Can Astronomy Ireland really be considered an 'Astronomy club' anymore?

Seanie M

Got that e-mail TWICE when I tried to be unsubscribed. Damn annoying.

Seanie.

Dave Lillis

Hi,
I cant believe Moore is still up to his old tricks!!
I was put in his damned email list a few years ago and it took 2 emails (I was well cheesed off writing the second one so it was very blatent) to get off it.

I'm reading this thread and its like 5-6 years ago all over again, its very funny, Moore sucks in people because lets be honest he has a publicity machine thing going with RTE (if you're not in/near Dublin then RTE dont want to know), those members/suckers/victims whatever... then get wise to the guy and then discover the other clubs across the country and then leave Moore and his money making machine behind and join a real club.

Charging people for a look through a scope is terrible!, and this craic with "celestron only" is soo obviously self serving, it just says it all.

Frank Ryan Jr

Linguo wrote: »

I got given out to big time by both the 'CEO' and 'Chairman' when I was there for unsubscribing people from the list when they asked. I was meant to tell him first and then he would send a special email trying to get you to re-consider....

Oh dear,
That's just business I suppose.
Hmmm,
this gives me an Idea.........

redman

I just my first email from them in years even though I am not a "member" in about 4 years.

Have to see if my fresh unsubscribes work ...no acknowledgement. This is what I received out of the blue:

Dear Member of Astronomy Ireland,

We are flying in Hanny van Arkel - a world-famous amateur astronomer - from the Netherlands to give a talk for you in Dublin next Monday, 15 June.

You will remember reading about Hanny, a schoolteacher, in your October magazine last year (page 10). She found a new object a million million million miles across. A completely new kind of object about the size of a galaxy. This catapulted her to international fame and she has been the toast of media attention and spoken at astronomy conventions worldwide.

As we expand Astronomy Ireland we want to run more major Public Lectures like this, but is this what you want?

Book tickets HERE.

Will you come to the lecture next Monday?

Ostrom

dmcdona wrote: »

The whole AI "subject" has been discussed extensively over the years. The sentiments expressed here are held by many people. But its a free country and AI/A&S Ltd are entitled to do whatever they want within the law.

Equally though, the average punter is also equally entitled to do whatever they want - subscribe, buy from the shop etc - or not.

There are alternatives for the average punter - irishastronomy.org hosts all the IFAS affiliated clubs across Ireland (including the North). It also has a very active board area (free subscription) covering all aspects of astronomy, including the purchase of equipment.

Dave

What are the alternatives for buying in Ireland?

Delphi91

efla wrote: »

What are the alternatives for buying in Ireland?

Uh, don't buy in Ireland?

I've just bought a telescope (well, ordered in last December, but it's gonna be delivered in the next day or so) and I saved loads by buying in the UK (Nor'n Ireland actually). I was lucky enough to be able to order when the exchange rate was almost 1:1 so that helped enormously. But I have to say that the help, advice and continuous contact that I received over the past 6 months was well worth it and I'd buy from the same supplier again.

I looked at AI as a supplier, but I didn't like the fact that I was restricted to one specific brand only - I looked at a number of places online, all of whom had a number of different brands and was able to compare them very favourably for price, delivery, special offers, etc.

Merch

Astronomy Ireland
Hmm been a few years, here was me thinking I was the only person that had come across them in a bad way,
I must look into other clubs, is there a web page that has a list of links for clubs in dublin??

murphyme

Merch wrote: »

Astronomy Ireland
Hmm been a few years, here was me thinking I was the only person that had come across them in a bad way,
I must look into other clubs, is there a web page that has a list of links for clubs in dublin??

Try here:

http://www.irishastronomy.org/cms/about/ifas-maps?task=viewmap&mapId=1

Michael.

Merch

thanks

dmcdona

efla wrote: »

What are the alternatives for buying in Ireland?

You can buy from North Down Telescopes in Northern Ireland. Conns Cameras in Dublin were selling Celestron 'scopes recently (but I'm not sure if they still are).

The UK has a wide variety of distributors as do other European countries (Netherlands, France, Spain, Austria etc)

You can also buy from the USA.

Equally, there are some very good astronomy websites with a second-hand section - Astromart is probably the biggest.

Hope that helps...

Thargor

I was looking for a Celestron 102 refractor recently and a rake of UK suppliers turned me down when I asked for a quote and pointed me to Astronomy Ireland as the Irish supplier I had to use, then I saw the exact scope I wanted in the window of a camera shop in Galway, turns out they were some kind of AI middlemen and they'd added on their own €100 tax to AI's already ridiculous €500 asking price. €600 for a scope I eventually found for sale on IFAS secondhand for €250 with a load of free accesories like a 12V powerpack and a Celestron Omni 2X barlow and an eyepice case. I think if you see any Celestrons for sale anywhere like that AI will still have a hand in it.

It'll be the secondhand market again for me the next time I upgrade aswell, no point paying full price when nobody looks after their kit better than astronomers and usually the only reason they're selling is because they're upgrading themselves.

100% recycled

Thargor wrote: »

I was looking for a Celestron 102 refractor recently and a rake of UK suppliers turned me down when I asked for a quote and pointed me to Astronomy Ireland as the Irish supplier I had to use, then I saw the exact scope I wanted in the window of a camera shop in Galway, turns out they were some kind of AI middlemen and they'd added on their own €100 tax to AI's already ridiculous €500 asking price. €600 for a scope I eventually found for sale on IFAS secondhand for €250 with a load of free accesories like a 12V powerpack and a Celestron Omni 2X barlow and an eyepice case. I think if you see any Celestrons for sale anywhere like that AI will still have a hand in it.

It'll be the secondhand market again for me the next time I upgrade aswell, no point paying full price when nobody looks after their kit better than astronomers and usually the only reason they're selling is because they're upgrading themselves.

I wanted to get the exact same scope for my younger brothers birthday. Difference is, one of the companies in the UK actually agreed to ship over to me (it was a much better price than AI were offering with lots of extras). I was all ready to do the deal but they pulled out at the last minute saying AI had made a complaint against them to the main distributor (apparently they had told quite a few Irish people they could ship here) and if they sent to me they could be shut down!

How can AI have such a strangle hold on the Irish market. There is no fair market, it's a monopoly!! If they were competitive I wouldn't mind but their prices are ridiculously expensive. Ferry to the UK when I plan to buy next I think :pac:

Seanie M

100% recycled wrote: »

How can AI have such a strangle hold on the Irish market.

This has always interested me and my astro buddies. I can only think that he plays the "only Irish distributor" card aggressively to make you (and as I have just read here, the other English distributor) believe A&S Ltd is the ONLY Irish source for Celestron. If that's the case, where do chemist shops and Argos get them from, because it certainly is not through A&S Ltd.

Besides, whilst Celestron is a good brand, there are better brands out there too. Shop around is the common message. I got a Skywatcher 80ED refractor for €265 second hand (OTA-only). That's about close to a Celestron priced new of similar spec, but is better quality. Keep an eye out for bargains likes that.

Seanie.
(NOT attempting to bad-mouth Celestron, merely pointing out the benefits of waiting that little longer for a great bargain to come your way)

Linguo

Yeah! He told all the staff that as well, Celestron were aggressively trying to get him to get other dealers secured around the country....he got a few but apart from that he said no one else in republic was allowed deal with Celestron

Slow Motion

Linguo wrote: »

Yeah! He told all the staff that as well, Celestron were aggressively trying to get him to get other dealers secured around the country....he got a few but apart from that he said no one else in republic was allowed deal with Celestron

Is that not illegal? False advertising at least?

Linguo

I dont think so I must be saying it wrong, as far as we knew he was the only person allowed sell Celestron in the republic at all but was allowed distribute to other dealers through him! Think thats it

squonk

Maybe it's worth a lot of us writing to Celestron to complain that his dealership isn't up to scratch in our eyes? I've never liked A&S's pricing and bought my scope in the UK because A&S simply weren't a viable alternative. Before I go further I don't own a Celestron, I own a Meade instead but the point is that compared to going the A&S route, you can get your hands on Meade's realtively inexpensively. My introduction to the brand was through Aldi's yearly scope offer. A&S's pricing was always a barrier to my entering the market for a scope and I didn't know enough about the subject to shop abroad. Now, because I got a nice Meade scope for €600 one day, I'm a Meade customer. Celestron have lost my custom and, given the lifetime of scopes I won't be in the market again for a long, long time. I only recently upgraded to an LX-90.

Given the previous comments on this form, perhaps it's time we did something instead of keeping this a closed discussion without any action?

I'm not sure if Celestron would be very receptive but perhaps in the long run it might lead to greater competition here in the Irish market?

Seanie M

squonk wrote: »

Given the previous comments on this form, perhaps it's time we did something instead of keeping this a closed discussion without any action?

I'm not sure if Celestron would be very receptive but perhaps in the long run it might lead to greater competition here in the Irish market?

Just chucking in my two cents worth here, but this thread is NOT against Celestron. They are just caught up in something that is a side issue to what we were really talking about here. We don't want defamatory lawsuits here...



Seanie.

Slow Motion

Maybe someone should email them a link to this thread! Mods if this suggestion is inappropriate please feel free to delete it, and I suggest no one act upon it until a mod comments!

squonk

Just to clarify, I have no antipathy towards Celestron. By all accounts I've heard they make fine scopes and equipment. I'd recommend their equipment to anyone. I did do enough independent research when buying my LX-90 to know it was the one I wanted.

The propblem is purely A&S and their dealsership. Many people appear to be quite unhappy and the thrust of my post was actually to act as a benefit to Celestron by getting across to them what was going on on the ground.

I want to see more people out there with scopes and the way to do that is to get people buying scopes at value for money prices, and I'd actually love some hands on experience with a Celestron. Everybody wins by being able to buy a scope at a decent price and I believe companies, such as Celestron would sell more.

Linguo

Yeah Celestron have great scopes, we have the 8se and it's the business!

Slow Motion

squonk wrote: »

Just to clarify, I have no antipathy towards Celestron. By all accounts I've heard they make fine scopes and equipment. I'd recommend their equipment to anyone. I did do enough independent research when buying my LX-90 to know it was the one I wanted.

The propblem is purely A&S and their dealsership. Many people appear to be quite unhappy and the thrust of my post was actually to act as a benefit to Celestron by getting across to them what was going on on the ground.

I want to see more people out there with scopes and the way to do that is to get people buying scopes at value for money prices, and I'd actually love some hands on experience with a Celestron. Everybody wins by being able to buy a scope at a decent price and I believe companies, such as Celestron would sell more.

I agree, they seem to be getting tarred by association

100% recycled

squonk wrote: »

Just to clarify, I have no antipathy towards Celestron....
The propblem is purely A&S and their dealsership.

Seanie M wrote: »

Just chucking in my two cents worth here, but this thread is NOT against Celestron. They are just caught up in something that is a side issue to what we were really talking about here. We don't want defamatory lawsuits here...



Seanie.

Slow Motion wrote: »

I agree, they seem to be getting tarred by association

Agree with the above. I actually really rate Celestron as a brand. I have quite a bit of Celestron kit mixed into my own set up. My major problem is the fact that Astronomy Ireland and A&S seem to have no division.

From my understanding;

Astronomy Ireland is an astronomy club.

Astronomy & Space is Mr Moores private business.

Now I have absolutely no problem with the man having a shop and earning a living, fair play to him. But what does that have to do with the Astronomy Ireland club... supposedly nothing, except that Moore is also AI's "Chairman".

Here's where things get messy.

A&S LTD sell their telescopes on the Astronomy Ireland CLUB webpage but rather worryingly they are calling themselves "Astronomy Ireland Telescopes". Here is a quote from the site;

Quality Telescopes - Great Value

If you want to buy a telescope in Ireland there's only one place to go, Astronomy Ireland.

See there are two problems with that statement,

1 - They are FAR from great value!!!
2 - They are A&S Scopes not AI Scopes.


So Astronomy Ireland are a CLUB, yet they;

-Allow a private business to advertise on their site using their branding.
-Only allow Celestron scopes at their events.
-Lie about membership numbers.
-Do not have an elected committee.
-Charge a fee to look through scopes at events.

Reality of the situation in my opinion is the Mr Moore uses the Astronomy Ireland "Club" to advertise his telescopes and make himself a profit. I have yet to see an AI Club event that has not been riddled with sales pitches and hype for his shop and products, it's actually quite embarrassing! Apparently if your scope was not purchased from AI/A&S it is not worth pointing at the sky.

Please just be honest with the public. It will do your public image / sales the world of good.

I also despise the way Moore brands himself as "Irelands Best Known Astronomer" :mad:

Just because you whore yourself around the Irish media, it does not make you an astronomer. You sir, are a businessman. Leave the best known Astronomer tag to people like Dave McDonald and Dave Grennan, you know, two guys who discovered asteroids and are actually going a long way to encourage more people to get involved in the hobby, not just make a few quick bucks from it.

/drunken rant at AI/A&S/Moore Ltd.

Drunken Tuesday night posting ftw :cool:

Seanie M

Well said 100% recycled.

Seanie.

mukki

well done 100% recycled
very clear and informative, everyone interested in astronomy should read your post

Dave Lillis

What a post!, I couldnt have said it better, people have nothing against Celestron. I own several scopes, one of them is a nice 4" celestron refractor.

He actually used to sell other brands in the past. Back in the late 1990s, I got a quote of £10500 for a 12" LX200 :eek:, I almost dropped the phone in shock, I gave him a chance to explain the price and then he went off trying to sell me some Dob. I knew the price in London/Europe and the US for the scope, I did my research before I rang him. I ended up getting the same scope a few weeks later in telescope house for less then half the price. So you see the price issue isnt just with celestron equipment.
I have no problem with someone making a profit, but been ripped off?.
Shop around, dont jump on the first scope you find, consider getting it secondhand on astromart, cloudynights, you'll save a fortune.

I've heard so many disaster stories over the years, I wouldnt buy a lens cap off this guy.

Ostrom

As an outsider I'm finding this very confusing...

I'm in the market for a scope at the moment, and I cant seem to see an alternative to buy in Ireland other than sourcing online.

I'm quite into photography, and I assume like yourselves (as with us) you guys build up online contacts - you know who the good suppliers are online, where to get parts etc... I'm finding it tough to get my head around as I'm completely new to astronomy.

As a contribution to the thread - It appears to me as if AI are the only option for buying, and to me, they presented more as a private enterprise than a typical enthusiast network (club, association, society...). I was under the impression (until I read this thread) that they were only in retail.

Linguo

North Down Telescopes are meant to be good, it'll mean a bit of a trip up North but it could be well worth it! Other people buy from abroad and pay to have it shipped over, shipping costs a lot but it can actually work out cheaper!

Dr Pepper

AndyMcCrea - North Down Telescopes
http://www.northdowntelescopes.co.uk/

He's a very decent chap and I think he delivers around Ireland (although he may have been threatened/chased out of the Irish market by now). I got a quote from him a few years ago for a Celestron C11 which was several hundred less than the A&S price. A&S said they'd match his price so I bought from them because I was impatient and naive - One of my biggest regrets!! A&S were initially trying to rip me off and NDT just gave me a fair and reasonable price straight off - Still kicking myself that I didn't give Andy the business.

Finally, I'd just like to add my voice to the many here complaining about the corrupt dictatorship that is AI!

Edit/ Fixed NDT URL!

100% recycled

I see the Dublin Lyric Players are putting on a play soon as part of IYA 2009, "The Life of Galileo".

I was really interested at first but then I spotted something in the bottom left of the webpage...

It will be "Presented in Association with Astronomy Ireland"

I wonder will AI insist they use a Celestron scope lol

"Mr Moore are you sure Galileo used a Celestron CPC 1100??" :P