feral cats

Deerspotter

jaffa20 wrote: »

I'm sorry to be a pain here but killing an animal because it's a predator seems illogical when it comes to cats.

But the defense of killing a pet because it is by nature a predator of birds or rabbits seems stupid.

Don't hunters kill birds and rabbits too anyway like the cat?

****ting on your lawn. Well,cats don't really have an understanding that it's your private property and i think there are other ways of controlling cats in this case:rolleyes:

A farmer who SPOTS a dog attacking his sheep and kills it i can understand but only if it is during the act and on their property.

A hunter doing the job for the farmer, i don't as it is none of their business.

Anyway, my point is that each living animal is a predator so because it is, by your standards, we should go around killing everything, be it rabbits, birds, cats etc because it poses a threat to other animals. Isn't that hypocritical?

Unless there is proof that they are drastically disturbing the natural habitat, like there is for certain squirrels or deers then i don't see the point in shooting a cat that is chasing a bird

How does it effect you or your life? How is it causing that much harm unless some of the birds are in decline in the habitat? Also, whether i am a cat lover or not has nothing to do with it as i am simply looking at the logics of the animal as a predator in nature and the bird or whatever its catch may be is also a predator. It is all part of nature's food chain. The hunter himself being a controlling (and hopefully sensible) part of that chain.

One might say you've missed the point...
Cats do drastically disturb the natural habitat.
You have proven this point.

cloudy day

Jaffa

I also think you've missed the point. Cats are not native to the country, have no natural predators and wreak havoc. Also they are not controlled. People just open their doors and let them out.

They serve no purpose only as a pet. So if pet owners are really bothered about them they should control them. Large runs in the garden is my suggestion.

All the rest of us are bound by rules and regs whether it's for livestock or dogs.

They are a bloody nuisance and other than shooting them what's the options. Poison!! I think shooting is kinder and I'm right on here with the guys as long as it's not done for sport (sick pleasure)

Farmers hold the right to shoot a dog on site on their land whether it's attacking anything or not, rightly so. That dog could be back in the night, with others and wreak havoc on a flock.

meathstevie

As for the dogs killing or hunting livestock. It's not only the farmers who're entitled to do this, it's anyone with the permission or by request of the farmer. I done this two years ago for a friend of mine who was plagued by a particular wiley Alsatian who'd chase the cattle and had done in a few sheep. Every time he went out with the shotgun the dog legged it, he must have had shot flying around his ears on more than one occassion I suspect. I was asked to shoot him with the rifle. I spent two evenings waiting for the dog and late into the second evening he was shot. The sad part of this story is that the dog was owned by a thick ignorant character who lived maybe half a mile out the road from my friends and several farmers had already warned the owner about what was going to happen if the dog wasn't controlled.

Anyway, that's a sidenote.

jaffa20

cloudy day wrote: »

Jaffa

I also think you've missed the point. Cats are not native to the country, have no natural predators and wreak havoc. Also they are not controlled. People just open their doors and let them out.

They serve no purpose only as a pet. So if pet owners are really bothered about them they should control them. Large runs in the garden is my suggestion.

Cats may come from north africa but i don't get your point. We all descend come from east africa.




All the rest of us are bound by rules and regs whether it's for livestock or dogs.

They are a bloody nuisance and other than shooting them what's the options. Poison!! I think shooting is kinder and I'm right on here with the guys as long as it's not done for sport (sick pleasure)

Farmers hold the right to shoot a dog on site on their land whether it's attacking anything or not, rightly so. That dog could be back in the night, with others and wreak havoc on a flock.

We can't go around shooting things because they are a nuisance. Foxes/dogs are natural predators of cats and kill many. Does this mean we should shoot a dog because it kills a cat? I mean, we shoot the cat because it kills rats, birds etc

Dogs can harm farm animals and i understand your point (although i would prefer there would be sufficent proof of possible attack before killing them). Cats on the other hand are predators of other small animals in the habitat but i don't think it is significant enough to kill them. They kill birds and rats but birds and rats are predators themselves. Every animal is a predator, that is what i'm getting at. Shooting them should only be allowed if they are significanly reducing numbers of wildlife that is low in number. I don't see how this can be proven as most cats are domesticated and won't hunt down anything when they get fed at home.

Deerspotter wrote: »

One might say you've missed the point...
Cats do drastically disturb the natural habitat.
You have proven this point.

They disturb it perhaps, as does every living animal because it is part of food chain, like we are.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Cats are not a natural part of our environment, as they originally were imported from north Africa and the middle East as pets. Our wildlife is not equipped to deal with them, so we control them the way we control foxes.

In any case, there's no point debating this unless it's acknowledged that none of this is an issue if pet owners are responsible and restrict the movement of their pets. If they are, no pet cats will ever be shot, only wild and feral ones, and minimal damage will be caused to the environment. If people let their cats roam in the countryside, then it's possible they'll be killed. It's down to the owners to prevent this.

I don't think it is possible to keep a cat locked up/tied like a dog. They roam all the time but just because they roam does not mean that they will attack other birds/rats. They roam to mate or explore. A curious cat should not be shot because this is in their nature.

Can someone please tell me where i am missing the point and how it is proven that a cat is feral?

Grizzly 45

Dogs can harm farm animals and i understand your point (although i would prefer there would be sufficent proof of possible attack before killing them).

Such as??

I don't see how this can be proven as most cats are domesticated and won't hunt down anything when they get fed at home.

Errr, well fed cats still kill rats and birds literally for "sport" as well.

I don't think it is possible to keep a cat locked up/tied like a dog.

Yes it is quite possible to keep cats indoors.People keep them in the UK and USA in their apartments from kitten to grave.

They roam all the time but just because they roam does not mean that they will attack other birds/rats. They roam to mate or explore. A curious cat should not be shot because this is in their nature.


Simple really; If it is your cat,dog,horse,cow, hamster the onus is on you the owner to look after it and keep it under control and within your property.If your dog worries stock you are responsible,just as much if your horse or cattle wander onto a public road and cause an accident.So why should the cat owner be exempt from responsibility,just because it is in their animals nature to roam and be curious???
If cat owners were responsible and kept their predators at home we wouldnt have to shoot them feral or otherwise.

jaffa20

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Such as??




Errr, well fed cats still kill rats and birds literally for "sport" as well.






Yes it is quite possible to keep cats indoors.People keep them in the UK and USA in their apartments from kitten to grave.

They roam all the time but just because they roam does not mean that they will attack other birds/rats. They roam to mate or explore. A curious cat should not be shot because this is in their nature.


Simple really; If it is your cat,dog,horse,cow, hamster the onus is on you the owner to look after it and keep it under control and within your property.If your dog worries stock you are responsible,just as much if your horse or cattle wander onto a public road and cause an accident.So why should the cat owner be exempt from responsibility,just because it is in their animals nature to roam and be curious???
If cat owners were responsible and kept their predators at home we wouldnt have to shoot them feral or otherwise.

Ok look at it this way;

Dog/fox kill cats,

cats kill birds

birds destroy/disturb growth of fruit

At what level should the cycle be controlled and by what standards?

It is all a cycle. Hunter kills cats because they are roaming, yet may not be a threat to any of the birds/rats. Not all cats kill. They are well fed pets who are let out now and again in the garden and cannot be locked up 24/7.

Do you feel a cat who is roaming, should be shot on sight? If so, why? Because the owner has not taken responsability.

I cannot honeslty see the real threat of cats to wildlife and how it can be proven in practice of hunting. What i am saying is that every animal is a predator and i cannot see where it can be controlled.

jwshooter

why dont you close this thread ,its severing no purpose

jaffa20

jwshooter wrote: »

why dont you close this thread ,its severing no purpose

Because we are having aa discussion about why cats should be shot and i am interesting in hearing the arguments although i am yet to be convinced. I would like to see the arguments/reasoning behind this and not an excuse that because they are roaming and their owners not taking responsability.

Also, i wanted to see why cats are such a predator of a higher standard over what they prey on, for ex rats, birds (being predators themselves).

By closing a thread, we achieve nothing.

jwshooter

il have ti read this sxxt from the start to answer you back in a bit

Grizzly 45

Dog/fox kill cats,

Using your arguement,not necessarily true either.Not all dogs kill cats.
If you want the best Cat killer,reintroduce the Lynx or real wild cat.They kil on sight all domestic cats.To the point that cat owners in Europe have suddenly become NIMBY about them being reintroduced in certain areas.:rolleyes:

birds destroy/disturb growth of fruit

Birds are controlled too by shooting,netting or poisioning.

It is all a cycle. Hunter kills cats because they are roaming, yet may not be a threat to any of the birds/rats. Not all cats kill.

Yes,but what are they up to when roamng?Or have been..If it is a natural predation breed or animal it has the genes to kill.

They are well fed pets who are let out now and again in the garden and cannot be locked up 24/7.

Thats abit of a sweeping generalisation.Not all cats are well pampered pets.So it is all right then to keep a dog enclosed in a pound or large yard 24/7 as well?But if I let them out to "roam" I am responsible if they bite somone or kill livestock.Yet a dog has as much a roaming instinct as a cat.
I said cats can be kept indoors all of their lives and are kept like that in major cities all over the World.Why or how would a city dweller let out a cat in a big city if you are living on the 5th floor of an apartment complex?? I lived in the US in California and my apartment mate had two cats and they were never let out and lived quite happily indoors.

Do you feel a cat who is roaming, should be shot on sight? If so, why? Because the owner has not taken responsability.

Yes, as you cannot assertain wether it is a owned cat or a second generation,born in the wild,be it urban/rural feral cat.Exactly,if I let my dogs rom all over the countryside and worry stock,I can hardly claim it is a dogs natural instinct to form packs and hunt down sheep or cattle.
So why can cat owners claim this exclusevity??

I cannot honeslty see the real threat of cats to wildlife and how it can be proven in practice of hunting.

Once you have found a bunch of songbirds that you have encouraged into your garden and pheasent poults done in by a domestic moggie you might feel abit different:(

What i am saying is that every animal is a predator and i cannot see where it can be controlled

Really,cows and lemurs are predators???:eek: Scene of the film "fierce creatures" :)It can be controlled by owners taking responsibility and keeping their cats under control on their own property,spaying and not dumping them in the countryside.Then we wouldnt have to shoot them.

jwshooter

i have read all 101 posts ,there is no answer, cats cause enormous damage in rural and suburban ireland facts.

i have shot a lot of feral cats on ground that i manage around my house .

i was making dinner last winter when i spotted a cat on my patio, 99.99 times out of a 100 i would shoot it as i have before .

any way i did not and gave it a can of dog food the fucxxn thing is sitting be side me now bold as brass.

im glad i did not as i like it .

there is too many sides to these storys.

jaffa20

jwshooter wrote: »

i have read all 101 posts ,there is no answer, cats cause enormous damage in rural and suburban ireland facts.

i have shot a lot of feral cats on ground that i manage around my house .

i was making dinner last winter when i spotted a cat on my patio, 99.99 times out of a 100 i would shoot it as i have before .

any way i did not and gave it a can of dog food the fucxxn thing is sitting be side me now bold as brass.

im glad i did not as i like it .

there is too many sides to these storys.

Thank you for recognising that it is not clear cut.

There are many arguments for or against and you have proven that not all cats that roam are a threat that should be shot on sight.

jwshooter

jaffa20 wrote: »

Thank you for recognising that it is not clear cut.

There are many arguments for or against and you have proven that not all cats that roam are a threat that should be shot on sight.

it is far from clear cut ,this cat that is now on my lap and puring was feral ok you under stand this .
dont ask me why fed it dont ask me why i tuck it in.
i do expect the dogs to catch it one of these fine days.

but if i did not feed it and take it in it would be living wild

ie. living off song birds game birds etc .........


my point they cant all be lucky .

so i think the thread is ran its course

foxshooter243

jwshooter wrote: »

so i think the thread is ran its course

since when were you made a mod

Jonty

jaffa20 wrote: »

They roam all the time but just because they roam does not mean that they will attack other birds/rats. They roam to mate or explore. A curious cat should not be shot because this is in their nature.

Can someone please tell me where i am missing the point and how it is proven that a cat is feral?

You've kinda summed up a problem there yourself. The kittens could turn out feral and wreak havoc. Do you think neutering is wrong too?

bunny shooter

If it is a pet and domestic it should be under the owners control and not let "roam and explore". Dogs are not allowed this freedom.

If it is feral then it is not a pet or a domestic animal.

Jaffa you are an animal lover? As are most if not all the hunters here. The only difference is you think killing any animal/bird is wrong. We believe it is ok to kill in order protect game or to eat game.

If you will not agree to see our point of view your argument is just that, an argument.

pullandbang

jaffa20 wrote: »

Do you feel a cat who is roaming, should be shot on sight? If so, why? Because the owner has not taken responsability.

Yes, in the same way that roaming dogs should be shot. Ask any sheep farmer.

jwshooter

pullandbang wrote: »

Yes, in the same way that roaming dogs should be shot. Ask any sheep farmer.

iv never seen a cat worring sheep

hk

jwshooter wrote: »

iv never seen a cat worring sheep

I have, the little fecker told the sheep that the recession had reduced his pension to less than 20% of what it was worth a year ago. The sheep was very worried.

ayapatrick

hk wrote: »

I have, the little fecker told the sheep that the recession had reduced his pension to less than 20% of what it was worth a year ago. The sheep was very worried.

lmao

Rosahane

I don't see what all the fuss as about!

It's simple to tell a domestic cat, you can hear them as they have a collar and a bell around their necks

...don't they?:D

cloudy day

hk wrote: »

I have, the little fecker told the sheep that the recession had reduced his pension to less than 20% of what it was worth a year ago. The sheep was very worried.

jaffa20

Jonty wrote: »

You've kinda summed up a problem there yourself. The kittens could turn out feral and wreak havoc. Do you think neutering is wrong too?

No i think neutering if fine. It is a way of stopping them from roaming and overbreeding. But many cats still roam even when they are neuteured. Killing them as way of controlling their population i think is wrong as they may not be causing any harm to other wildlife. Even if they do catch the odd rat or bird to bring back to their owner, why does that mean they should be shot as hunters will go out and probably shoot the same bird that said cat who was shot the day before would have killed. Just doesn't seem fair unless you see the cat preying on a bird that is in decline in the habitat.

Do you think it is ok to kill a neutered pet cat that is exploring the neigbouring field without any intention of killing.

bunny shooter wrote: »

If it is a pet and domestic it should be under the owners control and not let "roam and explore". Dogs are not allowed this freedom.

If it is feral then it is not a pet or a domestic animal.

Jaffa you are an animal lover? As are most if not all the hunters here. The only difference is you think killing any animal/bird is wrong. We believe it is ok to kill in order protect game or to eat game.

If you will not agree to see our point of view your argument is just that, an argument.

It is easier to prevent a dog than a cat from roaming. I never said i was an animal lover. In fact, i agree with certain hunting if the catch is eaten and it is done for reason that control population of other species and habitat. I don't see the genuine destruction that a cat can cause.

pullandbang wrote: »

Yes, in the same way that roaming dogs should be shot. Ask any sheep farmer.

Roaming dogs shouldn't be shot unless they are hunting down farm animals. The farmer has no right to shoot it unless it has trespassed onto their property. Not all dogs would attack sheep. Just like not all cats would attack birds or rats.

Rosahane wrote: »

I don't see what all the fuss as about!

It's simple to tell a domestic cat, you can hear them as they have a collar and a bell around their necks

...don't they?:D

Nope,not all of them. I suppose of cat owners knew that a hunter was likely to shoot their pet on sight. But then again it wouldn't matter if it had one or not as many of the people this thread would have no problem killing a domestic cat.

pullandbang

jaffa20 wrote: »

Roaming dogs shouldn't be shot unless they are hunting down farm animals. The farmer has no right to shoot it unless it has trespassed onto their property. Not all dogs would attack sheep. Just like not all cats would attack birds or rats.ot all of them.

I doubt if too many sheep farmers would agree with you.
I've yet to meet one who doesn't want any stray dogs who are roaming his land shot.
I've also yet to see a cat that doesn't kill. You only have to watch pet cats destroy newly hatched pheasant chicks when they find them during their hunts.

greenpeter

Cats are leatal around sheep, they carry infectious diseases that can cause sheep to abort. So they should be contoled especially if they are feral. I'v also see them clean a pen of young pheasants.They are really getting out of control around me :mad:

jaffa20

pullandbang wrote: »

I doubt if too many sheep farmers would agree with you.
I've yet to meet one who doesn't want any stray dogs who are roaming his land shot.
I've also yet to see a cat that doesn't kill. You only have to watch pet cats destroy newly hatched pheasant chicks when they find them during their hunts.

I'll give you my dad's number then. He has a sheep farmer and he has only had one dog shot and that was when it had attacked a lamb. If they were on his land, he would warn the owner first before killing it. Some cats may attack pheasant, just like hunters shoot pheasant. Most animals that you shoot kill, it's nature for survival but a dog or cat is less likely too as they will be fed at home. Feral cats do it for survival too but i guess when they cause severe harm to the wildlife, they should be shot but only if their is sufficient proof and you don't mind eating it which i very much doubt. A lot of feral cats can be tamed so if you are worried about possible harm they may cause, you could bring them to an animal shelter or keep them as your new found pet. It's a bit less extreme than shooting them.

If found ****ting on your lawn, buy a water pistol:p

Everyone keeps having a go at my arguments but can't you see where i am coming from, animal lover or not.

jaffa20

greenpeter wrote: »

Cats are leatal around sheep, they carry infectious diseases that can cause sheep to abort. So they should be contoled especially if they are feral. I'v also see them clean a pen of young pheasants.They are really getting out of control around me :mad:

Fine if you see them killing young pheasant, by all means, shoot but don't think that all cats will do the same. If one is pissing in your garden and not wearing a collar, it doesn't mean it has just cleared a pen of young pheasant, so think before you shoot.:rolleyes:

Ned Muldhoon

Jaffa20 - I have shot my fair share of feral cats, but I can see where you're comming from, the possible killing of a pet is to be avoided and devastating to the owner. What you have to realise that, although cats are a domestic animal, they do cause untolled carnage amoungst wildlife, young game and more importantly, in my opinion, are a carrier of toxiplasmosis (cats are by far the most common carrier).
I have young children who spend nearly all of their spare time in the garden or in the fields. I did have a problem with wild / domestic cats some time back, crapping in the garden etc. I contacted the cats protection society, ISPCA etc. After numerous conversations with ridiculous suggestions from all organisations, I was left with no alternative but to shoot these animals. I am an avid hunter with 30+ years experience and do not take the killing of any animal lightly.
IMO, if you have a problem with ferals - shoot on sight, if you have an issue with a domestic cat (albeit difficult to tell the difference), talk to the owner / animal shelter / protection org, if you get no viable answer, shoot on the cat on sight.

Grizzly 45

why does that mean they should be shot as hunters will go out and probably shoot the same bird that said cat who was shot the day before would have kille

Sorry,we are generally are not Italians who shoot song birds or catch them in mist nets here.:pac:Pheasent poults and ducklings have a few months to go before we would consider them fair game for sahooting.Like 9 months give or take.Cats dont differenate on these points.

Do you think it is ok to kill a neutered pet cat that is exploring the neigbouring field without any intention of killing.

Neutered cats are soo blooddy lazy they spend their time eating or sleeping.Going further than the food bowl or kitty litter box is anethema to them.Going exploring the countryside is too much work!So a cat out in the wilds will be hardly neutred.

It is easier to prevent a dog than a cat from roaming.

Strawman!They are both domesticated animals and are owned.Why again can a cat owner claim exemption of responsibility because of their animals nature??No one else can claim this or have the presumption to do so.

I don't see the genuine destruction that a cat can cause.

for your reading
www.stanford.edu/~cagan/InnocentPet.pdf%20.pdf

www.messybeast.com/ausdilemma.htm

Roaming dogs shouldn't be shot unless they are hunting down farm animals.

So feral packs of dogs is ok then??Has happened once down here in the 80s.

The farmer has no right to shoot it unless it has trespassed onto their property.

Well, he is hardly going to demand a dog worrying sheep on his neighbours land be shot??:rolleyes:

Not all dogs would attack sheep. Just like not all cats would attack birds or rats.

No ,but dogs are social pack animals,that will under leadership of an Alpha dog will attack both animal and human.Irrespective of wether an individual dog would attack a sheep or not,pack mentality takes over.
Cats OTOH are indivdiualistic predators,it is comparing apples and cooking apples.

Nope,not all of them. I suppose of cat owners knew that a hunter was likely to shoot their pet on sight. But then again it wouldn't matter if it had one or not as many of the people this thread would have no problem killing a domestic cat.

Wouldnt it behoove the owners to keep them under control then????:rolleyes:

chem

I put a stuffed sparrow over my muzzle and hide in the ditch while cat hunting. Not so much of a market anymore for cat hide, since the furbe craze died :pac: