N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

kub

Gunner3629 wrote: »

Who's the say that after re-tendering the cost will be any lower than what Sisk are quoting.

Even thought Children's hospital is a much bigger cost to the taxpayer, and ultimately spiralled out of all control, why was this action never taken there?

Same can be said about The Events Centre.


Has BAM got a better way with contracts than other construction companies ?

marno21

prunudo wrote: »

A lot of threads on here have start dates that long ago unfortunately, depressing state of affairs really.

Case in point the N28 thread, started in the first week of 2005

marno21

Cork Chamber have released a fairly strong press release about this issue

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Cork-business-losing-faith-in-government-following-latest-Dunkettle-delays-74b699f1-4331-4366-b486-201c236dd37e-ds

Pete_Cavan

Gunner3629 wrote: »

Who's the say that after re-tendering the cost will be any lower than what Sisk are quoting.

Even thought Children's hospital is a much bigger cost to the taxpayer, and ultimately spiralled out of all control, why was this action never taken there?

The engineers on TII's side say the cost should be lower than what Sisk are quoting. Tendering amongst multiple contractors will almost certainly result in lower bids than negotiating with only one.

The Children's Hospital was on site before costs spiralled so the option to retender wasn't there.

marno21

According to TII's Sean O'Neill, in the next 12 months they plan to complete utility diversions and complete the link between the N8 and the M8.

https://soundcloud.com/opinionline96/2019-08-15-online-jewellery-gone-missing-ryanair-strike-student-accommodation-more

1:35 in.

Gunner3629

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The engineers on TII's side say the cost should be lower than what Sisk are quoting. Tendering amongst multiple contractors will almost certainly result in lower bids than negotiating with only one.

The Children's Hospital was on site before costs spiralled so the option to retender wasn't there.

The cost of the project may - possibly - be lower but the negative economic effect of further delays will also have a cost.

Lackadaisical

Gunner3629 wrote: »

The cost of the project may - possibly - be lower but the negative economic effect of further delays will also have a cost.

The issue is one cost is easily measurable and the other is largely opportunity cost, so the tendency will be to go for the hard numbers. It doesn't mean it makes any economic sense, but that's what always happens when management accountancy is driving it.

Cork Trucker

More of the same from the Irish Examiner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/100m-dunkettle-interchange-upgrade-delayed-by-a-year-944273.html

steeler j

how much more was the overrun going to be

marno21

Update from Cork County Council.

Project tender to be awarded in 2020; partial opening in 2022 with full completion in 2023.

Works to be completed between now and tender award.

1. Construction of a freeflow link between the N8 outbound and the M8 northbound (shown in image below in red)
2. Construction of the shared use cycle/pedestrian route adjacent to the Cork – Dublin road link. This will be a segregated route separated from the road link by noise/environmental barriers, as well as vehicle restraint barriers (shown in image below in green)
3. Works to the major utilities crossing the Dunkettle site. These include gas, electricity, fibre optic telecoms and trunk watermains serving Cork City and Little Island. Diversion and protection works to these vital services within a corridor developed during the Stage 1 design process will significantly de-risk the main construction works and reduce the construction programme.

Chris_5339762

Its all very frustrating, but its something at least. That N8 - M8 link may take a little bit of the pressure off in the evenings, as there will be less red time and less backing up on the roundabout.

Unless Sisk were all out of proportion on the amount they wanted, I think TII should have accepted things. Say it was €50 million more than the government intended. Its not unreasonable to assume more than €50 million in economic loss will be caused by a years delay in this starting.

Thats Dunkettle stalled for a year and the M28 stalled in the courts. Not looking great really.

Cork Trucker

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Its all very frustrating, but its something at least. That N8 - M8 link may take a little bit of the pressure off in the evenings, as there will be less red time and less backing up on the roundabout.

Unless Sisk were all out of proportion on the amount they wanted, I think TII should have accepted things. Say it was €50 million more than the government intended. Its not unreasonable to assume more than €50 million in economic loss will be caused by a years delay in this starting.

Thats Dunkettle stalled for a year and the M28 stalled in the courts. Not looking great really.

And the M20 + NRR a long term dream

highwaymaniac

marno21 wrote: »

Update from Cork County Council.

Project tender to be awarded in 2020; partial opening in 2022 with full completion in 2023.

Works to be completed between now and tender award.

1. Construction of a freeflow link between the N8 outbound and the M8 northbound (shown in image below in red)
2. Construction of the shared use cycle/pedestrian route adjacent to the Cork – Dublin road link. This will be a segregated route separated from the road link by noise/environmental barriers, as well as vehicle restraint barriers (shown in image below in green)
3. Works to the major utilities crossing the Dunkettle site. These include gas, electricity, fibre optic telecoms and trunk watermains serving Cork City and Little Island. Diversion and protection works to these vital services within a corridor developed during the Stage 1 design process will significantly de-risk the main construction works and reduce the construction programme.

Looks to have been hastily prepared! The design shown there for the N8toM8 slip doesn't tie into the existing northbound M8, it is very tight for space looks like it will have to a temporary measure with a shortened merge.

Will this help the operation of the roundabout? Not sure that it will - unless they give longer intervals between green lights for N8 to Tunnel movement because more queuing space available? Or am I missing something here?

Pete_Cavan

highwaymaniac wrote: »

Looks to have been hastily prepared! The design shown there for the N8toM8 slip doesn't tie into the existing northbound M8, it is very tight for space looks like it will have to a temporary measure with a shortened merge.

Will this help the operation of the roundabout? Not sure that it will - unless they give longer intervals between green lights for N8 to Tunnel movement because more queuing space available? Or am I missing something here?

Surely the slip is the same as what Sisk would have been building, i.e. what they have planning approval for?

hans aus dtschl

I believe it is the same slip that was originally planned.

Also, the green above is a Cork Co Co job, they have their funding for it, they have their (bad) design approved and they're hoping to progress it and the Dunkettle Roundabout upgrade ASAP.

I don't think the piece in red above will make much of a difference to traffic whatsoever other than to be able to say they're doing *something*. The queuing from the Dunkettle side is for the tunnel. The furthest left lane doesn't back up. Traffic for Little Island don't use this movement. It shouldn't have any real impact.

Chris_5339762

highwaymaniac wrote: »

Looks to have been hastily prepared! The design shown there for the N8toM8 slip doesn't tie into the existing northbound M8, it is very tight for space looks like it will have to a temporary measure with a shortened merge.

Will this help the operation of the roundabout? Not sure that it will - unless they give longer intervals between green lights for N8 to Tunnel movement because more queuing space available? Or am I missing something here?

It will help a tad, as traffic going from Cork - Dublin will be able to take the slip and the current traffic lights that that movement would have to use will now only have to deal with Cork - N40(W) movements and a few to Little Island. It'll mean less queueing on the roundabout in the evenings and possibly slightly better flow. It won't be groundbreaking, but every little will help.

highwaymaniac

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

It will help a tad, as traffic going from Cork - Dublin will be able to take the slip and the current traffic lights that that movement would have to use will now only have to deal with Cork - N40(W) movements and a few to Little Island. It'll mean less queueing on the roundabout in the evenings and possibly slightly better flow. It won't be groundbreaking, but every little will help.

Nothing to get too excited about so!

marno21

Sisk "disappointed" at TII's move to delay roads project

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/sisk-disappointed-at-tiis-move-to-delay-roads-project-38411765.html

Cork Trucker

The article is behind a paywall, but the headline is enough, a delay of up to 10 years?

Mrs Dempsey

Investing credibility in "Indo" headlines is a risky pursuit

blindsider

10 yrs is just a throwaway comment for a headline. No further info is provided. I could equally, and with the same gravitas, say that the project will be completed by Wednesday lunch-time!

Joey Joe-Joe Jr

blindsider wrote: »

The project will be completed by Wednesday lunch-time!

Awesome news, I’m heading to Cork Thursday morning.
Seems like the engineers have really pulled the finger out. If this was in China or the US this would have been finished by Tuesday evening/Wednesday morning. And the speed limit during construction would have been 250 miles an hour.

spacetweek

Cork County Council confirmed that it's delayed by 1 year. Top-notch reporting by the Indo as usual.

Chris_5339762

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

It will help a tad, as traffic going from Cork - Dublin will be able to take the slip and the current traffic lights that that movement would have to use will now only have to deal with Cork - N40(W) movements and a few to Little Island. It'll mean less queueing on the roundabout in the evenings and possibly slightly better flow. It won't be groundbreaking, but every little will help.

Actually thinking about it, if I were traveling N25(W) to M8(N) anywhere close to rush hour, I would now go down to the Dunkettle Roundabout at Glanmire, go right around it, and use the new slip road.


This could actually backfire quite badly, as a lot of people doing that motion at rush hour.... which there will be from little island.... will get priority at the roundabout and will clog up the N8 Tivoli Dual Carriageway outbound approaching the Dunkettle Roundabout far worse than it is at the moment. And you'd want to be crazy to tackle the Dunkettle interchange when you can do the same movement via the Dunkettle roundabout.


I fear this could be very bad, actually.

hans aus dtschl

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Actually thinking about it, if I were traveling N25(W) to M8(N) anywhere close to rush hour, I would now go down to the Dunkettle Roundabout at Glanmire, go right around it, and use the new slip road.


This could actually backfire quite badly, as a lot of people doing that motion at rush hour.... which there will be from little island.... will get priority at the roundabout and will clog up the N8 Tivoli Dual Carriageway outbound approaching the Dunkettle Roundabout far worse than it is at the moment. And you'd want to be crazy to tackle the Dunkettle interchange when you can do the same movement via the Dunkettle roundabout.


I fear this could be very bad, actually.

Good observation. But Dunkettle roundabout will be signalised by the Co Co with the same pot of money that the bike/walk route is getting. So that won't be free-flow any more, which might negate the issue. I notice that they're being very quiet about this signalisation. It's not a very nice design and I think they know that.

The people intending to go to the northern parts of Glanmire around Sallybrook etc will be newly enthusiastic about using the M8 rather than R639. But that's probably a good thing.

grogi

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Actually thinking about it, if I were traveling N25(W) to M8(N) anywhere close to rush hour, I would now go down to the Dunkettle Roundabout at Glanmire, go right around it, and use the new slip road.


This could actually backfire quite badly, as a lot of people doing that motion at rush hour.... which there will be from little island.... will get priority at the roundabout and will clog up the N8 Tivoli Dual Carriageway outbound approaching the Dunkettle Roundabout far worse than it is at the moment. And you'd want to be crazy to tackle the Dunkettle interchange when you can do the same movement via the Dunkettle roundabout.


I fear this could be very bad, actually.

There is an easy fix for that really... A simple bridge to allow reverse of traffic... They are commonly used in Italy, where they have limited space for interchanges due to mountainous terrain.

Exp. here - the interchange is only 'half-done' while the other directions are done by reversing at the bridge to the south of the IC.

hans aus dtschl

grogi wrote: »

There is an easy fix for that really... A simple bridge to allow reverse of traffic... They are commonly used in Italy, where they have limited space for interchanges due to mountainous terrain.

Exp. here - the interchange is only 'half-done' while the other directions are done by reversing at the bridge to the south of the IC.

With the train and the water I don't think the space is there.
Plus, as I say, signalising the Dunkettle roundabout will have an impact.

kub

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Good observation. But Dunkettle roundabout will be signalised by the Co Co with the same pot of money that the bike/walk route is getting. So that won't be free-flow any more, which might negate the issue. I notice that they're being very quiet about this signalisation. It's not a very nice design and I think they know that.

The people intending to go to the northern parts of Glanmire around Sallybrook etc will be newly enthusiastic about using the M8 rather than R639. But that's probably a good thing.

Not meaning to sound pedantic, but the signaling of that roundabout will be on the list now for the City Council considering their colleagues in the County never got around to it before the boundary extension.

Chris_5339762

Is that actually going ahead though? I don't think its been doing as the package of immediate Dunkettle works, and is a totally disconnected thing which is very much will-it-wont-it.

hans aus dtschl

kub wrote: »

Not meaning to sound pedantic, but the signaling of that roundabout will be on the list now for the City Council considering their colleagues in the County never got around to it before the boundary extension.

Good point: that would make sense.
I haven't seen anything about it though.