places you listed, not for a year however, on average for 2 months in each location. Had I thought I was not in a healthy state I would have taken the vaccines.
3) Why would you think these ideas are ridiculous? I can only take you seriously if you have tried living a healthy lifestyle yourself and know of its benefits. I have not undertaken my own lifestyle for fun, I do it because I have experienced the benefits. Because of this I am presently undertaking a degree in nuitrition to further understand this and receive the proper qualification to make me an authority on the matter.
I suggest you put your energies into researching some of the basics of nutrition as you are obviously very motivated about these topics. Of course it takes a lot of effort and time to seriously take on board the responsibility for your own health, it's a significant lifestlye change.
Why is it that you believe that vaccinations are the only way? I'm curious, we are all brainwashed. We take what the folks with the money have to say about it as fact.
Nick0 -
Refusing Vaccination helps make it likely other people will die or be disabled. It's irresponsible.
When I was at school, it was long enough ago that there were some teachers and pupils crippled with polio.
Polio and Smallpox are very bad. But Rubella, Measles, TB, Mumps etc still kill or disable.
Lifestyle, nutrition, herbs or other natural remedies may help reduce or eliminate "infections" from fungus, yeasts, bacteria or amoeba/parasites. They won't help at all to stop you getting virus infection, though obviously in most cases if you are healthy you can cope with the virus better, or recover (most likely passing it on). Some viruses are more likely to kill you if you are very healthy with a strong immune system that is not primed for that invader.
There are good bacteria, fungus and and yeasts (the majority actually). There are no good viruses except some specialist Bacteriophages. Thre is no alternative to vaccine for viruses.
There is an alternative to Antibiotics, which is an arms race we are doomed to lose. This why it's very bad to put Antibiotics routinely into animal feed or take them unless really needed, unlike a vaccine which provokes your own body to protect you. A bred or engineered Bacteriophage is the only alternative to Antibiotics, but are very dangerous and could destory important useful bacteria. (Most bacteria unlike viruses are harmless or benign or even needed).
Anti-vaccine propaganda and conspiracy dates back to the first Vaccines due to prejudice and ignorance. It's one of the biggest barriers in the Developed world and Developing world to eradicating viral infections. Unlike antibiotics against bacteria which are possibly impossible to eradicate the bad ones, vaccination is proven to be able to eradicate viruses.0 -
I largely agree with you but I put diet first. When I mentioned reducing environmental toxicity earlier I didn't want to get into all the details of it but yes, those items you listed are all serious toxins that should be reduced.OK lets say we put peopl,e on your diet suggestions and we also feed them lethal doses of arsinic and lets see if your diet will save them from the Arsinic poisioning
Clearly no diet is gonna to work in the face of of serious poisioning.
derryn
Water is of a major concern and that is part of the diet. Having pure water is crucial for proper cell signalling to be ensured. Toxic/unclean water reduces efficiency of cell messaging and leads to reduced cell functionality and immune response. Actually, I would put water at the top of the list because of this.
You mentioned another dietry toxin, aspartame. Utterly toxic to the system, chemically breaking down to formaldehyde in the body. Aspartame is far more lethal than sugar to the body.
I agree, animal products are full of crap but that's only part of the problem. The main issue is animal protein itself. I have already presented a reference to the China Study that covers this. People who do not eat animal products are less prone to disease.
Please show me the evidence of the health of these natives you mention and proof of the amount of meat consumption they have. Unfortunately eskimos have the highest rates of Osteoporosis in the world. Why, the acidity in the food they are eating.
It's the effect of brain washing on the populace to think that we always ate meat. Our physiology is far closer to that of a herbivore than that of a carnivore. Carnivores can deal with meat efficiently and don't get the illnesses that we do from eating meat.
Rather than people refuting this without a scientific basis to it please read the links I have posted and then refute with other studies.
Nick0 -
Please post proof of this. I'd love to see how nutrition has such a small effect on disease/viral prevention. In a perfectly healthy system a virus cannot be activated. It can lie dormant, it can be in the body but cannot function unless it's environment is weak/succeptible.Lifestyle, nutrition, herbs or other natural remedies may help reduce or eliminate "infections" from fungus, yeasts, bacteria or amoeba/parasites. They won't help at all to stop you getting virus infection, though obviously in most cases if you are healthy you can cope with the virus better, or recover (most likely passing it on). Some viruses are more likely to kill you if you are very healthy with a strong immune system that is not primed for that invader.
Nick0 -
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I long for the day when idiocy isn't lauded.
A certain level of respect is expected in this forum - you've missed it by a longshot. Please take this on board.
MeatProduct wrote: »Moriarty, I would appreciate if you accorded me the same respect I give to you, there is no need to say my posts are idiotic, it's not helpful to an open discussion. Presenting your own facts would be useful to this debate.
Please use the report post function if you have an issue with a post rather than addressing the post.0 -
MeatProduct wrote: »Please post proof of this. I'd love to see how nutrition has such a small effect on disease/viral prevention. In a perfectly healthy system a virus cannot be activated. It can lie dormant, it can be in the body but cannot function unless it's environment is weak/succeptible.
Nick
That's just not true.
The healthier you are the more effective your immune system is.
But the virus is still there and very much active.
It's virology 101.
Can you provide any support for your claims?0 -
It seems to me that the most important thing to know about Swine Flu is that not a huge amount of healthy people have died from it and that there has been massive media hysteria around it which is causing people to panic.
Overall most people seem to recover, so maybe we should look at it as not being akin to an outbreak of Ebola and perhaps calm down and view it rationally.0 -
Stop the train.MeatProduct wrote: »1: In some cases vaccinations are the only option some people have, so in this case they are of a benefit. We do have an over reliance on them. Some folks believe it is the only way of preventing certain diseases and this simply is not the case. The immune system is the most powerful line of defence we have, nothing compares with it. Disease can only get a foothold once the immune system is out of balance and this ultimately comes down to pH levels. If the pharma companies really wanted to solve problems they would advise on proper diet (where reasonable) and lifestyle.
Certainly there are times when a vaccination is necessary, in places where a proper nuitrition is not possible but please don't tell me the pharma companies are actually interested in health. They made large profits from vaccines whether or not they have side-affects on the patient.
Do you know how vaccinations actually work?
Cause from this point I don't think you do.
Or how the immune system works for that matter.
Oh and doctors always recommend eating right and getting excerise.0 -
1) Viruses are specific to particular hosts. Humans won't catch a tomato plant virus. Pigs are a lot more similar to people, so some viruses can cross over.MeatProduct wrote: »Please post proof of this. I'd love to see how nutrition has such a small effect on disease/viral prevention. In a perfectly healthy system a virus cannot be activated. It can lie dormant, it can be in the body but cannot function unless it's environment is weak/susceptible.
Nick
2) If you are a suitable host the virus is not dormant.
a) Your immune system wins and it is killed
b) it partially bypasses the immune system. The result depends on type of virus and your health. Result can be low level infection wearing you down and you are likely to get a secondary infection from a bacteria that can kill you. Result can be cancer. Or result can be slow wasting away. You will be a carrier that infects others who could die (Viral hepatitus ).
c) it entirely defeats your immune system. There is no treatment. You will likely die.
d) Your immune system over-reacts. Most likely with very healthy young people. Your immune system may kill you.
a) Is the likely scenario if you have a vaccine, but can happen without a vaccine.
Without a vaccine, scenario b, c or d is likely. If you recover because the virus is killed by your immune system (the only way to recover, generally), then you are probably immune in the future to the same virus and your blood can be used to develop a vaccine.
If you are a compatible host, the ONLY protection is your immune system killing the virus.
Being healthy means you are more likely to have the reserves to survive till your immune system "tunes in" to the virus and kills it. The likelihood of survival is depending on the virulence of the virus, how good an Immune system you have (many factors, genetics and viral background more important than absolute health). People don't die of some things anymore because all the genetically weak (to that virus or bacteria) people are dead.
There are some viruses that are quite likely to kill you or make you very ill (high % mortality) no matter how healthy you are.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus
Viral infections, fungus, parasites, Bacterial or yeast infections should not be confused.
Viruses are either infectious or not. If they are, they replicate using the host cells and destroy them. Most bacterial infections are harmless, some of the dangerous ones, it's actually the effluent of the bacteria that is a chemical poison.
Due to HIV, in the last 20 years the only alternative to Vaccines is the development of Anti-viral drugs that inhibit the DNA replication of Virus. HIV is not generally responsive to vaccine, though some people constantly exposed develop immunity, on reversion to occasional exposure they lose the immunity and can become infected thus illustrating a vaccine won't work. Anti-viral drugs are very much less effective than vaccines, where a vaccine can be developed.
Some vaccines are dangerous, killing a lot of people. These have only been used where the real virus would kill even more people. This is why the smallpox vaccine is no longer administered as it is dangerous. But because the vaccine was used, smallpox has been eradicated. The vast majority of vaccines cause either no reaction or a mild reaction.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polio0 -
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http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0731/swineflu.htmlIn Ireland, the Department of Health's Chief Medical officer, Dr Tony Holohan, said Ireland will not be recommending people have the vaccine unless the balance of risk and benefit is in favour of someone getting it.Dr Holohan the vaccine may be licensed first for some sections of the population before it is permitted to be given to the wider population.
'We will not be recommending the use of an unsafe vaccine', Dr Holohan said.
The exact licensing arrangements are expected to become clearer in the autumn and closer monitoring of the vaccine is also likely after it has first been given to certain groups.
The Lancet says some fear a repeat of the 1976 H1N1 outbreak in the US where mass vaccination was associated with complications, which stopped the campaign and led to the withdrawal of the vaccine.
As a result it says vaccine safety will have to be monitored through post-marketing surveillance.0 -
I imagine Holaban is first on the WHOs execution list. :rolleyes:0 -
Source: www.theflucase.com
Top Swedish regulator slams serious side effects of the swine flu
Professor Jan Liliemark of Läkemedelsverket, the Swedish government body that regulates the country's pharmaceutical industry and the equivalent to the FDA in the USA, said that the swine flu vaccine could have serious side effects, according to a report in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet
"There are some unusual side effects which influence the nervous system. It can result in problems with sensing or paralysis," he said.
Liliemark said 1 out of 10 000 to 100 000 could suffer serious side effects, which include death. If everyone in Sweden were to take the vaccine, it could result in over 900 such cases.
According to the report, Sweden is to use a vaccine manufactured by Baxter called Celvapan A/H1N1.
Link to article (in Swedish): http://www.aftonbladet.se/kropphalsa/article5656845.ab0 -
Source: www.theflucase.com
Mainstream Belgium newspaper talks about rumours of "global genocide under the pretext of a pandemic"
A leading Belgium newspaper has reported on the criminal charges filed in Austria by Jane Burgermeister and subsequently in France, Ireland, the UK, the Netherland and Sweden by others, over the WHO and Baxtrer swine flu pandemic hoax.
The newspaper refers to "foolish rumours" circulating on the internet that there is an ambition to trigger a "global genocide under cover of a pandemic."
The newspaper omits to mention that the Austrian police are investigating the "charges filed in Austria" over Baxter's contamination of 72 kilos of vaccine material with live bird flu virus provided by WHO, which nearly triggered a global pandemic.
In view of the fact that Baxter uses biosafely level 3 regulations in its biomedical facilities in Orth an der Donau, the contamination and distribution of such material strongly suggests criminal intent.
According to the report in LeSoir, the Belgium authorities have "never envisaged forced vaccinations", a statement that does not quite ring true since the Belgium Health Minister Laurette Onkelinx recently passed a special emergency decree allowing the police to be "requistioned" to implement forced vaccinations. The laws for forced vaccinations are, therefore, in place even if they have not yet been activated.
Also, under the Belgium pandemic prepardeness plan of 2006, WHO takes control of key Belgium health and security services in the event of a pandemic and can order forced vaccinations and quarantines as part of its powers under the International Health Regulations 2005.
http://www.influenza.be/eng/documents/Flu_Plan.pdf
"Belgium s key partner for human health is therefore the World Health Organisat ionFPS for Public Health, Food Chain Safety and the Environment," says the plan.
(WHO) under the terms of the International Health Regulations.
As regards public health, informat ion is t ransferred to WHO through the Nat ional Focal
Point , which is responsible for set t ing in place an operat ional link between the count ry
and WHO with reference to the I nternat ional Health Regulat ions. I t must be available
round the clock to communicate with the WHO IHR Contact Points. The Belgian focal
point for this aspect is the ICM department ( Incident and Crisis Management ) of the
Here is the report in Lesoir:
http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/sciences_sante/2009-08-18/grippe-h1n1-7-questions-723491.shtml0 -
Top Swedish regulator slams serious side effects of the swine flu
Professor Jan Liliemark of Läkemedelsverket, the Swedish government body that regulates the country's pharmaceutical industry and the equivalent to the FDA in the USA, said that the swine flu vaccine could have serious side effects, according to a report in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet
"There are some unusual side effects which influence the nervous system. It can result in problems with sensing or paralysis," he said.
Liliemark said 1 out of 10 000 to 100 000 could suffer serious side effects, which include death. If everyone in Sweden were to take the vaccine, it could result in over 900 such cases.
According to the report, Sweden is to use a vaccine manufactured by Baxter called Celvapan A/H1N1.
Link to article (in Swedish): http://www.aftonbladet.se/kropphalsa/article5656845.ab
Samson09, if you're going to copy and paste a story from somewhere, provide the source:
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=380%3Atop-swedish-regulator-slams-serious-side-effects-of-the-swine-flu&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
On first glance, aftonbladet.se doesn't look like the most reputable of news sources.0 -
Samson09, if you're going to copy and paste a story from somewhere, provide the source:
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=380%3Atop-swedish-regulator-slams-serious-side-effects-of-the-swine-flu&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64&lang=en
On first glance, aftonbladet.se doesn't look like the most reputable of news sources.
Edited post to include additional source, even though original source was included. In my opinion, advice given by Läkemedelsverket, the Swedish government body that regulates the country's pharmaceutical industry and the equivalent to the FDA in the USA, could be considered by some to be a "reputable" source.
Additionally, just so you know:
"Aftonbladet (Swedish for The Evening Sheet) is a Swedish tabloid founded by Lars Johan Hierta in 1830 during the modernization of Sweden. Today the newspaper labels itself as independent Social Democrat and is the largest daily newspaper in Nordic countries (according to Tidningsstatistik AB, a Swedish statistics company). Aftonbladet is owned by the Swedish Trade Union Confederation (LO) and Norwegian media group Schibsted. In 2006 the paper had 1,425,000 daily readers (Orvesto research 2005:2), circa 15% of the Swedish population"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftonbladet
When did you get into the habit of back seat modding Moriarty? Nothing better to do with your time?0 -
It's nothing to do with modding, everything to do with providing sources. The swedish equivalent of The Sun isn't the most reliable source. It's just a pity the source is all in swedish and my brief search hasn't thrown up anything else about the issue other than references to that aftonbladet article.0
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Liliemark said 1 out of 10 000 to 100 000 could suffer serious side effects, which include death. If everyone in Sweden were to take the vaccine, it could result in over 900 such cases.
Lets assume, for a moment, that he's correct.
The current mortality rate, IIRC, for flu, is approximately 1 in 1,000...thats ten time higher than the rate of "serious side effects" of vaccination.
So, if no-one got vaccinated, and 10% of the population got the flu, we'd have about the same number dead as we would have suffering "serious side effects" or death under vaccination.
If the figure is closed to the one in 100,000, then 1% of the population catching the flu would be sufficient to result in that many deaths.
Again, from memory, roughtly one in 300 people who catch the flu required admittance to ICU, having developed serious side-effects. So, that would mean that between 3% and .3% of the population catching flu would result in the same number of "serious side effects", with approximately 1/3 of those being fatalities in the case of flu.
This, ultimately, is why governments are concerned. In a pandemic situation, the infection rates can soar. Imagine if 30% of the population caught the flu. Then, even if it turned out to be a very mild strain, with fatalities and complications a whole order of magnitude less than expected, it would still be as bad or worse then the worse-cast scenario for a vaccination program.
Its easy to point fingers at Big Pharma, at governments, at whoever you like for endangering lives...but seriously...who here would be willing to stake the lives of who-knows-how-many people based on their best guess as to how infetious, how transmissible and how serious a strain of flu this will turn out to be.
Sure...we can talk big talk and say "oh, it'll be mild, and its infection rates are overblown", but you know what....talk is cheap here. Your best guess won't risk condemning thousands to death.0 -
Lets assume, for a moment, that he's correct.
The current mortality rate, IIRC, for flu, is approximately 1 in 1,000...thats ten time higher than the rate of "serious side effects" of vaccination.
So, if no-one got vaccinated, and 10% of the population got the flu, we'd have about the same number dead as we would have suffering "serious side effects" or death under vaccination.
If the figure is closed to the one in 100,000, then 1% of the population catching the flu would be sufficient to result in that many deaths.
Again, from memory, roughtly one in 300 people who catch the flu required admittance to ICU, having developed serious side-effects. So, that would mean that between 3% and .3% of the population catching flu would result in the same number of "serious side effects", with approximately 1/3 of those being fatalities in the case of flu.
This, ultimately, is why governments are concerned. In a pandemic situation, the infection rates can soar. Imagine if 30% of the population caught the flu. Then, even if it turned out to be a very mild strain, with fatalities and complications a whole order of magnitude less than expected, it would still be as bad or worse then the worse-cast scenario for a vaccination program.
Its easy to point fingers at Big Pharma, at governments, at whoever you like for endangering lives...but seriously...who here would be willing to stake the lives of who-knows-how-many people based on their best guess as to how infetious, how transmissible and how serious a strain of flu this will turn out to be.
Sure...we can talk big talk and say "oh, it'll be mild, and its infection rates are overblown", but you know what....talk is cheap here. Your best guess won't risk condemning thousands to death.
I think the risk posed by the swine flu has been hyped up beyond belief. The mortality rate is still relatively low and unless a mutation occurs in the virus it will "probably" remain low. People forget about the regular flu, which kills a lot more people annually, but we dont get the same scaremongering from the press about it.
From CNN (first page on Google so not sure about accuracy but correct me if Im wrong):
Worldwide, the annual death toll from the flu is estimated to be between 250,000 and 500,000.
Since January, more than 13,000 people have died of complications from seasonal flu, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's weekly report on the causes of death in the nation (USA)
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/regular.flu/index.html
The only likely way this virus is going to start killing more peole than it is now is if the virus mutates, and if it does this, the vaccinations being produced at the moment will be as useful as an ashtray on a surfboard.
So as it stands we have the regular flu, killing upto 500,000 people annually and the swine flu that has so far killed approx. 1200 people. Do we see the same level of scaremongering with the normal flu. No. We dont see governments all over the world planning mass vaccination for the regular flu either, even though it kills significantly more people.
Mass vaccination with a vaccine thats being approved without any proof that they offer protection? Oh come on. At the end of the day, people can choose to either accept or reject the vaccine and that decision is entirely up to them (hopefully anyway). Any intelligent person with half a brain will look at both sides of the argument and make up their own mind.
There's a certain amount of risk associated with either decision. DYODD people and look at both sides of this story before you come to a decision.
Swine flu jabs to be approved in Europe without any proof they offer protection needed
Swine flu" jabs are to be approved by the European Medicine Agency (EMEA) without their capacity to protect people having to be proved at all in clinical trials.......
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=397%3Aswine-flu-jabs-to-be-approved-for-use-in-europe-without-any-proof-they-offer-protection-needed&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en
Also, the latest news from Australia. Should we sit up and listen?
Australia's top doctors warn mass vaccinations will spread disease and cause death
Australia's top doctors on infectious diseases have written to the government saying there is no need for a mass vaccination campaign, warning them that the mass vaccinations themselves could spread disease and trigger a pandemic....
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=394%3Aaustralias-top-doctors-say-no-mass-vaccinations-needed-warn-vaccinations-will-spread-disease&catid=41%3Ahighlighted-news&Itemid=105&lang=en0 -
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The Austrian Police have launched an investigation into Baxter concerning the release (transport) of several tons of vaccine contaminated with bird flu! The case/complaint has been passed onto the FBI. Of course, absolutely nothing will come of it.
See: www.swineflucase.com0 -
worldrepublic wrote: »The Austrian Police have launched an investigation into Baxter concerning the release (transport) of several tons of vaccine contaminated with bird flu! The case/complaint has been passed onto the FBI. Of course, absolutely nothing will come of it.
See: www.swineflucase.com
Your link don't work.
And fun fact: the vaccines that were contaminated wheren't going to be used on patients at all.
And notice how they are contaminated and not a single person died from those ones.
Thousands of people die each year form food poisoning caused by contaminated food products.
But there's no vast conspiracy there?0 -
Your link don't work.
And fun fact: the vaccines that were contaminated wheren't going to be used on patients at all.
And notice how they are contaminated and not a single person died from those ones.
Thousands of people die each year form food poisoning caused by contaminated food products.
But there's no vast conspiracy there?
Yea your dead right, these companies make medicine to help us all, I feel an idiot now for not trusting them, it's totally outlandish to even consider that anybody could send a known contaminated product that is known to be infected with a deadly disease, even more outlandish to think any government would allow this to happen............................
OR IS IT?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs
Bayer Sells AIDS-Infected Drug Banned in U.S. in Europe, Asia - Unearthed documents show that the drug company Bayer sold millions of dollars worth of an injectable blood-clotting medicine -- Factor VIII concentrate, intended for hemophiliacs -- to Asian, Latin American, and some European countries in the mid-1980s, although they knew that it was tainted with AIDS. Bayer knew about the fact that the drug was tainted and told the FDA to keep things under wraps while they made a profit off of a drug that infected its patients. If these allegations are true, then both Bayer and the FDA are at fault for this catastrophe. FDA regulators helped to keep the continued sales hidden, asking the company that the problem be ''quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public,''0 -
Yea your dead right, these companies make medicine to help us all, I feel an idiot now for not trusting them, it's totally outlandish to even consider that anybody could send a known contaminated product that is known to be infected with a deadly disease, even more outlandish to think any government would allow this to happen............................
OR IS IT?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-52mHIjhs
Bayer Sells AIDS-Infected Drug Banned in U.S. in Europe, Asia - Unearthed documents show that the drug company Bayer sold millions of dollars worth of an injectable blood-clotting medicine -- Factor VIII concentrate, intended for hemophiliacs -- to Asian, Latin American, and some European countries in the mid-1980s, although they knew that it was tainted with AIDS. Bayer knew about the fact that the drug was tainted and told the FDA to keep things under wraps while they made a profit off of a drug that infected its patients. If these allegations are true, then both Bayer and the FDA are at fault for this catastrophe. FDA regulators helped to keep the continued sales hidden, asking the company that the problem be ''quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public,''
Yes you've copy-pasted that before.
Still has nothing to do with the vaccine.
But scaremongering 101: if you can't get anything on what you're trying to scare people about throw up anything at all that makes the thing look bad regardless of relevance.
But do you now admit that the vaccine wasn't the problem in that H5N1 thing but it was a contamination?
Because contamination can happen in any product.0 -
HIV And Cancer Come From Vaccines - Merck Vaccine Scientist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaokq8v9JPI&feature=related
This shocking interview was CENSORED.
The world's leading authority on vaccines admitted that the HIV virus was introduced to humans through the creation of vaccines using HIV-infected monkeys from Africa.
Dr. Maurice Hilleman also acknowledged that the SV40 virus, which causes cancer, is contained in vaccines.
Some researchers believe this is responsible for the dramatic rise in cancer.
(Drug companies claim that the SV40 virus has been removed, but there are sources who say otherwise.)
While Dr. Hilleman was the senior vaccine scientist at Merck, he personally discovered the presence of the cancer-causing virus in Merck's vaccines, as well as the HIV virus in monkeys, however the company knowingly injected millions of people with both.
Dr. Hilleman has since died, but his testimony lives on in this interview.
Many people have heard that HIV came from monkeys in Africa, but they don't know how.
Some vaccines are grown on monkey kidneys. As you'll hear in this video, when it was discovered that the African green monkeys were contaminated with the (as yet unknown) HIV virus, their kidneys were used to make vaccines anyhow, despite believing that the virus would be harmful.
As a result, millions of people worldwide have now been given the HIV virus through vaccines0 -
HIV And Cancer Come From Vaccines - Merck Vaccine Scientist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaokq8v9JPI&feature=related
This shocking interview was CENSORED.
The world's leading authority on vaccines admitted that the HIV virus was introduced to humans through the creation of vaccines using HIV-infected monkeys from Africa.
Dr. Maurice Hilleman also acknowledged that the SV40 virus, which causes cancer, is contained in vaccines.
Some researchers believe this is responsible for the dramatic rise in cancer.
(Drug companies claim that the SV40 virus has been removed, but there are sources who say otherwise.)
While Dr. Hilleman was the senior vaccine scientist at Merck, he personally discovered the presence of the cancer-causing virus in Merck's vaccines, as well as the HIV virus in monkeys, however the company knowingly injected millions of people with both.
Dr. Hilleman has since died, but his testimony lives on in this interview.
Many people have heard that HIV came from monkeys in Africa, but they don't know how.
Some vaccines are grown on monkey kidneys. As you'll hear in this video, when it was discovered that the African green monkeys were contaminated with the (as yet unknown) HIV virus, their kidneys were used to make vaccines anyhow, despite believing that the virus would be harmful.
As a result, millions of people worldwide have now been given the HIV virus through vaccines
Yay! more copy paste.
You're not getting the whole "news and opinon don't equal scientific evidence" thing are you?
So why do you think this one scientist telling the truth while you think the majority of scientists are all lying?
Could it have something to do with his statements agreeing with your beliefs?0 -
Look, at the end of the day governments can be ruthless and that is a fact we do not like to think about because it makes us feel very uneasy. Likewise, corporations can be ruthless -again we prefer to focus on corporate logos, brands, sophisticated advertising, elegant offices and good-looking spokespeople in 2,000 eur suits. If a large organisation or command structure is indeed perpetuating (and is inextricably bound up with) a conspiracy/culture of misdirection, then this would lead to a "no turning back" mentality (read "going forward...") -so it's all embedded within a commercialised/monetised power-based reality and is now a fait accompli. Most people just acquiesce (albeit cynically) and try to "get with the program". A very effective strategy at all sorts of levels... except when it comes to looking in the mirror. In sum, we are all "guilty" of surviving.0
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Yes you've copy-pasted that before.
Still has nothing to do with the vaccine.
But scaremongering 101: if you can't get anything on what you're trying to scare people about throw up anything at all that makes the thing look bad regardless of relevance.
But do you now admit that the vaccine wasn't the problem in that H5N1 thing but it was a contamination?
Because contamination can happen in any product.
Still has nothing to do with the vaccine. you say!
Except both are made by Baxter which in my eyes makes it "something" to do with it, you disagree?
Please research this contamination and "try" to explain how it happened, experts are baffled, so with your true proven wisdom please put a stop to my scaremongering with your explanation.
So what I am asking is for you to research how avian flu got into normal flu vaccines.
And what's to say that with this fast-tracking of swine flu virus, another mix-up won't occur.
If your local butcher "accidently" sold contaminated meat, wouldn't give details of how it happened, then opened his shop back up, would you be among the first in the door for your steak or tripe?
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2009/03/06/baxter-product-contaminated-with-live-h5n1-avian-flu-virus/
People familiar with biosecurity rules are dismayed by evidence that human H3N2 and avian H5N1 viruses somehow co-mingled in the Orth-Donau facility. That is a dangerous practice that should not be allowed to happen, a number of experts insisted.
Accidental release of a mixture of live H5N1 and H3N2 viruses could have resulted in dire consequences.
While H5N1 doesn’t easily infect people, H3N2 viruses do. If someone exposed to a mixture of the two had been simultaneously infected with both strains, he or she could have served as an incubator for a hybrid virus able to transmit easily to and among people.
That mixing process, called reassortment, is one of two ways pandemic viruses are created.
There is no suggestion that happened because of this accident, however.
“We have no evidence of any reassortment, that any reassortment may have occurred,” said Andraghetti.
“And we have no evidence of any increased transmissibility of the viruses that were involved in the experiment with the ferrets in the Czech Republic.”
Baxter hasn’t shed much light — at least not publicly — on how the accident happened. Earlier this week Bona called the mistake the result of a combination of “just the process itself, (and) technical and human error in this procedure.”
He said he couldn’t reveal more information because it would give away proprietary information about Baxter’s production process.
Andraghetti said Friday the four investigating governments are co-operating closely with the WHO and the European Centre for Disease Control in Stockholm, Sweden.
“We are in very close contact with Austrian authorities to understand what the circumstances of the incident in their laboratory were,” she said.
“And the reason for us wishing to know what has happened is to prevent similar events in the future and to share lessons that can be learned from this event with others to prevent similar events. … This is very important.”
By Helen Branswell, THE CANADIAN PRESS0 -
So you finally admit it! Hurrah!Please research this contamination and "try" to explain how it happened, experts are baffled, so with your true proven wisdom please put a stop to my scaremongering with your explanation.
What's to say someone won't pee into the vaccines?So what I am asking is for you to research how avian flu got into normal flu vaccines.
And what's to say that with this fast-tracking of swine flu virus, another mix-up won't occur.
What's to say it won't happen with any of the seasonal vaccines?
Claiming that because a product could be contaminated that product is inherently dangerous is just plain dishonest.
It depends really.If your local butcher "accidently" sold contaminated meat, wouldn't give details of how it happened, then opened his shop back up, would you be among the first in the door for your steak or tripe?
I certainly wouldn't accuse him of trying to kill us when there is no evidence as such.
And definitely wouldn't cry conspiracy if it is found to be an accident.
And I would definitely spread lies and half truths about him, other butchers and their products.0 -
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Yay! more copy paste.
You're not getting the whole "news and opinon don't equal scientific evidence" thing are you?
So why do you think this one scientist telling the truth while you think the majority of scientists are all lying?
Could it have something to do with his statements agreeing with your beliefs?
Maybe you missed "The world's leading authority on vaccines admitted" but why should that concern your higher than high viewpoint.0
This discussion has been closed.
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