Institutional abuse was "endemic".. - MERGED

xxmarymoxx

Puddleduck wrote: »

The majority of the posters on here have felt some emotion towards what happened. I want to know, what are we going to do about it? Todays generation shapes tomorrow. I am honestly sick of the sit back and watch what happens attitude of people today. As soon as I can find out exactly who to contact I will be writing a letter. Protests achieve nothing since todays generation have no interest in standing up to be counted. I wont be one of those people.

No one should be exempt from the law. Regardless of colour, creed or money. Fianna Fail have stated that it would be 'very hard' to change the agreement that was made with the Church. I couldnt give a fiddlers if its harder than egyptian algebra! Those that abused should be named and shamed. If it never makes it to court then those alive should be put on the sex offenders register.

well said its a disgrace and im ashamed to be called irish to many people in this country have an o sure what can we do attitude this is have these sick fooker got away wit this for so long.
we should start a petiton on this and get it sent to brian cowen and our so called country leader we have as president.These people should be named and shamed no excuses:mad:

Chre59

The only thing politicians are worried about is votes. So if we got a petition together and enough people around the country signed it, then it might become an issue on which people would vote on. Then we might see some movement on this issue.

TequilaMockingBird

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Apparently over 85% of people in the Republic are still officially Catholic according to official statistics. I quite frankly find that figure to be unbelievable given the state of the church in Ireland over the past 20 years and the attitude of younger people in particular to the church.

I think it's very important to acknowledge that you are not a Catholic if you feel that way and not to allow yourself to be 'defaulted' into that category thru apathy, tendancy towards social normality and peer pressure.

If the government see that 85% figure then they are going to act accordingly when it comes assigning magniture of importance to them.

I do agree with you.

But, it can be pretty hard to find a school in Ireland that isn't Catholic. I had my daughter baptised. This was mainly for my Mothers benefit (and, I suppose, some in-built thing in me.) We went through the whole crap of losing a year of education for the First Holy Communion (a day both of us would rather forget tbh). In school, there is no come down from the moral high ground the church have always had here. They seem to think people still listen to them. In my experience, with school, it's just ignored once the "big money" ceremonies are over with.

I have issues in my life that, I think, can be traced back to the Nuns treatment of my Mum.

I'm hoping my daughter moves away from it more than I could. I'll never stop trying though.

b28

Carlow52 wrote: »

How Boards deals with this issue will be a defining event.

AH is not an appropriate forum.

I think it is appropriate!

This abuse inquiry has shocked me ultimately!

I will never support religion again!! in fact I hate it!

KittyeeTrix

anplaya wrote: »

has anyone on this thread been in schools that were named in the report?i have btw ,any1 else?

I personally wasn't in any of the places but my mum "lived" if you could call it that in Newtownforbes between the years of 1953-1970,
When she applied for her redress I sat her down to take her statement of abuse, honest to god it was harrowing to say the least!!!!!!!!!!!
We, her children always knew that she had been brought up in a convent but we didn't realise it was an industrial school
Honest to god they were absolute bastards what they did to her, she had been given up by her mum and left in a home in Dublin and was then fostered out to a woman in Dublin who had a rake of kids living with her.
Being in the '50s this woman whom my mum still speaks very fondly of almost 60 years later did not have much money.

My mum was taken by the court from this woman and removed to Newtownforbes at the age of 3. This foster mother appealed to the courts and the school to have my mother placed in a school in Dublin so that she could at least visit her as she could not afford to travel to Longford to see her.
It was effing heartbreaking for me to read the letters I saw from this woman pleading for my mam to be transferred to Dublin so that she could be close to her.
The school replied in their letters that my mum was quite happy in Longford even though they were beating the **** out of her and other types of abuse which I don't want to go in to, They said in their letters that it would be an upsetting for the child to be moved back to Dublin, cnuts, that's all they were!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I remember the night I read those letters driving out of Galway and on the radio the song by the beach boys "sloop john b" came on the radio, I had to pull the car over to the side of the road 'cos I was crying so much, the part where they sing "I wanna go home", why don't ya leave me alone, oh, I feel so broke up, I wanna go home"
Probably just over emotional at the time but it was effing heart wrenching and to this day still is:(
I'll never forget it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Unless you have had a parent or a close friend who,lived through the regime it is hard to understand the longterm ramifications of it....
I am a 35 year old mother of 4 myself now and it has had long lasting effects on my mother with regards to a number of areas in her life
mother-daughter relationship
her relationship with her grandchildren
ability to make friends
alcohol dependence
severe depression
unexplained suicide attempts which seemed to originate from nowhere

I love her to death but to be honest sometimes it is a struggle for me to understand her and how she sometimes carries on but then I remember that she is a product of her upbringing and for that reason I love her even more

KittyeeTrix

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

Apparently over 85% of people in the Republic are still officially Catholic according to official statistics. I quite frankly find that figure to be unbelievable given the state of the church in Ireland over the past 20 years and the attitude of younger people in particular to the church.

I think it's very important to acknowledge that you are not a Catholic if you feel that way and not to allow yourself to be 'defaulted' into that category thru apathy, tendancy towards social normality and peer pressure.

If the government see that 85% figure then they are going to act accordingly when it comes assigning magniture of importance to them.

Hi there Mr.Lizard, are you the same poster who had the "funny line" about industrial schools over in AH?

to qoute you

"Bring back industrial schools is what I say!

Too soon? "

and to reiterate what I replied to yoi in that thread- yes, too soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Way too effing soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

markopantelic

i really find it hard to believe that so many people in ireland are catholic, i suppose it takes slightly more effort to say 'no i am not catholic'

watna

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Hi there Mr.Lizard, are you the same poster who had the "funny line" about industrial schools over in AH

This is AH too. There has been strict warnings about this on this thread but not on others. I don't think it's appropriate to bring in quotes from other threads - irregardless of how distasteful you find them.

markopantelic wrote: »

i really find it hard to believe that so many people in ireland are catholic, i suppose it takes slightly more effort to say 'no i am not catholic'

I'm not a catholic but I find there is still a lot of ignorance around about religion so I don't really say it to people. And by that I don't mean I'm a lapsed Catholic - I mean I never was one. People just presume I am and I don't tell them otherwise. Maybe people who are lapsed Catholics don't want hassle either? It's easier to go with the flow.

KittyeeTrix

Do ya know what Markopanthelic, that;s the weirdest thing about it all at least in my mum's case, she is a religion mad....................
I like her do not blame the actual religion but I do llike her blame those who acted under the guise of being religious,
I think it's about time someone here in this thread made the point that there is a difference,

KittyeeTrix

watna wrote: »

This is AH too. There has been strict warnings about this on this thread but not on others. I don't think it's appropriate to bring in quotes from other threads - irregardless of how distasteful you find them.



.

Sorry for breaking thread/post protocol, should have brought my rant to ranting and raving, will do in the future

To Mr. lizard, I am so sorry if in any way I caused you hurt, I didn't mean to, again I am sorry. Was just trying to ask, pose you a question?

Anyways, apologies proffered


p.s.
meet you over in rant and raving for a good old square up ONLY JOKING:D

Nehaxak

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I do agree with you.

But, it can be pretty hard to find a school in Ireland that isn't Catholic.

You don't have to send your children to a non-Catholic school. Both my children go to a Catholic all Irish speaking school, neither of my children are baptised, neither of them are any religion and neither of them will be making their communion/confirmation/whatever. Teachers and principal are well aware and don't mind at all. I refuse, absolutely refuse to bring my children up in any religion. If they want a religion, they can make their own minds up when they turn 18, whether they choose to believe in God or otherwise is their own choice, regardless of them having no religion.

In regards the topic itself, myself like many others my age (mid 30s) got the tail end of the physical abuse in schools before it was phased out.
The only saving grace I have and happy time I ever had at that school was when I got the principal beaten to a pulp. I came in late one morning (as usual really, fúcking hated school) and my own teacher gave me a smack and I involuntarily raised my fist to throw a punch at him (I was only about 8 or 9), he grabbed me by my jumper and dragged me down to the principals office.
Waiting there for ages, two other lads where brought down from another class, one of them the son of a local IRA man, big man, big IRA man in the area. So I get called in to the principals office, wait for the usual shít of getting the side of the big ruler accross the back of my hands (sick bastard he was) when he stops and asks me if I tell him who'd been robbing money from the school shop he'd let me go without punishment.
Well what would you do, really...So I ratted out for the first and only time in my life, one of the lads who was outside. I lied, was a big lie and that lad outside was gonna get a right beating for it and he did, we could hear him screaming back in our class.
I waited...
waited...
Screams from one of the bitch teachers, the sound of a smack/punch to a face. I hear the principal shouting to get out....then, the smacks, oh the sound of them, smack smack smack, thud, pause....smack smack smack smack smack, bang bang bang, smack smack smack. By this stage teachers and kids are all out of the classes and standing around watching. The Father of the kid I ratted out by lieing that he was robbing, was beating the living shít out of the principal. Really like, never ever seen anything like it since. he kept picking him up of the ground and punching him in the face, picking him up again, smack smack smack.
I vividly remember the beating the principal got that day and all because of me, the dirty rotten bastard deserved ever punch in the face he got and I was so proud of myself for it. Was about 2 months before he came back to the school and he never, not once ever again hit another child in that school.

I remember my Father telling me one story about a Christian Brothers school in the Dun Laoghaire area he went too as a child. As they were really poor (Granny had 18 children, 15 lived) he had on a really old and worn pair of shoes, barely had a sole in them and his toes were poking through. One of the priests/teachers stood him up on a table one day in class and ridiculed him and his family for not having enough money to buy him a pair of shoes, then he beat my father with a cane until my Father passed out.
My father had to get carried home by some other parents, who told his Father (my Grandad) what happened (again!). He went down to the school the next morning like a raging bull, stormed into the classroom, grabbed the priest/teacher and beat him black and blue, left him in a heap on the ground.
When he looked up he seen a load of the kids in the class crying, realising he freightened the life out of them he tried to calm them down and apologise. One of the kids looked up at my Grandad and said "we're crying because we're happy, thank you for killing him for us" (he wasn't dead btw). The whole class ran over and hugged my Grandad. My Father said it was the only time he ever seen his Father with tears in his eyes. My Grandad dragged the priest out of the classroom by the head of hair, still unconcious, into the street and dropped him in the middle of the road, then walked off to a huge cheer and applause from the children and locals in the area.

How anyone, priest, techer or otherwise can beat or sexually abuse a child is, I don't know, words can't describe it, I just do not know how anyone could do such a thing, really cannot understand it, really can't, it's sick, twisted and pathetic.
I have no faith whatsoever in this country's authorities that anything substantive will ever be done to reconcile and bring those responsbile to justice, none whatsoever. Apart from the priests and teachers responsible for what went on, the state itself stood idly by and let them get away with it for so long, they knew damn well what was going on and they let it happen.
They are as guilty and as responsible for the abuse as much as those that carried out the abuse are.

I will forever hate, absolutely hate the Catholic church for what they did and what they let happen to the children of this country. :mad::mad::mad:

Mr.Lizard

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Hi there Mr.Lizard, are you the same poster who had the "funny line" about industrial schools over in AH?

to qoute you

"Bring back industrial schools is what I say!

Too soon? "

and to reiterate what I replied to yoi in that thread- yes, too soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Way too effing soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nah, that was another Mr.Lizard.

carolmon

I'd like to see the criminals brought to justice.

Child abuse/ rape and assault are criminal acts.

Why are these people protected?

If they were lay people committing these acts there would be no such deal.

I'm really angry that our government is standing over this deal with full knowledge of the facts now outlined in the Ryan report.

Fianna Fail is trying to make membership of a criminal gang illegal.
Why aren't they doing anything about an organisation that facilitated such abuse?

I really want to see a protest that aims to have these abusers prosecuted.
If anybody knows of any groups organising a petition/ march please let me know so I can be part of it.

Joycey

Did anyone just see the guy from Clonmel on Questions and Answers? Just happened to be on there in the background...

One of the most powerful speeches ive ever heard anyone make. Entire studio silent apart from your man for about 3 minutes...

Irjudge1

Joycey wrote: »

Did anyone just see the guy from Clonmel on Questions and Answers? Just happened to be on there in the background...

One of the most powerful speeches ive ever heard anyone make. Entire studio silent apart from your man for about 3 minutes...

Yeah. I haven't seen anything like that on Q&A before.

markopantelic

he ruined it with the bit about being a fianna fail man.

deadhead13

Powerful stuff alright.

Stephen

This needs to be on youtube and then all over the internet ASAP. Shame these fúckers into admitting guilt and paying full compensation.

carolmon

it was amazing, the panel were left speechless, and I think the fact that he was a Fianna Fail man was perfect, it's really their worst nightmare facing them, Noel Dempsey looked stunned.

Bring the criminals to justice now

Min

Who are the criminals?

Some only blame the abusers, they obviously top the list, the list includes:

Certain members whether dead or alive of certain religious orders.
The department of Education that had control over these institutions and that knew of physical abuse from as early as the 1940's.
The judiciary which sent children as young as 5 years old for crimes such as stealing a bit of bread to these institutions.
The gardai where it looked good to be proactive and ambitious when it came to dealing with children.

It is a right mess by both state and the religious orders.

Well done to Father McCabe who did a detailed report on one of these institutions which reported the abuse and which led to the Kennedy commission and the closing down of these hellhole institutions.

Red Alert

Dudess wrote: »

I don't understand the outrage over people following orders - fear makes people do terrible things they'd rather not do.

I actually agree with Dudess here - it's very easy to silence someone with fear.

El Siglo

Dudess wrote: »

I don't understand the outrage over people following orders - fear makes people do terrible things they'd rather not do.

Fear my arse, fear is what a young boy or young girl had to (and still do) contend with when they were being raped, molested, buggered and beaten to a pulp, that was instilled fear. These bastard priests and nuns were not stricken by fear but by malice and silence, by maintaining the status quo, if they had any fear then it must have been whether they would be sent off to a post where they couldn't rape, molest, bugger and beat children, fear for them was never in the consequences of their actions, fear for them was what they instilled in children. Of course you don't understand the outrage of people to this, you don't understand how paedophiles think, they're not human they're f*cking creatures that have such skewed f*cked up morals and thoughts equivocal to that of the Khymer Rouge and the Nazis, you can't actually treat them like normal people, they're not. Fear didn't cause these c*nts to keep silent about what their 'brothers of the cloth' were doing, it was a matter of not rocking the boat and subjugation and this is supported by the lack of actions taken by the state at the time reports were first made. Personally, I think church property should be seized, as we the tax payer are financing these c*nts, we're footing the bill for maintaining the freedoms of paedophiles, at the same time some victims are still considered criminals by the state, it sickens me so it does. Q&A was really good tonight and that chap from Clonmel was an excellent speaker.

friendface

That speech by Michael O'Brien was the most powerful thing I have seen on RTE in a while. I also listened to his interview yesterday on Newstalk and it was really shocking stuff. But seeing him on Q&A tonight, I was nearly brought to tears with the speech he gave. I was just a bit disappointed when they didn't really get a reaction from the panel or the minister afterwards and moved on to another question instead.

TI21

I just watched questions and answers on Rte player ,the speech by that man was heartbreaking to watch I was in tears. The courage and strength it took to go on that programme and speak his mind was outstanding.
The sheer ignorance of the panel by acting like he hadn't even made a speech except by 1 or two barely clapping was downright rude. To not even address his comments was a disgrace. The minister was made look like a mere puppet for his party clearly briefed to the last about toeing the party line all the way and not budging.I cannot believe they sat through a speech like that and were not able to acknowledge it.

Puddleduck

Can someone link to the man that gave the speech on questions and answers?

I wrote to Mr. Ahern the Minister for Justice and recieved no reply, not so much as an automated message. Maybe if enough people write to him something will be done.

Red Alert

TI21 wrote: »

I just watched questions and answers on Rte player ,the speech by that man was heartbreaking to watch I was in tears. The courage and strength it took to go on that programme and speak his mind was outstanding.
The sheer ignorance of the panel by acting like he hadn't even made a speech except by 1 or two barely clapping was downright rude. To not even address his comments was a disgrace. The minister was made look like a mere puppet for his party clearly briefed to the last about toeing the party line all the way and not budging.I cannot believe they sat through a speech like that and were not able to acknowledge it.

I just noticed that when I played it back now - even when people do make a 'speech' as opposed to a question usually Bowman will address it to the panel. The very least they could have done would have been to acknowledge what he'd said. For something that must have been heartbreaking for him he delivered the whole thing, start to finish perfectly. It's a bit much also that Noel Whelan, Leo Varadkar and Noel Dempsey sat there stony faced after he spoke.


http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1048655

the catholic church is well broken now.. in my mind it's a paedofile ring based in ireland instead of thailand.

was home at the weekend there and told my mum that when i have kids, not one of them will be let near religion or be baptised. she actually agreed having read the reports. i asked her to name one thing religion has done for anyone and she couldn't think of anything. organised religion is a corrupted piece of ****e and should be got rid off..

philologos

I don't get the reason why people are tarring all religion with the same brush because of an incident in the Roman Catholic Church. It seems to be throwing out the car with the drunk driver.

panda100

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't get the reason why people are tarring all religion with the same brush because of an incident in the Roman Catholic Church. It seems to be throwing out the car with the drunk driver.

Cos at the end of the day arent all religions pretty much the same? Male dominated instiutions that pushes moral guidance on to people when they have absolutely no idea If what they say is true or not.

philologos

panda100 wrote: »

Cos at the end of the day arent all religions pretty much the same?

No, they really aren't. It's patently ignorant for one to call all religions bad based on the actions of a minority of one (Catholicism).

panda100 wrote: »

Male dominated instiutions that pushes moral guidance on to people when they have absolutely no idea If what they say is true or not.

Actually, you'll notice that in early Christianity there was male and female involvement in the spreading of the Gospel in Europe.

As for pushing moral guidance on people when they have no clue if it is true or not? It's rather simple, if you want to hold your pastor / priest / minister accountable, read the Bible for yourself and know what it says for yourself instead of making a view based on what happens in a church.

As for "having no clue if they are true or false", people have been convicted of God's witness by living out their lives. It's curious though, how you aren't reprimanding people for referring to religion as mere "fairy tales" because to be quite frank the same argument you make could be applied to them too.