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Thank God

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    #32
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Its the age old, if it doesn't hurt anyone, let them do it.

    Thanking god for ones own trials, sure, its selling yourself short, but in the believers mind the magic god and his power may be a more real reassurance than self reliance.

    Pathetic? Maybe.

    Affecting others? Maybe, maybe not.

    On a par with all the other forms of sun worship and magic? Sure.

    But if it doesn't harm anyone in individual form, as in goduzntexists post, leave them to it, and concentrate on the far more imposing and destructive organisation behind these human belittling cults. And maybe then there will be less people dragged into inherited guilt and shame for their own human nature.

    But I agree it is frustrating to listen to, but so is prayer, and all the other weird things these people do and attribute to magic.

    I'd be kind of 'meh' about the whole thing.


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    #33
    DapperGent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,838 ✭✭✭DapperGent


    I agree with the sentiment of the OP but I consider it wholly inappropriate and unpleasant to reference an individual poster in this way.


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    #34
    coillcam
    Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭coillcam


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    It's even more of a cop out than that. It's usually "god works in mysterious ways"

    "It was his time and God chose to call him"

    -Priest at my cousin's 2 years mass last weekend.

    So if I want to call/beckon my "followers" to my ethereal realm, I catch their clothes in a conveyor belt, dragging them into a stone crushing machine and smack their head with it just to make sure. A good mangling might not be sufficient. I can see the connection there.


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    #35
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    DapperGent wrote: »
    I agree with the sentiment of the OP but I consider it wholly inappropriate and unpleasant to reference an individual poster in this way.

    And yet your fellow mods feel no issue.


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    #36
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    The OP was just letting off some steam, it's not a personal attack on anyone, he just used them as an example to raise a reasonably valid point, didn't use their name or anything. Big fuss over nothing as far as i can see.

    Nah, he just posted a link to her post in order to express his disgust. Seriously, can you not put the rose tinted glasses down for one moment?


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    #37
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,170 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    Nah, he just posted a link to her post in order to express his disgust. Seriously, can you not put the rose tinted glasses down for one moment?

    Fiddlesticks.I don't wear glasses, but on this evidence maybe i should, honestly didn't see the link. My bad.:rolleyes:


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    #38
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    And yet your fellow mods feel no issue.
    DapperGent doesn't moderate A&A and therefore is just a user here like you.

    If the OP had linked to a particular post it might have been removed, but in reality the link was only to reference a concept that was up for discussion - i.e. people crediting God for things that happen them.

    That's my view on the matter at any rate.


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    #39
    paulieeye
    Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭paulieeye


    I in some ways agree with the OP but in thanking god is she not thanking one of the main factors that gave her strength to get through the whole situation?

    I dont believe in god but I can see how some people gain strength from such an idea and help them fight. Her gradatude maybe misplaced but in her eyes this is what got her through, so in her eyes is this not who she should thank? From an outsiders view, no, but from her view its a different story. If she did not believe in this 'cloud man' would she still be alive, maybe. But it gave her hope and from my expierence thats half the battle.


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    #40
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    paulieeye wrote: »
    I in some ways agree with the OP but in thanking god is she not thanking one of the main factors that gave her strength to get through the whole situation?

    I dont believe in god but I can see how some people gain strength from such an idea and help them fight. Her gradatude maybe misplaced but in her eyes this is what got her through, so in her eyes is this not who she should thank? From an outsiders view, no, but from her view its a different story. If she did not believe in this 'cloud man' would she still be alive, maybe. But it gave her hope and from my expierence thats half the battle.

    But if you believe in god, you have to acknowledge that you're sick only because he deliberately allowed you to get sick. You're only in that situation because of him so surely he's the last person you should be appealing to for strength?

    Seems to me that people who pray to god when they're sick don't really understand god


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    #41
    Overblood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭Overblood


    I find the Prayer request thread absolutely sickening. One woman suffered a miscarriage and asked for prayers, and I'm genuinely sorry for her troubles. I have have a close friend who miscarried her child. Anyway, the woman recieved a "consoling" reply from a poster who said that it may not not be god's will that she concieve so soon.

    W...........T...........F


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    #42
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    I've been informed that my OP may have caused offense to a number of people, I take this opportunity to wholeheartedly apologise for any offense caused, please understand it was never my intention.

    The only reason I chose that particular example was because it stuck out in my mind. A friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer and that is the main reason I remembered it.

    Again I apologise and hope that no one will hold this against me in the future.


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    #43
    kiffer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭kiffer


    The one that confuses me is when I see a news story like "Child rescued from drowning by passing stranger, family thanks God"...
    I'm sure the people aren't ungrateful to the person that risked life and limb to save their Tiny Tim... but it can seem that way...

    What did God do in these situations? arranged the strangers life in such a way that he would be passing at the right time to save the child?
    Why would he do that rather than simply increasing the local coefficient of friction under the child feet thus preventing him falling in the water in the first place? That would require far less interference with the free will of others in order to produce a situation in which the man was passing at just the right time to see and save the child... Why a huge convoluted plan? oh that's right mysterious ways...


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    #44
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,170 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    kiffer wrote: »
    The one that confuses me is when I see a news story like "Child rescued from drowning by passing stranger, family thanks God"...
    I'm sure the people aren't ungrateful to the person that risked life and limb to save their Tiny Tim... but it can seem that way...

    What did God do in these situations? arranged the strangers life in such a way that he would be passing at the right time to save the child?
    Why would he do that rather than simply increasing the local coefficient of friction under the child feet thus preventing him falling in the water in the first place? That would require far less interference with the free will of others in order to produce a situation in which the man was passing at just the right time to see and save the child... Why a huge convoluted plan? oh that's right mysterious ways...

    Ah now, he's probably a bit bored what with knowing everything and being everywhere at once and just does these things to keep himself interested :P


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    #45
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    And why did he give her cancer in the first place :confused:

    Thanking god for curing someone's cancer is like thanking someone for taking their knife away from your throat

    People do that


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    #46
    3greenrizla's
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭3greenrizla's


    OP, what did you expect to read when you clicked on a thread called "Praise the Lord" on the Christianity section?

    A lot of people find god when they are diagnosed with a terminal illness and it is not surprising that someone who has faith to thank God/Mohammed/Buddha/Flying Spaghetti Monster for giving them the courage to fight the illness/accept their demise. If it works for them what harm and who are you to say they are wrong, God might not exist, but then again he might and you (and I) have just not found him/her/it yet. But even if you are 100% sure that this person is an idiot* and there is no God, why did you read the thread?

    in regards to insulting doctors, I would imagine a Dr would prefer a patient who thinks God is on their side.

    I think it is important to remember that even if you (I) don't have faith it is important to have a little respect to the faith(s) of others, if it helps them get through their daily lives and hopefully makes them a better person, good for them, let them thank whoever they want.

    Now the people acting on behalf of god, that's another story.



    oh, I have to admit that I am often guilty of blaming/thanking "god" for the weather.


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    #47
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    But even if you are 100% sure that this person is an idiot* and there is no God, why did you read the thread?
    Same reason I read threads in Paranormal, or TLL. For teh lulz.
    3greenrizla's wrote: »

    in regards to insulting doctors, I would imagine a Dr would prefer a patient who thinks God is on their side.
    By making them sick?
    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    [...] if it helps them get through their daily lives and hopefully makes them a better person, good for them, let them thank whoever they want.
    Why should we need threats to be good people, this particular topic has been done to death, but the underlying facts are frightening.


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    #48
    3greenrizla's
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭3greenrizla's


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    By making them sick?

    No, I am not a Dr so I cannot really say what dr's would think, but a Dr is in my mind a man of science, who would not blame God for making anyone sick. But if a person uses religion "as a crutch" to deal with being diagnosed with a terminal illness and facing their mortality I personally cannot see it being a problem, if it helps all the better and I would think that a doctor should be all for it. Obviously this would change if a persons religious beliefs conflicted with any recommended treatment.
    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    Why should we need threats to be good people, this particular topic has been done to death, but the underlying facts are frightening.

    that is a totally different argument, my main point was that if religion helps someone good for them, and if it guides someone to being a better person that's a bonus.

    If this lady approached you and started taking up your time by trying to convince you there is a god, because she beat cancer then I would have no bother with you being irate, but she didn't you chose to read it, do you read any religious stuff you get in the door, I don't because I have a rough idea of what it's going to say and I know I will find fault with it.







    - Yeah. Well, what Jesus blatantly fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem.


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    #49
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    No, I am not a Dr so I cannot really say what dr's would think, but a Dr is in my mind a man of science, who would not blame God for making anyone sick. But if a person uses religion "as a crutch" to deal with being diagnosed with a terminal illness and facing their mortality I personally cannot see it being a problem, if it helps all the better and I would think that a doctor should be all for it. Obviously this would change if a persons religious beliefs conflicted with any recommended treatment.
    They turn to a Higher Power, who -they seem to forget- could have easily stopped this from ever happening. I makes absolutely no sense.
    And having your hard work credited to an imaginary friend is highly disrespectful. How many years of college, how much money spent? What gratitude is there?

    A test of faith maybe?
    why does an all powerful all knowing being need to test the faith of His creations, He should know how it's going to work out.
    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    that is a totally different argument, my main point was that if religion helps someone good for them, and if it guides someone to being a better person that's a bonus.
    Is it? Why do religious people avoid sinning?
    If just because it's the nice thing to do, why is there a need for Hell at all?
    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    If this lady approached you and started taking up your time by trying to convince you there is a god, because she beat cancer then I would have no bother with you being irate, but she didn't you chose to read it, do you read any religious stuff you get in the door, I don't because I have a rough idea of what it's going to say and I know I will find fault with it.
    Read 'em anyway, some of it is classic.

    You listen to the news? Of course you do! Is there anything in it that bothers you? Of course there is, but you don't bury your head in the sand and hope it will go away.


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    #50
    3greenrizla's
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭3greenrizla's


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    They turn to a Higher Power, who -they seem to forget- could have easily stopped this from ever happening. I makes absolutely no sense.
    And having your hard work credited to an imaginary friend is highly disrespectful. How many years of college, how much money spent? What gratitude is there?

    I would hope that a doctor would be more concerned about the health of their patient rather than their own ego.

    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    Is it? Why do religious people avoid sinning?
    If just because it's the nice thing to do, why is there a need for Hell at all?

    again it's a different argument and as you said has been done to death, but positive moral guidance and learning the difference between right and wrong (morally) cannot be a bad thing regardless of where it comes from.
    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    You listen to the news? Of course you do! Is there anything in it that bothers you? Of course there is, but you don't bury your head in the sand and hope it will go away.

    there are many things that bother me, of course there are. but I would not visit a Nazi forum and be surprised by anything they say about the Jewish people.

    and I do not think that accepting that people have ideas/beliefs that are different to mine is not putting my head in the sand.


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    #51
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    I would hope that a doctor would be more concerned about the health of their patient rather than their own ego.

    Me too :D
    Maybe there is a better example out there, but we both know what I meant.
    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    and I do not think that accepting that people have ideas/beliefs that are different to mine is not putting my head in the sand.

    It just gets me, there has to be something similar that get to you.


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    #52
    3greenrizla's
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭3greenrizla's


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

    It just gets me, there has to be something similar that get to you.

    one thing I always find slightly amusing in these conversations is that it is deemed expectable by (Christian) society to thank god for whatever, but its not acceptable if someone said that the disabled/ill they are atoning for something that has happened in a previous life (reincarnation).

    this post is taken from another unrelated thread, but i can use it to kind of sum up what I am trying to say.
    robindch wrote: »

    It would be great if religious people would respect my wishes as a parent, but it seems that a certain portion of them simply won't.

    respect is a two way street, if you want people to respect your beliefs you should show a little respect for theirs. of course I might be totally wrong and you might not care what people think about your beliefs.

    & a quote from yet another thread LZ5by5 says it very well.

    Edit to add a quote from another thread where LZ5by% sums it up perfectly.
    LZ5by5 wrote: »
    ........ I get what you are saying. For a lot of people religion is a beacon of strength and hope rather than a way of life. If religion helps people to cope with bereavement then I, and no-one else, has the right to dismiss that person's belief as fickle or of lacking substance.


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    #53
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    respect is a two way street, if you want people to respect your beliefs you should show a little respect for theirs. of course I might be totally wrong and you might not care what people think about your beliefs.
    As an atheist, I've long ago gotten used to certain people taking a dim view of my beliefs. However, these people are welcome to their beliefs (and I have no interest in changing them), as I would like them to let me and my kid(s) be welcome to ours.

    Reciprocity is a two-way street.


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    #54
    3greenrizla's
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭3greenrizla's


    robindch wrote: »
    Reciprocity is a two-way street.

    True & that is part of the problem that I have with religion, if everyone who claimed to be religious held to their beliefs and used their doctrine (10 commandments) as a guide to their lives the world would be a better place.

    I remember an occasion as a child when my mother let a traveller woman come into our shop to fill a bucket of water. a local lady told my mother that she should not do it because they were bringing down the tone of the area, my mother was a very religious woman (through illness) and was disgusted that this friend/neighbour, and someone who would sit up the top of the church could be so unchristian.

    we can only do what we feel is right in the end.


    Sorry for going off topic but to be fair when I originally clicked on the thread I was expecting you to be giving out about people thanking god for the rain stopping - I do that, what does everyone else do?


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    #55
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    Sorry for going off topic but to be fair when I originally clicked on the thread I was expecting you to be giving out about people thanking god for the rain stopping - I do that, what does everyone else do?

    "Oh good, it stopped raining."


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    #56
    Genghiz Cohen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭Genghiz Cohen


    3greenrizla's wrote: »
    Sorry for going off topic but to be fair when I originally clicked on the thread I was expecting you to be giving out about people thanking god for the rain stopping - I do that, what does everyone else do?

    Well yes there is that, but the more serious ones get a more serious reaction from me.
    Thanking God for the rain stopping gets a rolleyes,
    saving someone's life =
    RAAAAGE.png


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    #57
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Genghiz Cohen wrote: »
    There is very little in this world that gets my goat more than people thanking God for something.

    I was reading the Praise The Lord thread over on Christianity a month or so back, and this poor woman fell ill to cancer. She pulled through, which is great (it's a terrible disease and the sooner it's cured, in all it's forms, the better)
    But then she started thanking god for pulling her through, not her own determination to live, not medical science, not her family's support.

    No, she thanks the cloud man, the same guy who won't save kids from starvation in Africa, the same who causes earth-quakes to knock schools and hospitals.

    I nearly broke my keyboard.

    Words fail me when this happens...

    Maybe I'm overreacting it's a definite possibility, but damn, it just gets me...

    Well it's not unusual for atheists to get worked up about a God they believe doesn't exist! LOL :pac:

    We Christians believe that all good comes from God so that's why she thanked God. But you wouldn't understand....


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    #58
    fitz0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭fitz0


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Well it's not unusual for atheists to get worked up about a God they believe doesn't exist! LOL :pac:

    We Christians believe that all good comes from God so that's why she thanked God. But you wouldn't understand....

    But the bad must also come from him surely?

    @OP: Not sure how it is for cancer and the like but I find myself saying "thank god" for a lot of things, purely out of force of habit. Can't seem to stop.


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    #59
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    fitz0 wrote: »
    But the bad must also come from him surely?
    No, I don't believe so. I think all evil comes from us and the fallen angels (demons). We're not following God's plan for us. We're makings gods of ourselves
    and not realizing that all good comes from God. It is the action of the Holy Spirit in us which makes us want to do good and be selfless. What I mean is that regardless of whether we know it or not, the good we do is inspired by God. But the more we reject God, the more difficult it becomes for God's grace to operate within us.
    fitz0 wrote: »
    @OP: Not sure how it is for cancer and the like but I find myself saying "thank god" for a lot of things, purely out of force of habit. Can't seem to stop.
    That's the Spirit working in you! :)


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    #60
    MatthewVII
    Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭MatthewVII


    kelly1 wrote: »
    No, I don't believe so. I think all evil comes from us and the fallen angels (demons)

    Which God created and gives continued existence to despite his ability to remove all evil from the world in the blink of an eye. So in reality, it comes from him at the heart of things.
    . We're not following God's plan for us. We're makings gods of ourselves.

    I love making myself a god, if I manage to get the time since I'm so busy making gods of sex and money


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    #61
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Well it's not unusual for atheists to get worked up about a God they believe doesn't exist! LOL :pac:

    We Christians believe that all good comes from God so that's why she thanked God. But you wouldn't understand....

    We're getting worked up at the ridiculous situation of thanking the person who allowed you to get sick even though he could have prevented it when he allows you to get better. We're getting worked up at people, not a god that we don't believe is there

    Everything is supposed to come from god and that includes good and evil. You say bad comes from us and fallen angels but we came from god too, apparently. He has the power to prevent evil whenever he wants so you shouldn't be thanking him when he arbitrarily allows saddam hussein to survive an assassination attempt, you should hate him for all the times he didn't save an innocent child. No?

    As I said at the start of the thread, it's like thanking someone for taking their knife away from your throat


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