Thank God

Mrmoe

Zillah wrote: »

I think I spotted an error in your logic.

People should not get worked up about people raping people, in the same way they should not get worked up by other people not raping people.

Well unfortunately you hit a nail of truth, people are raped all the time and most of the time there is no uproar. If people gave a crap about things like rape and murder in the world and did something about it I be more than happy to try and convince people that there is no God.

fitz0

kelly1 wrote: »

Ultimately evil is a mystery but like I said, I think love must involve free-will.

That's one thing that constantly bothers me, religious folks don't really seem to want to understand this "mystery." They seem happy to just call it a "mystery" and be done. I can't rationalize such willful ignorance. How can you?

kelly1 wrote:

Why can't you accept the idea that all bad/evil comes from us?

We do. God does not exist therefore everything is as it is. Man can be bad/evil/good/kind/cruel/generous/quiet/angry/sad and so forth.

BUT if god did exist and is omnipotent and omniscient then all comes from him. The good AND the bad. If you insist that the above quote is true then why is it that all good does not come from us? If god makes it so that all evil comes from us then why is it so far fetched that all good does too?

I think I know. If all good came from us then what would be the point in a god at all? So good must come from god, it has to.

A side note on omniscience and omnipotence
If god is both of the above then we arrive at a little contradiction. If god made the universe then he, in his omniscience, knew exactly how the whole thing would pan out. Surely if he knew in advance then he would be powerless to change it, since, by his omniscience, he would know that he would change it, thereby negating any claim to omnipotence. And, in his omniscience, he would surely know what he would do all along and he would know he knew. This leads me to envision god as a mere conduit, if he were to exist at all. Unable to change anything once events are set in motion, unable to even think new thoughts, this god-being is a prisoner of his own power, undeserving of worship or praise. Why praise a robot?

MrPudding

fitz0 wrote: »

A side note on omniscience and omnipotence
If god is both of the above then we arrive at a little contradiction. If god made the universe then he, in his omniscience, knew exactly how the whole thing would pan out. Surely if he knew in advance then he would be powerless to change it, since, by his omniscience, he would know that he would change it, thereby negating any claim to omnipotence. And, in his omniscience, he would surely know what he would do all along and he would know he knew. This leads me to envision god as a mere conduit, if he were to exist at all. Unable to change anything once events are set in motion, unable to even think new thoughts, this god-being is a prisoner of his own power, undeserving of worship or praise. Why praise a robot?

Epicurus FTW.

Epicurus wrote:

Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot,
or he can but does not want to,
or he cannot and does not want to,
or lastly he can and wants to.

If he wants to remove evil, and cannot,
he is not omnipotent;
If he can, but does not want to,
he is not benevolent;
If he neither can nor wants to,
he is neither omnipotent nor benevolent;
But if God can abolish evil and wants to,
how does evil exist?

Was my sig until I tried to raise a bit of money...

MrP

fitz0

MrPudding wrote: »

Epicurus FTW.

Was my sig until I tried to raise a bit of money...

MrP

That's the one. I was trying to remember where it came from.