which college and why

errlloyd

ucd

errlloyd wrote: »

Hmm how prestigious a college is, is important. To me anyway, I think it is to everyone, just some people won't admit it. Like we all want to go to Cambridge or Harvard deep down.

Yes, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor. Chosing a college first, and then your course is a bit silly, to be honest. You should chose the course you want to do, then find a collge which suits. If Trinity fits, then go for it. But don't let its reputation be the deciding factor.

It's my opinion that a want for a prestigious college stems from some deep down insecurity, or something similar. But hey, I'm not psychoanalysing you.:pac:

Obviously the presence of an acronym doesn't make it less prestigious, I have already mentioned MIT. But in general it seems all the true ivy league have names. (Ok so I am shallow)

UCL, LSE, Caltech (abbreviation), UCLA, NYU, MIT (as you said). That's just a few.

If a name plays a role in your decision, then so be it.

errlloyd

ucd

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Yes, but it shouldn't be the deciding factor. Chosing a college first, and then your course is a bit silly, to be honest. You should chose the course you want to do, then find a collge which suits. If Trinity fits, then go for it. But don't let its reputation be the deciding factor.

It's my opinion that a want for a prestigious college stems from some deep down insecurity, or something similar. But hey, I'm not psychoanalysing you.:pac:



UCL, UCLA, NYU, MIT

If a name plays a role in your decision, then so be it.

UCL < Cambridge / Oxford
MIT < Harvard
UCLA < Berkley
NYU ?

Someone tried to apply this "course first college second" logic in the PPES thread on trinity, but by that logic you would only pick one course and put down 10 colleges, can you honestly say you did that?

It is very very difficult for us leaving cert students to pick a course, we have no experience of most courses, even people who do Engineering at LC level may find it different in college. I know a lot of 5th years in my school who just did like 2 weeks of law in UCD as a tester, said it was amazing, I wish I had.

How do people honestly expect us to pick which colleges provide better courses!! I asked one of the higher positioned staff at the Kings Inn open day on her opinion and she was very correct in saying there was little difference to them, but the average first year grades of Trinity students in the Kings Inn was slightly (she emphasized slightly) higher.

But this is my course again, and I know the argument isn't that.

I guess if the deal was simply I had to pick a university, and once there a course would be drawn at random for me, I would still pick Trinity, because on average I believe its better.

star-pants

local institute dkit, sligo, cork and the like

Well I applied for geology in Trinity (btw I call it TCD sometimes along with NUIG, altho I still call it by UCG sometimes) because it was in dublin, and the only other geology degree was in Galway. And as I lived up here...made sense.
I didn't get Trinity and tbh, I'm really glad, Galway was fantastic to go to college in, I don't think I'd have had such a good time if I wasn't away from home having to live life differently. I might not have gone out as much etc.

Galway's course I feel was probably better. We did a joint trip with TCD geo society and tbh, didn't seem like the kind of group I'd want to be in.

errlloyd

ucd

errlloyd wrote: »

UCL < Cambridge / Oxford
MIT < Harvard
UCLA < Berkley
NYU ? (this one is New York University)

So, you're suggesting that there is a correlation between how prestigious a college is and its lack of an acronym for its name?

Coincidence.




An interesting correlation exists between the approximate number of pirates and the average global temperature. But of course, you wouldn't believe coincidental correlations, would you?

Someone tried to apply this "course first college second" logic in the PPES thread on trinity, but by that logic you would only pick one course and put down 10 colleges, can you honestly say you did that?

I've two similar courses (maths and theoretical physics) filling up all of the places on my CAO, so yes, I would. I'm deciding what I want to do, then finding a college to suit what I want.

I guess if the deal was simply I had to pick a university, and once there a course would be drawn at random for me, I would still pick Trinity, because on average I believe its better.

On average, perhaps. But is it better for every course? No. And that's the argument. You're chosing Trinity (as you say) because it has - what you believe to be - the best law degree. That's fair enough. But, is chosing it because of how prestigious it is a valid reason? No, it's not. And that's the point of this argument.

errlloyd

ucd

Check the original data on the graph, initially the number of pirates grow even as temperatures rise. Not only that but based on several hours of research due to a debate I was attending I know there were a ****load more than 17 pirates in the world in 2000.

In fact should we exapand the graph to include anyone pirating sofware and not just sea pirates, I think it would show its true colours.

But even if we don't the graph is not proportional, not even anywhere near, its not a straight line through the origin either, what does it verify?

I didn't pick random colleges, I picked colleges nearby, UCLA and Berkly are in the same state, UCL and Cambridge are like 25 minutes on the train, MIT and Harvard are both (coincidentally) in Cambridge (Boston, MA).

I never said Trinity was better for every course, I already voiced my opinions on maths and engineering being better in other UNIs.

But in 10 years time if I walk into an interview and the only thing the employer asks is what college I went to (not what course, and lets theorize this job has no particular leaning towards any course, as that would indicate to the employer what I studied) I would want to be able to say Trinity, because I think it sounds better.

And I think anyone who denies that is indenile. And I hear the Nile is full of nasty viruses and untreated sewage, so you wanna get out of there

star-pants

local institute dkit, sligo, cork and the like

Tbh, I like saying I went to NUIG, moreso than saying 'I went to Trinity'.
I'm sorry but if someone bases you on which college you went to (not your course or how well you did or your experience) than that's pure bias and snobbery.

errlloyd

ucd

star-pants wrote: »

Tbh, I like saying I went to NUIG, moreso than saying 'I went to Trinity'.
I'm sorry but if someone bases you on which college you went to (not your course or how well you did or your experience) than that's pure bias and snobbery.

I agree, but in the hypothetical situation where they can only base it on what college you went to.

ucd

The graph is anecdotal evidence: it's not meant to be taken seriously. I don't intend on researching or re-drawing the graph... See, it's meant to be somewhat funny, and that reflects your view that colleges without acronyms are better than those with.

Anyway, if you want to let a name define who you'll be for the next few years, fire away. It's your life.

star-pants

local institute dkit, sligo, cork and the like

errlloyd wrote: »

I agree, but in the hypothetical situation where they can only base it on what college you went to.

I don't believe there should be a situation like that.
It sounds very american to me tbh, sort of like that episode of the simpsons & MrSmithers had two of the candidates who here in his fraternity and so they got in.

errlloyd

ucd

star-pants wrote: »

I don't believe there should be a situation like that.
It sounds very american to me tbh, sort of like that episode of the simpsons & MrSmithers had two of the candidates who here in his fraternity and so they got in.

This thread is called "which college and why".

The implication is there is a why. At some point you're going to have to accept that one college is better than another. Based on that you're going to have to accept that one has higher demand therefore points. Based on that you're going to have to accept that one has smarter students. Based on that you're going to have to accept that one has a better working ethos. Based on that you're going to have to accept that one produces better grades.

ucd

You're postulating an awful lot in that argument, and there are lots of tenuous links.

Especially your claim that higher points = smarter students. If only.:pac: The Leaving Cert. does anything but promote and harbour intelligence.

But anyway, this thread has been dragged painfully off topic enough, so let's not start a debate on how well the LC deals with intelligence.

NerdPantzz

dit

This all sounds very generalised and snobish to me! My first choice in DCU because I want to do nursing and they have the best and most modern facilities for that there.. Makes sense to me!! xx

Piste

ucd

I don't really understand why people are arguing...are you trying to change his opinion or something?

Piste

ucd

Piste wrote: »

I don't really understand why people are arguing...are you trying to change his opinion or something?

No. Well, I'm not anyway. I just like to debate/argue with people.

star-pants

local institute dkit, sligo, cork and the like

Piste wrote: »

I don't really understand why people are arguing...are you trying to change his opinion or something?

I have no idea hun
I was just saying galways a good college and some people seem to think its the name that matters.

errlloyd

ucd

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

students. If only.:pac: The Leaving Cert. does anything but promote and harbour intelligence.

Sorry I couldn't let you do that. Truth is if you take the average 540-550 points scorer they will have a higher IQ than the average 530-540 points scorer, even if standard deviation is the same.

xOxSinéadxOx

galway

people who are interested in how prestigious a college is are a bit sad. I suppose I'm the opposite though I nearly wouldn't put trinity downin case people thought I was a bit a of a loser :pac:

errlloyd

ucd

errlloyd wrote: »

Sorry I couldn't let you do that. Truth is if you take the average 540-550 points scorer they will have a higher IQ than the average 530-540 points scorer, even if standard deviation is the same.

I would absolutely love to see a reference for that. The fact that you can claim it to be true on pure intuition baffles me.

Anyway, this is wildly off-topic.

errlloyd

ucd

I'm not trying to change his opinion, I'm trying to justify my own.

Right fine, I am a snobby prick, I guess it all comes down to that scene in Good Will Hunting where Matt Damon destroys that Harvard lad in the bar. At the end of the day, the bloke was right, he was still getting a degree. But Matt Damon is a legend.

(I defo don't need to justify the fact)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymsHLkB8u3s

Nihilist21

ucd

errlloyd wrote: »

Truth is if you take the average 540-550 points scorer they will have a higher IQ than the average 530-540 points scorer, even if standard deviation is the same.

I too would like to see some evidence for this claim, you can't just make up statistics on a whim and not provide any concrete justification for them. Also, intelligence comes in many different forms, many people with a very high IQ do not do well in examinations (prime example being Einstein). Many leaving cert courses only test 1 type of intelligence (many being memory, which as it so happens is not a part of any IQ test I've ever done, but probably is on some), ergo those that get higher points in their leaving cert may just have higher ability in one form of intelligence, whereas a lower scoring candidate may have a broader intelligence encompassing more useful qualities and possibly a higher IQ.

Mallox

local institute dkit, sligo, cork and the like

commerce and french in either galway or cork ... heres hopin :D

-ilikeshorts

ul

Nihilist21 wrote: »

many people with a very high IQ do not do well in examinations (prime example being Einstein)

Ya I heard Albert only got 200 points;)

errlloyd

ucd

Nihilist21 wrote: »

I too would like to see some evidence for this claim, you can't just make up statistics on a whim and not provide any concrete justification for them. Also, intelligence comes in many different forms, many people with a very high IQ do not do well in examinations (prime example being Einstein). Many leaving cert courses only test 1 type of intelligence (many being memory, which as it so happens is not a part of any IQ test I've ever done, but probably is on some), ergo those that get higher points in their leaving cert may just have higher ability in one form of intelligence, whereas a lower scoring candidate may have a broader intelligence encompassing more useful qualities and possibly a higher IQ.

Ok its not actually a statistic that needs proven, its the laws of probability. Basically the entire leaving cert spectrum will get effected by it being a memory test. So some people who should get 540 will get 550 because they can remember more (and more extremes ect). But statistically speaking this will happen the entire way up the line and no grade will have more promotions than any other.

Because essentially speaking 530-540 will have the same amount of promotions as 540-550, we can essentially cancel them out. This just leaves us with people who are smart enough to get the points. One group are smart enough to get 540-550, one isn't that smart.

This wouldn't work with a sample of 5 people, but 55,000 sit the leaving, so it actually works quite well.

dog_pig

errlloyd wrote: »

Ok its not actually a statistic that needs proven, its the laws of probability. Basically the entire leaving cert spectrum will get effected by it being a memory test. So some people who should get 540 will get 550 because they can remember more (and more extremes ect). But statistically speaking this will happen the entire way up the line and no grade will have more promotions than any other.

Because essentially speaking 530-540 will have the same amount of promotions as 540-550, we can essentially cancel them out. This just leaves us with people who are smart enough to get the points. One group are smart enough to get 540-550, one isn't that smart.

This wouldn't work with a sample of 5 people, but 55,000 sit the leaving, so it actually works quite well.

Haha oh wow - basing statistics on probability now are we?

What you're saying is laughable and has no basis whatsoever.

Oh and who says that better memory = higher IQ?

errlloyd

ucd

Do you guys do maths? Actually don't even answer that question.

Do you guys actually believe that everyone who gets less points in the leaving cert is smarter than people who get more? Is that your actual belief? Like if you were employing would you go got people who got 100 points because they are obviously smart and didn't use their memories, or do you have some fictitious and totally unprovable point where memory becomes more important than intelligence.

Because the mathematics is really simple, and on a sample as big as 55,000 its rarely wrong.

But if you won't accept that I'll just take the sample that is relevant to my course. People who score >550 are smarter than people who score >490 and therefore the average Trinity law student is smarter than the average UCD one.

You guys going to sit here and put 60 points down to a memory fluke, because that really is laughable.

Idjit

galway

Im surprised such a small amount of people voted on maynooth. thats my first preference.:)

xOxSinéadxOx

galway

errlloyd wrote: »

Do you guys do maths? Actually don't even answer that question.

Do you guys actually believe that everyone who gets less points in the leaving cert is smarter than people who get more? Is that your actual belief? Like if you were employing would you go got people who got 100 points because they are obviously smart and didn't use their memories, or do you have some fictitious and totally unprovable point where memory becomes more important than intelligence.

Because the mathematics is really simple, and on a sample as big as 55,000 its rarely wrong.

But if you won't accept that I'll just take the sample that is relevant to my course. People who score >550 are smarter than people who score >490 and therefore the average Trinity law student is smarter than the average UCD one.

You guys going to sit here and put 60 points down to a memory fluke, because that really is laughable.

well there isn't a big difference between 490 and 550. It just depends on how much you study, I believe someone who gets 490 is capable of getting 550 if they studied more. don't see how getting more points makes you smarter, obviously people will assume that you are but nobody really knows how intelligent anyone is

xOxSinéadxOx

galway

Jade182 wrote: »

Im surprised such a small amount of people voted on maynooth. thats my first preference.:)

I picked maynooth on the poll, tis my 3rd choice but I think that's what I'll be getting!

Killaqueen!!!

errloyd i wish you the best of luck with your results, and im not trying to patronise you, but you're not gonna get far in life with your attitude. Maybe going to UCD will make you realise prestige isnt everything.

dog_pig

errlloyd wrote: »

do you have some fictitious and totally unprovable point where memory becomes more important than intelligence

lol

errlloyd wrote: »

People who score >550 are smarter than people who score >490 and therefore the average Trinity law student is smarter than the average UCD one.

What you originally said was the difference between people who get 540 and those who score 550 - now you're changing your range to 490 - 550?
That's increasing it be a factor of 6 - a bit unfair don't you think?

What I am saying is that you have no proof to your claims. Now if you took the section of the cohort who scored less than 200 points and compared it with those who score 550+ then I believe you'd have a point.